K3 RTTY issues with N1MM+


Ronald PA3EWP
 

Hello,

 

During the RTTY contest last weekend we noticed a problem that our transmitted text was abrupted.

A lot of times our call was transmitted as PI4C or PI4CO instead of PI4COM.

 

We used the latest version of N1MM+, MMTTY, Microkeyer MK2 and a Elecraft K3.

N1MM was configured as SO2V.

 

If I looked at the digital interface window the text was transmitted, at the end the software disabled the PTT of the radio.

But the radio was still busy transmitting the text, the FSK led was still flashing, but the software disabled the PTT.

I try to find what was happening or was changed, but I couldn’t find any solution for it.

 

So we changed it to AFSK and all worked fine again.

If I started MMTTY without N1MM it worked fine.

 

I checked it at after the contest and I come to the following conclusion:

The same computer setup with another K3 radio, other Microkeyer interface => same results.

Same computer setup with TS990, no problem

Other computer setup with the same K3, same problem.

 

I asked a friend to test his K3 and he has the same issue.

 

I hope someone has a solution for it, I am sure it must be something simple, but I can’t find it.

 

 

 

Ronald

PA3EWP

 

Contestgroup Oude Maas

30th anniversary callsign: PI30COM

http://www.pi4com.nl

 

 

 


Jeff Wilson <jjw5257@...>
 

Hi Ron
I use K3 (S/n 1900 factory updated) with a home brew ACC cable to a USB to RS232 adapter into Win10 pro 2004 x64 updated computer running latest N1MM+ for FSK RTTY during contest sans problem.  Latest EXTFSK64 and MMTTY also installed.  So no N1MM issues with truncated FSK sending here.


Jim - WS6X
 

I experienced a very similar problem using FSK, which switching to AFSK completely solved. Following is an email I composed after the contest, but never sent.

 

>>>> 

I encountered a first-time problem with the K3s in the CQWW RTTY test last weekend. I was using MMTTY, N1MM+, microKEYER II, Win 10. I always use the K3s in FSK mode.

 

After a bit of sleuthing, I couldn’t decide if this is a K3 problem, but thought I’d submit to this group for starters. I will also check with the MMTTY group, and if necessary the N1MM group.

 

Here’s the story:

As usual, I had the setup all ready to go in the morning and even made a handful of contacts. Everything worked as normal.

At the start of the contest however, I noticed that the K3 was sending rather slowly, with a bit of “jerky” quality. After a few minutes, as the problem got progressively worse, I started looking for answers. I checked all the usual stuff:

- All K3 settings, microKEYER II, N1MM configuration and MMTTY setup were as I have used them for years;

- I had not done a recent – in the past several days -- N1MM update;

- Thinking it might be a Win 10 timing error, I disabled the anti-virus software and turned off all unnecessary background processes;

- Tried changing the baud rate in MMTTY and the K3;

- RFI? I reduced the power to QRP, transmitted into a dummy load, added more ferrite on several cables…

 

…all to no avail. By this time I was getting worried. On a hunch, I switched to AFSK. Behold! Transmission was back to normal. So that’s what I used for the next several hours. However… My band-changing macros default to FSK in RTTY mode. Every time I changed bands I was back to the same problem.

 

After I took a 4-hour break for some shut-eye, and started on a different band, FSK was working normal again. But only for a few minutes before the stuttering slowdown began again.

 

Today I did some additional poking around, but I’m not finding the answer. I’ve tried MMTTY standalone, everything seems normal. Does this sound like a K3 problem?

>>>> 

 

Throughout the week I tried several times with various combinations of the above. I have not been able to duplicate the problem at all.

Ideas?????

73,

Jim – WS6X

 


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

If using FSK, make sure PTT is being generated by MMTTY *not* N1MM+.
Also make sure you have selected "COM-TxD(FSK)" and *NOT* "Sound +
COM-TxD (FSK)" in MMTTY's MISC -> Tx Port dialog. Finally, make sure
the "Char. Wait" and "Diddle Wait" sliders are fully to the left in
MMTTY's TX tab.

