Date   

Re: Other filters in the K3

ab2tc
 

Hi,

I would support an Elecraft policy of *not* selling any K3s without a
filter suitable for SSB operation. But I would have thought a 2.1kHz
filter would be sufficient for SSB transmission, narrowband but highly
spectrally efficient. 300-2400Hz audio is highly readable if not
exactly high fidelity.

Knut - AB2TC

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Frank LaFranco" <flafranco@...>
wrote:

The 5 pole 2.7 KHz filter is included with the base K3 at no additional
cost. Since the 2.7 KHz filter is included with all K3's I would be
reluctant to sell it even if I never used SSB. Somewhere down the
line a
prospective buyer would expect the 2.7 KHz filter to be there.

Buy the way, if you wanted to upgrade to the 8 pole 2.8 KHz filter,
Elecraft
will allow $79 dollars off the price of the upgrade at the time of K3
purchase.

73,
Frank - W6NEK


----- Original Message -----
From: bill_w4zv
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 3:11 AM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3


Hi Eric,

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Eric C. Swartz"
<wa6hhq_lists@> wrote:

You must have at least one SSB b/w filter in the K3 when we ship. (2.7
kHz or higher.) These filters are used on TX and must be in the rig.
I understood the TX filter will be firmware menu selectable. If Hans
plans to use the rig on CW only, why couldn't he specify a filter
suitable for CW transmission (e.g. 1000 or 500 Hz)? As long as he
never used his K3 on SSB, he could sell his 2.7 kHz (if indeed he is
forced to buy one initially).

I do hope you have not changed your mind about allowing TX filters to
be menu selectable. Even though I will have a 2.7 kHz in my unit, I
plan to use a 500 Hz filter on CW transmit for signal quality reasons.

73, Bill





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3

Frank LaFranco <flafranco@...>
 

The 5 pole 2.7 KHz filter is included with the base K3 at no additional cost. Since the 2.7 KHz filter is included with all K3's I would be reluctant to sell it even if I never used SSB. Somewhere down the line a prospective buyer would expect the 2.7 KHz filter to be there.

Buy the way, if you wanted to upgrade to the 8 pole 2.8 KHz filter, Elecraft will allow $79 dollars off the price of the upgrade at the time of K3 purchase.

73,
Frank - W6NEK

----- Original Message -----
From: bill_w4zv
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 3:11 AM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3


Hi Eric,

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Eric C. Swartz"
<wa6hhq_lists@...> wrote:

You must have at least one SSB b/w filter in the K3 when we ship. (2.7
kHz or higher.) These filters are used on TX and must be in the rig.
I understood the TX filter will be firmware menu selectable. If Hans
plans to use the rig on CW only, why couldn't he specify a filter
suitable for CW transmission (e.g. 1000 or 500 Hz)? As long as he
never used his K3 on SSB, he could sell his 2.7 kHz (if indeed he is
forced to buy one initially).

I do hope you have not changed your mind about allowing TX filters to
be menu selectable. Even though I will have a 2.7 kHz in my unit, I
plan to use a 500 Hz filter on CW transmit for signal quality reasons.

73, Bill





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Other filters in the K3

Larry Phipps <larry@...>
 

Maybe Eric can comment further on this, but according to his talk at
W9DXCC, the Elecraft filters are a slightly different design to
optimize IMD compared to the Yaesu ones... I assume because the xtals
themselves have different motional parameters. Maybe the circuit is
the same, but the "cut" of the xtals is different?

73,
Larry N8LP


--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Hans Remeeus <hans@...> wrote:


Thanks Toby.

When it is not fully plug-in I will not try to put the F-1000D's
filters
into the K3.

It's better to sell the 1000D's filters and pay $90 for a filter which
will fit.


73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
http://www.remeeus.eu
Communication is about people, the rest is technology.



Toby Deinhardt schreef:


Re: Other filters in the K3

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

Hi Eric,

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "Eric C. Swartz"
<wa6hhq_lists@...> wrote:

You must have at least one SSB b/w filter in the K3 when we ship. (2.7
kHz or higher.) These filters are used on TX and must be in the rig.
I understood the TX filter will be firmware menu selectable. If Hans
plans to use the rig on CW only, why couldn't he specify a filter
suitable for CW transmission (e.g. 1000 or 500 Hz)? As long as he
never used his K3 on SSB, he could sell his 2.7 kHz (if indeed he is
forced to buy one initially).

