Date   

P3 Panadapters now shipping (as of 7/30)

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
 

We started shipping the first P3s last Friday, 7/30. Another large block shipped today.

We are now notifying, confirming and shipping P3 orders placed on April 15th. This is a very large group (the 1st day we took orders) and we will be working our way through notifying everyone and shipping those P3s this week and possibly early next week.

Watch the Elecraft shipping status page:
http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_shipping_status.htm
for regular updates on which order dates we are currently shipping.

It will take 5-6 weeks to ship the large backlog of P3 orders. New P3 orders received now will ship mid September.

73, Eric WA6HHQ


OT: 40m and Radio China

ab2tc
 

Hi all,

OT, but 40m is quite lively this early night. Some good EU signals. But the monstrously wide (20kHz) Radio China International signal on 7210 ruins some of the fun. They must have a very effective 10kHz audio LP filter as the edges beyond +/- 10kHz are steep indeed (LP-PAN observations).

AB2TC - Knut


Re: [Elecraft_K3] P3 User Manual and Question

Irwin Darack
 

Just saw the post.

 

Thanks, Irwin KD3TB

 

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:54 PM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] P3 User Manual and Question

 

 


Answers to both of your questions have been posted/discussed
multiple times on both Elecraft lists.

> I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website
> this morning. Has it been posted?

The P3 manual is on the Elecraft ftp site and not linked from the
manuals/documentation page at www.elecraft.com. Simply use
ftp://ftp.elecraft.com and look in the P3 directory.

> Also at Dayton, I seem to remember that we may need to make a
> modification to our K3's to increase the output level from some of
> the older K3's for the P3. I already have the kXV3 board installed.
> My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering if I need to make this
> change and what it is ?

You are asking about the "IF Output Buffer Gain Modification." The
information on the Elecraft web site says that modification is in
all units starting with RF board Rev H3. You will need to look at
your RF board to determine its rev level.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/2/2010 4:43 PM, KD3TB wrote:
> I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website
> this morning. Has it been posted? Also at Dayton, I seem to remember
> that we may need to make a modification to our K3's to increase the
> output level from some of the older K3's for the P3. I already have
> the kXV3 board installed. My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering
> if I need to make this change and what it is ?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Irwin Darack - KD3TB
>
>
>
>


Re: [Elecraft_K3] P3 User Manual and Question

Dick Dievendorff <dieven@...>
 

The P3 User manual was placed on the Elecraft web site earlier today. Here’s a direct URL:  http://www.elecraft.com/manual/P3_Owner%27s_Manual_Rev_A2.pdf

 

The owner’s manual has a pointer to the desired modification, which is also here:  http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/IF_Output_Buffer_Gain_Mod_Rev_A.pdf

 

The modification is a one-resistor change on the K3 RF board.

 

73 de Dick, K6KR

 

 

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...] On Behalf Of KD3TB
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:43 PM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] P3 User Manual and Question

 

 

I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website this morning. Has it been posted?  Also at Dayton, I seem to remember that we may need to make a modification to our K3’s to increase the output level from some of the older K3’s for the P3.  I already have the kXV3 board installed. My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering if I need to make this change and what it is ?

 

Thanks,   Irwin Darack - KD3TB

 


Re: [Elecraft_K3] P3 User Manual and Question

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Answers to both of your questions have been posted/discussed
multiple times on both Elecraft lists.

I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website
this morning. Has it been posted?
The P3 manual is on the Elecraft ftp site and not linked from the
manuals/documentation page at www.elecraft.com. Simply use
ftp://ftp.elecraft.com and look in the P3 directory.

