Date   

Re: [Elecraft_K3] Just Received K3S.

kk7p
 

I think you may find that the RS232 OUTPUT is active when on USB so the data going TO the USB port MAY still be going out the RS232 Tx data pin as well.  But the ACC connector is definitely active and band data is available on it regardless of USB or RS232 selection.

73,

Lyle KK7P

On 7/4/15 1:18 PM, w9tvx@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

Just received a new K3S serial number 10015. I have moved to this radio from a TS990 . Obviously very different radios, but so far I am impressed. 


I will say one big disappointment is that it seems you can't have both the USB and RS232 ports active for CAT data. This was actually something I was really excited aboutl, because I could connect my computer via the USB port and use the RS232 port to send band data to my amp. I would love to be proved wrong on this count? 


Not sure if it is possible to re mediate this via firmware or if it is a hardware constraint. 


I'll try and set up virtual com ports to see if I can work around this





Just Received K3S.

w9tvx@...
 

Just received a new K3S serial number 10015. I have moved to this radio from a TS990 . Obviously very different radios, but so far I am impressed. 


I will say one big disappointment is that it seems you can't have both the USB and RS232 ports active for CAT data. This was actually something I was really excited aboutl, because I could connect my computer via the USB port and use the RS232 port to send band data to my amp. I would love to be proved wrong on this count? 


Not sure if it is possible to re mediate this via firmware or if it is a hardware constraint. 


I'll try and set up virtual com ports to see if I can work around this




Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

OK, as stated, I ran the peak hold which actually the average with a
setting of 20.
Peak Hold and Average are completely different settings. If you are
setting average to 20, you are not using peak hold.

You have to perform the test to see it your self.
I have run peak-hold while watching several of the local AM stations.
The "hold" line reliably settles to -6dB relative to carrier within
one or two dB over several minutes of time while a 20 period average
is often -15 or -20 dB compared to carrier.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-03 6:54 PM, farrerfolks@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
OK, as stated, I ran the peak hold which actually the average with a setting of 20. No difference, sorry.

You have to perform the test to see it your self. No more on this thread unless P3 tech support joins in.. Tired of repeating myself..

Mel K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3S arrived

Wes
 

Mine arrived five minutes ago.  Haven't even opened the box yet.  After taking it out of the UPS guy's hands, I had to wash mine and damp wipe the box. I think UPS uses their trucks to haul coal after dark. 

K3S100 F  S/N to follow.

Too bad the line noise is still S9+

Wes  N7WS


On 7/3/2015 11:49 AM, lists@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

My card was charged on Wednesday and the radio went onto the UPS truck Thursday night. I'm expecting it next Thursday. It'll be my first-ever Elecraft product so I'm anxious to start playing once I rebuild the entire shack. I ordered mine on the Friday at Hamvention, a nicely equipped, factory assembled K3S and P3 combination. Despite the extended delay I found the customer service from Elecraft was pretty good on the phone. My only complaint was that it took them 6 weeks to do an accurate shipping update on their Website.





Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

farrerfolks@...
 

OK, as stated, I ran the peak hold which actually the average with a setting of 20.  No difference, sorry.

You have to perform the test to see it your self.  No more on this thread unless P3 tech support joins in..  Tired of repeating myself..

Mel  K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

But the difference is the display is the question. WHY?
Are you using the peak hold mode for voice modulation as Al ask
and I told you how to enable? There is a significant difference
between a static display of 1 KHz modulation and the dynamic
display of voice modulation. When you enable averaging, the
sideband level will appear lower based on the length of each
dynamic element as a percentage to the total averaging time.

*USE PEAK HOLD* and see if the peaks in the sidebands aren't
close to -6dB compared to the carrier.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-03 2:53 PM, Mel Farrer farrerfolks@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
Yes, Joe,
But the difference is the display is the question. WHY? My 8920 show proper power distribution on the sidebands, the P 3does not!!!!!!!