Note: those settings must be made from the N1MM+ Digital Window
*NOT* in a stand alone version of MMTTY.

See the example configuration for N1MM+ and MK II in Router (Help
-> Download Documents).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-10-03 5:35 AM, Ronald PA3EWP wrote:
Hello,
During the RTTY contest last weekend we noticed a problem that our
transmitted text was abrupted.
A lot of times our call was transmitted as PI4C or PI4CO instead of PI4COM.
We used the latest version of N1MM+, MMTTY, Microkeyer MK2 and a Elecraft
K3.
N1MM was configured as SO2V.
If I looked at the digital interface window the text was transmitted, at the
end the software disabled the PTT of the radio.
But the radio was still busy transmitting the text, the FSK led was still
flashing, but the software disabled the PTT.
I try to find what was happening or was changed, but I couldn't find any
solution for it.
So we changed it to AFSK and all worked fine again.
If I started MMTTY without N1MM it worked fine.
I checked it at after the contest and I come to the following conclusion:
The same computer setup with another K3 radio, other Microkeyer interface =>
same results.
Same computer setup with TS990, no problem
Other computer setup with the same K3, same problem.
I asked a friend to test his K3 and he has the same issue.
I hope someone has a solution for it, I am sure it must be something simple,
but I can't find it.
Ronald
PA3EWP
Contestgroup Oude Maas
30th anniversary callsign: PI30COM
http://www.pi4com.nl <http://www.pi4com.nl/>


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

At the start of the contest however, I noticed that the K3 was
sending rather slowly, with a bit of "jerky" quality. After a few
minutes, as the problem got progressively worse, I started looking
for answers. I checked all the usual stuff:
Make sure you have selected COM-TxD(FSK) and *NOT* Sound + COM-TxD (FSK)
in MMTTY's MISC -> Tx Port.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-10-04 7:35 AM, Jim - WS6X wrote:
I experienced a very similar problem using FSK, which switching to AFSK
completely solved. Following is an email I composed after the contest, but
never sent.

I encountered a first-time problem with the K3s in the CQWW RTTY test last
weekend. I was using MMTTY, N1MM+, microKEYER II, Win 10. I always use the
K3s in FSK mode.
After a bit of sleuthing, I couldn't decide if this is a K3 problem, but
thought I'd submit to this group for starters. I will also check with the
MMTTY group, and if necessary the N1MM group.
Here's the story:
As usual, I had the setup all ready to go in the morning and even made a
handful of contacts. Everything worked as normal.
At the start of the contest however, I noticed that the K3 was sending
rather slowly, with a bit of "jerky" quality. After a few minutes, as the
problem got progressively worse, I started looking for answers. I checked
all the usual stuff:
- All K3 settings, microKEYER II, N1MM configuration and MMTTY setup were as
I have used them for years;
- I had not done a recent - in the past several days -- N1MM update;
- Thinking it might be a Win 10 timing error, I disabled the anti-virus
software and turned off all unnecessary background processes;
- Tried changing the baud rate in MMTTY and the K3;
- RFI? I reduced the power to QRP, transmitted into a dummy load, added more
ferrite on several cables.
.all to no avail. By this time I was getting worried. On a hunch, I switched
to AFSK. Behold! Transmission was back to normal. So that's what I used for
the next several hours. However. My band-changing macros default to FSK in
RTTY mode. Every time I changed bands I was back to the same problem.
After I took a 4-hour break for some shut-eye, and started on a different
band, FSK was working normal again. But only for a few minutes before the
stuttering slowdown began again.
Today I did some additional poking around, but I'm not finding the answer.
I've tried MMTTY standalone, everything seems normal. Does this sound like a
K3 problem?