Also at Dayton, I seem to remember that we may need to make a
modification to our K3's to increase the output level from some of
the older K3's for the P3. I already have the kXV3 board installed.
My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering if I need to make this
change and what it is ?
You are asking about the "IF Output Buffer Gain Modification." The
information on the Elecraft web site says that modification is in
all units starting with RF board Rev H3. You will need to look at
your RF board to determine its rev level.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/2/2010 4:43 PM, KD3TB wrote:
I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website
this morning. Has it been posted? Also at Dayton, I seem to remember
that we may need to make a modification to our K3's to increase the
output level from some of the older K3's for the P3. I already have
the kXV3 board installed. My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering
if I need to make this change and what it is ?



Thanks, Irwin Darack - KD3TB




P3 User Manual and Question

Irwin Darack
 

I could not find a copy of the P3 User Manual on the Elecraft Website this morning. Has it been posted?  Also at Dayton, I seem to remember that we may need to make a modification to our K3’s to increase the output level from some of the older K3’s for the P3.  I already have the kXV3 board installed. My serial number is 2999 and I am wondering if I need to make this change and what it is ?

 

Thanks,   Irwin Darack - KD3TB

 


k3 on 2m

vk4cro <vk4cro@...>
 

hi to all ,I run a k3 sn 1498 with a xv144 to a vk4kdd 300w amplifier
to a 14 el yagi at about 70 ft.
SSB is the dx mode here in vk and my best contact this summer was 1845 km. and regularly work 5-600 km each morning.
Is there anyone else in the group doing similar?
regards Ron vk4cro in qg62nl


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

mikerodgerske5gbc
 

Al, thanks for that tip. Is there anything thare that's not in the mag?
I'll be checking it out. 

Happy QSO'ing.       Mike R

On Jul 31, 2010, at 9:43 PM, ajsoenke@... wrote:

 

I'd also suggest a monthly mag. The best part is it's very well done and it's free! It's called World Radio News, available on the CQ web page. It's a little light on the real deep tech stuff, but Kurt will teach you more about antennas ( and offer sources for the PhD version ). In addition to the tech touch there is Johnny Johnston's Q&A Column that focuses on very real FCC and rules issues. Other columns get into more socially oriented subjects that go a long way to introducing the new ham to on-the-air (operating) topics. Plenty of other areas and lots of ads that can be informative and helpful. Propagation topics and tutorials are top notch. check it out on the Web. Look at http://www.cq-amateur-radio.com   Click on WorldRadio online.  ( No, I don't work for the publisher, but I have enjoyed reading every issue since it was started over 30 years ago )

Al, WA6VNN





-----Original Message-----
From: raindog3333 yahoo.com>
To: Elecraft_K3 yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 31, 2010 11:22 am
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

 
All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.



Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Rig comparisons?

Hector Padron <ad4c2006@...>
 

No problem Larry and if you be interested to hear how well mine sound just with the MH-2 handmic, I am pretty active on 40M every night,73
 
AD4C
 


 

On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:41 PM, lsluiter1 <lsluiter1@...> wrote:

Thank you Hector for your advice! It is invaluable! 73, Larry KF8HW


--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Hector Padron wrote:
>
> *My two cents:*
> *I have always owned two radios since I started in hamradio in 1991, one as
> main station,the other as a backup radio.*
> *My last couple were the TT Orion and the 756Pro III,among them after doing
> many off air test always with same antenna,without a doubt the Orion beats
> down the ProIII.*
> *Having those two wonderful radios, my best friend in Miami AD4Z put
> together his K3 and gave it to me the first week to play with  and compared
> it with what I had.*
> *After a week using it almost 8 hours a day and comparing it with the
> Orion,it was clear that the K3 was better in performance receiver, by the
> time, that was 3 years ago,the K3 still had some problems on TX and I
> decided to wait one more year until they fixed all the software/hardware
> problems which they did, then I decided to buy me a fully loaded already
> assembled K3 and I can tell now after one year and 8 months using it daily
> either on SSB and CW that this is the best radio I have ever
> owned,extremenly low noise RX,extremenly selective RX,very good audio
> quality either on SSB and CW.More features than what I need, the great
> possibility to upgrade the FW version from the company website, f**riendly
> user,at least for me,small size,easy to transport,I have taken it already to
> a dxpedition and to a field day and many more operation advantages as you
> all know.*
> *Only "defect" that I find so far is the lack of good looking as a ProIII or
> a FT-2K,but after that time using it I see it pretty for me.*
> *Needless to say its ranked # 1 in the world for performance so far.There
> are new radios in the field now,the FT-5000 and soon the TS-590 and rumors
> are that they are or maybe they will be a strong close competitors with our
> K3's but I will only believe it when our good tester Mr Sherwood tell us the
> truth.*
> *73 to all and enjoy the K3 as much as I am enjoying mine.*
> *Hector*
> *AD4C*
>
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Rob Sherwood wrote:
>
> > I haven't done exactly what you asked, but I do run three CW contests each
> > year on 160 meters.  I have my analog reference rig, and then some other rig
> > that I run half the time. Two operating positions, two 1.5 kW linears and
> > the same antenna.  So I run about 10 hours on one and 10 hours on the other,
> > switching every hour or two.  There are definite difference, and often not
> > what I was expecting.  Some of the DSP rigs have lots of what I call
> > "contest fatigue" from digital artifacts, AGC issues, audio distortion that
> > is tiring, differences in how clean the break-in operates, differences in
> > ergonomics and east of adjustments, etc.  The only transceiver in the past
> > three years that has played so well I actually used it more than the
> > reference rig was the K3.  73, Rob, NC0B
> >
> > >>> "sgi1024687" 7/26/2010 6:51 pm >>>
> > Hi all. After reading several yahoo groups over the last 2 years now, I
> > think I realize what has been missing from all of the posts. Has anyone ran
> > brand "x" against brand "y", same antenna, same station on the other end,
> > and actually recorded it so we all could see and hear it? Don't flame me, I
> > have extensive experience but I am thinking
> > numbers are one thing, and sound quality, ergonimics, ease of use is
> > another. Don't take this wrong, but my guess is that most of the "swayers"
> > in any of these groups have not done this. I get a kick out of the spin put
> > on by some of these arm twisters. I am looking for a new HF rig. The old TR7
> > is still running well and I still can repair it when it dies. It's
> > sentimental (I live in Miamisburg). I just can't get off the fence by
> > reading "opinions" at this point. But going to Dayton every year since 1982
> > sure makes it tough! Oh well, I just may try to start the above testing and
> > share the results with you. Think of it; purchasing a rig based on a youtube
> > video? Not that far fetched when you realize some do the same based on words
> > alone. Thanks, Steve N8DNG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If this email is spam, report it here:
> >
> > http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpam&Id=ODExMjI6MTEyODM3MzY0NDpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> God bless America
>




------------------------------------

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Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

ajsoenke@...
 

I'd also suggest a monthly mag. The best part is it's very well done and it's free! It's called World Radio News, available on the CQ web page. It's a little light on the real deep tech stuff, but Kurt will teach you more about antennas ( and offer sources for the PhD version ). In addition to the tech touch there is Johnny Johnston's Q&A Column that focuses on very real FCC and rules issues. Other columns get into more socially oriented subjects that go a long way to introducing the new ham to on-the-air (operating) topics. Plenty of other areas and lots of ads that can be informative and helpful. Propagation topics and tutorials are top notch. check it out on the Web. Look at http://www.cq-amateur-radio.com   Click on WorldRadio online.  ( No, I don't work for the publisher, but I have enjoyed reading every issue since it was started over 30 years ago )

Al, WA6VNN




-----Original Message-----
From: raindog3333
To: Elecraft_K3
Sent: Sat, Jul 31, 2010 11:22 am
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

 
All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

Al N1AL
 

The ARRL Handbook has very wide coverage of most aspects of amateur
radio. It doesn't really cover anything in great depth but it has
enough information to get you started and most chapters have a
bibliography if you want to delve deeper.

Alan N1AL

On Sat, 2010-07-31 at 18:22 +0000, raindog3333 wrote:

All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall
knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book
recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good
antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a
young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of
amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info
as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.





Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

Merv Schweigert <k9fd@...>
 

QST is a good magazine and also CQ is worth while,  as far as antenna books
there are many,  probably one that covers every facet is the ARRL antenna
handbook,  you can pick up used ones on ebay for good prices or spring for a
new one from ARRL,   they have not changed a lot on the past few years,
covers all the basic antenna info from the ground up to big beams etc. 
If you get into 160 meter operation then the "bible" is the ON4UN low band book
also available from ARRL,  but thats only good if your interested in 160,80,40
operation.  
The great thing is there are books to cover any aspect of ham radio,  most all are
worth reading and full of info,   I watch e-bay for used books and you can pick
them up cheap and create a large library.   For general Ham use the ARRL
handbook is essential,  again a couple years old is just as good as a new one
Welcome and good luck.   73 Merv K9FD  /  KH7C

 

All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.



Re: Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

ab2tc
 

Agree that ARRL membership and the QST magazine is a must. I used to subscribe to CQ magazine also, but discontinued it several years ago as I found very little material of interest. The pages of QST will also give you many answers to your other question as to what books to buy. ARRL has many good books and they are frequently advertised. The British counterpart RSGB also has many good books also advertised in QST. So starting with QST will give you lots of ideas.

AB2TC - Knut

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Robert C. Crawford" <k8vfv@...> wrote:

I would suggest QST from the ARRL and CQ magazine.


Bob
KN8VFV - 12 July 1960, K8VFV since 1961
Member of: 10-X, CCA & SEMDXA (Pres.)
Life member: ARRL & QCWA
9 Band DXCC, 6 Band WAS, 50 MHz VUCC (363)
DXCC Honor Roll #1 Mixed and Phone, 5BWAZ #179
Listening 145.700 MHz
Web Site - http://www.k8vfv.com
Email - K8VFV at ARRL dot NET
In GOD we trust
Outgoing email checked by MSE

-----Original Message-----
From: raindog3333 [mailto:raindog3333@...]
Sent: Saturday, 31 July, 2010 2:23 PM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge


All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall
knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book
recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna
book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young
sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio
people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a
K3.

Thanks in advance.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

mikerodgerske5gbc
 

One idea is there's always bundles for sale at the hamfests. 

Happy QSO'ing.       Mike R

On Jul 31, 2010, at 1:22 PM, "raindog3333" <raindog3333@...> wrote:

 

All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.



Re: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

Robert C. Crawford
 

I would suggest QST from the ARRL and CQ magazine.


Bob
KN8VFV - 12 July 1960, K8VFV since 1961
Member of: 10-X, CCA & SEMDXA (Pres.)
Life member: ARRL & QCWA
9 Band DXCC, 6 Band WAS, 50 MHz VUCC (363)
DXCC Honor Roll #1 Mixed and Phone, 5BWAZ #179
Listening 145.700 MHz
Web Site - http://www.k8vfv.com
Email - K8VFV at ARRL dot NET
In GOD we trust
Outgoing email checked by MSE

-----Original Message-----
From: raindog3333 [mailto:raindog3333@...]
Sent: Saturday, 31 July, 2010 2:23 PM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge


All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall
knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book
recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna
book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young
sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio
people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a
K3.

Thanks in advance.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Magazines & Books to Increase Amateur Radio Knowledge

raindog3333 <raindog3333@...>
 

All,
What subscriptions would you recommend to increase a new ham's overall knowledge? I am considering ARRL or QST magazines, etc. Book recommendations would also be considered as well, especially a good antenna book.

Although I am new to ham and now have a General ticket, I am not a young sprout...but am continually impressed with the willingness of amateur radio people to help others. This group provides valuable info as I plan to get a K3.

Thanks in advance.