Mel, K6KBE
From: "'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@subich.com [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB


> Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
> carrier on the bird.


Which is, of course, illegal as soon as he modulates the transmitter.
A 100% modulated 1 KW AM signal is 4KW PEP ... the legal limit (in the
US) for AM is now 375 W carrier => 1500 W PEP just like every other
mode.


With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
> 20-25 dB down from the carrier.


You are not measuring peak audio components - you are measuring the
average audio level. Instead of average, select MENU:PEAK to turn
on "spectrum peak hold" and set averaging to the minimum.


73,


... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-03 1:29 PM, farrerfolks@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
OK, Alan, Thanks for the input.

Here goes. I am monitoring a friend near by, 15 miles. I took care
to have him set up the 100 W SSB station and his 1KW AM station like
this.

In CW mode, send a 100 W measured carrier. I recorded the level on
the P3. Then had him transmit normal voice levels and the peak SSB
audio components reached the same level as the CW signal on the P3.

Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
carrier on the bird. I recorded the level on the P3, ~1-2 dB of 10
dB more than the CW signal. Same antenna on both.

I had him transmit a 1 KHz tone 100 % modulated and yes, the 1 KHz
was 6 db below the carrier at 1 KW on the P3.

Now I had him talk to the 100% modulation point on the AM
transmitter.

With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
20-25 dB down from the carrier.

If the premise is that a 100% modulated AM signal has 50% of the
power in the sidebands and 25% on each side, that is 500 watts total
audio and 250 watts on each side. So the level should be only 6 dB
down from the carrier.

The only difference is the complex audio components vs the signal
tone. So why is the SSB signal peaking at the 100 watt level and the
AM signal 10 to 15 dB lower?

Comments appreciated....

Mel, K6KBE
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Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

Mel Farrer <farrerfolks@...>
 

Yes, Joe,

But the difference is the display is the question.  WHY?  My 8920 show proper power distribution on the sidebands, the P 3does not!!!!!!!


Mel, K6KBE


From: "'Joe Subich, W4TV' lists@... [Elecraft_K3]"
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

 

> Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
> carrier on the bird.

Which is, of course, illegal as soon as he modulates the transmitter.
A 100% modulated 1 KW AM signal is 4KW PEP ... the legal limit (in the
US) for AM is now 375 W carrier => 1500 W PEP just like every other
mode.

> With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
> 20-25 dB down from the carrier.

You are not measuring peak audio components - you are measuring the
average audio level. Instead of average, select MENU:PEAK to turn
on "spectrum peak hold" and set averaging to the minimum.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-07-03 1:29 PM, farrerfolks@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
> OK, Alan, Thanks for the input.
>
> Here goes. I am monitoring a friend near by, 15 miles. I took care
> to have him set up the 100 W SSB station and his 1KW AM station like
> this.
>
> In CW mode, send a 100 W measured carrier. I recorded the level on
> the P3. Then had him transmit normal voice levels and the peak SSB
> audio components reached the same level as the CW signal on the P3.
>
> Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
> carrier on the bird. I recorded the level on the P3, ~1-2 dB of 10
> dB more than the CW signal. Same antenna on both.
>
> I had him transmit a 1 KHz tone 100 % modulated and yes, the 1 KHz
> was 6 db below the carrier at 1 KW on the P3.
>
> Now I had him talk to the 100% modulation point on the AM
> transmitter.
>
> With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
> 20-25 dB down from the carrier.
>
> If the premise is that a 100% modulated AM signal has 50% of the
> power in the sidebands and 25% on each side, that is 500 watts total
> audio and 250 watts on each side. So the level should be only 6 dB
> down from the carrier.
>
> The only difference is the complex audio components vs the signal
> tone. So why is the SSB signal peaking at the 100 watt level and the
> AM signal 10 to 15 dB lower?
>
> Comments appreciated....
>
> Mel, K6KBE
>



Re: K3S arrived

Peter Dougherty
 

My card was charged on Wednesday and the radio went onto the UPS truck Thursday night. I'm expecting it next Thursday. It'll be my first-ever Elecraft product so I'm anxious to start playing once I rebuild the entire shack. I ordered mine on the Friday at Hamvention, a nicely equipped, factory assembled K3S and P3 combination. Despite the extended delay I found the customer service from Elecraft was pretty good on the phone. My only complaint was that it took them 6 weeks to do an accurate shipping update on their Website.


