Date   
K3 Power Cord Fuse access

Kenneth Waites
 

How does one get at the fuse?  I am afraid of forcing something and breaking the fuse holder.
Ken K5WK

KPA1500 remote program

N2TK, Tony
 

Any status on the Remote Program for the KPA1500?

73,

N2TK, Tony

Re: RS232 Problem

GM4OSS
 

Jason
I have K3 & MK2 set at 38400 with no issues. 
Is there anything you would like me to try that might assist you? 

Seeing that I'm local to you.😉

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason ONeill via Groups.Io <gm7vsb@...> wrote:

Joe,
Yes, when CONFIG:RS232 is set to 38400 and microHAM Router set to 38400 their are no comms, change them both to 19200 and off it goes. Nothing else connected to the microHAM, no additional cables or software other than the router.

Bob,
No Serial Y cables, I use an iLink to the SteppIR but even with that disconnected no comms at 38400. I'll check the voltages as you suggest, but it doesn't explain why it worked previously but not now. One cable is genuine microHAM DB37-EL-K23 the other homebrewed and has been fully functional for a number of years.

Confused, but learning.

73
Jason
GM7VSB / MM8Z




--
73 de Steve GM4OSS

Re: RS232 Problem

Jason ONeill <gm7vsb@...>
 

Joe,
Yes, when CONFIG:RS232 is set to 38400 and microHAM Router set to 38400 their are no comms, change them both to 19200 and off it goes. Nothing else connected to the microHAM, no additional cables or software other than the router.

Bob,
No Serial Y cables, I use an iLink to the SteppIR but even with that disconnected no comms at 38400. I'll check the voltages as you suggest, but it doesn't explain why it worked previously but not now. One cable is genuine microHAM DB37-EL-K23 the other homebrewed and has been fully functional for a number of years.

Confused, but learning.

73
Jason
GM7VSB / MM8Z

Re: RS232 Problem

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2018-07-16 10:06 PM, Jason ONeill via Groups.Io wrote:
When trying to connect to my K3 with microHAM microKEYER II it won't connect at 38400 baud, only at 19200baud. It was working previously at 38400baud.
Have you checked CONFIG:RS232 in the K3? Make sure it is set to 38400.

Also make sure you have no other software connected to microHAM USB
Device Router (CAT/2nd CAT) when configuring the data rate (CAT -> Set)

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-07-16 10:06 PM, Jason ONeill via Groups.Io wrote:
When trying to connect to my K3 with microHAM microKEYER II it won't connect
at 38400 baud, only at 19200baud. It was working previously at 38400baud.
I've added a shed load of filters, KBPF3, TXCO and an ATU recently.
Everything works fine, except the comms speed won't play with the microKEYER
II.
I have a FTDI USB to Serial cable, and I can connect with K3 Utility at
38400 and query the radio with no apparent issues.
I've swapped out the DB37 Cables, and tried a different microKEYER II with
the same results.
Any ideas what's wrong ?
73
Jason
GM7VSB

Re: RS232 Problem

Bob Wilson, N6TV
 

Try changing radio type to K3 patched or K3 patched 2.  May not help.  Power cycle of radio, microKeyer II and restart of a Router software may be required after changing baud rates.  May not help.

I did see this same behavior once.  Does the microKeyer II voltage on the TXD line (pin 3) measure 0V, 5V, -6V, -12V, +6V, +12V or some other value with the serial port closed or opened and Router queries are disabled?  Or, is pin 3 on the DE-9 wired to pin 25 on the DC-37?  If not, it's probably not a microHAM K3 cable.  A cable made for a different radio may wire TXD to a TTL pin on the DC-37 instead of to an RS-232 pin.

The K3 serial port doesn't respond properly with TTL level voltage signalling (0/+5V) at 38400 baud.  It requires RS-232 level +6/-6V (or more) even though 0/5V works fine at 19200 baud.  The P3 serial port is much less picky and works fine with either voltage level at 38400, but you don't have one.