Re: Comparison between the K3 and the Ten Tec Orion 2

lsluiter1
 

Rob, thank you so much for your insights - this is helping to shape my decision on what to do. I agree on the fatigue with the O2 when the sharp shirts are in use - I have noticed that a bit too. Sure is nice to null out adjacent channel interference tho! Appreciate your time! Larry KF8HW

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Rob Sherwood" <rob@...> wrote:

I ran the W1BB 160 meter CW contest in December with the Orion II and the CQ 160 meter CW contest in January with the K3 (in addition to the reference IC-781 in each case). Neither the Orion II nor the K3 overloaded, and I had a full complement of CW-bandwidth roofing filters. Both were hooked up to an Alpha 89 PIN diode QSK amp. (Just an side note, I had the external tuning pod on the Orion II since I tend to run my knuckles into the small knobs near the main tuning knob of the Orion II.)

From the standpoint of handling strong adjacent-channel QRM, both performed very well, as one would expect since the lab numbers are virtually the same. I did back off the AGC threshold of the Orion II since on 160 meters there is no need for the AGC reacting to band noise. The big difference was the sound of the band noise on the Orion II. That was the reason for backing off the AGC threshold in a futile attempt at reducing the fatigue of the sound of the band noise. While the QRM was staggering in both contests, the band noise was really annoying on the Orion II, virtually non-existent on the analog IC-781, and and really a non-issue on the K3 (the following month).

When I talked to Jack Burchfield at T-T about this observations, he said another ham had also complained of the same problem recently. He wondered if the very sharp skirts of the Orion II were slope detecting the band noise and making it much worse. I have no idea if that was the real explanation, but the sound of noise on weak signals was really fatiguing.

I worked the Orion II for several hours Friday night, and when I took a break for dinner, I mentioned to my XYL that the band was sure noisy and it was really frying my ears. Then I switched to the analog rig, and it was a totally different band. Sure the was QRM wall to wall, but the hollow annoying noise on weak signals just wasn't there.

On the other hand, when I ran the CQ 160 contest, the K3 was so good, I used it most of the time, leaving the analog rig the forgotten sibling. Was this a perfect test since one was in December and one was in January? No, but in both cases I went back and forth between the "test" rig and the reference rig. That's why I use the analog rig as the reference since it is the constant in the on-air comparisons.

The next question would be, would the same annoying band noise sound be there on 20 meters? I assume it would be similar on 80 and possibly 40 meters, but I have no idea on 20, 15 or 10 meters. I would really like some input from others who have used an Orion II on the low bands. Without having gone back and forth between the Orion II and another totally different radio, I am sure I would never have known that there was such a difference in how the band noise sounds in different brands or models of product.

73, Rob, NC0B

"lsluiter1" <lsluiter1@...> 7/29/2010 1:43 pm >>>
Could those out there who have owned a TT Orion 2 comment on your personal as well as professional observations on the K3 vs. the Orion 2? I have an O2 and due to space considerations I am contemplating a switch to a K3. I like the pan display the Elecraft brought out. Thanks! Larry KF8HW




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If this email is spam, report it here:
http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpam&Id=ODExMjI6MTEzMDAyMzcxNjpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk


Filter swap

Jorge Mejia
 

Anybody interested to swap a KFL3A-6K 6 kHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole filter
never used , for a KFL3A-1.8K 1.8 kHz, 8-pole filter

Please contact me off list

Jorge

HK4CZE

jorgeamejiap@...


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Comparison between the K3 and the Ten Tec Orion2

Duncan Carter
 

I realize that diversity receive is not the only use for the second receiver. I have a second receiver that I can use. I'm re-entering active ham radio after a twenty-five year absence and have other items to spend money on so it's really an economic choice. About forty years, I was a serious, active contester but for now, I've avoided the temptation to do more than casually hunt new countries in the contests since I've returned. Operating, as I do, with low power and very limited space for antennas further lowers the temptation to contest seriously. Except for the horizontal parts of my 80 meter inverted L, my antennas currently fit in a 6 meter by 6 meter by 4 meter volume. I occasionally operate rtty but about 99% of my operation is cw.

