[Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300


harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

I am curious also... However I really expect the K3 to stomp the IC-7300... That said the next version(s) will be a issue for Elecraft, since I truly believe ICOM will build on this basic radio model and add much faster and more complex FPGA's and DSP's to match or exceed those in the Flex products. These radios will replace the IC-7600, 7700 and 7851... Just a theory ... Sad part was I hit Wayne up on doing a K4 that would look something like the 7300 about 2-3 yrs ago.... Really hope that in the back room of Elecraft they are working on it... I am happy with my K3 and K-Line. More radio then I ever thought I would own... I am hoping the 7300 will fall short. I don't want Elecraft to start hurting...

2 cents..back under my rock and time to fire up my K3 now and see what's cooking on the bands.

73 Harry  K7ZOV



From: "w2blc@... [Elecraft_K3]"
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 4:08 PM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

 
Anyone done a side-by-side comparison yet? Sure like to hear about it if you have.

Bill W2BLC K-Line




dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

I don't believe that any time soon the SDR radios are going to surpass the conventional designs like the K3 any time soon nor at the prices that hams are willing to pay for them. Wishful thinking, yes and for Icom very profitable because with the 7300 it has to be a very easy and cheap to manufacture rig. A high profit margin. I would expect the price of the 7300 to fall under $1K with in a year. There will be the next generation, of course, it always is with the off shore mfg. Then the whole process of selling starts all over again. I'm glad that Icom has such a furious following, it will keep them in the ham business for a while thankfully. Someone said, ham radio is only about 10 percent of their entire business.

Just my opinion

Dale, k9VUJ

On 07, Apr 2016, at 18:19, "harry latterman harrylatterman@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am curious also... However I really expect the K3 to stomp the IC-7300... That said the next version(s) will be a issue for Elecraft, since I truly believe ICOM will build on this basic radio model and add much faster and more complex FPGA's and DSP's to match or exceed those in the Flex products. These radios will replace the IC-7600, 7700 and 7851... Just a theory ... Sad part was I hit Wayne up on doing a K4 that would look something like the 7300 about 2-3 yrs ago.... Really hope that in the back room of Elecraft they are working on it... I am happy with my K3 and K-Line. More radio then I ever thought I would own... I am hoping the 7300 will fall short. I don't want Elecraft to start hurting...

2 cents..back under my rock and time to fire up my K3 now and see what's cooking on the bands.

73 Harry K7ZOV


From: "w2blc@nycap.rr.com [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 4:08 PM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

Anyone done a side-by-side comparison yet? Sure like to hear about it if you have.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


w2blc@...
 

I too have a K-Line and fully expect it to out perform the 7300 - it should. But, I do not have access to a 7300 to compare with. Hmmm K4?? Makes me wonder. Progress must come.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

Wishful thinking with a "k4" etc.

Elecraft is smart and knows where the market is and what they can make their business viable with. Maybe in ten years from now it might change, but if you or I were to hold off waiting, we both might be dead before it happens.

Have a good night.
73
Dale, k9vuj

On 07, Apr 2016, at 18:53, "w2blc@nycap.rr.com [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I too have a K-Line and fully expect it to out perform the 7300 - it should. But, I do not have access to a 7300 to compare with. Hmmm K4?? Makes me wonder. Progress must come.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


Ludovic Ludo
 

Le 07/04/2016 23:50, dalej dj2001x@... [Elecraft_K3] a écrit :
 ... SDR radios are going to surpass the conventional designs like the K3 any time soon ...
You are wrong, it exists, it is the K3S ...

Best regards.


dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

AAAAhhhhh I never said that. It is a quote from someone else and not me.

SD radios have a long way to go before they surpass radios like the K3 at the same price point equal performance.

Dale, k9vuj

On 08, Apr 2016, at 15:43, 'f5pbg@free.fr' f5pbg@free.fr [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


w2blc@...
 

At the price break? You mean for the rig and all the options for it? Devil's advocate here. On the K3 - everything is extra - tuner, filters, SWL coverage, etc. Not complaining, luv my K-Line and have no interest in replacing it. But, it is of interest what the Icom 7300 does - as everything is installed and a display for $1500 or less.