I assume no serial Y-cables are connected for a SteppIR controller or similar.  Anything on the mkII AUX port?  It is TTL only. An RS-232 Level converter may be required as explained in the mkII manual.

73,
Bob, N6TV


On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:27 AM Jason ONeill via Groups.Io <gm7vsb=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Bob,

Thanks, all of the above have been checked and confirmed previosuly, but just did them again...

CONFIG:RS232 = 19200, Router CAT Baud Rate =19200 OK
CONFIG:RS232 = 38400, Router CAT Baud Rate =38400 not working.

All logging and utility progrms are closed, Win10 restarted, only thing running is microHAM Router, and I'm trying to see comms in the Ports tab.

CAT Communications Log looks like below....

0027060031: Log enabled, (urouter v9.0.4, micro KEYER II v6.12)
0027060031: CAT settings: "Elecraft K3", 38400 bps 8N1
0027060890: R-TX: (1) FA; (read VFO A frequency)
0027061359: U-RX: (1) <C6><C1><B8>0014<BB><F7><BC>050<E7> (?) pause exceeded 400 ms, rx buffer cleared
0027061906: R: (1) oldest tx query (FA;) discarded, waiting to answer exceeded 1000 ms
0027062906: R-TX: (1) FB; (read VFO B frequency)
0027063359: U-RX: (1) <C6><C2>00<B8><EE>426<CC>95<B8><FF> (?) pause exceeded 400 ms, rx buffer cleared
0027063937: R: (1) oldest tx query (FB;) discarded, waiting to answer exceeded 1000 ms


Comms at 19200 with the MicroHAM seems fine, but non-existant at 38400.

73,
Jason
GM7VSB / MM8Z

Re: RS232 Problem

Jason ONeill <gm7vsb@...>
 

Hi Bob,
Just to confirm there is no P3.
73,
Jason
GM7VSB / MM8Z

Re: RS232 Problem

Jason ONeill <gm7vsb@...>
 

Hi Bob,

Thanks, all of the above have been checked and confirmed previosuly, but just did them again...

CONFIG:RS232 = 19200, Router CAT Baud Rate =19200 OK
CONFIG:RS232 = 38400, Router CAT Baud Rate =38400 not working.

All logging and utility progrms are closed, Win10 restarted, only thing running is microHAM Router, and I'm trying to see comms in the Ports tab.

CAT Communications Log looks like below....

0027060031: Log enabled, (urouter v9.0.4, micro KEYER II v6.12)
0027060031: CAT settings: "Elecraft K3", 38400 bps 8N1
0027060890: R-TX: (1) FA; (read VFO A frequency)
0027061359: U-RX: (1) <C6><C1><B8>0014<BB><F7><BC>050<E7> (?) pause exceeded 400 ms, rx buffer cleared
0027061906: R: (1) oldest tx query (FA;) discarded, waiting to answer exceeded 1000 ms
0027062906: R-TX: (1) FB; (read VFO B frequency)
0027063359: U-RX: (1) <C6><C2>00<B8><EE>426<CC>95<B8><FF> (?) pause exceeded 400 ms, rx buffer cleared
0027063937: R: (1) oldest tx query (FB;) discarded, waiting to answer exceeded 1000 ms


Comms at 19200 with the MicroHAM seems fine, but non-existant at 38400.

73,
Jason
GM7VSB / MM8Z

Re: RS232 Problem

Bob Wilson, N6TV
 

Did CONFIG:RS232 get changed to 19200?  Does the K3 Utility connect at 38400 or only 19200?  Or are all logging and utility programs closed, and you're just trying to use the microHAM Router standalone to display the K3's frequency, on the Ports tab?  Is the microKeyer II connected to a K3 or to a P3?  If to a P3, is MENU:RS232 set to 19200 or 38400 in the P3?

In the Router, is the Radio Type to Elecraft K3, Elecraft K3 (patched), or Elecraft K3 (patched 2)?  Do any of them make a difference?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Jason ONeill via Groups.Io <gm7vsb@...> wrote:

When trying to connect to my K3 with microHAM microKEYER II it won’t connect at 38400 baud, only at 19200baud. It was working previously at 38400baud.

