Date   

Re: KAT500 to EXTERNAL antenna changeover

David Cutter
 

Thanks, Joe, I was beginning to think it would need some modest surgery.

73 David G3UNA 

On 17 June 2021 at 02:55 "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@...> wrote:

> In short, I would like to use one button press to do both operations: > How can I do that?

Tap the appropriate Ant1/Ant2/Ant3 LED and use it to drive a relay
(via the appropriate control circuit) to duplicate the behavior of
your manual switch.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-16 11:25 AM, David Cutter via groups.io wrote:
I have 2 multi-band antennas a long way from the shack and wish to use a single coax with a changeover relay at each end. Let's say antenna A and antenna B.
In a basic set-up I can select either antenna from a 12V supply to the changeover master relay and it will present the antennas into either antenna socket 1 or antenna socket 2 on the KAT500,
then I would select that antenna from the KAT500 front panel.  In this way I take advantage of the memories for each antenna as if they were directly connected with their own coax.

To compare each antenna on a particular station it would quicker and more certain if I could press only the antenna selector on the KPA500 then it would signal the relay box to change over.

OR
have my switch on the relay box send a signal to the KAT500 to change antennas, NB without interfering with the band/segment data.

In short, I would like to use one button press to do both operations:
How can I do that?

I have a KRC2 and N6TV Y box if that helps.

Thanks in advance and 73
David G3UNA





Re: KAT500 to EXTERNAL antenna changeover

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

In short, I would like to use one button press to do both operations:
How can I do that?
Tap the appropriate Ant1/Ant2/Ant3 LED and use it to drive a relay
(via the appropriate control circuit) to duplicate the behavior of
your manual switch.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-16 11:25 AM, David Cutter via groups.io wrote:
I have 2 multi-band antennas a long way from the shack and wish to use a single coax with a changeover relay at each end. Let's say antenna A and antenna B.
In a basic set-up I can select either antenna from a 12V supply to the changeover master relay and it will present the antennas into either antenna socket 1 or antenna socket 2 on the KAT500,
then I would select that antenna from the KAT500 front panel.  In this way I take advantage of the memories for each antenna as if they were directly connected with their own coax.
To compare each antenna on a particular station it would quicker and more certain if I could press only the antenna selector on the KPA500 then it would signal the relay box to change over.
OR
have my switch on the relay box send a signal to the KAT500 to change antennas, NB without interfering with the band/segment data.
In short, I would like to use one button press to do both operations:
How can I do that?
I have a KRC2 and N6TV Y box if that helps.
Thanks in advance and 73
David G3UNA


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Jim Denneny
 

Correct Gordon.  Radio was set for RS232 at 38400. I switched to USB and problem is resolved

Jim K7EG


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Jim Denneny
 

Hi Joe & Dave

Perhaps you missed my reply yesterday. I switched K3S from RS232 - 38400 to USB option and all is resolved.

Thanks, Jim K7EG


Re: To much output power?

Wes Stewart
 

If you want to get into RF power measurement in more detail here is a good reference: https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_64-1a.pdf

There are later versions of this by the successor companies, but this one is easier to get and still valid.


KAT500 to EXTERNAL antenna changeover

David Cutter
 

I have 2 multi-band antennas a long way from the shack and wish to use a single coax with a changeover relay at each end. Let's say antenna A and antenna B.
In a basic set-up I can select either antenna from a 12V supply to the changeover master relay and it will present the antennas into either antenna socket 1 or antenna socket 2 on the KAT500, 
then I would select that antenna from the KAT500 front panel.  In this way I take advantage of the memories for each antenna as if they were directly connected with their own coax. 

To compare each antenna on a particular station it would quicker and more certain if I could press only the antenna selector on the KPA500 then it would signal the relay box to change over. 

OR
have my switch on the relay box send a signal to the KAT500 to change antennas, NB without interfering with the band/segment data. 

In short, I would like to use one button press to do both operations: 
How can I do that?  

I have a KRC2 and N6TV Y box if that helps.

Thanks in advance and 73 
David G3UNA


Re: To much output power?

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
 

If your LP-100 hasn’t been recently calibrated, it likely needs calibration.   It is customary to have test equipment calibration done by a standards company at least once a year.  

Just because it was correct once doesn’t mean it is correct twice.   Also a known 50 ohm resistive load is needed for accurate power measurement. 


