I should think or believe my K3/K3s is pretty clean at 35 watts into my KPA500?

Dale, K9VUJ

On 03, Nov 2019, at 13:23, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...> wrote:

The nice thing,  the K3S which contains the new synthesizers and a K3 updated with new synthesizers will be cleaner due to lower phase noise and amplitude noise.   Otherwise, lower composite noise which does and will affect any receiver.   Receiver filtering will not reduce the type of  noise which exists in the passband of the receiver.    If the transmitter is dirty, everybody suffers.   It it is fed through an amplifier, everybody suffers more.

Please read Rob Sherwood's article in QST, November 2019, pp 38 - 41.  "It's Time to Clean Up our Transmitters".   You may discover that the wonderful radio you just purchased may not be so wonderful after all. 

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 11/3/2019 11:32 AM, Wes wrote:

If TX IMD is the issue, K3 and K3S transmitters are a real mixed bag.  My old K3 at 30 watts is fantastic, with IMD at all frequencies better than -40 dBc (ARRL method).  The same radio at 10W is the worst of my two radios, except at 24 MHz where the K3 and K3S tie at -22 dBc.

It's been hard to keep up with these measurements since the KLPA3A in the K3S has been replaced twice and the KPA3A is IIRC, on the fourth version.

Wes  N7WS

On 11/3/2019 8:16 AM, Martin Sole wrote:

I suspect the quality of the transmitter particularly with regard to its composite noise spectrum to be a large player. Some radios with high end receiver performance have rudimentary (I'm being kind) transmitter composite noise performance.

See what NK7Z, NC0B and K9YC have written about this.


Martin, HS0ZED

On 03/11/2019 21:30, Mark Morin wrote:

My experience is that the type of rig does make a difference for close coexistence. We’ve found on DxPeditions that an upgraded K3 with KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-590s also with KPA500, can coexist quite well with antennas about 300 ft apart. On most bands, we can operate SSB and CW simultaneously with tolerable QRM. Other times we have tried different high-end rigs in similar setup and found that opposite end of same-band operation was nearly impossible due to QRM. I suspect it’s mostly the receivers that makes the difference. 

Mark VA2MM

I suspect the quality of the transmitter particularly with regard to its composite noise spectrum to be a large player. Some radios with high end receiver performance have rudimentary (I'm being kind) transmitter composite noise performance.

See what NK7Z, NC0B and K9YC have written about this.


Martin, HS0ZED

On 03/11/2019 21:30, Mark Morin wrote:

My experience is that the type of rig does make a difference for close coexistence. We’ve found on DxPeditions that an upgraded K3 with KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-590s also with KPA500, can coexist quite well with antennas about 300 ft apart. On most bands, we can operate SSB and CW simultaneously with tolerable QRM. Other times we have tried different high-end rigs in similar setup and found that opposite end of same-band operation was nearly impossible due to QRM. I suspect it’s mostly the receivers that makes the difference. 

Mark VA2MM

If TX IMD is the issue, K3 and K3S transmitters are a real mixed bag.  My old K3 at 30 watts is fantastic, with IMD at all frequencies better than -40 dBc (ARRL method).  The same radio at 10W is the worst of my two radios, except at 24 MHz where the K3 and K3S tie at -22 dBc.

It's been hard to keep up with these measurements since the KLPA3A in the K3S has been replaced twice and the KPA3A is IIRC, on the fourth version.

Wes  N7WS

On 11/3/2019 8:16 AM, Martin Sole wrote:

I suspect the quality of the transmitter particularly with regard to its composite noise spectrum to be a large player. Some radios with high end receiver performance have rudimentary (I'm being kind) transmitter composite noise performance.

See what NK7Z, NC0B and K9YC have written about this.


Martin, HS0ZED

On 03/11/2019 21:30, Mark Morin wrote:

My experience is that the type of rig does make a difference for close coexistence. We’ve found on DxPeditions that an upgraded K3 with KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-590s also with KPA500, can coexist quite well with antennas about 300 ft apart. On most bands, we can operate SSB and CW simultaneously with tolerable QRM. Other times we have tried different high-end rigs in similar setup and found that opposite end of same-band operation was nearly impossible due to QRM. I suspect it’s mostly the receivers that makes the difference. 

