Topics

FDM-SW2 system requirements

David
 

Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC

Marc Pilotte
 

While assisting Franco in our ELAD booth several years back at the first Xenia/Dayton hamfest....their was a used computer dealer, Erik from Select Computer Resources selling many older, but adequate, DELL, and other computers. I asked Franco to pick one out that would work w/my DUO. His pick was smolders DELL w/an i5 chip and 4 gb of RAM, and windows 7.  He took it back to his room and set it up for me and loaded the most current version of SW2 software. He brought it back the next day and advised me it ran fine on 4 gb of RAM. I later insty4 additional gb of RAM, and switched out the old HD with a SSD. Then I made a grave mistake. I deleted the windows 7 and put in 10. BIG MISTAKE!! I can’t run WSPR 
software! 

Here’s the best part. I just called Erik and he told me he would convert the system back to windows 7, AND put all the current info back on it. Not only that... he will load the old drive with all the info on it so it will be a 100% back up. Cost? <$50.00! if you need a computer to run your ELAD equipment, look no further than Erik! He WILL treat you right!
de WB9DBD 
Marc, Franklin, GA.
Ps.. I am not worried about the no update crap for 7.. I’m planning on te-installing eSET to take care of protection. window 10....👎🏻👎🏻

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:12 AM David via Groups.Io <david.g8iic=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC

Marc Pilotte
 

Sorry for the typos!!!

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:29 AM Marc Pilotte via Groups.Io <wb9dbd=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
While assisting Franco in our ELAD booth several years back at the first Xenia/Dayton hamfest....their was a used computer dealer, Erik from Select Computer Resources selling many older, but adequate, DELL, and other computers. I asked Franco to pick one out that would work w/my DUO. His pick was smolders DELL w/an i5 chip and 4 gb of RAM, and windows 7.  He took it back to his room and set it up for me and loaded the most current version of SW2 software. He brought it back the next day and advised me it ran fine on 4 gb of RAM. I later insty4 additional gb of RAM, and switched out the old HD with a SSD. Then I made a grave mistake. I deleted the windows 7 and put in 10. BIG MISTAKE!! I can’t run WSPR 
software! 

Here’s the best part. I just called Erik and he told me he would convert the system back to windows 7, AND put all the current info back on it. Not only that... he will load the old drive with all the info on it so it will be a 100% back up. Cost? <$50.00! if you need a computer to run your ELAD equipment, look no further than Erik! He WILL treat you right!
de WB9DBD 
Marc, Franklin, GA.
Ps.. I am not worried about the no update crap for 7.. I’m planning on te-installing eSET to take care of protection. window 10....👎🏻👎🏻

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:12 AM David via Groups.Io <david.g8iic=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC

David
 

Marc
Thanks. All your comments noted.  Forgot to say that I am running Avast AV software on the Sony, in case anyone wondered what I’m up to!

73’s

David. G8IIC


On 11 Nov 2019, at 13:29, Marc Pilotte <wb9dbd@...> wrote:

While assisting Franco in our ELAD booth several years back at the first Xenia/Dayton hamfest....their was a used computer dealer, Erik from Select Computer Resources selling many older, but adequate, DELL, and other computers. I asked Franco to pick one out that would work w/my DUO. His pick was smolders DELL w/an i5 chip and 4 gb of RAM, and windows 7.  He took it back to his room and set it up for me and loaded the most current version of SW2 software. He brought it back the next day and advised me it ran fine on 4 gb of RAM. I later insty4 additional gb of RAM, and switched out the old HD with a SSD. Then I made a grave mistake. I deleted the windows 7 and put in 10. BIG MISTAKE!! I can’t run WSPR 
software! 

Here’s the best part. I just called Erik and he told me he would convert the system back to windows 7, AND put all the current info back on it. Not only that... he will load the old drive with all the info on it so it will be a 100% back up. Cost? <$50.00! if you need a computer to run your ELAD equipment, look no further than Erik! He WILL treat you right!
de WB9DBD 
Marc, Franklin, GA.
Ps.. I am not worried about the no update crap for 7.. I’m planning on te-installing eSET to take care of protection. window 10....👎🏻👎🏻

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:12 AM David via Groups.Io <david.g8iic=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

With refurbished 8GB W10 laptops on ebay for £120, I just buy a new one now and then. OK, you might not get a camera or USB 3.0, the batteries might not last long, and the really cheap ones often have unknown BIOS passwords, but at that price they are almost disposable.  My portable SW2 setup is running on a 4GB machine I bought for £85.  CPU hits 30% at times, compared wiht the shack i7 PC at under 2%, and I can run WSJT-X and Airscout and a contest logger and KST without any problems.