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
carrier on the bird.
Which is, of course, illegal as soon as he modulates the transmitter.
A 100% modulated 1 KW AM signal is 4KW PEP ... the legal limit (in the
US) for AM is now 375 W carrier => 1500 W PEP just like every other
mode.

With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
20-25 dB down from the carrier.
You are not measuring peak audio components - you are measuring the
average audio level. Instead of average, select MENU:PEAK to turn
on "spectrum peak hold" and set averaging to the minimum.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-03 1:29 PM, farrerfolks@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
OK, Alan, Thanks for the input.

Here goes. I am monitoring a friend near by, 15 miles. I took care
to have him set up the 100 W SSB station and his 1KW AM station like
this.

In CW mode, send a 100 W measured carrier. I recorded the level on
the P3. Then had him transmit normal voice levels and the peak SSB
audio components reached the same level as the CW signal on the P3.

Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW
carrier on the bird. I recorded the level on the P3, ~1-2 dB of 10
dB more than the CW signal. Same antenna on both.

I had him transmit a 1 KHz tone 100 % modulated and yes, the 1 KHz
was 6 db below the carrier at 1 KW on the P3.

Now I had him talk to the 100% modulation point on the AM
transmitter.

With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were
20-25 dB down from the carrier.

If the premise is that a 100% modulated AM signal has 50% of the
power in the sidebands and 25% on each side, that is 500 watts total
audio and 250 watts on each side. So the level should be only 6 dB
down from the carrier.

The only difference is the complex audio components vs the signal
tone. So why is the SSB signal peaking at the 100 watt level and the
AM signal 10 to 15 dB lower?

Comments appreciated....

Mel, K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

farrerfolks@...
 

Added note.

In my lab, I set up the following:  Advert 7200A signal generator and HP 8920A analyzer.

All tests prove that a AM 100 % modulation carrier the sidebands are ALWAYS 6 dB down from the carrier.....

This is regardless of the absolute level power level mW to MW. 

How come the 8920A on some local BC stations shows this to be true to the above and the P3 does not.............

Not a problem, just a interesting issue about the algorithms used I guess.

Mel, K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

David McClain
 

… I’d love to hear the answers from somebody who really knows… by my speculation is that they need to drop the power output on AM because it emits a steady carrier, while in SSB mode those peaks are ms duration peaks, and can be easily handled by the instantaneous power available from capacitors and with endurable dissipation in the final transistors. But for those power levels under steady carrier conditions it would be intolerable to the finals and the power supply is insufficient.

- 73 de Dave, N7AIG


On Jul 3, 2015, at 10:29 AM, farrerfolks@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

OK, Alan, Thanks for the input.

Here goes.  I am monitoring a friend near by, 15 miles.  I took care to have him set up the 100 W SSB station and his 1KW AM station like this.

In CW mode, send a 100 W measured carrier.  I recorded the level on the P3.  Then had him transmit normal voice levels and the peak SSB audio components reached the same level as the CW signal on the P3.  

Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW carrier on the bird.  I recorded the level on the P3, ~1-2 dB of 10 dB more than the CW signal.  Same antenna on both.

I had him transmit a 1 KHz tone 100 % modulated and yes, the 1 KHz was 6 db below the carrier at 1 KW on the P3.

Now I had him talk to the 100% modulation point on the AM transmitter.

With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were 20-25 dB down from the carrier.