Mark VA2MM

I suspect the quality of the transmitter particularly with regard to its composite noise spectrum to be a large player. Some radios with high end receiver performance have rudimentary (I'm being kind) transmitter composite noise performance.

See what NK7Z, NC0B and K9YC have written about this.


Martin, HS0ZED

On 03/11/2019 21:30, Mark Morin wrote:

My experience is that the type of rig does make a difference for close coexistence. We’ve found on DxPeditions that an upgraded K3 with KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-590s also with KPA500, can coexist quite well with antennas about 300 ft apart. On most bands, we can operate SSB and CW simultaneously with tolerable QRM. Other times we have tried different high-end rigs in similar setup and found that opposite end of same-band operation was nearly impossible due to QRM. I suspect it’s mostly the receivers that makes the difference. 

Mark VA2MM

My experience is that the type of rig does make a difference for close coexistence. We’ve found on DxPeditions that an upgraded K3 with KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-590s also with KPA500, can coexist quite well with antennas about 300 ft apart. On most bands, we can operate SSB and CW simultaneously with tolerable QRM. Other times we have tried different high-end rigs in similar setup and found that opposite end of same-band operation was nearly impossible due to QRM. I suspect it’s mostly the receivers that makes the difference. 

Mark VA2MM

I would pop the HPA in and out a few times, maybe with some contact cleaner and maybe do the same with the front panel, although I'm not sure about this.  You have the ATU so this might not apply, but I don't and have found that the ground return to the output connector is via a standoff and screw and is really iffy.  I added a solder lug and a jumper wire to fix that intermittent.
Otherwise, I wouldn't spend the bucks for any upgrade unless you are a 6 or 10-meter op and need the preamp.  I say all of this as the owner of both a K3 and a K3S.
Wes  N7WS
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 04:41 PM, Christopher Scibelli wrote:

I have a K3, Serial # is about 2340, and it needs to be repaired.  I'm
getting the "12V Error" which Elecraft told me is due to not having gold
contacts in the PA section of the rig. I can only get 12 watts of output,
but for about a year this was intermittent.  Now, RF power never reverts
to the nominal 100 watts. It's always 12 watts.

I think they also said some of the front panel buttons needed to be
replaced with gold panel contacts as well, but this conversation was over
6 months ago and things were delayed due to medical issues.

I was told I'd be responsible for about 2 hours of lab time which I can
afford.  However, I, too, was going to have upgrades done so my K3 is as
close to a K3S as possible.

What mods did you have done to your K3 and what was the total bill?  I
have a fully loaded K3 aside from the 2nd receiver.  5 INRAD filters, the
ATU, voice recorder, general coverage receiver, and all other options
aside from the 2nd receiver which from my 10 years with the rig is
something I've decided I can do without.

I do need this repaired so I feel I may as well have some K3S mods done
while Elecraft has my rig.

Very 73,

Chris  NU1O

Merv
You are correct. I upgraded everything except the two synthesizers and it did cost me 1200. I did the suggested updates pluse the k3iob
Mel
NE9A
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
From: "Merv Schweigert" <merv.k9fd@gmail.com
<mailto:merv.k9fd@gmail.com>>
Date: Sat, November 02, 2019 7:18 pm
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io <mailto:Elecraft-K3@groups.io>
If you have had none of the updates done since #2340,  kiss more
than 1000 bucks good bye.
Lots of boards and updates to be done if you want it close to a K3S.
Merv K9FD

I have a K3, Serial # is about 2340, and it needs to be repaired. I'm getting the "12V Error" which Elecraft told me is due to not
having gold contacts in the PA section of the rig. I can only get
12 watts of output, but for about a year this was intermittent. Now, RF power never reverts to the nominal 100 watts. It's always
12 watts.

I think they also said some of the front panel buttons needed to
be replaced with gold panel contacts as well, but this
conversation was over 6 months ago and things were delayed due to
medical issues.

I was told I'd be responsible for about 2 hours of lab time which
I can afford.  However, I, too, was going to have upgrades done so
my K3 is as close to a K3S as possible.

What mods did you have done to your K3 and what was the total
bill?  I have a fully loaded K3 aside from the 2nd receiver.  5
INRAD filters, the ATU, voice recorder, general coverage receiver,
and all other options aside from the 2nd receiver which from my 10
years with the rig is something I've decided I can do without.