73 
Bob, K4TAX


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-06-16 12:26 AM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
@ Thanks, Gordon, but how does that explain Jim's report that Commander could track his K3S's frequency but not its mode?
The K3s uses a data multiplexer to switch between the RS-232 and
USB connections. I suspect there is some signal leakage through
the data mux and some portion of a poll/response leak through
while some (perhaps second/third command in a string) do not.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-16 12:26 AM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
@ more AA6YQ comments below
I suspect that what he means is the radio was set to use the rs-232 port and not the usb port.
@ Thanks, Gordon, but how does that explain Jim's report that Commander could track his K3S's frequency but not its mode?
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
On 6/15/2021 18:21 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

Resolved. RS232 Config item was set at 38400. Wrong. Rolled RS232 to USB and all is well. At age 86, items like this do not recall correctly.

+ That's why directing the DXLab Launcher to populate a Workspace when everything is working correctly is so important. Known good settings can then be restored with a couple of mouse clicks.

A kind, smart Elecraft tech helped me test and find this. On another happy note, he told me not to worry about parts inventory as Elecraft can repair most boards unless a catastrophic event occurs, CASE CLOSED.

+ If the K3S "RS232 Config" menu offers 38400 as a choice, why is it wrong? The K3S manual notes that firmware upgrades are automatically conducted via the serial port at 38400.

+ Did you have Commander configured for a baud rate other than 38400?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

southdaleus
 

Joe, W4TV is exactly right.  I sent you a private email Jim, check your mail.  I am using a Startech adapter and it works FB got it on Amazon about $20.  I also ordered an optical isolator ($9) from Ebay which also works FB and isolates the RS232 from the computer and hopefully protects from spikes.  I prefer RS232 to USB adapter.  I wish they hadn't even put the USB in the rig.  My older K3 doesn't have USB and the RS232 was always reliable and ready.  

Dale, K9VUJ


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Dave AA6YQ
 

@ more AA6YQ comments below

I suspect that what he means is the radio was set to use the rs-232 port and not the usb port.

@ Thanks, Gordon, but how does that explain Jim's report that Commander could track his K3S's frequency but not its mode?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


On 6/15/2021 18:21 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

Resolved. RS232 Config item was set at 38400. Wrong. Rolled RS232 to USB and all is well. At age 86, items like this do not recall correctly.

+ That's why directing the DXLab Launcher to populate a Workspace when everything is working correctly is so important. Known good settings can then be restored with a couple of mouse clicks.

A kind, smart Elecraft tech helped me test and find this. On another happy note, he told me not to worry about parts inventory as Elecraft can repair most boards unless a catastrophic event occurs, CASE CLOSED.

+ If the K3S "RS232 Config" menu offers 38400 as a choice, why is it wrong? The K3S manual notes that firmware upgrades are automatically conducted via the serial port at 38400.

+ Did you have Commander configured for a baud rate other than 38400?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ












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Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Gordon LaPoint
 

I suspect that what he means is the radio was set to use the rs-232 port and not the usb port.
Gordon - n1mgo

On 6/15/2021 18:21 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

Resolved. RS232 Config item was set at 38400. Wrong. Rolled RS232 to USB and all is well. At age 86, items like this do not recall correctly.

+ That's why directing the DXLab Launcher to populate a Workspace when everything is working correctly is so important. Known good settings can then be restored with a couple of mouse clicks.

A kind, smart Elecraft tech helped me test and find this. On another happy note, he told me not to worry about parts inventory as Elecraft can repair most boards unless a catastrophic event occurs, CASE CLOSED.

+ If the K3S "RS232 Config" menu offers 38400 as a choice, why is it wrong? The K3S manual notes that firmware upgrades are automatically conducted via the serial port at 38400.

+ Did you have Commander configured for a baud rate other than 38400?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ






Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Resolved. RS232 Config item was set at 38400. Wrong. Rolled RS232 to USB and all is well. At age 86, items like this do not recall correctly.

+ That's why directing the DXLab Launcher to populate a Workspace when everything is working correctly is so important. Known good settings can then be restored with a couple of mouse clicks.

A kind, smart Elecraft tech helped me test and find this. On another happy note, he told me not to worry about parts inventory as Elecraft can repair most boards unless a catastrophic event occurs, CASE CLOSED.

+ If the K3S "RS232 Config" menu offers 38400 as a choice, why is it wrong? The K3S manual notes that firmware upgrades are automatically conducted via the serial port at 38400.

+ Did you have Commander configured for a baud rate other than 38400?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Jim Denneny
 

Resolved.  RS232 Config item was set at 38400.  Wrong. Rolled RS232 to USB and all is well.  At age 86, items like this do not recall correctly.  A kind, smart Elecraft tech helped me test and find this.  On another happy note, he told me not to worry about parts inventory as Elecraft can repair most boards unless a catastrophic event occurs,  CASE CLOSED.

