[Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability


 

If that is true, we’ll replace it immediately. Please contact customer support.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:10 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Nope.
I guess I paid $119 for a 1ppm oscillator upgrade that doesn't have "typical" (0.5ppm) performance.

_________
73,
Jim - N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:34
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

Hi Jim,

Have you learned anything more on this issue?

Thanks
Mike
K7PI


Jim - N4ST
 

Thanks Wayne, but I’ve had this K3S for over a year and a half and never noticed the problem until I started working 6M MSK144.
I couldn’t understand why I could hear the meteor scatter pings, but wouldn’t decode. The max freq tolerance for MSK144 is 200 Hz.
When I figured out I was off frequency, I did a REF CAL adjustment and was dead on.
Then I noticed that from day-to-day I could be 50Hz-70Hz off, even for a warmed up rig.
I went through setting the REF CAL several different times, using different techniques and all seemed to work, but within a few days I would be off frequency again, by 50 Hz or so.
Now I just monitor for a few MSK144 pings and see where the majority are transmitting and offset my TX frequency by the appropriate amount and I’m good to go.
Especially easy now during e-skip when the signals are readily available.


__________
73,
Jim – N4ST


From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:43
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability



If that is true, we’ll replace it immediately. Please contact customer support.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:10 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Nope.
I guess I paid $119 for a 1ppm oscillator upgrade that doesn't have "typical" (0.5ppm) performance.

_________
73,
Jim - N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:34
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

Hi Jim,

Have you learned anything more on this issue?

Thanks
Mike
K7PI

________________________________________
Posted by: Wayne Burdick <n6kr@elecraft.com>
________________________________________


 

Hi Jim,

Typically the 1 ppm TCXO is +/- 0.5 ppm after warmup, which would be +/- 25 Hz (approx) on 6 meters. So you very well may have a substandard unit. If you decide you’d like to replace it, let us know.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:11 AM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks Wayne, but I’ve had this K3S for over a year and a half and never noticed the problem until I started working 6M MSK144.
I couldn’t understand why I could hear the meteor scatter pings, but wouldn’t decode. The max freq tolerance for MSK144 is 200 Hz.
When I figured out I was off frequency, I did a REF CAL adjustment and was dead on.
Then I noticed that from day-to-day I could be 50Hz-70Hz off, even for a warmed up rig.
I went through setting the REF CAL several different times, using different techniques and all seemed to work, but within a few days I would be off frequency again, by 50 Hz or so.
Now I just monitor for a few MSK144 pings and see where the majority are transmitting and offset my TX frequency by the appropriate amount and I’m good to go.
Especially easy now during e-skip when the signals are readily available.

__________
73,
Jim – N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:43
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

If that is true, we’ll replace it immediately. Please contact customer support.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:10 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Nope.
I guess I paid $119 for a 1ppm oscillator upgrade that doesn't have "typical" (0.5ppm) performance.

_________
73,
Jim - N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:34
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

Hi Jim,

Have you learned anything more on this issue?

Thanks
Mike
K7PI
________________________________________
Posted by: Wayne Burdick <n6kr@elecraft.com>
________________________________________



Rob Sherwood
 

If I was using a mode that requires high frequency accuracy and stability, two issues come to mind. I would want a house frequency standard on my end, and whatever K3 option is required to lock the radio to that standard.  Surplus GPSDO and Rubidium standards are available in the $150 range. The other question is what is being used on the other end?  Can you assume the other guy you are trying to work is on frequency?  

I have been running a Efratom Rubidium standard 24x7 for over 15 years and it is still within a few parts in 10 to the 10th compared to my GPSDO.  I don't run my two other Efratom Rubidium oscillators all the time (2 QTHs or I wouldn't have so many), and they come up within the same level of accuracy within 10 minutes after turn-on. 

Most of this type of surplus equipment comes out of cell phone sites, and would at least eliminate having to fiddle with frequency accuracy on your end. 

Rob, NC0B


On Jun 14, 2017, at 3:17 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Wayne, but I’ve had this K3S for over a year and a half and never noticed the problem until I started working 6M MSK144.
I couldn’t understand why I could hear the meteor scatter pings, but wouldn’t decode. The max freq tolerance for MSK144 is 200 Hz.
When I figured out I was off frequency, I did a REF CAL adjustment and was dead on.
Then I noticed that from day-to-day I could be 50Hz-70Hz off, even for a warmed up rig.
I went through setting the REF CAL several different times, using different techniques and all seemed to work, but within a few days I would be off frequency again, by 50 Hz or so.
Now I just monitor for a few MSK144 pings and see where the majority are transmitting and offset my TX frequency by the appropriate amount and I’m good to go.
Especially easy now during e-skip when the signals are readily available.

