Date   

Re: Good news... or bad?

Julian <julian@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, Thom LaCosta <lacosta@...> wrote:

I looked at the deposit as a participatory activity on my part. The
beta
testers are doing their thing, and those of us that ordered in the
first round
not only confirmed that the Aptos crew had a good idea, but the
money helps them
get it out the door.

As far as asking for a concession...perhaps you can develop a so
many dollars
per day plan...and then suggest that to Elecraft.

I think that anyone ordering a first run product that is scuh a radical
departure from the norm should not be surprized is there is a delay.
Hear hear, Thom. This is not some faceless mega-corporation we are
talking about but a small company, run by hams, for hams. No doubt
Wayne and Eric could have sold out to a big concern and made a
fortune, or gone for an IPO and luxuriate in plush offices while the
hired staff do all the work. Instead, they have chosen to keep it to
themselves and work extremely hard. We should be willing to cut them
some slack because of this, if necessary.

Because of the "family business" feel of Elecraft, many of us who have
been users of their products for a long time feel a bit like part of
the family. Plunking some money down was something I was happy to do
to get in the first run, but it was also a vote of confidence, and
also in realisation that to raise the startup costs commercially would
cost more, which would inevitably be passed to us the buyers anyway.

I'm quite happy for Elecraft to have a small interest free loan for a
couple of months to help get the K3 out the door. Nor am I going to
moan that it has cost me more because the dollar has weakened still
further against the pound since they took my deposit. I'm not going to
complain if the shipping date slips a couple of weeks - this is a risk
I knew I was taking, and it's not as if it is going to cause me any
actual hardship. And I'm not going to complain if there are a few
things that don't work quite right when the radio finally does arrive,
because I know that they are doing their best to get it right before
it ships and will continue to do so afterwards.

Those who want to be 100% sure of what the radio will do and when they
will receive it should have waited until Elecraft is in a position to
meet those requirements. Nobody forced them to pay a deposit.

Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham Directory: www.ham-directory.com


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Good news... or bad?

Thom LaCosta <lacosta@...>
 

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Julian wrote:


Hear hear, Thom. This is not some faceless mega-corporation we are
talking about but a small company, run by hams, for hams. No doubt
Wayne and Eric could have sold out to a big concern and made a
fortune, or gone for an IPO and luxuriate in plush offices while the
hired staff do all the work. Instead, they have chosen to keep it to
themselves and work extremely hard. We should be willing to cut them
some slack because of this, if necessary.
<snip>

Those who want to be 100% sure of what the radio will do and when they
will receive it should have waited until Elecraft is in a position to
meet those requirements. Nobody forced them to pay a deposit.
Well said.

I suspect the shipping date has slipped/will slip. And as it does, I know that the Aptos Crew is working to have a superior product in our hands. So, I suspect I'll have a little more time to re-arrange the shack, get a better antenna up, and all sorts of things.

I might even setup am IRC Channel for K3 users....I have some up for QRP and Drake....now and again I have some chats with other users...Quite a few times
I used to to get feedback as I was working on the super-secret, super-inefficient, try not to electrocute the cat indoor antenna.

73,Thom-k3hrn
www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,Drake Web Ring,
QRP IRC channel, Drake IRC Channel, Elecraft Owners Database
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ *** Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Good news... or bad?

Toby Deinhardt
 

Hallo,

I am one of the people who sent their order to Elecraft within the first 24 or
so hours after the announcement, and also I prepaid.

I see no reason to be worried that the shipping date has slipped or will slip.
According to Eric's last shipping status update, they are still on schedule and
still have ten days to go.

OTOH, if Elecraft feels they need a couple of extra weeks to perfect the radio,
then I'm all for them taking the extra time.

vy 73 de de toby

PS: Nonetheless I wish I could already be studying the manuals... ;-)


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Good news... or bad?

Simon Brown <simon.brown@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian" <julian@g4ilo.com>

Those who want to be 100% sure of what the radio will do and when they
will receive it should have waited until Elecraft is in a position to
meet those requirements. Nobody forced them to pay a deposit.
I agree 100% - having lived my life shipping software products which are notorious for last-minute hitches (and the K3 has a LOT of software inside) I am very happy to wait until the end of August or even September if it means a less stressed-out Elecraft crew shipping a product they are happier with.

Simon HB9DRV


Chat Room

Ian J Maude <ian@...>
 

Hi all,
Please feel free if you wish to use the following address for K3 related chat. There is a server password of sysopok on it.

irc.pa4ab.net 6667

Channel #K3

Ian

--
Ian J Maude G0VGS
SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster
Member of RSGB, ARRL, GQRP
K2 #4044 | K3 #?


K3 preliminary Specs

n6jw
 

Well, here is the first part of what we are all waiting for. I will
NOT be bothering Elecraft with questions (as per Wayne's request), but
discussion here is quite appropriate.