http://vibrotek.com/w5dc/w5dcant.html

Dunc, W5DC


ve3iay wrote:


Two comments:

1. The centering of the narrow filter can be more significant in RTTY. I also found that my 250 Hz filter was a bit offset, so that the filter response to the two tones of an RTTY signal was asymmetric. A little experimenting with the KS7D K3 Filter Tools software and an XG2 signal generator helped me get it centered. I have the K3 configured to switch in the "250" Hz filter at 350 Hz for use in RTTY contests (and on CW as well, of course, but that's not the primary reason I got it).

2. Your comment about the second receiver reads as if you believe that diversity receive is the only use for the subRX. This is not the case. You can use it to listen to both sides of a pileup, instead of wearing out the REV button trying to find a clear spot to transmit. During a slow run in a contest, you can search up and down the band in between CQs without missing anyone who responds to your CQ. You can listen on a second band to see whether it is open without interrupting what you are doing on the first band. You can search and pounce with both receivers at once on the same band, in effect doubling the rate at which you find new stations to work. These uses and others may or may not be enough to justify the cost, but the fact that you only have one antenna does not automatically rule out the usefulness of the second receiver.

73,
Rich VE3KI

--- In Elecraft_K3@... <mailto:Elecraft_K3%40yahoogroups.com>, Duncan Carter <dc@...> wrote:

The 500 Hz filter is the 8 pole Inrad version.

http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140
<http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140>
<http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140
<http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140>>

I've checked the centering and it's what it should be. The 250 Hz
filter
is not nearly as symmetrical and its centering is slighlty off but only
enough to matter if you are a nit picker like me; to me it does sound
slightly better if centered but only very slightly. I don't have the
second receiver as I can't put up a another receiving antenna far
enough
apart to do any good for diversity.

Dunc, W5DC

Rob Sherwood wrote:

The 500 Hz is a 5-pole, while the 250 is an 8-pole filter. It is
possible that not lining up the edges of the DSP filter with the
crystal filter is a good idea. That is why when I started offering a
CW roofing filter for the R-4C in 1976 I chose a nominal value of 600
Hz, with a typical BW of 650 Hz. Then even with the 500 Hz filter,
the
edges did not line up, and the group delay was hopefully less
cumulative. 73, Rob, NC0B

Duncan Carter <dc@... <mailto:dc%40vibrotek.com>>
7/30/2010 6:18 pm >>>
I've have the nominal 250 and 500 Hz, 8 pole filters for the K3
and I've
found that I prefer having the default/starting bandwidths for those
filters a bit narrower than the nominal bandwidths so that the skirts
are more determined by the dsp skirts, perhaps for the same reason.
Generally, I find the 250 Hz filter sounds better at 200 or 150 Hz and
the 500 Hz filter at 350 to 400 Hz.

I thought the conditions including noise were better in the CQ
contest.

Dunc, W5DC

Rob Sherwood wrote:


I ran the W1BB 160 meter CW contest in December with the Orion
II and
the CQ 160 meter CW contest in January with the K3 (in addition
to the
reference IC-781 in each case). Neither the Orion II nor the K3
overloaded, and I had a full complement of CW-bandwidth roofing
filters. Both were hooked up to an Alpha 89 PIN diode QSK amp. (Just
an side note, I had the external tuning pod on the Orion II since I
tend to run my knuckles into the small knobs near the main
tuning knob
of the Orion II.)

From the standpoint of handling strong adjacent-channel QRM, both
performed very well, as one would expect since the lab numbers are
virtually the same. I did back off the AGC threshold of the Orion II
since on 160 meters there is no need for the AGC reacting to band
noise. The big difference was the sound of the band noise on the
Orion
II. That was the reason for backing off the AGC threshold in a
futile
attempt at reducing the fatigue of the sound of the band noise.
While
the QRM was staggering in both contests, the band noise was really
annoying on the Orion II, virtually non-existent on the analog
IC-781,
and and really a non-issue on the K3 (the following month).