Will it be more than an entry level radio? Maybe, if you are not a price snob.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

Lets wait for the lab numbers. Sure, if you add every filter, every option then the price of the K3 is what it is, but for most of us we don't need all the options. That's one of the things I like about the Elecraft gear amongst others. I don't need the internal tuner, nor do I need every filter.

Lets just wait and see how things shake out. I still believe it's going to be a long time before the SD radios at the same price point as the K3 or other's of the same design fair. My opinion it will be some time. Having said that, if you are willing to produce say $20K plus for a militarized SD radio then maybe, but I would still like to see the numbers of those rigs too.

All the best
73
Dale, K9VUJ

On 09, Apr 2016, at 15:31, w2blc@nycap.rr.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



At the price break? You mean for the rig and all the options for it? Devil's advocate here. On the K3 - everything is extra - tuner, filters, SWL coverage, etc. Not complaining, luv my K-Line and have no interest in replacing it. But, it is of interest what the Icom 7300 does - as everything is installed and a display for $1500 or less.

Will it be more than an entry level radio? Maybe, if you are not a price snob.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

I think you will see ICOM phase out the 7200, 7600, 7700 and 7851 over the next couple of years and replace all of the radios with SDR and hybrid SDR radios. The end game will be radios that will be more then competitive with the K3 and L-line. I really don't think ICOM is concerned about Elecraft at this time... They want to go after the new "pretty" faces of Yaesu more then the others. They want to take out the FT-991, FTdx1200, FTdx300, FTdx 5000 and maybe even the FTDX9000. They also want the Flex 6xxx market. I really don't think Elecraft or even Kenwood is a threat to their markets and long term goals... That said at one time ICOM was the first choice for DXpeditions with the 756 and later the pro's, but Elecraft took that away and the IC-7000 was suppose to get it back and they blew it big time by making a toaster....

Can a SDR based radio beat out the specs against a K3 at this time?  I would say yes.... Can it do it in the same price range?  Maybe.  The biggest threat, IMHO, to Elecraft is Elecraft when it comes to price verses features... Elecraft is US made in one the THE most expensive part of the country, thus the overhead of CA taxes and fees will never go lower just higher. The other thing, which is a good thing, is Elecraft does not design to be low cost. They design in whatever parts they feel will do the job for many years to come and base the final cost on whatever it takes. ICOM and other are higher volume and lower over head, so you will see a lot of features in future boxes with lower pricing...

I have a K3 K- Line.. I have a KX3 KX-line. I still have my IC-75PROII and now a FT-991... The K3 and L-Line is my pride and joy. I can not see parting with it. I however see a rough road a head for Elecraft and I see it happening very soon because of the 7300. I really hope a K4 has been thought about and has been in the works in the back room.  I hope it will be in a form factor that is like we are seeing, not only with the 7300, but other radios that are in the radar in the EU I have seem the past couple years. They are out there. A QRP version is in the next QST magazine.. They may not be as good as Elecraft, but people won't care since they will still be beyond the radios they have now and price will be the new driving force.

That is my take...Some will agree and most won't. Not everyone can afford a K3S with the newer higher price.  I know I can't.  We are at a time when price will matter more then anything else, because most of the latest low end radio are better then the high end radios of even 5 yrs ago.  I am still rooting for Elecraft and always will. Wayne and Eric and the whole staff is awesome...

73 Harry  K7ZOV



From: "w2blc@... [Elecraft_K3]"
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

 
At the price break? You mean for the rig and all the options for it? Devil's advocate here. On the K3 - everything is extra - tuner, filters, SWL coverage, etc. Not complaining, luv my K-Line and have no interest in replacing it. But, it is of interest what the Icom 7300 does - as everything is installed and a display for $1500 or less.

Will it be more than an entry level radio? Maybe, if you are not a price snob.

Bill W2BLC K-Line



dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

SD ham type radios are cheap to make. That is why they go after that part of the market. I doubt those SD radios will be better than the likes of K3's for a good number of years. Ham's won't be willing to pay the price for the commercial likes of R&S rigs yet. Might I be wrong, but I don't think so.