Neil G4DBN

On 11/11/2019 13:44, David via Groups.Io wrote:
Marc
Thanks. All your comments noted.  Forgot to say that I am running Avast AV software on the Sony, in case anyone wondered what I’m up to!

73’s

David. G8IIC


On 11 Nov 2019, at 13:29, Marc Pilotte <wb9dbd@...> wrote:

While assisting Franco in our ELAD booth several years back at the first Xenia/Dayton hamfest....their was a used computer dealer, Erik from Select Computer Resources selling many older, but adequate, DELL, and other computers. I asked Franco to pick one out that would work w/my DUO. His pick was smolders DELL w/an i5 chip and 4 gb of RAM, and windows 7.  He took it back to his room and set it up for me and loaded the most current version of SW2 software. He brought it back the next day and advised me it ran fine on 4 gb of RAM. I later insty4 additional gb of RAM, and switched out the old HD with a SSD. Then I made a grave mistake. I deleted the windows 7 and put in 10. BIG MISTAKE!! I can’t run WSPR 
software! 

Here’s the best part. I just called Erik and he told me he would convert the system back to windows 7, AND put all the current info back on it. Not only that... he will load the old drive with all the info on it so it will be a 100% back up. Cost? <$50.00! if you need a computer to run your ELAD equipment, look no further than Erik! He WILL treat you right!
de WB9DBD 
Marc, Franklin, GA.
Ps.. I am not worried about the no update crap for 7.. I’m planning on te-installing eSET to take care of protection. window 10....👎🏻👎🏻

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:12 AM David via Groups.Io <david.g8iic=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC
-- 
Neil
<a href="http://g4dbn.uk/"><small>g4dbn.uk</small></a>

Marc Pilotte
 

Neil: thanks for the info. You are one of the smart ones! I’m not computer savvy.. but I need people to provide services for me, as I just can’t do all the fancy update stuff. I need people who can assist me as needed. I’ve found that company... buying off the internet and then sending something back for them to upgrade/fix.. etc.. don’t think it’ll happen. At least not anybody over here...and not anyone who doesn’t charge you 4x what it actually worth. AND is trustworthy. Thanks again!
de WB9DBD 
Marc 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:58 AM Neil Smith G4DBN <neil@...> wrote:

With refurbished 8GB W10 laptops on ebay for £120, I just buy a new one now and then. OK, you might not get a camera or USB 3.0, the batteries might not last long, and the really cheap ones often have unknown BIOS passwords, but at that price they are almost disposable.  My portable SW2 setup is running on a 4GB machine I bought for £85.  CPU hits 30% at times, compared wiht the shack i7 PC at under 2%, and I can run WSJT-X and Airscout and a contest logger and KST without any problems.

Neil G4DBN

On 11/11/2019 13:44, David via Groups.Io wrote:
Marc
Thanks. All your comments noted.  Forgot to say that I am running Avast AV software on the Sony, in case anyone wondered what I’m up to!

73’s

David. G8IIC


On 11 Nov 2019, at 13:29, Marc Pilotte <wb9dbd@...> wrote:

While assisting Franco in our ELAD booth several years back at the first Xenia/Dayton hamfest....their was a used computer dealer, Erik from Select Computer Resources selling many older, but adequate, DELL, and other computers. I asked Franco to pick one out that would work w/my DUO. His pick was smolders DELL w/an i5 chip and 4 gb of RAM, and windows 7.  He took it back to his room and set it up for me and loaded the most current version of SW2 software. He brought it back the next day and advised me it ran fine on 4 gb of RAM. I later insty4 additional gb of RAM, and switched out the old HD with a SSD. Then I made a grave mistake. I deleted the windows 7 and put in 10. BIG MISTAKE!! I can’t run WSPR 
software! 

Here’s the best part. I just called Erik and he told me he would convert the system back to windows 7, AND put all the current info back on it. Not only that... he will load the old drive with all the info on it so it will be a 100% back up. Cost? <$50.00! if you need a computer to run your ELAD equipment, look no further than Erik! He WILL treat you right!
de WB9DBD 
Marc, Franklin, GA.
Ps.. I am not worried about the no update crap for 7.. I’m planning on te-installing eSET to take care of protection. window 10....👎🏻👎🏻

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:12 AM David via Groups.Io <david.g8iic=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC
-- 
Neil
<a href="http://g4dbn.uk/"><small>g4dbn.uk</small></a>

Alan
 

With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).
David

If you have no personal data on it why bother? If it works for your purposes then what is the risk?

73 Alan G4ZFQ

David
 

Thanks to Alan and Neil - all comments being carefully considered!

David

On 11 Nov 2019, at 14:30, Alan via Groups.Io <alanzfq=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:


With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).
David

If you have no personal data on it why bother? If it works for your purposes then what is the risk?

73 Alan G4ZFQ


Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Hi David,

I have made good experience with purchasing 'refurbished' Notebooks which are quite likely Leasing returns from
Corporate Companies. I have bought 4 Notebooks this way over the last few years from Companies that specialise
on reselling.
Over here in DL-Land they classify the condition of the Notebook either with class A (used with minor signs of wear)
or class B (heavy signs of wear).
The ones I bought were all class A.
Some of the resellers even include a 1 year warranty.

The last machine I bought 3 months ago, a Dell 6440, i5-4310M CPU, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, back-lit keyboard,
dual-Graphics card, Win10 64 installed, for 200 Euros. The other machines were 2x Fujitsu and a HP 2170p
(small Notebook) 2 or 3 years ago.

Before buying a machine, I'd strongly recommend reading the hardware maintenance manual for that machine.
This documentation in full detail is available on the manufacturer website at least in the case of DELL, HP and
Lenovo Notebooks.

Why this? Because it gives insight into how the machine is laid out internally and what kind of effort it means
if you e.g. want to swap a harddisk, SSD etc. or open the machine for cleaning (fan).
Most of the more recent Notebooks I have looked at have no service door etc. on the bottom side any more
or are more difficult to get open: lot of screws, whole bottom cover needs to be removed by the help of a tool,
a sometimes quite delicate process. Can be quite cumbersome.

For the targeted CPU performance: you may visit the 'Passmark' website (cpubenchmark.net) for reference.

From there e.g.:
Pentium T4200 CPU: Average CPU Mark 1152
i5-4300M CPU: Average CPU Mark 4446

73, Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 14:12 schrieb David via Groups.Io:

Currently running an FDM-DUO (and DUO-ART 120) with a 10-year old Sony laptop. No digital modes at present.  Laptop has Pentium T4200 processor and Mobile Intel 4500MHD graphics card and I have had no problems running SW2 software.
With the impending ending of support for Windows 7, I'm intending to buy a new Windows laptop - purely to use in the "shack", which is the house cellar (basement).  I use Macs for all non-ham activities and they are not in the cellar - the only other software run on the cellar laptop is Firefox.  I do not intend to buy a Mac and use Parallels for the shack.

What are the minimum system requirements for a PC for FDM-SW2?  I appreciate that some people run quite sophisticated machines, but I was thinking of just 4GB of RAM with 64-bit Windows 10  and a 128GB SSD.  Any comments on processor?  Any advice welcomed.

Thanks in anticipation.

David  G8IIC


AndersH
 

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439

David
 

Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439

Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Hi David, Anders, and Group,

A long post follows ;-)

These 'refurbished' Notebooks, which typically come out of finished Leasing contracts
of Corporate Customers, are what can be indeed called 'Corporate' machines.
Opposite to 'Consumer' machines.

There is a definite adder of 'designed-in' and 'build-in' quality and longevity
which comes with 'Corporate' machines. For a simple reason, one might imagine ;-)
OTOH, they are not specifically designed for running games on such a machine.
Thus the graphics part *typically* is implemented as an 'integrated graphics'
(no dedicated graphics chip).
With the exception of (Notebook) machines targeting the Workstation segment
(industrial design etc. applications which require a lot of graphics power, e.g.
3D-performance). (We don't need - so far - high 3D-performance for 'average'
HAM Radio applications).

Some limitations, though: these 'Corporate' machines, the majority I'd say,
come with screen sizes at 14 inch or less, some (few) with 15.x inch screens.
Simple reason: a 14" Notebook is significantly smaller than a 15.6" (or so)
machine. And somewhat lighter as well. And these machines had to travel with
and carried by the owner (field staff).

What should be also looked at before a buying decision of such (or in general)
a Notebook machine: LCD Screen Resolution!

Because you *cannot* exchange the LCD screen in a Notebook machine in a
simple manner. At least *not* at all the physical size.

So, what I would like to strongly recommend, before a buy, is to consider in detail,
what you'll need to have ON your screen (application windows) simultaneously,
given your targeted application/working scenario.
A standard 1280 resolution might quite likely not be 'good' enough to have
multiple windows open at the very same time.

OTOH, at a given screen size, say 15.x inches, the higher the resolution is
(e.g. at 1920 / full HD), the smaller the Icons, Buttons etc. will get on this screen.
Especially important for the visually impaired among us!

Of course one could use an external monitor (any size) attached to the Notebook
and get around this limitation. Then, IMHO, I would admittedly question the need
for a Notebook vs. some 'Small Size PC' (small box).

73, Klaus, DK3QN

(former VP&GM Siemens-Nixdorf Notebook Divison, VP Fujitsu-Siemens until 2009)


Am 11.11.2019 um 18:56 schrieb David via Groups.Io:

Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439


Alan
 

AndersH


My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.
A drive clone is a reasonably easy way of preserving an installation, just needs to be copied to restore.
Of course one day you will want more power or something breaks that cannot be replaced.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Anders,

Get 2 pcs. of  2.5 inch HDD (rotating disk(s), no SSD, IF cost is a
constraint)
at required capacity and do a 1:1 (physical copy) of your well-running and
sound Win7 installation as a back-up.
Software for performing this task can be had at no cost off the Internet.

The cost for 2.5" HDDs @ 500GB is next to nothing. SSD is abt. 2x cost.

Any updates to Win7 will be suspended by MS anyway within the next few
months.

IF your Win7 installation on the internal disk in your Notebook screws up
for some reason: just exchange HDD/SSD and you are ready to go again.

That's why I keep an eye on how easy it is to change an HDD/SSD in a
Notebook PC. I do not want to make this a full weekend adventure!

Reason for 2 backup HDDs/SSDs: do your backup according to the
"Father - Son" principle.

73, Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 20:21 schrieb Alan via Groups.Io:

AndersH


My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk
gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.
A drive clone is a reasonably easy way of preserving an installation,
just needs to be copied to restore.
Of course one day you will want more power or something breaks that
cannot be replaced.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

David
 

Thanks again, Klaus, for your input.  I’m tempted to go for a smaller machine - though that wouldn’t give me any cost saving on a new machine it would seem.  I do not intend multiple applications on the shack.

My understanding is that many cheaper laptops do have integrated graphics - I did have a Lenovo laptop running windows 8 then Windows 10 for a couple of years until the graphics chip failed and was advised it was uneconomic to repair - something I am now bearing in mind.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 19:00, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David, Anders, and Group,

A long post follows ;-)

These 'refurbished' Notebooks, which typically come out of finished Leasing contracts
of Corporate Customers, are what can be indeed called 'Corporate' machines.
Opposite to 'Consumer' machines.

There is a definite adder of 'designed-in' and 'build-in' quality and longevity
which comes with 'Corporate' machines. For a simple reason, one might imagine ;-)
OTOH, they are not specifically designed for running games on such a machine.
Thus the graphics part *typically* is implemented as an 'integrated graphics'
(no dedicated graphics chip).
With the exception of (Notebook) machines targeting the Workstation segment
(industrial design etc. applications which require a lot of graphics power, e.g.
3D-performance). (We don't need - so far - high 3D-performance for 'average'
HAM Radio applications).

Some limitations, though: these 'Corporate' machines, the majority I'd say,
come with screen sizes at 14 inch or less, some (few) with 15.x inch screens.
Simple reason: a 14" Notebook is significantly smaller than a 15.6" (or so)
machine. And somewhat lighter as well. And these machines had to travel with
and carried by the owner (field staff).