 

I’ve added a shed load of filters, KBPF3, TXCO and an ATU recently. Everything works fine, except the comms speed won’t play with the microKEYER II.

 

I have a FTDI USB to Serial cable, and I can connect with K3 Utility at 38400 and query the radio with no apparent issues.

 

I’ve swapped out the  DB37 Cables, and tried a different microKEYER II with the same results.

 

Any ideas what’s wrong ?

 

73

Jason

GM7VSB

RS232 Problem

Jason ONeill <gm7vsb@...>
 

When trying to connect to my K3 with microHAM microKEYER II it won’t connect at 38400 baud, only at 19200baud. It was working previously at 38400baud.

 

I’ve added a shed load of filters, KBPF3, TXCO and an ATU recently. Everything works fine, except the comms speed won’t play with the microKEYER II.

 

I have a FTDI USB to Serial cable, and I can connect with K3 Utility at 38400 and query the radio with no apparent issues.

 

I’ve swapped out the  DB37 Cables, and tried a different microKEYER II with the same results.

 

Any ideas what’s wrong ?

 

73

Jason

GM7VSB

RS232 Problem

Jason ONeill <gm7vsb@...>
 

When trying to connect to my K3 with microHAM microKEYER II it won’t connect at 38400 baud, only at 19200baud. It was working previously at 38400baud.

 

I’ve added a shed load of filters, KBPF3, TXCO and an ATU recently. Everything works fine, except the comms speed won’t play with the microKEYER II.

 

I have a FTDI USB to Serial cable, and I can connect with K3 Utility at 38400 and query the radio with no apparent issues.

 

I’ve swapped out the  DB37 Cables, and tried a different microKEYER II with the same results.

 

Any ideas what’s wrong ?

 

73

Jason

GM7VSB

K3s0 and HamRadioRemote.com

Burt Krain
 

 I have been unable to interface the K3s0 mini with HamRadioRemote,com.  Is there a driver that needs to be installed to gain functionality with this software?  All I get when I connect is the sound from the K3s0 speaker, but no operational controls.  Any help or documentation would be appreciated.

Re: K3 interface with other programs

Randy Farmer
 

I have converted most of my antenna and control switching to wireless remote using Green Heron Everyware. I use PstRotatorAz to interface with the GHE system using UDP data broadcasts and it works very well for me. N1MM+ can directly communicate with the GHE software. If you're using a different logger that won't do native UDP you should be able to use LP-Bridge to send radio data to PstRotatorAz and let it broadcast the UDP data. In my system I've set the UDP broadcasts from PstRotatorAz to use the same ports as N1MM+. This makes for a (mostly) seamless transition from daily logger to contest logger.

73...
Randy, W8FN

Re: K3 interface with other programs

harry latterman <harrylatterman@...>
 

I have run Win4K3Suite for well over 8 yrs now (or there abouts). The program has run WSJT-X, FT8, Log4OM, FlDigi, older version of HRD for a while and a few others that are slipping my tired brain.  It is a incredible program, fairly easy to use and support from Tom who wrote it is always there for you.  Just email him direct and you will get you problem answered.  Get the 30 day free trial and have fun.

Two side notes.  I have run Win4K3Suite with my Win10 and Win7 programs and Win8/8.1 before upgrade and it worked perfectly.  I have used it with two K3's at the same time running the 64 bit and 32 bit versions in the same Laptop. It has controlled my K3's, KX3, KX2, KPA500, KAT500, KXPA100, KXAT100.  One remarkable program. Second side note I am now running Win4IcomSuite with a IC-7300 and Win4YeasuSuite with my FTdx5000MPL.  All flawlessly.  You can't loose with the Win4 series...

73 Harry  K7ZOV

On Saturday, July 14, 2018, 4:18:40 PM MST, N2TK, Tony <tony.kaz@...> wrote:


Presently using my K3 with LP-Bridgewith Win10 Pro. I have DXBase, WSJT, N1MM+ and DXbase Bridge working together. Trying to add Green Heron Everywhere. But it wants the Virtual Com Port #1 as does WSJT. GHE won’t even start if something else is using the first virtual port.