Cheers
Dale, K9VUJ

On 09, Apr 2016, at 17:53, harry latterman harrylatterman@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I think you will see ICOM phase out the 7200, 7600, 7700 and 7851 over the next couple of years and replace all of the radios with SDR and hybrid SDR radios. The end game will be radios that will be more then competitive with the K3 and L-line. I really don't think ICOM is concerned about Elecraft at this time... They want to go after the new "pretty" faces of Yaesu more then the others. They want to take out the FT-991, FTdx1200, FTdx300, FTdx 5000 and maybe even the FTDX9000. They also want the Flex 6xxx market. I really don't think Elecraft or even Kenwood is a threat to their markets and long term goals... That said at one time ICOM was the first choice for DXpeditions with the 756 and later the pro's, but Elecraft took that away and the IC-7000 was suppose to get it back and they blew it big time by making a toaster....

Can a SDR based radio beat out the specs against a K3 at this time? I would say yes.... Can it do it in the same price range? Maybe. The biggest threat, IMHO, to Elecraft is Elecraft when it comes to price verses features... Elecraft is US made in one the THE most expensive part of the country, thus the overhead of CA taxes and fees will never go lower just higher. The other thing, which is a good thing, is Elecraft does not design to be low cost. They design in whatever parts they feel will do the job for many years to come and base the final cost on whatever it takes. ICOM and other are higher volume and lower over head, so you will see a lot of features in future boxes with lower pricing...

I have a K3 K- Line.. I have a KX3 KX-line. I still have my IC-75PROII and now a FT-991... The K3 and L-Line is my pride and joy. I can not see parting with it. I however see a rough road a head for Elecraft and I see it happening very soon because of the 7300. I really hope a K4 has been thought about and has been in the works in the back room. I hope it will be in a form factor that is like we are seeing, not only with the 7300, but other radios that are in the radar in the EU I have seem the past couple years. They are out there. A QRP version is in the next QST magazine.. They may not be as good as Elecraft, but people won't care since they will still be beyond the radios they have now and price will be the new driving force.

That is my take...Some will agree and most won't. Not everyone can afford a K3S with the newer higher price. I know I can't. We are at a time when price will matter more then anything else, because most of the latest low end radio are better then the high end radios of even 5 yrs ago. I am still rooting for Elecraft and always will. Wayne and Eric and the whole staff is awesome...

73 Harry K7ZOV


From: "w2blc@nycap.rr.com [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

At the price break? You mean for the rig and all the options for it? Devil's advocate here. On the K3 - everything is extra - tuner, filters, SWL coverage, etc. Not complaining, luv my K-Line and have no interest in replacing it. But, it is of interest what the Icom 7300 does - as everything is installed and a display for $1500 or less.

Will it be more than an entry level radio? Maybe, if you are not a price snob.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


n2msqrp
 

SD radio hardware may be cheaper but you have to take into account the software development and the fact that the filters, RF power output stages are still analog so the price is not that bad. The front panel User Interface is still basically the same.

SDR has taken over every other facet of RF communications. The Amateur Radio market is left. I figure it did not go SDR earlier because it is a small niche market with a large amount of traditional operators.

I vividly remember the discussion in my college days of the 1970's. My circuit design professor knew I was an Amateur Radio operator. We discussing the merits of vacuum tubes versus semiconductors for HF communications. My Digital Signal Processing professor joined the discussion and predicted the future will be Software Defined Radios. At that time the only market that could afford them was the military but if because of Moore's Law (transistor density on an IC doubling ever 18 months) he claimed signal processor and converter chips will continually come down in price and power while reliability will increase.

It was also in the interest of the country. American industry was less competitive in manufacturing but we were, and are, in the forefront of IC design. The K3 uses components, such as crystal filters, which are labor intensive and are fabricated offshore. Ironically the SDR transceivers offered by Apache Labs, ELAD and ICOM use signal processing and FPGA components sourced by American companies.

I was thinking of upgrading my K3 to a K3S but feel the incremental improvement is not justified. I am waiting for The SDR based transceiver. If Elecraft does not offer one they will go the way of KODAK. My $0.02.

Mike N2MS

----- Original Message -----
From: dalej dj2001x@comcast.net [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
To: Elecraft K3 <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 23:17:42 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

SD ham type radios are cheap to make. That is why they go after that part of the market. I doubt those SD radios will be better than the likes of K3's for a good number of years. Ham's won't be willing to pay the price for the commercial likes of R&S rigs yet. Might I be wrong, but I don't think so.