__________
73,
Jim – N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:43
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

If that is true, we’ll replace it immediately. Please contact customer support.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:10 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
>
> Nope.
> I guess I paid $119 for a 1ppm oscillator upgrade that doesn't have "typical" (0.5ppm) performance.
>
> _________
> 73,
> Jim - N4ST
>
> From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:34
> To: Elecraft_K3@...
> Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Have you learned anything more on this issue?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
> K7PI

________________________________________
Posted by: Wayne Burdick <n6kr@...>
________________________________________



If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Jim - N4ST
 

Rob,


Thanks for your input.
Yes, I have been thinking about a GPSDO and the External Reference board.
I don't align my rig based on the other guys transmit frequency, but I do adjust my transmit frequency to match his.
That is the semi-frustrating thing. The vast majority of the stations will be within 10-15 Hz of each other on 6-meters, with just an occasional outlier.
They are managing to stay on frequency just fine. Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉


Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST


From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:20
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability



If I was using a mode that requires high frequency accuracy and stability, two issues come to mind. I would want a house frequency standard on my end, and whatever K3 option is required to lock the radio to that standard. Surplus GPSDO and Rubidium standards are available in the $150 range. The other question is what is being used on the other end? Can you assume the other guy you are trying to work is on frequency?


I have been running a Efratom Rubidium standard 24x7 for over 15 years and it is still within a few parts in 10 to the 10th compared to my GPSDO. I don't run my two other Efratom Rubidium oscillators all the time (2 QTHs or I wouldn't have so many), and they come up within the same level of accuracy within 10 minutes after turn-on.


Most of this type of surplus equipment comes out of cell phone sites, and would at least eliminate having to fiddle with frequency accuracy on your end.


Rob, NC0B

On Jun 14, 2017, at 3:17 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' mailto:newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks Wayne, but I’ve had this K3S for over a year and a half and never noticed the problem until I started working 6M MSK144.
I couldn’t understand why I could hear the meteor scatter pings, but wouldn’t decode. The max freq tolerance for MSK144 is 200 Hz.
When I figured out I was off frequency, I did a REF CAL adjustment and was dead on.
Then I noticed that from day-to-day I could be 50Hz-70Hz off, even for a warmed up rig.
I went through setting the REF CAL several different times, using different techniques and all seemed to work, but within a few days I would be off frequency again, by 50 Hz or so.
Now I just monitor for a few MSK144 pings and see where the majority are transmitting and offset my TX frequency by the appropriate amount and I’m good to go.

Especially easy now during e-skip when the signals are readily available.



__________
73,
Jim – N4ST


From: mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:43
To: mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability


If that is true, we’ll replace it immediately. Please contact customer support.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:10 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' mailto:newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] <mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Nope.
I guess I paid $119 for a 1ppm oscillator upgrade that doesn't have "typical" (0.5ppm) performance.

_________
73,
Jim - N4ST

From: mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:34
To: mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

Hi Jim,

Have you learned anything more on this issue?

Thanks
Mike
K7PI

________________________________________
Posted by: Wayne Burdick <mailto:n6kr@elecraft.com>
________________________________________


Wes
 

Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)

 On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

Rob,

... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉

Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST



Jim - N4ST
 

Because the Microsoft grammar checker says, “as I” is bad grammar in that sentence.


One theory is that a preposition always takes an object. The word "as" is a preposition and must take an "object". The word "me" is an object. The word "I" is not an object.
I could have completed the sentence with "as I do" and that would have passed Microsoft's grammar checker.


Enough of the OT
_____
N4ST


From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:57
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability



Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)


On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' mailto:newsgroup@jimpricejr.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:

Rob,


... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉


Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST




________________________________________
Posted by: Wes <wes@triconet.org>
________________________________________


Dave (NK7Z)
 

Because it don't be wrkn wright... :)


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 06/17/2017 07:57 AM, Wes wes@triconet.org [Elecraft_K3] wrote:


Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)

On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@jimpricejr.com
[Elecraft_K3] wrote:


Rob,

... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉

Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit
frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk
like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST


Rob Sherwood
 

That is weird as to what MS prefers since "as I" is definitely correct.  My wife and I are the grammar police for our children, often a hopeless cause.  I did get my PhD physical therapist to quit saying "lay down on the table". Hi Hi.  


On Jun 17, 2017, at 1:34 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

Because the Microsoft grammar checker says, “as I” is bad grammar in that sentence.

One theory is that a preposition always takes an object. The word "as" is a preposition and must take an "object". The word "me" is an object. The word "I" is not an object.
I could have completed the sentence with "as I do" and that would have passed Microsoft's grammar checker.

Enough of the OT
_____
N4ST

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:57
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability

Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)

On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' mailto:newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:

Rob,

... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉

Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST

________________________________________
Posted by: Wes <wes@...>
________________________________________



If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Wes
 

So like, myself I always like cringe when I like hear supposedly learned TV talking heads like use childish grammar on air, you know. 

This nonsense is so persuasive that there is a US Congresswoman from AZ, a former Air Force fighter pilot no less, who uses "like" and "I'm going" in nearly every spoken sentence, which of course, she always ends in upspeak. 