73

John, N6JW

-----------------

wayne burdick n6kr at elecraft.com
Fri Jul 20 16:33:22 EDT 2007

* Previous message: [Elecraft] Finger Dimple For Sale ;-)
* Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

On our K3 page, you'll now find a link to a .pdf version of the K3's
preliminary specs. We'll add an HTML version, too, probably next week.
Any of these specs may change pending further testing or design
changes.

PLEASE don't call or e-mail with questions about the specs. We'll add
or update specs as time permits. Discussion about the specs is fine, of
course and we'll be diligently reading the reflector. But I'd like to
ask in advance that any *arguments* about specs be taken off-line, so
Eric (our reflector cop) doesn't have to put the hammer down :)

Comment about RX specs:

Receive dynamic range (IMDDR3) is shown for 5 to 20 kHz offsets at
present, with the 400-Hz INRAD filter. We're trying to be conservative,
because testing organizations may get slightly different results due to
variations in equipment and procedures. Our own tests, conducted at
three separate locations, consistently show 102 to 105 dB at 5 kHz. We
also didn't list 2 kHz offset performance yet, because we're carefully
characterizing all filters. Typically, we're seeing low to mid 90's on
all filters. (Measuring the K3's dynamic range has been a challenge
because it's higher than anything we've dealt with before. We've had to
beef up our test gear to handle it.)

Again, please, NO phone calls or e-mails about specs -- this will just
slow down the engineering and support staff. We're dealing with many
details right about now, as you can imagine.

Thanks!

73,
Wayne
N6KR


K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

Simon Brown <simon.brown@...>
 

Elecraft: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_specs_072007.pdf

OrionII: http://radio.tentec.com/Amateur/Transceivers/TT565

Interesting - IMD3 dynamic range - The filter used in the Orion is not stated (or I didn't see it).

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "bill_w4zv" <w0zv@yahoo.com>


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

Simon Brown <simon.brown@...>
 

And here's the Sherwood table: http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>


Elecraft: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_specs_072007.pdf
OrionII: http://radio.tentec.com/Amateur/Transceivers/TT565


Re: K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@...> wrote:

http://radio.tentec.com/Amateur/Transceivers/TT565

Interesting - IMD3 dynamic range - The filter used in the Orion is not
stated (or I didn't see it).
Simon, ARRL always measures IMD3 with any 500 Hz optional filters
installed. For some reason, either due to measurement technique or
equipment differences, Ten-Tec's IMD3 specs for both Orion and Orion
II have always been optimistic by 6 to 8 dB. IMD3 performance at 2
kHz is typically 92 dB for Orion and 95 dB for Orion II, as measured
by ARRL, Sherwood Engineering, RSGB (G3SJX in Radcom Magazine) and
W8JI. Elecraft may have the same problem but we won't know until one
of the independent testers posts some results.

73, Bill


Re: K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

Even if the K3's IMD3 only equals Orion it will still be "good enough"
(i.e. excellent...as Orion is). In my opinion the real differentiator
between the two rigs boil down to be ergonomics and firmware (plus the
fact that the K3 has Sub RX performance equal to the Main RX, which is
a major weakness of Orion).

73, Bill


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3 preliminary Specs

Thom LaCosta <lacosta@...>
 

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, CR wrote:


I wonder what signal generators Elecraft uses to make its
measurements? I shudder just thinking about the costs of obtaining 2
new generators with low enough phase noise performance to make these
measurements especially at 2khz.
That's one reason the equipment rental business is healthy (g)

73,Thom-k3hrn
www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,Drake Web Ring,
QRP IRC channel, Drake IRC Channel, Elecraft Owners Database
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ *** Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month


K3 IRC

Thom LaCosta <lacosta@...>
 

I've created an IRC channel for K3 folks....one of the plusses is that you don't need an IRC client to access it. There's a web based access at

http://www.zerobeat.net/qrp/k3chat.html

if you do have an irc client, you can reach the channel at

irc.icq.com - /join #k3

IRC is a lot like the bands...if no one is logged on, there is no activity. Unlike radio, if someone is there, you'll see them.

Enjoy

73,Thom-k3hrn
www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,Drake Web Ring,
QRP IRC channel, Drake IRC Channel, Elecraft Owners Database
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ *** Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month


Re: K3 preliminary Specs

N1EU <barry.n1eu@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "CR" <vk3he@...> wrote:

The IMD Dynamic range number is fantastic. If like the Orion the IMD
dynamic range does not change much at 2khz then theres little doubt
that the K3 will be the best performing radio on the market.
Actually, Wayne mentioned
(http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-July/071030.html) a
10dB falloff in IMD from 5Khz to 2Khz, which would bring it in about
the same as the Orion I/II at 2Khz.