When I talked to Jack Burchfield at T-T about this observations, he
said another ham had also complained of the same problem
recently. He
wondered if the very sharp skirts of the Orion II were slope
detecting
the band noise and making it much worse. I have no idea if that was
the real explanation, but the sound of noise on weak signals was
really fatiguing.

I worked the Orion II for several hours Friday night, and when I
took
a break for dinner, I mentioned to my XYL that the band was sure
noisy
and it was really frying my ears. Then I switched to the analog rig,
and it was a totally different band. Sure the was QRM wall to wall,
but the hollow annoying noise on weak signals just wasn't there.

On the other hand, when I ran the CQ 160 contest, the K3 was so
good,
I used it most of the time, leaving the analog rig the forgotten
sibling. Was this a perfect test since one was in December and
one was
in January? No, but in both cases I went back and forth between the
"test" rig and the reference rig. That's why I use the analog rig as
the reference since it is the constant in the on-air comparisons.

The next question would be, would the same annoying band noise sound
be there on 20 meters? I assume it would be similar on 80 and
possibly
40 meters, but I have no idea on 20, 15 or 10 meters. I would really
like some input from others who have used an Orion II on the low
bands. Without having gone back and forth between the Orion II and
another totally different radio, I am sure I would never have known
that there was such a difference in how the band noise sounds in
different brands or models of product.

73, Rob, NC0B

"lsluiter1" <lsluiter1@... <mailto:lsluiter1%40yahoo.com>
<mailto:lsluiter1%40yahoo.com>>
7/29/2010 1:43 pm >>>
Could those out there who have owned a TT Orion 2 comment on your
personal as well as professional observations on the K3 vs. the
Orion
2? I have an O2 and due to space considerations I am contemplating a
switch to a K3. I like the pan display the Elecraft brought out.
Thanks! Larry KF8HW

-
.

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Re: Comparison between the K3 and the Ten Tec Orion2

ve3iay <ve3iay@...>
 

Two comments:

1. The centering of the narrow filter can be more significant in RTTY. I also found that my 250 Hz filter was a bit offset, so that the filter response to the two tones of an RTTY signal was asymmetric. A little experimenting with the KS7D K3 Filter Tools software and an XG2 signal generator helped me get it centered. I have the K3 configured to switch in the "250" Hz filter at 350 Hz for use in RTTY contests (and on CW as well, of course, but that's not the primary reason I got it).

2. Your comment about the second receiver reads as if you believe that diversity receive is the only use for the subRX. This is not the case. You can use it to listen to both sides of a pileup, instead of wearing out the REV button trying to find a clear spot to transmit. During a slow run in a contest, you can search up and down the band in between CQs without missing anyone who responds to your CQ. You can listen on a second band to see whether it is open without interrupting what you are doing on the first band. You can search and pounce with both receivers at once on the same band, in effect doubling the rate at which you find new stations to work. These uses and others may or may not be enough to justify the cost, but the fact that you only have one antenna does not automatically rule out the usefulness of the second receiver.

73,
Rich VE3KI

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Duncan Carter <dc@...> wrote:

The 500 Hz filter is the 8 pole Inrad version.

http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140
<http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=316&cat=140>

I've checked the centering and it's what it should be. The 250 Hz filter
is not nearly as symmetrical and its centering is slighlty off but only
enough to matter if you are a nit picker like me; to me it does sound
slightly better if centered but only very slightly. I don't have the
second receiver as I can't put up a another receiving antenna far enough
apart to do any good for diversity.