Throughout the week I tried several times with various combinations of the
above. I have not been able to duplicate the problem at all.
Ideas?????
73,
Jim - WS6X


Robert W5AJ
 

wonder if the other computer – on AFSK had VOX on

or which route the PTT was wired with different test rigs

for K3,  you might resolve using the “Comm PTT” on Ports setup page

Not my favorite but worth testing (That’s a writelog screen – assume N1MM has similar)

 

PI4C,  PI4CO and PI4COM are all found in the recent RBN link given on web page

 

https://public.tableau.com/profile/oh2bbt#!/vizhome/CQWorldwideDXContestRTTY2020RBNstatistics/DXCallanalyse

 

Recall doing repeat as was copying different callsigns with and without “M”

 

73 P40P

 

Robert

Midland, Texas

 

From: Elecraft-K3@groups.io [mailto:Elecraft-K3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ronald PA3EWP
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2020 4:35 AM
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Subject: [Elecraft-K3] K3 RTTY issues with N1MM+

 

Hello,

 

During the RTTY contest last weekend we noticed a problem that our transmitted text was abrupted.

A lot of times our call was transmitted as PI4C or PI4CO instead of PI4COM.

 

We used the latest version of N1MM+, MMTTY, Microkeyer MK2 and a Elecraft K3.

N1MM was configured as SO2V.

 

If I looked at the digital interface window the text was transmitted, at the end the software disabled the PTT of the radio.

But the radio was still busy transmitting the text, the FSK led was still flashing, but the software disabled the PTT.

I try to find what was happening or was changed, but I couldn’t find any solution for it.

 

So we changed it to AFSK and all worked fine again.

If I started MMTTY without N1MM it worked fine.

 

I checked it at after the contest and I come to the following conclusion:

The same computer setup with another K3 radio, other Microkeyer interface => same results.

Same computer setup with TS990, no problem

Other computer setup with the same K3, same problem.

 

I asked a friend to test his K3 and he has the same issue.

 

I hope someone has a solution for it, I am sure it must be something simple, but I can’t find it.

 

 

 

Ronald

PA3EWP

 

Contestgroup Oude Maas

30th anniversary callsign: PI30COM

http://www.pi4com.nl

 

 

 


Jim - WS6X
 

Thanks, Joe!

The only config setting that differed from your suggestions was TX Port was set to “Sound + COM-TxD (FSK).” That would explain why AFSK worked. I’m not sure when that got changed, except I was fiddling with it during the contest trying to get something to work. Anyway, everything seems to be OK now.

Thanks again,

Jim – WS6X


Harry WX8C
 

I believe I may have experienced the same issue as described by Ronald.  My setup was basically the same as his except I was operating SO1V.  I went back and verified that all of my settings are as Joe describes.  I should add that I cannot easily independently verify what is actually being transmitted and everything looks normal in the MK2 message screen as well as the N1MM message screen.  The specific condition that I see that I do not recall being normal is that on the MK2 I can see the PTT2 LED de-activate but then I can see the FSK LED continue to flash for approximately 1 second.

Harry
WX8C


Bill KO7SS
 

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 10:00 AM, Ronald PA3EWP wrote:
So we changed it to AFSK and all worked fine again.
Problem solved !

73, Bill KO7SS


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

It is necessary to:

1) Set the USB Port to Option C: Limiting Speed (in Misc -> Tx Port)
2) Set Misc -> Tx Port to COM-TxD(FSK) and *not* Sound + COM-TxD (FSK)
3) Check PTT on the FSK Ports in microHAM USB Device Router
4) *DO NOT* use "PTT via Radio Command" [in *ANY* mode] in the N1MM+
Radio Port.