If the premise is that a 100% modulated AM signal has 50% of the power in the sidebands and 25% on each side, that is 500 watts total audio and 250 watts on each side.  So the level should be only 6 dB down from the carrier.

The only difference is the complex audio components vs the signal tone.  So why is the SSB signal peaking at the 100 watt level and the AM signal 10 to 15 dB lower?

Comments appreciated....

Mel, K6KBE



Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

farrerfolks@...
 

OK, Alan, Thanks for the input.

Here goes.  I am monitoring a friend near by, 15 miles.  I took care to have him set up the 100 W SSB station and his 1KW AM station like this.

In CW mode, send a 100 W measured carrier.  I recorded the level on the P3.  Then had him transmit normal voice levels and the peak SSB audio components reached the same level as the CW signal on the P3. 

Then I had him set up his RCA AM transmitter to monitored 1 KW carrier on the bird.  I recorded the level on the P3, ~1-2 dB of 10 dB more than the CW signal.  Same antenna on both.

I had him transmit a 1 KHz tone 100 % modulated and yes, the 1 KHz was 6 db below the carrier at 1 KW on the P3.

Now I had him talk to the 100% modulation point on the AM transmitter.

With the Peak averaging set to max, the side band AM signals were 20-25 dB down from the carrier.

If the premise is that a 100% modulated AM signal has 50% of the power in the sidebands and 25% on each side, that is 500 watts total audio and 250 watts on each side.  So the level should be only 6 dB down from the carrier.

The only difference is the complex audio components vs the signal tone.  So why is the SSB signal peaking at the 100 watt level and the AM signal 10 to 15 dB lower?

Comments appreciated....

Mel, K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S arrived

rich matos
 

serial number 10004

On 7/3/2015 6:52 AM, Steven Stuckey ac9gkx@... [Elecraft_K3] wrote:
 

Bill yes serial number.

Steven Stuckey AC9GK

On Jul 2, 2015 10:14 PM, "William Conkling bconk75@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
 
Serial number?



...nr4c. bill


On Jul 2, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

well, got the new K3S today , hooking it up and listing as i type this.
have owned several K3 thru the years . so familiar with them.
first thoughts , i think the audio sounds better and the receiver seems
quieter.
also the new style knob and that area looks very nice .
what a great company ! i was treated very nicely, not just this time
but always.
"Rich"

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Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S arrived

Steven Stuckey (AC9GK)
 

Bill,

Cool and thanks I am still waiting for mine.

73
Steven AC9GK

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
 

ordered on 5/7, 

(actually ordered a k3 ,was told there was none available they were waiting for parts told to
check back in about a week or so and they would see  if the parts they needed  were in .
at that time i was told of The new K3S and did i want that instead.)
serial number is 10004
"Rich"
 

When did you order it? What sn did you get?

73
Steven Stuckey AC9GK

On Jul 2, 2015 2:38 PM, "Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
 

well, got the new K3S today , hooking it up and listing as i type this.
have owned several K3 thru the years . so familiar with them.
first thoughts , i think the audio sounds better and the receiver seems
quieter.
also the new style knob and that area looks very nice .
what a great company ! i was treated very nicely, not just this time
but always.
"Rich"

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--
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Re: Is there a new TCXO control?

willcoele@...
 

I think very small frequency drift is a function of the ADF4001.  Starting at page 6, Read the ADF4001 data sheet.  You can download it from Analog Devices web page.

Jack WA9FVP
Willco Electronics.


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S arrived

rich matos
 

ordered on 5/7, 
(actually ordered a k3 ,was told there was none available they were waiting for parts told to
check back in about a week or so and they would see  if the parts they needed  were in .
at that time i was told of The new K3S and did i want that instead.)
serial number is 10004
"Rich"

 

When did you order it? What sn did you get?