Do other programs such as Win4K3Suite allow you to run all of these programs at the same time using virtual ports?   

Do I have to change logging programs?

Looking for recommendations to get over my frustration of not getting everything working together. Maybe it is a cockpit problem and LP-Bridge can really do this?

All programs are set up as run as administrator.

Tnx for any feedback

N2TK, Tony

Re: K3 interface with other programs

Matt Obermayer
 

Win4K3Suite does an amazing job of allowing several software platforms to run simultaneous and in sync with the radio. 

I have sdrplay, WSJT, Ham Radio deluxe and Dxlabs. It’s is allowing me to dig into the digital side of life and allows me to hunt for CW contacts using the SDRplay panadapter. 

I run VMware on a Mac to supply Windows 10 for the environment. 

Just got a KXPA100 - that too is working seemlessly. 

The only thing i cant get to work is the Panadapter in side Win4K3Suite- but - I can click inside the SDRplay panadapter and have the radio and all connected software update. 

Pretty happy with th setup. 

K3 interface with other programs

N2TK, Tony
 

Presently using my K3 with LP-Bridgewith Win10 Pro. I have DXBase, WSJT, N1MM+ and DXbase Bridge working together. Trying to add Green Heron Everywhere. But it wants the Virtual Com Port #1 as does WSJT. GHE won’t even start if something else is using the first virtual port.

Do other programs such as Win4K3Suite allow you to run all of these programs at the same time using virtual ports?   

Do I have to change logging programs?

Looking for recommendations to get over my frustration of not getting everything working together. Maybe it is a cockpit problem and LP-Bridge can really do this?

All programs are set up as run as administrator.

Tnx for any feedback

N2TK, Tony

Re: 6M Es antenna question

Mel Farrer, K6KBE
 

The "egg beater" antenna is the same idea, but with loops.  Horz polarized in the plane to the surface and circularized straight up.  We used it in mobile service in the 60-70's in 2 meter SSB.  Satellite also.  

Mel, K6KBE



From: Rob Sherwood <rob@...>
To: "Elecraft-K3@groups.io" <Elecraft-K3@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

A turnstile is what WWV is using on 25 MHz.  Rob, NC0B


On Jul 14, 2018, at 1:45 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...> wrote:

A pair of crossed folded dipoles fed together with a 4:1 balun makes for an omni directional pattern and horizontal  polarization.  Commonly known as a turnstile antenna.
A turnstile antenna, or crossed-dipole antenna,is a radio antenna consisting of a set of two identical dipole or folded dipole antennas mounted at right angles to each other and fed in phase quadrature; the two currents applied to the dipoles are 90° out of phase.  The name reflects the notion the antenna looks like a turnstile when mounted horizontally. The antenna can be used in two possible modes.   In normal mode the antenna radiates horizontally polarized radio waves perpendicular to its axis. In axial mode the antenna radiates circularly polarized radiation along its axis.
73
Bob, K4TAX

On 7/14/2018 1:20 PM, Charlie T, k3ICH wrote:
In that case, you might try a 5/8 wavelength vertical, or maybe even a co-linear,  vertical stacked array.
It would be omni-directinal, but would offer some gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

I agree Charlie that a 3 element beam would be better but all of my antennas are in the trees in a very dense HOA neighborhood.  A dipole works pretty well oriented broadside 20 degrees/ 200 degrees.  

While the second phased dipole is mechanically a pain the real question was about the angle that Es stuff favors.

73 - Mike - K9JRI







On Jul 14, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH <pincon@...> wrote:

Personally, for the little extra a second diploe would add, I don't feel it would be worth the effort.
 
For the effort to add another dipole with the supports, feed line etc.,  you may be better off using a small 3 or 4 element Yagi if you can.  Depending on your location, you may not even have to rotate it, since you'll have about a 90 degree horizontal beam width, and this will net you around +6dB of forward gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message ----- 
To: Groups IO
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

Having a ton of fun working FT8 via Es on 50.313 with both my K3s and my KX3. My antenna is a simple dipole at about 30 feet elevation.