N1MM+ uses a *separate copy* of MMTTY so one must make (1) and (2)
through the N1MM+ Digital Window *FOR BOTH RADIO 1 and RADIO 2* if
using SO2R or SO2V.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-10-04 2:59 PM, Harry Rudolph via groups.io wrote:
I believe I may have experienced the same issue as described by Ronald.  My setup was basically the same as his except I was operating SO1V.  I went back and verified that all of my settings are as Joe describes.  I should add that I cannot easily independently verify what is actually being transmitted and everything looks normal in the MK2 message screen as well as the N1MM message screen.  The specific condition that I see that I do not recall being normal is that on the MK2 I can see the PTT2 LED de-activate but then I can see the FSK LED continue to flash for approximately 1 second.
Harry
WX8C


Harry WX8C
 

Not sure if this will close this issue out or not but I think this is mostly solved for me now.  I double and triple checked all of the setup parameters itemized by Joe.  I had everything setup as he described but I still had the condition with the PTT opening before the FSK message had completed.  I opened and closed N1MM (w/ MMTTY) and Microham Router several times and still no change.  Finally, I closed all of the programs and rebooted the computer - problem solved, at least for now.  Still not sure what caused the issue but I believe I am in good shape now.

Thanks for all of the comments and help.

73
Harry
WX8C


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Finally, I closed all of the programs and rebooted the computer -
problem solved, at least for now. Still not sure what caused the
issue but I believe I am in good shape now.
This is a typical Windows "resources issue." It is one reason that
Windows Support professionals typically recommend that any Windows
system be restarted (not reboot - RESTART which forces a reload of
the low level hardware drivers) on a regular basis (daily). In
addition, the first step in debugging any problem with I/O (USB,
hard drive, video, etc.) should also be a *RESTART*.

The problem is generally an unrelated program or driver with a
"memory leak" (using memory space or "handles" and not releasing
them when done) or a program that writes to memory space that is
not properly assigned to it.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-10-06 10:45 AM, Harry Rudolph via groups.io wrote:
Not sure if this will close this issue out or not but I think this is mostly solved for me now.  I double and triple checked all of the setup parameters itemized by Joe.  I had everything setup as he described but I still had the condition with the PTT opening before the FSK message had completed.  I opened and closed N1MM (w/ MMTTY) and Microham Router several times and still no change.  Finally, I closed all of the programs and rebooted the computer - problem solved, at least for now.  Still not sure what caused the issue but I believe I am in good shape now.
Thanks for all of the comments and help.
73
Harry
WX8C


Ronald PA3EWP
 

Hello,

A update from my site.
After some more test last week I got completely confused.
Sometimes it worked, than it stopped.

I completely removed the software from my laptop: mmtty, n1mm, microham, wsjt.
Did a new install of this software and everything works fine now.

I have configured everything as before.
So it seems that underwater something still went wrong in the old situation.
Let's hope al will keep on working until the next RTTY contest.

Thanks all for the advices, see you next time in a contest.


Ronald Stuy
PA3EWP

Contestgroup Oude Maas
30th anniversary callsign: PI30COM
http://www.pi4com.nl







-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft-K3@groups.io <Elecraft-K3@groups.io> Namens Joe Subich, W4TV
Verzonden: 06 October 2020 21:02
Aan: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3 RTTY issues with N1MM+


Finally, I closed all of the programs and rebooted the computer -
problem solved, at least for now. Still not sure what caused the
issue but I believe I am in good shape now.
This is a typical Windows "resources issue." It is one reason that Windows Support professionals typically recommend that any Windows system be restarted (not reboot - RESTART which forces a reload of the low level hardware drivers) on a regular basis (daily). In addition, the first step in debugging any problem with I/O (USB, hard drive, video, etc.) should also be a *RESTART*.

The problem is generally an unrelated program or driver with a "memory leak" (using memory space or "handles" and not releasing them when done) or a program that writes to memory space that is not properly assigned to it.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-10-06 10:45 AM, Harry Rudolph via groups.io wrote:
Not sure if this will close this issue out or not but I think this is mostly solved for me now. I double and triple checked all of the setup parameters itemized by Joe. I had everything setup as he described but I still had the condition with the PTT opening before the FSK message had completed. I opened and closed N1MM (w/ MMTTY) and Microham Router several times and still no change. Finally, I closed all of the programs and rebooted the computer - problem solved, at least for now. Still not sure what caused the issue but I believe I am in good shape now.

Thanks for all of the comments and help.

73
Harry
WX8C