Cheers
Dale, K9VUJ


O


miscwrc@...
 

This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons.  A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.


dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

Really? Is the Elecraft K3 $7000 now?? Or did I misread again.

BTW, I've read about some hams spending $10000 plus on a rig and complaining about the price of a PL259, hi.

Dale, K9VUJ

On 10, Apr 2016, at 12:22, miscwrc@ct.metrocast.net [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons. A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.


harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

I have a friend (none ham) who has over $15,000 invested in his bass board, trailer, motor, poles, reels and we are not even adding in the truck that hauls it... Hobbies can be expensive. 

2 cent
Harry  K7ZOV



From: "dalej dj2001x@... [Elecraft_K3]" To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

Really?  Is the Elecraft K3 $7000 now??  Or did I misread again.

BTW, I've read about some hams spending $10000 plus on a rig and complaining about the price of a PL259, hi.

Dale, K9VUJ


On 10, Apr 2016, at 12:22, miscwrc@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:



This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons.  A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.





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Rob Sherwood
 

Everyone's disposable income is different. As I neared retirement, I bought a house on 10 acres out in the sticks to play ham radio. How crazy is that?  If we look at the top radios on my web site, once I get the IC-7851 posted, they are the Flex 6700, the K3S and the IC-7851. Hard to argue one is significantly better than the other. Different architectures: direct sampling, down conversion and up conversation.  Price ranges in round numbers $3K to $7K to $14K.  

The Apache ANAN is also a good radio and they don't have to pay a dime for software. 

Operationally the user interfaces are different, and I know I cannot watch 7 bands at once. I doubt I could do SO2R !  We can now buy a really nice TS-590SG for $$1300, and an IC-7300 for $1500, less if you want to wait a month or two.  Lots of choices for radios that all perform well in adverse conditions.  Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.

Rob, NC0B


On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:03 PM, "miscwrc@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons.  A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.



If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


dalej <dj2001x@...>
 

How true Rob.

BTW, thanks for your receiver tests. It's the only one that I feel has consistency and that makes it easy at least for me to judge what is the best rig. I do wish I could sort it, but it's fine the way you have it.

73
Dale, K9VUJ

On 10, Apr 2016, at 15:06, Rob Sherwood. rob@nc0b.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.

Rob, NC0B


ab2tc
 

Hi Rob,


I agree with you on the progress in receivers. On SSB they are now *way* better than can ever be utilized as transmitters are way too dirty. Unfortunately on the TX side there has been no progress, just the opposite. Today's solid state  transmitters (including Elecraft's) on SSB are *way* dirtier than the tube ones of the past. It *can* be done in solid state. A number of technologies have been suggested but none have been adopted by mainstream companies. It's a real pity.


AB2TC - Knut



---In Elecraft_K3@..., <rob@...> wrote :

Everyone's disposable income is different. As I neared retirement, I bought a house on 10 acres out in the sticks to play ham radio. How crazy is that?  If we look at the top radios on my web site, once I get the IC-7851 posted, they are the Flex 6700, the K3S and the IC-7851. Hard to argue one is significantly better than the other. Different architectures: direct sampling, down conversion and up conversation.  Price ranges in round numbers $3K to $7K to $14K.  

The Apache ANAN is also a good radio and they don't have to pay a dime for software. 

Operationally the user interfaces are different, and I know I cannot watch 7 bands at once. I doubt I could do SO2R !  We can now buy a really nice TS-590SG for $$1300, and an IC-7300 for $1500, less if you want to wait a month or two.  Lots of choices for radios that all perform well in adverse conditions.  Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.

Rob, NC0B


On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:03 PM, "miscwrc@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons.  A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.


If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Rob Sherwood
 

You can sort it with Excel. I'll send instructions later. Rob, NC0B

On Apr 10, 2016, at 2:23 PM, "dalej dj2001x@comcast.net [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



How true Rob.

BTW, thanks for your receiver tests. It's the only one that I feel has consistency and that makes it easy at least for me to judge what is the best rig. I do wish I could sort it, but it's fine the way you have it.

73
Dale, K9VUJ

On 10, Apr 2016, at 15:06, Rob Sherwood. rob@nc0b.com [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.