My question regards the angle that Es signals arrive.  If I stacked another dipole at 12 feet lower the angle of maximum gain lowers significantly.  Is the preferred angle of arrival/departure on an Es signal completely random depending on the distance from the E cloud or would the stacked dipoles (Lazy H) always be better?

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI











If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com


Re: 6M Es antenna question

Rob Sherwood
 

A turnstile is what WWV is using on 25 MHz.  Rob, NC0B


On Jul 14, 2018, at 1:45 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...> wrote:

A pair of crossed folded dipoles fed together with a 4:1 balun makes for an omni directional pattern and horizontal  polarization.  Commonly known as a turnstile antenna.

A turnstile antenna, or crossed-dipole antenna,is a radio antenna consisting of a set of two identical dipole or folded dipole antennas mounted at right angles to each other and fed in phase quadrature; the two currents applied to the dipoles are 90° out of phase.  The name reflects the notion the antenna looks like a turnstile when mounted horizontally. The antenna can be used in two possible modes.   In normal mode the antenna radiates horizontally polarized radio waves perpendicular to its axis. In axial mode the antenna radiates circularly polarized radiation along its axis.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/14/2018 1:20 PM, Charlie T, k3ICH wrote:
In that case, you might try a 5/8 wavelength vertical, or maybe even a co-linear,  vertical stacked array.
It would be omni-directinal, but would offer some gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

I agree Charlie that a 3 element beam would be better but all of my antennas are in the trees in a very dense HOA neighborhood.  A dipole works pretty well oriented broadside 20 degrees/ 200 degrees.  

While the second phased dipole is mechanically a pain the real question was about the angle that Es stuff favors.

73 - Mike - K9JRI







On Jul 14, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH <pincon@...> wrote:

Personally, for the little extra a second diploe would add, I don't feel it would be worth the effort.
 
For the effort to add another dipole with the supports, feed line etc.,  you may be better off using a small 3 or 4 element Yagi if you can.  Depending on your location, you may not even have to rotate it, since you'll have about a 90 degree horizontal beam width, and this will net you around +6dB of forward gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message ----- 
To: Groups IO
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

Having a ton of fun working FT8 via Es on 50.313 with both my K3s and my KX3. My antenna is a simple dipole at about 30 feet elevation.

My question regards the angle that Es signals arrive.  If I stacked another dipole at 12 feet lower the angle of maximum gain lowers significantly.  Is the preferred angle of arrival/departure on an Es signal completely random depending on the distance from the E cloud or would the stacked dipoles (Lazy H) always be better?

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI











If this email is spam, report it to www.OnlyMyEmail.com

Re: 6M Es antenna question

Rick Bates, NK7I
 

With a recent opening, I ran a test using PSKReporter as the data source.

I have a 6M halo (square shaped half wave dipole, folded back on itself, configured horizontally), the 6M J pole and the 160M inverted L antenna (native match ~3.4:1, used a tuner).  Essentially all are omni configured.  That's as level a playing field as I managed.

I sent out some CQ on FT8 (100 watts), noted where I was heard.

Halo, not bad, a few over a dozen hits.
J Pole, better, double the numbers
Inverted L was the best of the three , about 30 hits (likely due to gain from length AND both vertical and horizontal factors); BUT some of the original hit spots didn't hear me...  I'll put that off to a cloud shift, it's not consistent at my latitude (Idaho, almost Canada).

I was a paid fire line captain once upon a time.  I learned: every time you make a choice, you eliminate options.  Having options (even under HOA oppression) is always a better plan.  Having options kept one alive.

The point is, play around.  No two days on E are the same, you don't always know where the cloud is... be flexible.

Rick nhc


On 7/14/2018 1:06 PM, Michael Blake via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks Rick.  I have not tried or considered any vertical antennas as my understanding is that there is very little polarity shift via Es and that most of the signals start out as horizontally polarized signals.  Random polarity on F layer propagation but not so on E layer propagation.  It is also my understanding the Es signals come in at a very low angle which was the key factor in looking at the stacked dipoles.