I do need this repaired so I feel I may as well have some K3S mods
done while Elecraft has my rig.

Very 73,

Chris  NU1O

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
From: "Christopher Scibelli via Groups.Io" <nu1oscar@...>
Date: Sat, November 02, 2019 9:05 pm
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io

Do you feel it was worth the cost?

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Marcus <melm@...>
To: Elecraft-K3 <Elecraft-K3@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 2, 2019 9:00 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued

Merv

You are correct. I upgraded everything except the two synthesizers and it did cost me 1200. I did the suggested updates pluse the k3iob

Mel

NE9A

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
From: "Merv Schweigert" <merv.k9fd@...>
Date: Sat, November 02, 2019 7:18 pm
To: Elecraft-K3@groups.io

If you have had none of the updates done since #2340,  kiss more than 1000 bucks good bye.
Lots of boards and updates to be done if you want it close to a K3S.
Merv K9FD

I have a K3, Serial # is about 2340, and it needs to be repaired.  I'm getting the "12V Error" which Elecraft told me is due to not having gold contacts in the PA section of the rig. I can only get 12 watts of output, but for about a year this was intermittent.  Now, RF power never reverts to the nominal 100 watts. It's always 12 watts.

I think they also said some of the front panel buttons needed to be replaced with gold panel contacts as well, but this conversation was over 6 months ago and things were delayed due to medical issues.

I was told I'd be responsible for about 2 hours of lab time which I can afford.  However, I, too, was going to have upgrades done so my K3 is as close to a K3S as possible.

What mods did you have done to your K3 and what was the total bill?  I have a fully loaded K3 aside from the 2nd receiver.  5 INRAD filters, the ATU, voice recorder, general coverage receiver, and all other options aside from the 2nd receiver which from my 10 years with the rig is something I've decided I can do without.

I do need this repaired so I feel I may as well have some K3S mods done while Elecraft has my rig.  

Very 73,

Chris  NU1O

I'm now in the shack and see my SN is #2341.  I'm pretty sure this was bought in late 2008 but I got busy with a work project and the kit wasn't finished until  2010.

The tech said it needed gold contacts so I'm sending it in whether I add K3S mods or not. I'd like the 12V out to be increased to an Amp. versus 500mA, and I have some other changes which I'd prefer they do. Deoxit may get me back to 100W but the problem will likely reoccur until those contacts are changed to gold contacts.

Thanks for chiming in, Grant!

Chris

-Original Message-----
From: GRANT YOUNGMAN <ghyoungman@...>
To: Elecraft-K3 <Elecraft-K3@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 2, 2019 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued

I bought my K3 in late 2007 (ser 2091). Over the years I put every factory-recommended hardware mod and every new updated board in it — DSP, synthesizers, KIO3B, VLF updates, etc.  IMO, it was worth the price.  Better audio, reduced phase noise, VLF coverage, etc.

None of these mods impact “selectivity” directly.  All of them made the K3 a better radio.  Even doing the majority of these updates myself, it was still somewhat expensive when a board needed to be replaced.  Still worth it.  Never looked back.

I know a lot of folks will tell you to just spritz some DeOxit or something on the FB board and KPA3 pins, but long term you’re better off with the gold pin updates.  And better off with all of the updates  applicable to your serial number if you plan to keep the radio.  The original K3 was a very good radio.  An updated K3 is a better radio.

Grant NQ5T


> On Nov 2, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Christopher Scibelli via Groups.Io <nu1oscar=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Do you not notice a difference on receive between the K3 and K3S, or simply feel the difference isn't worth the money?
>
> I ask the question because I have two hams who are very close to me.  The one on the next street over is within a 7 iron shot, but he doesn't have a beam and he mostly stays on 80 meters with a small amp., whereas I hardly use 80 meters.  The ham two streets over has a small beam on a roof tower, a KPA500 and a Kenwood TS-890.  During the 10 meter contest I usually have to get about 50 khz away from him, but I'm getting rumblings that I may be QRMing him on the whole band.  We aren't close friends so we rarely speak and he's not very active.  I use an Alpha 8410, and a 10 Element tribander atop a 55 foot US Tower.
>
> I was hoping for some more selectivity but if it's just a dB or two, I would just keep the rig as a K3.
>
> Thanks and 73,
>
> NU1O
>
>
>