Dunc, W5DC

Rob Sherwood wrote:

The 500 Hz is a 5-pole, while the 250 is an 8-pole filter. It is
possible that not lining up the edges of the DSP filter with the
crystal filter is a good idea. That is why when I started offering a
CW roofing filter for the R-4C in 1976 I chose a nominal value of 600
Hz, with a typical BW of 650 Hz. Then even with the 500 Hz filter, the
edges did not line up, and the group delay was hopefully less
cumulative. 73, Rob, NC0B

Duncan Carter <dc@... <mailto:dc%40vibrotek.com>>
7/30/2010 6:18 pm >>>
I've have the nominal 250 and 500 Hz, 8 pole filters for the K3 and I've
found that I prefer having the default/starting bandwidths for those
filters a bit narrower than the nominal bandwidths so that the skirts
are more determined by the dsp skirts, perhaps for the same reason.
Generally, I find the 250 Hz filter sounds better at 200 or 150 Hz and
the 500 Hz filter at 350 to 400 Hz.

I thought the conditions including noise were better in the CQ contest.

Dunc, W5DC

Rob Sherwood wrote:


I ran the W1BB 160 meter CW contest in December with the Orion II and
the CQ 160 meter CW contest in January with the K3 (in addition to the
reference IC-781 in each case). Neither the Orion II nor the K3
overloaded, and I had a full complement of CW-bandwidth roofing
filters. Both were hooked up to an Alpha 89 PIN diode QSK amp. (Just
an side note, I had the external tuning pod on the Orion II since I
tend to run my knuckles into the small knobs near the main tuning knob
of the Orion II.)

From the standpoint of handling strong adjacent-channel QRM, both
performed very well, as one would expect since the lab numbers are
virtually the same. I did back off the AGC threshold of the Orion II
since on 160 meters there is no need for the AGC reacting to band
noise. The big difference was the sound of the band noise on the Orion
II. That was the reason for backing off the AGC threshold in a futile
attempt at reducing the fatigue of the sound of the band noise. While
the QRM was staggering in both contests, the band noise was really
annoying on the Orion II, virtually non-existent on the analog IC-781,
and and really a non-issue on the K3 (the following month).

When I talked to Jack Burchfield at T-T about this observations, he
said another ham had also complained of the same problem recently. He
wondered if the very sharp skirts of the Orion II were slope detecting
the band noise and making it much worse. I have no idea if that was
the real explanation, but the sound of noise on weak signals was
really fatiguing.

I worked the Orion II for several hours Friday night, and when I took
a break for dinner, I mentioned to my XYL that the band was sure noisy
and it was really frying my ears. Then I switched to the analog rig,
and it was a totally different band. Sure the was QRM wall to wall,
but the hollow annoying noise on weak signals just wasn't there.

On the other hand, when I ran the CQ 160 contest, the K3 was so good,
I used it most of the time, leaving the analog rig the forgotten
sibling. Was this a perfect test since one was in December and one was
in January? No, but in both cases I went back and forth between the
"test" rig and the reference rig. That's why I use the analog rig as
the reference since it is the constant in the on-air comparisons.

The next question would be, would the same annoying band noise sound
be there on 20 meters? I assume it would be similar on 80 and possibly
40 meters, but I have no idea on 20, 15 or 10 meters. I would really
like some input from others who have used an Orion II on the low
bands. Without having gone back and forth between the Orion II and
another totally different radio, I am sure I would never have known
that there was such a difference in how the band noise sounds in
different brands or models of product.

73, Rob, NC0B

"lsluiter1" <lsluiter1@... <mailto:lsluiter1%40yahoo.com>
<mailto:lsluiter1%40yahoo.com>>
7/29/2010 1:43 pm >>>
Could those out there who have owned a TT Orion 2 comment on your
personal as well as professional observations on the K3 vs. the Orion
2? I have an O2 and due to space considerations I am contemplating a
switch to a K3. I like the pan display the Elecraft brought out.
Thanks! Larry KF8HW

-
.

--
If this email is spam, report it here:
http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpam&Id=ODExMjI6MTEzMDQ1ODIwNjpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk
<http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpam&Id=ODExMjI6MTEzMDQ1ODIwNjpyb2JAbmMwYi5jb206ZGVsaXZlcmVk>