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K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)


 

Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR


Wes
 

If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V.  Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?

Wes  N7WS

On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR




 

Wes,

Max power output is automatically reduced in proportion to supply voltage. At very low voltages the PA is bypassed, but the operator can keep right on transmitting at QRP levels.

Wayne
N6KR


----
http://www.elecraft.com

On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Wes <wes@triconet.org> wrote:
D
If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V. Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?

Wes N7WS


On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR






 

Both rigs use their BPFs in TX and RX modes. But the K3S also uses LPFs in both cases, improving IP2, etc.

Wayne

----
http://www.elecraft.com

On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Wes <wes@triconet.org> wrote:

If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V. Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?

Wes N7WS


On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR






southdaleus
 

And that is yet another very cool feature of this radio.

Dale, K9VUJ

On 07, Jul 2018, at 11:35, N6KR <n6kr@elecraft.com> wrote:

Wes,

Max power output is automatically reduced in proportion to supply voltage. At very low voltages the PA is bypassed, but the operator can keep right on transmitting at QRP levels.

Wayne
N6KR


----
http://www.elecraft.com

On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Wes <wes@triconet.org> wrote:
D
If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V. Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?

Wes N7WS


On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR






HB
 

Is this table still available somewhere?

Hank
K4HYJ


Bob Wilson, N6TV
 

Repeating, it is now at


On Sun, Jan 27, 2019, 5:13 PM HB <hbjr@... wrote:
Is this table still available somewhere?

Hank
K4HYJ


Rob Sherwood
 

Hi Bob,

I would count the order differently if numbering is of interest.  The radio at #1 cannot be reproduced with current software.  #2 is a receiver, but the second sample of the same model is lower.  That puts the K3S at the top. There are four K3 radios of some version or other down the list so I would only count the first one.

I would leave out the KX3 since the value is between 104 dB and 65 dB, depending on how you consider worst case which is the opposite sideband rejection. Perseus is only a receiver, so drop that from your count.  

That makes the K3S #1 and the 7610 #9 if you want to count for some reason. The difference in 2 kHz dynamic range is 106 dB compared to 98 dB.  Both radios work really well, so if I was making a choice I would consider all the pros and cons of each radio. 

Let’s look at two radios that are 1 dB apart, as if that mattered. The Flex 6600M is 99 dB and the IC-7610 is 98 dB.  The radios are vastly different.  I might choose the Flex for its features or the Icom for its features. I would not pick one over the other because of 1 dB. That would be silly. 

Another case in point. The Hilberling is a very nice SSB radio, but not a completion CW radio even though it is rated at 105 dB. That is the same 105 dB rating as a second sample K3S tested on 10 meters vs. 20 meters.  

Consider drawing a line somewhere on my table, say at 90 dB. I think there are 18 different models that are that good.  Now look at all the attributes and features of each one, including price, and decide what is right for each individual.  

If all I operated was SSB and FT8, I would pick an IC-7300 for $999.00 when it on sale.  Being an S&P CW contester, the TS-890S has a waterfall that is the best I have ever used.  It also has the best RMDR I have ever tested.  

The bottom line is as ham radio operators we now have the most amazing selection of outstanding transceivers to choose from in the 58 years I have been a ham.  

73, Rob Sherwood, NC0B


On Jan 27, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV <n6tv@...> wrote:

Repeating, it is now at

http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019, 5:13 PM HB <hbjr@... wrote:
Is this table still available somewhere?

Hank
K4HYJ



If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Ludovic Ludo
 

Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
Repeating, it is now at


So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
Finally a real competitor in few months...

   :)

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG.
http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
Finally a real competitor in few months...
Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.


73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
Repeating, it is now at

http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf

73,
Bob, N6TV
So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
Finally a real competitor in few months...
   :)
Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG.
http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com


 

My two cents:


Rob wrote:

I would count the order differently if numbering is of interest. The radio at #1 cannot be reproduced with current software.
Clarified recently in footnote "y" of the RX performance table.


That makes the K3S #1 and the 7610 #9 if you want to count for some reason. The difference in 2 kHz dynamic range is 106 dB compared to 98 dB.
The table is sorted on 2 kHz IMDDR3. However, the table also shows dramatic differences in blocking dynamic range. For example, the K3S is 20 to 30 dB stronger in this regard than all of the direct-sampling radios in the table. This is due to the K3S having narrow-band filtering (crystal filters) ahead of the ADC. This can greatly reduce desense and other artifacts in any high-signal situation (Field Day, KW neighbor, multi-TX station, etc.).

Wayne
N6KR


Rob Sherwood
 

This is true, as is the very high blocking value for the TS-890S. If I was at a typical Field Day event, without extremely good antenna isolation (Search on W3AO & info from W3LPL), I would consider the legacy superhet over a modern direct sampling IF there are 2 or more signals on the same band.

Otherwise, for most of us most of the time we are nowhere near blocking radios. If we have a neighboring ham a mile away, and we are both on 160 or 80m with good verticals, blocking can certainly be an issue, if transmitted phase noise doesn't get you first. (Or RMDR on most of the older radios.)

An FTdx-3000 in the foothills above Boulder, CO wipes out hams within at 5 to 10 mile radius with transmitted broadband noise.

Rob, NC0B

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft-K3@groups.io [mailto:Elecraft-K3@groups.io] On Behalf Of N6KR
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 6:17 AM
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)



My two cents:


Rob wrote:

I would count the order differently if numbering is of interest. The radio at #1 cannot be reproduced with current software.
Clarified recently in footnote "y" of the RX performance table.