Jim K7EG


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Ge out your RJ45 to DB9 cable (supplied with the K3S), configure the K3S
for RS-232 at 38,400 bps, and connect to a *real* serial port or USB to
serial adapter on your computer.

That should tell you if the USB section of the KIO3B is bad or whether
you have some other configuration issue.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-06-15 12:49 PM, Jim Denneny wrote:
I have concluded my KI03B IO board has partially failed in my K3S.  The good news is I can nurse WSJT to communicate through DXLab Commander but, I no longer can connect with N1MM+
The bad news is zero inventory on replacement and a potential 90 day wait.  A power surge is a possible culprit in my failure.  Elecraft indicated this might be the last spare parts order for K3 parts.  I hope that is not the case.
Jim K7EG


Re: To much output power?

Ray Maxfield
 

Use a Real  Dummy Load, other wise ALL bets are Off !

WA6VAB  Ray  

 

 

 

From: Russ Tobolic via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 6:59 AM
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] To much output power?

 

No anguish here over 0.7dB.  It's just that when I first set up my K3 13 years ago using the same LP100, the power readings between the two only differed by a few tenths of a watt (the LP100 was calibrated by Larry, N8LP).  I wished I had done a survey of K3 and LP100 users for differences in power readings but the deed is done and it looks like I may have fixed something that wasn't broke.  I was just keying off the suggestion by WE6R that early units (like mine from 2008) had weak diodes D36 & D37.  But I'm past that now.  The issue I have is that when running the TX Gain calibration it fails at 20M.  I get the ERR TXG message which my owners manual "indicates a problem with band-pass filter alignment or one of the low-pass filters.  In either case it could affect on or two bands.   See service manual."  I didn't know there was a "service" manual.  

Russ, N3CO

 


Re: KAT3 (not KAT3A) issue - older K3 take note

jeff stai wk6i
 

Glad I said something! G3PQA noted the explanation in another email here:


But in a nutshell from WE6R:

"Overview; There is an 8.215 trap on the RF board, the trap on the KAT/KANT3 boards was an additional trap that was later found to be way overkill. 

"On the KAT3 ATU, it is on the antenna side of the tuner, so it is subject to high SWR and can heat and burn.

"On the KANT3 you cannot cannot run with high SWR or the radio will back off, so not a problem on these boards.

"Early ATUs had a small coil L10 and single pink/brown capacitor C10. The cap can fail internally invisibly or catastrophically! The coil can get burnt."

And yes you should redo the TX calibration after making this mod. :) 73 jeff wk6i

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 5:49 AM Geert Jan de Groot <pe1hzg@...> wrote:
[re-re-send; groups,io doesn't accept posting, but there is no way to upload pictures either - not cool!]

Hi Jeff,

On 15/06/2021 03:56, Elecraft-K3@groups.io wrote:
TL;DR: Got a KAT3 in your K3? Next time you have your K3 open, pull out
KAT3 and preemptively remove L10 and C10, and replace with a jumper. You
don't need them and they are probably messing you up at times.

Upon reading your email, I made a mental note to do this next time the radio is on the desk, but then google found twitter messages from F8CRH and on the bench my K3 went.

When I removed my KAT3 I found traces of impending doom and pyrotechnics and made a few pictures. IMHO, if you have a KAT3 (not KAT3A), you want to open your radio and make the modification NOW.

Please find attached (I tried uploading this to groups.io, but either don't have privilege or it's my ten left thumbs) pictures of what I found of my still-working KAT3: the board, details of L10 singed pretty badly, and L10/C10 after I removed them.
(I also left them on https://eng.pe1hzg.net/kat3-c10-l10/ but my ISP will probably break that in a few months, so that URL is not google-safe)

In my case, the previous owner of my K3 was an avid 6m EME-er. On the other hand, my recent experiments on 6m were not so hot, indeed with a 6m dipole that I could not make to resonate - perhaps I should try again.

I still wonder why these parts were on their way to destruction.
96nH // 3900pF makes 8.215 MHz, these were a trap for the IF of the K3 - why would they fail while working on these higher bands?

I note that the KANT3 (the PCB you have if you don't have an antenna tuner), the same parts are on the board, and they are missing on KANT3A.
And if you bought a MFJ950 K3 antenna tuner, you will find the same parts (L1 and C9, where C9 even has a lower working voltage of 500V instead of the 1600V of the Elecraft part). As I don't understand the failure scenario, I don't know if they same problems apply in these boards, but YMMV.