My understanding might be all wet though which might make a vertical a good choice.

73 - Mike - K9JRI





On Jul 14, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Rick WA6NHC <wa6nhc@...> wrote:

Or a J Pole (if you can avoid proximity to it, they're a mite picky and require a coax balun at the antenna feed).

With the cost of copper, price is variable but use 3/4" not half inch.  It's much more stable in winds.

Rick nhc


On 7/14/2018 11:20 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH wrote:
In that case, you might try a 5/8 wavelength vertical, or maybe even a co-linear,  vertical stacked array.
It would be omni-directinal, but would offer some gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

I agree Charlie that a 3 element beam would be better but all of my antennas are in the trees in a very dense HOA neighborhood.  A dipole works pretty well oriented broadside 20 degrees/ 200 degrees.  

While the second phased dipole is mechanically a pain the real question was about the angle that Es stuff favors.

73 - Mike - K9JRI







On Jul 14, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH <pincon@...> wrote:

Personally, for the little extra a second diploe would add, I don't feel it would be worth the effort.
 
For the effort to add another dipole with the supports, feed line etc.,  you may be better off using a small 3 or 4 element Yagi if you can.  Depending on your location, you may not even have to rotate it, since you'll have about a 90 degree horizontal beam width, and this will net you around +6dB of forward gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

Having a ton of fun working FT8 via Es on 50.313 with both my K3s and my KX3. My antenna is a simple dipole at about 30 feet elevation.

My question regards the angle that Es signals arrive.  If I stacked another dipole at 12 feet lower the angle of maximum gain lowers significantly.  Is the preferred angle of arrival/departure on an Es signal completely random depending on the distance from the E cloud or would the stacked dipoles (Lazy H) always be better?

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI











Re: 6M Es antenna question

Michael Blake <k9jri@...>
 

Thanks Rick.  I have not tried or considered any vertical antennas as my understanding is that there is very little polarity shift via Es and that most of the signals start out as horizontally polarized signals.  Random polarity on F layer propagation but not so on E layer propagation.  It is also my understanding the Es signals come in at a very low angle which was the key factor in looking at the stacked dipoles.

My understanding might be all wet though which might make a vertical a good choice.

73 - Mike - K9JRI





On Jul 14, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Rick WA6NHC <wa6nhc@...> wrote:

Or a J Pole (if you can avoid proximity to it, they're a mite picky and require a coax balun at the antenna feed).

With the cost of copper, price is variable but use 3/4" not half inch.  It's much more stable in winds.

Rick nhc


On 7/14/2018 11:20 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH wrote:
In that case, you might try a 5/8 wavelength vertical, or maybe even a co-linear,  vertical stacked array.
It would be omni-directinal, but would offer some gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

I agree Charlie that a 3 element beam would be better but all of my antennas are in the trees in a very dense HOA neighborhood.  A dipole works pretty well oriented broadside 20 degrees/ 200 degrees.  

While the second phased dipole is mechanically a pain the real question was about the angle that Es stuff favors.

73 - Mike - K9JRI







On Jul 14, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Charlie T, k3ICH <pincon@...> wrote:

Personally, for the little extra a second diploe would add, I don't feel it would be worth the effort.
 
For the effort to add another dipole with the supports, feed line etc.,  you may be better off using a small 3 or 4 element Yagi if you can.  Depending on your location, you may not even have to rotate it, since you'll have about a 90 degree horizontal beam width, and this will net you around +6dB of forward gain.
 
73, Charlie k3ICH
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft-K3] 6M Es antenna question

Having a ton of fun working FT8 via Es on 50.313 with both my K3s and my KX3. My antenna is a simple dipole at about 30 feet elevation.

My question regards the angle that Es signals arrive.  If I stacked another dipole at 12 feet lower the angle of maximum gain lowers significantly.  Is the preferred angle of arrival/departure on an Es signal completely random depending on the distance from the E cloud or would the stacked dipoles (Lazy H) always be better?

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI