Date   

P3 spurious signals

farrerfolks <farrerfolks@...>
 

I have been playing with the P3 now for a week and while in the band segment I generally use, it has been excellent. However, While I had the K3 and P3 on, I disconnected the antenna to reroute it and notice alot of signals on the display. Not just a couple but dozens from 160 meters well past 80 meters. And three kinds,

1. A series of mixing products that crisscross the display as you tune the K3. This is like a picket fence in the 3 to 4 MHz range.
2. Very noisy carriers that are fixed frequency in the same range.
3. A slowly downward drifting signal starting at approx 3960 KHz that pulsed and had approx 240 modulation components in the sideband. Sounds like a display refresh. All can be heard on the K3 as you tune through the band.

These signals are in the range of -105 dbm level. With no antenna the noise floor is -140 dbm. When connecting the antenna, the noise floor is around -125 dbm. Interesting, that the signals do not change when the K3 preamp or ATT is selected. When you select one of the signals on the K3 and turn off the P3, they go away. Disconnecting the RS232 or the RF cable does not make them go away on the display.

I would like to know if this is something generic to the P3 or that I have a problem with my unit.

Mel, K6KBE


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3 display color

WA8JXM
 

On Dec 10, 2011, at 11:22 AM, n1rx wrote:

Everyone will -never- be happy. ;-)

Sure they will, as soon as someone develops a rig that can automatically work a contest plus work all DX stations on the air, even if the band is closed, work through to a DX station with an S1 signal in S8 noise 100 Hz off from a KW station that is 60 over 90. ;-)

Oh, did I mention a $500 price tag? And it would work just as well with a piece of hookup wire in the living room for an antenna.

Ken WA8JXM


Re: K3 display color

n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "Bob G3REP" <g3repcomms@...> wrote:

Perhaps the K4 will use the same display as the P3, then everyone will be happy ;-}

Bob G3REP
Everyone will -never- be happy. ;-)
73,
Bruce, N1RX


Re: K3 display color

Bob G3REP <g3repcomms@...>
 

Perhaps the K4 will use the same display as the P3, then everyone will be happy ;-}

Bob G3REP

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, N2ZDB@... wrote:

Hi Mel,

Looking to purchase a P3 real soon and would love to change the display
color in my K3 to white LEDs....that would make a great transceiver even
better!

Anyone know how easy this is to do???

73's Michael
n2zdb
http://n2zdb.com/n2zdb


In a message dated 12/9/2011 6:57:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
farrerfolks@... writes:





I know that!!!! It was a little ping to see who was reading. It would be
nice though, HI. BTW, both the K3 and the P3 are a work of art.


Mel, K6KBE





____________________________________
From: william conkling <bconk75@...>
To: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color




Aint gonna happen. The displays are two diffent technologies, I believe.

...bc


On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM, farrerfolks <_farrerfolks@..._
(mailto:farrerfolks@...) > wrote:





I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color
of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text
like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE












--
From my Droid...

...bc NR4C


Re: K3 display color

n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

It has been discussed on the main Elecraft reflector. It is not feasable to change the LED backlight in the k3 to another color. This is due to the way the front panel assembly is constructed.
Learn to love the stock amber color.
73,
Bruce, N1RX

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, N2ZDB@... wrote:

Hi Mel,

Looking to purchase a P3 real soon and would love to change the display
color in my K3 to white LEDs....that would make a great transceiver even
better!

Anyone know how easy this is to do???

73's Michael
n2zdb
http://n2zdb.com/n2zdb


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color

Michael
 

Hi Mel,
 
Looking to purchase a P3 real soon and would love to change the display color in my K3 to white LEDs....that would make a great transceiver even better!
 
Anyone know how easy this is to do???
 
73's Michael
n2zdb
http://n2zdb.com/n2zdb
 

In a message dated 12/9/2011 6:57:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, farrerfolks@... writes:
 

I know that!!!!  It was a little ping to see who was reading.  It would be nice though, HI.  BTW, both the K3 and the P3 are a work of art.

Mel, K6KBE


From: william conkling
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color

 
Aint gonna happen.  The displays are two diffent technologies, I believe.
 
...bc

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM, farrerfolks <farrerfolks@...> wrote:
 
I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE




--
From my Droid...

...bc  NR4C



Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color

Mel Farrer <farrerfolks@...>
 

I know that!!!!  It was a little ping to see who was reading.  It would be nice though, HI.  BTW, both the K3 and the P3 are a work of art.

Mel, K6KBE


From: william conkling
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color

 
Aint gonna happen.  The displays are two diffent technologies, I believe.
 
...bc

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM, farrerfolks <farrerfolks@...> wrote:
 
I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE




--
From my Droid...

...bc  NR4C



Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 display color

william conkling <bconk75@...>
 

Aint gonna happen.  The displays are two diffent technologies, I believe.
 
...bc

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM, farrerfolks <farrerfolks@...> wrote:
 

I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE




--
From my Droid...

...bc  NR4C


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3 display color

Mel Farrer <farrerfolks@...>
 

Thanks, Since none of the other displays in the shack match, it really doesn't matter, hi.

Mel, K6KBE


From: n1rx
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 8:54 AM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: K3 display color

 
No, You did not miss it. There is no option for changing the color. The LCD in the K3 is a completely different type that the P3. The transflective display allows you to see it with or without a backlight. So you can read it in bright daylight, or complete darkness.

Enjoy it the way it is.
73,
Bruce, N1RX

--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "farrerfolks" wrote:
>
> I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.
>
> Mel, K6KBE
>




Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: 2.4k tx filter is it possible?

N2TK, Tony
 

Glad you got it working Adrian.

Lots of good advice on this reflector has helped me out many times.

 

73,

N2TK, Tony

 

From: Elecraft_K3@... [mailto:Elecraft_K3@...] On Behalf Of vk4tux
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:30 AM
To: Elecraft_K3@...
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: 2.4k tx filter is it possible?

 

 



--- In Elecraft_K3@..., "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz@...> wrote:
>
> Adrian,
>
> I get full power out - 5-6 bars for both CMP and ALC.
>
> Some additional parameters involved with the audio:
>
> Vox GN 35
>
> Antivox 0
>
> Vox Delay .32
>
> The CM500 does not need much mike gain.

Thankyou Tony excellent advice., that and a firmware rollback seem to have things under control here now.

regards

Adrian ... vk4tux


Re: K3 display color

n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

No, You did not miss it. There is no option for changing the color. The LCD in the K3 is a completely different type that the P3. The transflective display allows you to see it with or without a backlight. So you can read it in bright daylight, or complete darkness.

Enjoy it the way it is.
73,
Bruce, N1RX

--- In Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com, "farrerfolks" <farrerfolks@...> wrote:

I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE


K3 display color

farrerfolks <farrerfolks@...>
 

I have the P3 and love the display. Did I miss where to change the color of the display in the K3? It would be great to have it blue with white text like the P3.

Mel, K6KBE


K3 internal tuner question

Rick Bates <HappyMoosePhoto@...>
 

Hello all,

 

The internal tuner on my K3 works great.  It’s much better than I expected.  However I’ve noticed something unexpected, so I’ll ask the list(s).

 

I’ve cleared the tuner memories (K3_EZ) and have gone to often used frequencies (local 75 meter nets for example) activated the tuner, which comes to 1:1.  Then over the course of the day, I’m elsewhere in the bands. 

 

When I come back to that net channel, I check the tuning before checking into the net.  The tuner clicks away and may come back with say a 3.4:1 match, so I tap it again and it settles on a 1:1 match and I operate.  The antenna (a EDZ wire) hasn’t moved, no significant weather (or bird) changes.

 

Am I wrong in my understanding that the tuner remembers the frequency and associated settings for that frequency (per antenna)? 

 

My other concern is that with the limitations of the HRD software (no SWR reading), I don’t know if the tuner settled on 6:1 or 1:1 (no audible clue either).

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Rick WA6NHC


Re: [Elecraft_K3] KAT500 update; interface

Rick Bates <HappyMoosePhoto@...>
 

Wayne,

Not to distract you from your work (which we want to you to finish), but can
you discuss the plans for interfacing the KAT500 into the K line?

Will it share a currently used serial chain or ACC port?
Will it be controllable via the K3 panel? Including all antenna switching?
Will the interface allow the tuner to be an antenna analyzer when connected
to a computer? (THAT would be HUGE.)

Yes, I now presume a certain level of robustness and elegance. Elecraft has
caused me to expect that in the K line. I fully admit I'm spoiled. ;-)

My um, observation is that the K line has reached the point that computer
management (or remote ops) will be far more complex. The current
management/remote software (except perhaps 'Remote Rig') is well behind the
curve, but should eventually catch up. Tying as much as possible together
(into one serial port) would go a long way in simplifying management; just
as full control (including amp on/standby; all antenna switching) from the
panel of the K3 would keep it all simple.

Thank you,

Rick WA6NHC


Re: [Elecraft_K3] Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update

ke9uw
 

Hear's a link to Roy Lewallen's paper on the ineffective input balun. He mentions Tom Rausch, W8JI who got to this conclusion first.

http://www.eznec.com/misc/ibalbrf.txt

Chuck, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

________________________________________
From: Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com [Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Wayne Burdick [n6kr@elecraft.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 11:34 AM
To: Oliver Johns
Cc: Elecraft Reflector; Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update

Hi Oliver,

Sorry to disappoint you. Here's what happened:

We originally planned a floating L-network with an input balun, and
that's how we wired the prototypes. But recently we studied this
configuration in depth, doing both a theoretical analysis and lab
measurements. We confirmed the findings of other researchers that the
input balun has no advantage over an output balun (more on this
below). Taking the balun out in favor of a third antenna jack will
reduce the cost of the ATU significantly and enhance utility, and
those who need a balanced feed can still use an external balun.

Now for the theory:

When a balun is located at the output, between the tuner and a
balanced line, one side of the balun transformer is connected to
ground at the tuner and the other is connected to one side of the
balanced line. The full RF voltage is then applied to the the balun
transformer. For a given balun design, if that voltage is high enough
then the balun transformer will overheat.

When the balun is located at the input, between the balanced feedline
and an unbalanced network, one side of the balun transformer is still
connected to ground, and the other is still connected to one side of
the balanced feedline. So the voltage applied to the balun is exactly
the same. Therefore there is no advantage to floating the network.
Doing so also greatly complicates the tuner and increases cost.

If anyone is interested in more detail, we could post a drawing, as
well as references.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 8, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Oliver Johns wrote:

Wayne,

When I talked to you briefly at the 2010 Pacificon, you seemed to
say that the KAT500 would be a "floating-L" design. That is, it
would contain an unbalanced L network, but that network and its
circuit board would be floating and not connected to the metal
enclosure. You said a balun would be put at the 50 ohm end, feeding
a SO239 connector for the coax to the rig. The floating-L could
then be connected to balanced lines, or to unbalanced ones by tying
one side of it to the case at the antenna end.

Now it seems that you are talking about a totally unbalanced tuner,
with no provision for balanced antenna feeders. Do you mean to add
an external balun on the *antenna* side of the tuner? Surely not.
That seems an inherently bad idea for many balanced lines. The
impedance there will be unpredictable, hence the need for the
tuner. Not a good place for a balun IMHO. But if you put the balun
on the 50 ohm end where it belongs, then the whole enclosure will be
tied to one side of the "balanced" line, which will likely unbalance
it.

What happened? I had hoped to put the KAT500 in a weatherproof box
of my own fabrication and use it between a balanced line to the
antenna and a coax feed back to the rig. It could live out near the
antenna, where it belongs.

73,

Oliver Johns
W6ODJ


On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

We originally had two antenna jacks on the KAT500, with one of them
switchable between balanced and unbalanced.

Recently we decided that a third antenna jack would provide greater
utility overall. (In my case, I'll be keeping a dummy load on the
third jack.) All three jacks will be unbalanced (SO239).

We're hoping to add a high-power, high-performance balun to our
product line sometime next year that will serve the needs of those
using balanced lines.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
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Re: [Elecraft_K3] KAT500 update

mikerodgerske5gbc
 

Ken, I've heard of no problems with them. I use the one inside a palstar manual tuner. Next to the k3 is my favorite piece of equipment. The fine graduated dials make returning to previous settings a breeze and the pep meter nice too. 

73
Mike R

Sent from my spy ring

Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
HF & Echolink

On Dec 8, 2011, at 7:08 AM, Ken <wa8jxm@...> wrote:

 


On Dec 7, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Mike Rodgers wrote:

Balun: a good hi power balun of Elecraft quality wil be welcome!


Is there anything wrong with the Palstar baluns?

Ken WA8JXM


Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update

 

Hi Oliver,

Sorry to disappoint you. Here's what happened:

We originally planned a floating L-network with an input balun, and that's how we wired the prototypes. But recently we studied this configuration in depth, doing both a theoretical analysis and lab measurements. We confirmed the findings of other researchers that the input balun has no advantage over an output balun (more on this below). Taking the balun out in favor of a third antenna jack will reduce the cost of the ATU significantly and enhance utility, and those who need a balanced feed can still use an external balun.

Now for the theory:

When a balun is located at the output, between the tuner and a balanced line, one side of the balun transformer is connected to ground at the tuner and the other is connected to one side of the balanced line. The full RF voltage is then applied to the the balun transformer. For a given balun design, if that voltage is high enough then the balun transformer will overheat.

When the balun is located at the input, between the balanced feedline and an unbalanced network, one side of the balun transformer is still connected to ground, and the other is still connected to one side of the balanced feedline. So the voltage applied to the balun is exactly the same. Therefore there is no advantage to floating the network. Doing so also greatly complicates the tuner and increases cost.

If anyone is interested in more detail, we could post a drawing, as well as references.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 8, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Oliver Johns wrote:

Wayne,

When I talked to you briefly at the 2010 Pacificon, you seemed to say that the KAT500 would be a "floating-L" design. That is, it would contain an unbalanced L network, but that network and its circuit board would be floating and not connected to the metal enclosure. You said a balun would be put at the 50 ohm end, feeding a SO239 connector for the coax to the rig. The floating-L could then be connected to balanced lines, or to unbalanced ones by tying one side of it to the case at the antenna end.

Now it seems that you are talking about a totally unbalanced tuner, with no provision for balanced antenna feeders. Do you mean to add an external balun on the *antenna* side of the tuner? Surely not. That seems an inherently bad idea for many balanced lines. The impedance there will be unpredictable, hence the need for the tuner. Not a good place for a balun IMHO. But if you put the balun on the 50 ohm end where it belongs, then the whole enclosure will be tied to one side of the "balanced" line, which will likely unbalance it.

What happened? I had hoped to put the KAT500 in a weatherproof box of my own fabrication and use it between a balanced line to the antenna and a coax feed back to the rig. It could live out near the antenna, where it belongs.

73,

Oliver Johns
W6ODJ


On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

We originally had two antenna jacks on the KAT500, with one of them
switchable between balanced and unbalanced.

Recently we decided that a third antenna jack would provide greater
utility overall. (In my case, I'll be keeping a dummy load on the
third jack.) All three jacks will be unbalanced (SO239).

We're hoping to add a high-power, high-performance balun to our
product line sometime next year that will serve the needs of those
using balanced lines.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
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Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update

Jim Miller <jim@...>
 

The "balun" needed on the output of an unbalanced tuner to accommodate an "balanced" feedline is no more than an appropriately designed common mode choke.
 
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf excellent practical descriptions, tests of real implementations and cookbook recommendations.
 
http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/articles/balun/ excellent mathematical treatment
 
 
73
 
jim ab3cv
 


Cut-down messages (was K3 TX IMD)

Rob Thomson
 

Bob
 
This assumes that people are using the Yahoo Groups pages to reply in the first place doesn't it?
 
I am guessing that most users (me included) just use their own mail program (Outlook Express in my case) as that is the way the mails are received.
 
Or am I missing something?
 
Regards
Rob, G4LMW

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:26 PM
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Re: Improving K3 TX IMD

A small suggestion to cut down on superfluous message "hanger-ons."

When you send a reply to a post or message, click the option that says Reply via web post and edit out all of the previous post that do not apply directly to your new post, i.e., the hanger-ons to which you are not replying, commenting, etc. That will not only make the discussion thread easier to follow, but it will also cut down on the storage requirements on the server and, if you archive everything, on your pc or mac as well.


Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 and tiny key clicks

 

We'll be posting this information once we've written up an app note.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:43 PM, mstangelo@comcast.net wrote:

I'm interested. Please share the information.

Mike N2MS

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Burdick <n6kr@elecraft.com>
To: Elecraft K3 <Elecraft_K3@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:09:10 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Elecraft_K3] K3 and tiny key clicks

Hi Lee,

The clicks are due to the fact that the K3 uses PIN diode switching of
all stages during T/R. The clicks fall off with frequency, and in some
cases might be noticed more on 160 m than other bands.

Normally this wouldn't be an issue. But coincidentally, we heard about
another customer using two K3s on 160 m (Tom, W8JI). Tom decided to
hunt for the source of clicks himself, with a little advice from yours
truly. Fortunately Tom found a reasonably simple way to completely
eliminate the clicks.

If you're interested in this mod, let me know.

73,
Wayne