What should be also looked at before a buying decision of such (or in general)
a Notebook machine: LCD Screen Resolution!

Because you *cannot* exchange the LCD screen in a Notebook machine in a
simple manner. At least *not* at all the physical size.

So, what I would like to strongly recommend, before a buy, is to consider in detail,
what you'll need to have ON your screen (application windows) simultaneously,
given your targeted application/working scenario.
A standard 1280 resolution might quite likely not be 'good' enough to have
multiple windows open at the very same time.

OTOH, at a given screen size, say 15.x inches, the higher the resolution is
(e.g. at 1920 / full HD), the smaller the Icons, Buttons etc. will get on this screen.
Especially important for the visually impaired among us!

Of course one could use an external monitor (any size) attached to the Notebook
and get around this limitation. Then, IMHO, I would admittedly question the need
for a Notebook vs. some 'Small Size PC' (small box).

73, Klaus, DK3QN

(former VP&GM Siemens-Nixdorf Notebook Divison, VP Fujitsu-Siemens until 2009)


Am 11.11.2019 um 18:56 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439


Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Hi David,

As I already wrote: it depends quite much on what machine you've got back then:
'Corporate' or 'Consumer'.

Plus: for 2nd hand machines: it is quite key to observe the thermal status of the machine.
As after a couple of years of  usage, the thermal paste, connecting the CPU Top plate to
the cooling system may have vapored so much that there is not enough heat transferred
from the CPU (with e.g. internal graphics) to the cooling system.
If not corrected properly, these parts will just die due to a thermal death.
Just because there is not enough thermal transfer from the chip(s) to the heatsink.

It's an easy fix, as long as you can get to the insides of the machine real easy.
That's why I 'stress' this 'accessibility' issue so much! It's KEY!

It then takes some cleaning-off of the old paste and add a small drop of new thermal
paste atop of the CPU to get this in shape back again.

In addition, cleaning the internal fan from any dust etc. in, say, a yearly sequence,
to be absolutely on the safe side, is also quite key.

The one major reason why Notebooks (internal PCB related) die: thermal problems.
You can be assured!

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 21:07 schrieb David via Groups.Io:

Thanks again, Klaus, for your input.  I’m tempted to go for a smaller machine - though that wouldn’t give me any cost saving on a new machine it would seem.  I do not intend multiple applications on the shack.

My understanding is that many cheaper laptops do have integrated graphics - I did have a Lenovo laptop running windows 8 then Windows 10 for a couple of years until the graphics chip failed and was advised it was uneconomic to repair - something I am now bearing in mind.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 19:00, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David, Anders, and Group,

A long post follows ;-)

These 'refurbished' Notebooks, which typically come out of finished Leasing contracts
of Corporate Customers, are what can be indeed called 'Corporate' machines.
Opposite to 'Consumer' machines.

There is a definite adder of 'designed-in' and 'build-in' quality and longevity
which comes with 'Corporate' machines. For a simple reason, one might imagine ;-)
OTOH, they are not specifically designed for running games on such a machine.
Thus the graphics part *typically* is implemented as an 'integrated graphics'
(no dedicated graphics chip).
With the exception of (Notebook) machines targeting the Workstation segment
(industrial design etc. applications which require a lot of graphics power, e.g.
3D-performance). (We don't need - so far - high 3D-performance for 'average'
HAM Radio applications).

Some limitations, though: these 'Corporate' machines, the majority I'd say,
come with screen sizes at 14 inch or less, some (few) with 15.x inch screens.
Simple reason: a 14" Notebook is significantly smaller than a 15.6" (or so)
machine. And somewhat lighter as well. And these machines had to travel with
and carried by the owner (field staff).

What should be also looked at before a buying decision of such (or in general)
a Notebook machine: LCD Screen Resolution!

Because you *cannot* exchange the LCD screen in a Notebook machine in a
simple manner. At least *not* at all the physical size.

So, what I would like to strongly recommend, before a buy, is to consider in detail,
what you'll need to have ON your screen (application windows) simultaneously,
given your targeted application/working scenario.
A standard 1280 resolution might quite likely not be 'good' enough to have
multiple windows open at the very same time.