I do hope you have not changed your mind about allowing TX filters to
be menu selectable. Even though I will have a 2.7 kHz in my unit, I
plan to use a 500 Hz filter on CW transmit for signal quality reasons.

73, Bill


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3

Toby Deinhardt
 

Good Morning,

Apparently the way the crystals are cleaned prior to assembly
More about this at <http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/roofer_intro.html>:

<============================================================>

Building the roofing filter from discrete parts does not
guarantee a very good intercept point by itself. It all
comes down to the quality (=linearity) of the individual
components. Especially the crystals! Because of the digital
revolution, quartz crystals have become mass produced
components (mainly China these days) and are therefore
very cheap, which is good. But crystals that are manufactured
to be used in crystal oscillators for digital circuits do
rarely have the quality that is needed to construct a
high-end crystal filter. Their Q is good enough to get
an oscillator starting reliably and keep it going, but
usually not good enough to produce filters with very low
insertion loss. Even worse, the 'oscillator-grade'
crystals also lack linearity. The surface finish plays
a big role in the linearity of the quartz. Particles
(micro dust) polluting the surface of the quartz are
known to cause IMD. To make things considerably worse,
the IMD they cause is not following 3rd order law by
any means.

etc. etc. etc.

<============================================================>



Very worth while reading imho.


vy 73 de toby


Re: Other filters in the K3

Julian <julian@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "bill_w4zv" <w0zv@...> wrote:

Not recommended. Different mechanical pinout and I understand Inrad
must carefully select 8-pole filters for IMD performance in the K3.
Although your FT-1000D filters might be OK in its 2nd IF, they *might
not* provide the IMD performance needed in the K3's 1st IF. There is
apparently some unspecified parameter in the filter affecting IMD
performance so I would definitely not use any filters except Elecraft's.
Interesting item in Technical Topics in the latest RSGB RadCom about
this. Apparently the way the crystals are cleaned prior to assembly
can affect the IMD performance. Many filter manufacturers don't take
the extra trouble over this because but adds to the cost. Certainly a
good argument for sticking with the Elecraft filters.

Julian, G4ILO


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3

Hans Remeeus <hans@...>
 

Thanks again, Bill. Very useful information!


73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
http://www.remeeus.eu
Communication is about people, the rest is technology.



bill_w4zv schreef:

--- In Elecraft_K3@... <mailto:Elecraft_K3%40yahoogroups.com>, Hans Remeeus <hans@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Thank you so much for this very interesting information!
>
> This is very good to know before to decide and how to place the order.
In case you have not seen it, also check the 8-pole filter plots here:
http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm <http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm>
...and 5-pole info here:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073452.html <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073452.html>
... some of my personal thoughts:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073462.html <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073462.html>
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073737.html <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073737.html>
...and regarding the 250/200 BW filters, see second paragraph from the
bottom:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073959.html <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073959.html>
73, Bill


Re: Other filters in the K3

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
 

2.7 kHz. 2.1 kHz is way too narrow for SSB TX.

73, Eric

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
<faunt@...> wrote:

Err, is the minimum 2.7kHz or 2.1kHz?

73, doug


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
 

Err, is the minimum 2.7kHz or 2.1kHz?

73, doug


From: "Eric C. Swartz" <wa6hhq_lists@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:01:59 -0000

You must have at least one SSB b/w filter in the K3 when we ship. (2.7
kHz or higher.) These filters are used on TX and must be in the rig.

73, Eric WA6HHQ


Re: Other filters in the K3

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
 

You must have at least one SSB b/w filter in the K3 when we ship. (2.7
kHz or higher.) These filters are used on TX and must be in the rig.

73, Eric WA6HHQ


Re: Other filters in the K3

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Hans Remeeus <hans@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for this very interesting information!