Come to think of it, you probably want to re-calibrate TX power after making this mod...

73,

Geert Jan PE1HZG



--
Jeff Stai ~ WK6I ~ wk6i.jeff@...
RTTY op at W7RN
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Drew Vonada-Smith K3PA
 

K3 *PARTS* or K3 *BOARDS* ?  Better not be the end of parts!

There are a LOT of reports of failures of that board.  Much more than its RS232 predecessor.

73,
Drew K3PA


Re: K3s and DXL Commander or N1MM+

Jim Denneny
 

I have concluded my KI03B IO board has partially failed in my K3S.  The good news is I can nurse WSJT to communicate through DXLab Commander but, I no longer can connect with N1MM+

The bad news is zero inventory on replacement and a potential 90 day wait.  A power surge is a possible culprit in my failure.  Elecraft indicated this might be the last spare parts order for K3 parts.  I hope that is not the case.

Jim K7EG


WJST 2.4.0 Delay issue (split/rig/fake it) fix until next release

Max NG7M
 

As many know at this point, there was / is a delay on PTT for the K3/S related to the version of HamLib that ships with WSJT 2.4.0.  The solution is to set the rig split mode to none which then defeats the advantage of transmitting a cleaner signal (tx harmonics are suppressed by the vfo b's sideband filter) The problem exists for 'rig' or 'fake it' mode in my testing.

I resolved this issue by updating the HamLib dll's in the 2.4.0 release of WSJT.  A new feature / change to WSJT 2.4.0 was that for Windows they use the dll interface to HamLib. (see the release notes)  This allows you to update the version of HamLib that ships with WSJT.  So if you like to use the rig split / fake it option in WSJT with your K3/S and are capable of backing up your WSJT ../wsjt/bin directory and downloading a zip file and copying some files from the zip file to your ../wsjt/bin folder you can fix the delay on PTT issue before the next release / beta release of WSJT where they ship a newer version of HamLib that will fix the problem with the K3/S.

As in all things computers, stupid is as stupid does.  Back up your current WSJT install / or at least the DLL's you will replace or don't do this...  i.e. just continue to use 'none' for your rig split option in WSJT and wait for the next release of WSJT or beta / RC.

So if you are still reading, then you will need to download the daily build of HamLib for your Windows platform, 32 bit or 64 bit here: N0NB SF.net developer page (sourceforge.net) 

Extract the zip file to a temp location on your computer etc... and in the ../bin folder copy the 4 dll's to your ../wsjt/bin folder (after shutting down WSJT of course and backing up your ../wsjt/bin folder).  Restart WSJT and the problem with the delay was solved for me.  I'm back using the rig split option (in my case I'm using a com port for PTT to my K3S for what it's worth).

Anyway, it's nice with the latest release that we now have the option of updating HamLib post WSJT release with the use of the dll interface to HamLib.  This is a perfect example of HamLib introducing an issue, but a later daily build of HamLib had the issue fixed.  I'm using the 06-15 daily release build of HamLib and I copied these zip files and hosted them here if you want to stick with the daily build I tested: www.nc7j.com - /downloads/NG7M/HamLib/

You mileage may vary... it's working great for me with the daily 6-15-2021 build of HamLib.  If FUD is your mantra in Ham Radio, then don't use this work around, wait for the WSJT release that will have the newer HamLib version.

See section 4.2 of the WSJT User guide if you want to read about the split and fake it option which can give you a cleaner transmitted signal: WSJT-X 2.0 User Guide (princeton.edu)

Max NG7M


Re: To much output power?

Russ Tobolic
 

No anguish here over 0.7dB.  It's just that when I first set up my K3 13 years ago using the same LP100, the power readings between the two only differed by a few tenths of a watt (the LP100 was calibrated by Larry, N8LP).  I wished I had done a survey of K3 and LP100 users for differences in power readings but the deed is done and it looks like I may have fixed something that wasn't broke.  I was just keying off the suggestion by WE6R that early units (like mine from 2008) had weak diodes D36 & D37.  But I'm past that now.  The issue I have is that when running the TX Gain calibration it fails at 20M.  I get the ERR TXG message which my owners manual "indicates a problem with band-pass filter alignment or one of the low-pass filters.  In either case it could affect on or two bands.   See service manual."  I didn't know there was a "service" manual.  

Russ, N3CO

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