73,
Barry N1EU


Re: K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

n7ua <n7ua@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "bill_w4zv" <w0zv@...> wrote:

Even if the K3's IMD3 only equals Orion it will still be "good enough"
(i.e. excellent...as Orion is). In my opinion the real differentiator
between the two rigs boil down to be ergonomics and firmware (plus the
fact that the K3 has Sub RX performance equal to the Main RX, which is
a major weakness of Orion).

73, Bill
So far the K-3 looks good. The spec I would like to see now is phase
noise. The K2 was limited by phase noise (according to the Sherwood
Measurements) with otherwise a very strong front end. I hope the K-3
is as good as the Orion, which is very good in phase noise
performance. Bob N7UA


Re: K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "n7ua" <n7ua@...> wrote:

So far the K-3 looks good. The spec I would like to see now is phase
noise. The K2 was limited by phase noise (according to the Sherwood
Measurements) with otherwise a very strong front end. I hope the K-3
is as good as the Orion, which is very good in phase noise
performance. Bob N7UA
Bob, I've seen two different comments on phase noise. One said it was
at least 10 dB better and the other said something like 15-20 dB
better. Someone asked if that was -140 dBC and whichever person
responded (don't remember if Eric or Wayne or KI6WX) said they did not
want to be pinned down at this time. KI6WX apparently designed the
synthesizer and I believe he is the one who said it was at least 10 dB
better than the K2. You might search phase noise on the main Elecraft
reflector and find the actual comments, but I believe we will be
pleasantly surprised.

73, Bill


Phase Noise Comments

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

Bob here are some comments by KI6WX on phase noise:

http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&;m=117778876516891&w=2
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&;m=117798482609318&w=2
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&;m=117778132307209&w=2
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&;m=117778132307209&w=2


Re: K3 Specifications (.pdf) posted on Elecraft website <eom>

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "CR" <vk3he@...> wrote:

I agree with you, its an excellent result for the K3. I would rather
own and operate a radio where the K3 sits on the performance table,
rather than have something as poor as a FT2000 thinking that it is
superior regardless of what the numbers say.
Craig you prompted me to go read the FT-2000 list. I had not seen Rob
Sherwood's recent measurements. Here are the key results for anyone
who has not seen them yet (not yet on his website but will be added soon):

Dynamic Range 20 kHz 6k roofing 90 dB
Dynamic Range 20 kHz 3k roofing 81 dB
Dynamic Range 2 kHz 6k roofing 61 dB
Dynamic Range 2 kHz 3k roofing 63 dB

Blocking above noise floor at 100 kHz spacing, AGC On 120 dB

Phase noise (normalized) at 10 kHz spacing: 122 dBc

Noise floor, SSB bandwidth 14 MHz, Preamp Off -117 dBm
Noise floor, SSB bandwidth 14 MHz, Preamp 1 On -124 dBm
Noise floor, SSB bandwidth 14 MHz, Preamp 2 On -134 dBm

These results are generally consistent with previous measurements by
Inrad (W2VJN) and ARRL. There is surely some serious arm-waving going
on trying to justify why these results are "superior regardless of
what the numbers say"! :-) What a hoot to read.

73, Bill


(No subject)

Jos´┐Ż Nunes
 


K3 Shipping Status Update

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
 

Our field testers are a very diligent and experienced bunch. They've
been working hard (on your behalf, as well as theirs) to exercise
every possible K3 feature and uncover opportunities for refinement.

The firmware development team (Wayne, N6KR, and Lyle, KK7P) has been
putting in very long hours to keep up, and we've made some minor
component changes as well. As a result, important features like FSK
mode, text decode/display, flexible VOX control, KRC2 support and many
others are being optimized under real-world conditions. We've also
verified our performance on multiple K3s both in the lab and on the
air. The field testers have really pounded on the user interface, and
the tweaking we've done has made the radio both easier to use and more
versatile.

The same engineers who are doing firmware and hardware development are
also heavily involved in completing the user documentation. This is
why we haven't been able to release a draft owner's manual or assembly
manual. We've got a lot of catching up to do on these tasks, so we're
revising our target shipping date for the first K3 production run to
start at the end of August.

K3 materials purchasing and manufacturing is well underway and our
staff has been working hard to make sure all of the key K3 components
arrive in Aptos at the right time. This is a tremendous task, as you
might imagine, and they have done an excellent job hunting down every
problem supplier and component. Our production staff will use the
extra time to build inventory and refine our automated K3 testing.
This will allow us to minimize any delay to the second and later
production runs. Our goal is to ship a stable, and high quality,
product starting with the first one out the door. We think you will be
pleased with our results.

We appreciate your patience as we transition into full K3 production.
We'll keep you informed of our progress, and look forward to your
feedback on the manuals as they near completion. We've already had
many offers to proofread -- thanks!

73,
Wayne, N6KR
Eric, WA6HHQ

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