This is very good to know before to decide and how to place the order.
In case you have not seen it, also check the 8-pole filter plots here:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm

...and 5-pole info here:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073452.html

... some of my personal thoughts:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073462.html
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073737.html

...and regarding the 250/200 BW filters, see second paragraph from the
bottom:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073959.html

73, Bill


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Other filters in the K3

Hans Remeeus <hans@...>
 

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for this very interesting information!

This is very good to know before to decide and how to place the order.


73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
http://www.remeeus.eu
Communication is about people, the rest is technology.



bill_w4zv schreef:

--- In Elecraft_K3@... <mailto:Elecraft_K3%40yahoogroups.com>, Hans Remeeus <hans@...> wrote:

>
> - Can I order the K3 with a 2.8 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7
> kHz filter?
>
> In the meantime I have read in the group that this is possible after an
> additional payment of $90.
Correct.

> - Can I order the K3 with a 1.0 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7
> kHz filter?
Correct, but you should tell Lisa you do *not* plan to operate SSB
with that rig. Elecraft would not normally supply any K3 that is not
capable of SSB operation in at least one filter slot.

> In the meantime I have read in the group that this is only possible
with
> a 400 Hz filter and an additional payment of $90.
I don't believe this is correct...no reason I know of it should be so.

> - Can I use my FT-1000D's 8.2 MHz filter in the K3?
Not recommended. Different mechanical pinout and I understand Inrad
must carefully select 8-pole filters for IMD performance in the K3.
Although your FT-1000D filters might be OK in its 2nd IF, they *might
not* provide the IMD performance needed in the K3's 1st IF. There is
apparently some unspecified parameter in the filter affecting IMD
performance so I would definitely not use any filters except Elecraft's.
You may want to study the following info. For IMD performance, there
is really no noticeable difference between 8-poles and 5-poles:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073442.html <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073442.html>
73, Bill


Re: Other filters in the K3

bill_w4zv <w0zv@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., Hans Remeeus <hans@...> wrote:


- Can I order the K3 with a 2.8 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7
kHz filter?

In the meantime I have read in the group that this is possible after an
additional payment of $90.
Correct.


- Can I order the K3 with a 1.0 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7
kHz filter?
Correct, but you should tell Lisa you do *not* plan to operate SSB
with that rig. Elecraft would not normally supply any K3 that is not
capable of SSB operation in at least one filter slot.


In the meantime I have read in the group that this is only possible
with
a 400 Hz filter and an additional payment of $90.
I don't believe this is correct...no reason I know of it should be so.


- Can I use my FT-1000D's 8.2 MHz filter in the K3?
Not recommended. Different mechanical pinout and I understand Inrad
must carefully select 8-pole filters for IMD performance in the K3.
Although your FT-1000D filters might be OK in its 2nd IF, they *might
not* provide the IMD performance needed in the K3's 1st IF. There is
apparently some unspecified parameter in the filter affecting IMD
performance so I would definitely not use any filters except Elecraft's.


You may want to study the following info. For IMD performance, there
is really no noticeable difference between 8-poles and 5-poles:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2007-September/073442.html

73, Bill


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Other filters in the K3

Hank Kohl
 

Hans Remeeus wrote:
Thanks Toby.

When it is not fully plug-in I will not try to put the F-1000D's filters into the K3.

It's better to sell the 1000D's filters and pay $90 for a filter which will fit.


73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
That sounds like a good decision - And no chance to void
any warranty!
I think I'm going to use the stock 2.7 filter and add a 1.8 and
either a 500 or 400 in the main.
Maybe a 500 in the sub receiver later.

73 and still waiting for run #2!
Hank K8DD

--
---
If God intended you to be on single sideband,
he would have given you only one nostril.
- Steve, K2PTS (SK)
---


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Other filters in the K3

Hans Remeeus <hans@...>
 

Thanks Toby.

When it is not fully plug-in I will not try to put the F-1000D's filters into the K3.

It's better to sell the 1000D's filters and pay $90 for a filter which will fit.


73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
http://www.remeeus.eu
Communication is about people, the rest is technology.