73
Steven Stuckey AC9GK

On Jul 2, 2015 2:38 PM, "Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
 

well, got the new K3S today , hooking it up and listing as i type this.
have owned several K3 thru the years . so familiar with them.
first thoughts , i think the audio sounds better and the receiver seems
quieter.
also the new style knob and that area looks very nice .
what a great company ! i was treated very nicely, not just this time
but always.
"Rich"

---
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Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S arrived

Steven Stuckey (AC9GK)
 

Bill yes serial number.

Steven Stuckey AC9GK

On Jul 2, 2015 10:14 PM, "William Conkling bconk75@... [Elecraft_K3]" <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:
 

Serial number?



...nr4c. bill


On Jul 2, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

well, got the new K3S today , hooking it up and listing as i type this.
have owned several K3 thru the years . so familiar with them.
first thoughts , i think the audio sounds better and the receiver seems
quieter.
also the new style knob and that area looks very nice .
what a great company ! i was treated very nicely, not just this time
but always.
"Rich"

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Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3/P3 video display on AM vs SSB

Al N1AL
 

Hi Mel,

I'm trying to understand the test conditions. Are the 100W SSB signal and the 1 kW AM signal transmitted from the same station on the same antenna? If not, then no direct comparison can be made.

I can easily believe the sidebands of the AM signal are 20 to 30 dB below the carrier. Say the audio has a 10 dB peak-to-average ratio. Right away that puts the average power of each sideband at 6 + 10 = 16 dB below the carrier, assuming 100% peak modulation.

Furthermore, if the P3 span is 20 kHz, then each display point is roughly 40 Hz wide, perhaps 1/100 of the total sideband, assuming 4 kHz audio. That's another 20 dB.

Here's something to try: Turn on peak hold on the P3 and watch the AM signal for awhile as the program content varies between music, voice announcements, ads, etc. You'll probably notice the sidebands are much flatter and higher in amplitude on the peak trace than on the real-time trace.

Alan N1AL

On 07/02/2015 12:36 PM, farrerfolks@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3] wrote:


Yes, Alan, I understand all of that.

Here is the question. Why is the sideband power on AM on the same band,
75 M, less than the displayed signal on SSB.

An example. Watching the 100 watt signal on 3963 KHz SSB signal on the
P3, the envelop of the energy fills the IF KHz window and is smooth in
the display, if the audio is flat, to the top of the same RF level as
CW. With audio frequency variances allowed. While on the same settings
on a AM signal at 3870 KHz at 1KW carrier the sideband are 20 to 30 dB
lower and ragged in display.!!!!!!!!!!! All P3 settings the same......

If my math is correct, 100 w SSB and 1KW AM should have within ~3 dB the
same displayed sideband power level????? Where is my reasoning wrong???

Mel, K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3S arrived

William Conkling <bconk75@...>
 

Serial number?



...nr4c. bill


On Jul 2, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Rich w9cin@... [Elecraft_K3] <Elecraft_K3@...> wrote:

 

well, got the new K3S today , hooking it up and listing as i type this.
have owned several K3 thru the years . so familiar with them.
first thoughts , i think the audio sounds better and the receiver seems
quieter.
also the new style knob and that area looks very nice .
what a great company ! i was treated very nicely, not just this time
but always.
"Rich"

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Is there a new TCXO control?

David McClain
 

Hi,


I installed a pair of the new LO boards a few weeks ago, and today was playing around with watching the frequency stability of the K3. I didn't expect to see any changes as a result of the new LO, but it appears that something might have changed after all?


Attached pic shows a capture of a Rb reference tone at 7010 kHz, received in Rev CW mode (600 Hz nominal tone), after adjusting the Ref Freq to near zero beat against the Rb reference. As you can see, there is a slight drift in the frequency toward higher tones, but every so often there is an abrupt revision downward.


I'm running the K3 in TCXO mode - not locked to any external reference. This is the kind of behavior I used to see with the old LO boards when I had the K3 locked to the Rb reference. But that isn't the case here.


Looks like some new firmware added to monitor the TCXO??


73 de Dave, N7AIG



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