Rob, NC0B

Sent from my iPad


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Rob Sherwood
 

Knut,

 

How true, with few exceptions.  A Yaesu in class A, if NO ALC or processing is run is quite clean, the ANAN has pre-distortion that helps a lot, but otherwise it has been down hill from the Collins 32S-3.  The FT-450 is 29 dB worse on 9th order than the 32S-3.  

 

Rob, NC0B

 

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 2:54 PM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

I agree with you on the progress in receivers. On SSB they are now *way* better than can ever be utilized as transmitters are way too dirty. Unfortunately on the TX side there has been no progress, just the opposite. Today's solid state  transmitters (including Elecraft's) on SSB are *way* dirtier than the tube ones of the past. It *can* be done in solid state. A number of technologies have been suggested but none have been adopted by mainstream companies. It's a real pity.

 

AB2TC - Knut



---In Elecraft_K3@..., <rob@...> wrote :

Everyone's disposable income is different. As I neared retirement, I bought a house on 10 acres out in the sticks to play ham radio. How crazy is that?  If we look at the top radios on my web site, once I get the IC-7851 posted, they are the Flex 6700, the K3S and the IC-7851. Hard to argue one is significantly better than the other. Different architectures: direct sampling, down conversion and up conversation.  Price ranges in round numbers $3K to $7K to $14K.  

 

The Apache ANAN is also a good radio and they don't have to pay a dime for software. 

 

Operationally the user interfaces are different, and I know I cannot watch 7 bands at once. I doubt I could do SO2R !  We can now buy a really nice TS-590SG for $$1300, and an IC-7300 for $1500, less if you want to wait a month or two.  Lots of choices for radios that all perform well in adverse conditions.  Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.

 

Rob, NC0B

 

On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:03 PM, "miscwrc@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

This is such an interesting topic for a variety of reasons.  A question I've been asking, for what seems like forever, is "so just how are SDR radios better. The take away from Rob Sherwood's most excellent web page (table) is (I will be sent to hell for this) they aren't. Not on the technical merits. Here's what I think, from the perspective of the vendor, ABSOLUTELY, because they are far less expensive to manufacture. Yes, the software is expensive, especially if you put it in one radio. But if the software engineering effort is spread across thousands of radios the per radio software cost is low. I am, for the sake of this discussion, discounting multiple simultaneously opened bands, despite the fact you can only talk on one of them. People will come back with it has a panadapter to graphically display the band segment. Yep, and so does the $1,000 IC-730.

I think it is a myth that ham radio operators are cheap. They will drop $9,000 on a Flex, $7,000 on a K-line, $10,000 on a MonsterIR, and some additional thousands on a tower. And that's for the ones that don't build out a farm. All on the mistaken belief more expensive is better. I suspect the real benefit of SDR accrues to the manufacturer. In that sense, I suspect the IC-7300 will be ICOM's most profitable ham radio. It may not be their best but I suspect it is their most profitable...as will the IC-7351 when it becomes their top of the line radio.

 

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Rob Sherwood
 

Here is how N7US figured out how to sort my web table.

 

In case anyone else wants to download Sherwood's Receiver Test Data
(http://www.sherweng.com/table.html) into an Excel spreadsheet, there's an
easy way to do it if you have Excel 2007.

Open a new worksheet and select the Data ribbon. Then click on "From Web"
in the "Get External Data" box and copy in the URL into the pop-up box. It
will see the table on the web page and highlight it so you can select and
import the data. You still have to pretty it up but the data is pulled in
without entering it manually.

Jim N7US

 

73, Rob, NC0B

 

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 3:03 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] Compare the K3 with the IC-7300

 

 

You can sort it with Excel. I'll send instructions later. Rob, NC0B



> On Apr 10, 2016, at 2:23 PM, "dalej dj2001x@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> How true Rob.
>
> BTW, thanks for your receiver tests. It's the only one that I feel has consistency and that makes it easy at least for me to judge what is the best rig. I do wish I could sort it, but it's fine the way you have it.
>
> 73
> Dale, K9VUJ
>
> On 10, Apr 2016, at 15:06, Rob Sherwood. rob@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
>
> Look how far we have come from when the Orion broke new ground in 2003 after 20+ years of mediocre 70 dB radio, and then the K3 in 2008.
>
> Rob, NC0B
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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