Toby Deinhardt schreef:

Hallo Hans,

> - Can I use my FT-1000D's 8.2 MHz filter in the K3?
>
> Can someone answer these questions and confirm the new information?
I was in touch with INRAD several months ago, before Elecraft announced
the 1.8kHz filter, and was asking more or less the same. It seems that
the filters from INRAD for 8215kHz are identical from a circuit point of
view, but differ mechanically.
vy 73 de toby
--
DD5FZ (ex 4n6fz, dj7mgq, dg5mgq, dd5fz)
K2 #885, K2/100 #3248
K3/100 #??? (< #200)
DOK C12, BCC, DL-QRP-AG


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Other filters in the K3

Toby Deinhardt
 

Hallo Hans,

- Can I use my FT-1000D's 8.2 MHz filter in the K3?
Can someone answer these questions and confirm the new information?
I was in touch with INRAD several months ago, before Elecraft announced the 1.8kHz filter, and was asking more or less the same. It seems that the filters from INRAD for 8215kHz are identical from a circuit point of view, but differ mechanically.

vy 73 de toby
--
DD5FZ (ex 4n6fz, dj7mgq, dg5mgq, dd5fz)
K2 #885, K2/100 #3248
K3/100 #??? (< #200)
DOK C12, BCC, DL-QRP-AG


Other filters in the K3

Hans Remeeus <hans@...>
 

A week ago I have sent a web inquiry to Elecraft but so far no answer. That's the reason why I send it to the group.

I am planning to sell my FT-1000D and buy two Elecraft K3. One for SSB and one for CW.

The questions are:

- Can I order the K3 with a 2.8 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7 kHz filter?

In the meantime I have read in the group that this is possible after an additional payment of $90.

- Can I order the K3 with a 1.0 kHz filter instead of the standard 2.7 kHz filter?

In the meantime I have read in the group that this is only possible with a 400 Hz filter and an additional payment of $90.

- Can I use my FT-1000D's 8.2 MHz filter in the K3?

Can someone answer these questions and confirm the new information?

Thanks in advance!


--

73,
Hans Remeeus (PA1HR)
http://www.remeeus.eu
Communication is about people, the rest is technology.


K3 CW/Digital mode decording

ja1nlx <ayoshida@...>
 

Hi

I would like to know how it works.

Does it work good ?
Is there any files which demonstrates decording ?

Any comments by field testers will be appreciated.

aki, ja1nlx


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Zerobeat

ajsoenke@...
 

Good Comments. If I hadn't recently retired to the status of employed part-time and retired-the-rest, I wouldn't be able to deal with all the traffic. ( That's why I do a fair amount of reply off-list ).  Since you have had some exposure to other groups, what would you consider to be a good one for keeping in tune with my recently acquired IC-7000? I won it as a prize a couple weeks after purchasing a K3. I think it'll make a good all-around mobile rig.  The K3 will be interconnected to so much station hardware I doubt I'll want to haul it away except for a serious field trip.
 
Al,  WA6VNN




See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Zerobeat

David Ferrington, M0XDF
 

Well, I joined - I've stayed quiet on this issue. Frankly, up till now, I
decided I'd stick with the 'Elecraft' list and read this Yahoo one too.
Since Wayne et'al want to stay with theirs, I wasn't going to push for
anything else.
However, the mail load on the 'official' site has got rather large.
Now I'm reading 3 places - plus about 10 others too.
If this could receive all 'Elecraft' mails and put them in the correct
category where known, it would be much easier.

I joined Zerobeat, because 'if you don't vote, you can't complain' and I
wanted to see what you'd done - in a very short time too (I know, I'm in
IT).

I think you may have more luck with discussing a change of Elecraft list
with them once the first 2 or 3 batches of K3s have shipped. They just don't
have time to think about it right now.

Finally, not to be rude, but I don't want to get into long winded
discussions on whether the above is right or wrong - I just want my K3! I
was hoping to get it for JOTA, but doesn't look like I'll have time to put
it together, even if it does arrive before the 19th.


On 22/9/07 05:01, "Thom LaCosta" <lacosta@...> sent:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, Julian wrote:
http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php .
--
Many ideas grow better when transplanted into another mind than in the one
where
they sprang up. -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., US Supreme Court Justice
(1841-1935)