That makes the K3S #1 and the 7610 #9 if you want to count for some reason. The difference in 2 kHz dynamic range is 106 dB compared to 98 dB.
The table is sorted on 2 kHz IMDDR3. However, the table also shows dramatic differences in blocking dynamic range. For example, the K3S is 20 to 30 dB stronger in this regard than all of the direct-sampling radios in the table. This is due to the K3S having narrow-band filtering (crystal filters) ahead of the ADC. This can greatly reduce desense and other artifacts in any high-signal situation (Field Day, KW neighbor, multi-TX station, etc.).

Wayne
N6KR







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HB
 

Thanks!  All of the old links are dead.

Hank
K4HYJ



harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

Guess you have not seen the latest spec for the 101D Joe... You might be surprised..


On Monday, January 28, 2019, 6:08:17 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:



> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...

Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
> Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
>> Repeating, it is now at
>>
>> http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob, N6TV
>
> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...
>
>     :)
>
> Best regards,
> Ludovic - F5PBG.
> http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com
>






Gordon LaPoint
 

So what are the spec's?

On 1/28/19 12:24 PM, harry latterman via Groups.Io wrote:
Guess you have not seen the latest spec for the 101D Joe... You might be surprised..


On Monday, January 28, 2019, 6:08:17 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:



> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...

Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
> Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
>> Repeating, it is now at
>>
>> http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob, N6TV
>
> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...
>
>     :)
>
> Best regards,
> Ludovic - F5PBG.
> http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com
>






-- 
Gordon - N1MGO


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

No, I haven't seen either specs or - more importantly - test data from
an independent laboratory like ARRL or NC0B. As far as I know, the
FTdx101D has not received FCC approval and is not available in the USA.

I do know, based on data from ARRL and NC0B, that Yaesu need to do a
complete redesign of their synthesizers as the FTdx3000 and FTdx5000
have among the worst phase noise performance of any transceiver
currently on the market. Like many manufacturers, Yaesu are known to
recycle circuitry from model to model until conditions force them to
change.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2019-01-28 12:24 PM, harry latterman via Groups.Io wrote:
Guess you have not seen the latest spec for the 101D Joe... You might be surprised..
On Monday, January 28, 2019, 6:08:17 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@subich.com> wrote:

> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...
Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.
73,
    ... Joe, W4TV
On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
Repeating, it is now at

http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf

73,
Bob, N6TV
So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
Finally a real competitor in few months...

     :)

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG.
http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com


harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

Check out the photo ad in the latest QST.  That is the closes you will get to any specs at this time on the 101D.  They did a redesign of the DDS it seems to be able to compete with Elecraft, Flex, Icom and the latest Kenwood.  In my case, I upgraded two K3's with the KSYN3A.  Also not sure how really bad the FTdx3000 is, but I have no problem with my FTdx5000MPL and being on 160, 80 or 40 meters at night when another ham who lives about 1.4 mile away is on. Neither of us interfers with the other. He has a IC-7300 on most of the time

In any case this is a K3 site and probably need to kill this thread.  For whatever it is worth I still have a K3/100, Full K-Line and KX2 and all keepers... I have been a Elecraft fan boy for well over 10 yrs. However I also have a IC-7300 and a 1 yr old FTdx5000MPL.I got in a trade Radio was bought by the original owner in Dec 2017 and only taken out of the box to take a photo.  He said it was too big for him.. My two blast fromthe past are my HW-16/HG10 and a radio most have never heard about, a ALDA 103.

Harry K7ZOV

On Monday, January 28, 2019, 11:50:54 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:



No, I haven't seen either specs or - more importantly - test data from
an independent laboratory like ARRL or NC0B.  As far as I know, the
FTdx101D has not received FCC approval and is not available in the USA.

I do know, based on data from ARRL and NC0B, that Yaesu need to do a
complete redesign of their synthesizers as the FTdx3000 and FTdx5000
have among the worst phase noise performance of any transceiver
currently on the market.  Like many manufacturers, Yaesu are known to
recycle circuitry from model to model until conditions force them to
change.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-28 12:24 PM, harry latterman via Groups.Io wrote:
>  Guess you have not seen the latest spec for the 101D Joe... You might be surprised..
>
>
>      On Monday, January 28, 2019, 6:08:17 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:


>  > So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
>  > Finally a real competitor in few months...
>
> Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.
>
>
> 73,
>
>      ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
>> Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
>>> Repeating, it is now at
>>>
>>> http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Bob, N6TV
>>
>> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
>> Finally a real competitor in few months...
>>
>>       :)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Ludovic - F5PBG.
>> http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com
>>






Rob Sherwood
 

I would like to see the latest spec on the FTdx-101D.

 

Rob, NC0B

 

From: Elecraft-K3@groups.io [mailto:Elecraft-K3@groups.io] On Behalf Of harry latterman via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 10:25 AM
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

 

Guess you have not seen the latest spec for the 101D Joe... You might be surprised..

 

 

On Monday, January 28, 2019, 6:08:17 AM MST, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:

 

 


> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...

Not if Yaesu continue to use their dirty synthesizers.


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-28 1:25 AM, Ludovic Ludo wrote:
> Le 28/01/2019 à 07:14, Bob Wilson, N6TV a écrit :
>> Repeating, it is now at
>>
>> http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob, N6TV
>
> So we wait the comparison with the FTdx101 now.
> Finally a real competitor in few months...
>
>     :)
>
> Best regards,
> Ludovic - F5PBG.
> http://radioamateur.forumsactifs.com
>




 


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Roger <dl2ydp@...>
 

A comparison with TS-890S would be interesting !

73,  Roger DL2YDP


Rob Sherwood
 

If someone wants TS-890S numbers I have some on my website and more available on my long form report. 

Rob, NC0B

rob@...

 

From: Elecraft-K3@groups.io [mailto:Elecraft-K3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:11 AM
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

 

A comparison with TS-890S would be interesting !

73,  Roger DL2YDP

 


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