Wes  N7WS


 On 6/17/2017 12:50 PM, Rob Sherwood. rob@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

That is weird as to what MS prefers since "as I" is definitely correct.  My wife and I are the grammar police for our children, often a hopeless cause.  I did get my PhD physical therapist to quit saying "lay down on the table". Hi Hi.  


w7aqk
 

Wes and all,
 
I’m not sure I have a grammar checker on my system, but the spell checker seems to work fairly well.  I always considered myself to be a half way decent speller, but the older I get, the more I seem to “trigger” that feature!  Hi.
 
Most folks seem to get really offended if you correct them on grammar usage.  However,  it does grate the senses when you read some of the stuff that comes across.  improper pronoun usage is pretty common, like “Him and I went to the store”, or “he and me went to the store!”    The words “him” and “me” are intended to be objects of a preposition, and not sentence subjects.  It’s easy to self check these by dropping the other reference.  Those same offenders probably wouldn’t say “him went to the store”, or “me went to the store”, but combining references confuses them. 
 
Jim’s example is a bit more subtle, occurring at the end of a sentence, but the self check is just to add the verb that is assumed, in this case “am”.  You wouldn’t say “me am”, but you would say “I am”.  Again, “me” is supposed to be the object of a preposition.  My guess is that grammar checkers aren’t sophisticated enough to take the complete context into consideration.  Anyway, these rules, and self checks, were drummed into my head at a very early age.  What’s really scary is when you hear someone, who is supposed to be a teacher, make these errors!
 
Grammar is difficult, and unless you are an English major (which I am not!), it’s pretty easy to slip up.  A lot of rules are so obtuse they get violated all the time, and I’m probably a big offender.  However, some rules are pretty “basic”, and jump out at you when they occur.    Personally, I’d rather be called on an error, and endure the embarrassment, than to continue making that same error!
 
I will close with a joke that seems to be somewhat pertinent.
 
A young man from “out west” is given a scholarship to Harvard.  On arrival, he decides to take a tour of the campus.  Along the way, he stops another student and asks, “Can you tell me where the library is at?”.  The student responds, “Sir, at Harvard we do not end our sentences with a preposition!!!”  The young man replies, “I’m very sorry.  Could you please tell me where the library is at, butt head!”
 
Cheers,
 
Dave W7AQK
 

From: Wes wes@... [Elecraft_K3]
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:57 AM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability
 
 

Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)

On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

Rob,

... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉

Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST



Rob Sherwood
 

Winston Churchill supposedly was noting some of the oddities in the English language, saying something was "nonsense up with which I will not put". Likely apocryphal, but amusing compared to saying "something I will not put up with".  

Rob, NC0B


On Jun 18, 2017, at 4:34 AM, 'w7aqk' w7aqk@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

Wes and all,
 
I’m not sure I have a grammar checker on my system, but the spell checker seems to work fairly well.  I always considered myself to be a half way decent speller, but the older I get, the more I seem to “trigger” that feature!  Hi.
 
Most folks seem to get really offended if you correct them on grammar usage.  However,  it does grate the senses when you read some of the stuff that comes across.  improper pronoun usage is pretty common, like “Him and I went to the store”, or “he and me went to the store!”    The words “him” and “me” are intended to be objects of a preposition, and not sentence subjects.  It’s easy to self check these by dropping the other reference.  Those same offenders probably wouldn’t say “him went to the store”, or “me went to the store”, but combining references confuses them. 
 
Jim’s example is a bit more subtle, occurring at the end of a sentence, but the self check is just to add the verb that is assumed, in this case “am”.  You wouldn’t say “me am”, but you would say “I am”.  Again, “me” is supposed to be the object of a preposition.  My guess is that grammar checkers aren’t sophisticated enough to take the complete context into consideration.  Anyway, these rules, and self checks, were drummed into my head at a very early age.  What’s really scary is when you hear someone, who is supposed to be a teacher, make these errors!
 
Grammar is difficult, and unless you are an English major (which I am not!), it’s pretty easy to slip up.  A lot of rules are so obtuse they get violated all the time, and I’m probably a big offender.  However, some rules are pretty “basic”, and jump out at you when they occur.    Personally, I’d rather be called on an error, and endure the embarrassment, than to continue making that same error!
 
I will close with a joke that seems to be somewhat pertinent.
 
A young man from “out west” is given a scholarship to Harvard.  On arrival, he decides to take a tour of the campus.  Along the way, he stops another student and asks, “Can you tell me where the library is at?”.  The student responds, “Sir, at Harvard we do not end our sentences with a preposition!!!”  The young man replies, “I’m very sorry.  Could you please tell me where the library is at, butt head!”
 
Cheers,
 
Dave W7AQK
 
From: Wes wes@... [Elecraft_K3]
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:57 AM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S - KTC03-1 Frequency Stability
 
 

Why isn't the grammar checker wanting to change "as me" to "as I"? :-)

On 6/15/2017 8:31 PM, 'Jim - N4ST' newsgroup@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

Rob,

... Then again, maybe they are doing the same thing as me. 😉

Off Topic
Microsoft's grammar checker wants me to change "adjust my transmit frequency" to "adjust me transmit frequency", and it's not even talk like a pirate day.
________
73,
Jim - N4ST




If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Ben ****
 

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”