OTOH, at a given screen size, say 15.x inches, the higher the resolution is
(e.g. at 1920 / full HD), the smaller the Icons, Buttons etc. will get on this screen.
Especially important for the visually impaired among us!

Of course one could use an external monitor (any size) attached to the Notebook
and get around this limitation. Then, IMHO, I would admittedly question the need
for a Notebook vs. some 'Small Size PC' (small box).

73, Klaus, DK3QN

(former VP&GM Siemens-Nixdorf Notebook Divison, VP Fujitsu-Siemens until 2009)


Am 11.11.2019 um 18:56 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439



David
 

Hi Klaus

Thanks yet again.  Taken note of what you’ve written.  I’ve learnt a lot today!

73s

David G8IIC


On 11 Nov 2019, at 20:49, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David,

As I already wrote: it depends quite much on what machine you've got back then:
'Corporate' or 'Consumer'.

Plus: for 2nd hand machines: it is quite key to observe the thermal status of the machine.
As after a couple of years of  usage, the thermal paste, connecting the CPU Top plate to
the cooling system may have vapored so much that there is not enough heat transferred
from the CPU (with e.g. internal graphics) to the cooling system.
If not corrected properly, these parts will just die due to a thermal death.
Just because there is not enough thermal transfer from the chip(s) to the heatsink.

It's an easy fix, as long as you can get to the insides of the machine real easy.
That's why I 'stress' this 'accessibility' issue so much! It's KEY!

It then takes some cleaning-off of the old paste and add a small drop of new thermal
paste atop of the CPU to get this in shape back again.

In addition, cleaning the internal fan from any dust etc. in, say, a yearly sequence,
to be absolutely on the safe side, is also quite key.

The one major reason why Notebooks (internal PCB related) die: thermal problems.
You can be assured!

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 21:07 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Thanks again, Klaus, for your input.  I’m tempted to go for a smaller machine - though that wouldn’t give me any cost saving on a new machine it would seem.  I do not intend multiple applications on the shack.

My understanding is that many cheaper laptops do have integrated graphics - I did have a Lenovo laptop running windows 8 then Windows 10 for a couple of years until the graphics chip failed and was advised it was uneconomic to repair - something I am now bearing in mind.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 19:00, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David, Anders, and Group,

A long post follows ;-)

These 'refurbished' Notebooks, which typically come out of finished Leasing contracts
of Corporate Customers, are what can be indeed called 'Corporate' machines.
Opposite to 'Consumer' machines.

There is a definite adder of 'designed-in' and 'build-in' quality and longevity
which comes with 'Corporate' machines. For a simple reason, one might imagine ;-)
OTOH, they are not specifically designed for running games on such a machine.
Thus the graphics part *typically* is implemented as an 'integrated graphics'
(no dedicated graphics chip).
With the exception of (Notebook) machines targeting the Workstation segment
(industrial design etc. applications which require a lot of graphics power, e.g.
3D-performance). (We don't need - so far - high 3D-performance for 'average'
HAM Radio applications).

Some limitations, though: these 'Corporate' machines, the majority I'd say,
come with screen sizes at 14 inch or less, some (few) with 15.x inch screens.
Simple reason: a 14" Notebook is significantly smaller than a 15.6" (or so)
machine. And somewhat lighter as well. And these machines had to travel with
and carried by the owner (field staff).

What should be also looked at before a buying decision of such (or in general)
a Notebook machine: LCD Screen Resolution!

Because you *cannot* exchange the LCD screen in a Notebook machine in a
simple manner. At least *not* at all the physical size.

So, what I would like to strongly recommend, before a buy, is to consider in detail,
what you'll need to have ON your screen (application windows) simultaneously,
given your targeted application/working scenario.
A standard 1280 resolution might quite likely not be 'good' enough to have
multiple windows open at the very same time.

OTOH, at a given screen size, say 15.x inches, the higher the resolution is
(e.g. at 1920 / full HD), the smaller the Icons, Buttons etc. will get on this screen.
Especially important for the visually impaired among us!

Of course one could use an external monitor (any size) attached to the Notebook
and get around this limitation. Then, IMHO, I would admittedly question the need
for a Notebook vs. some 'Small Size PC' (small box).

73, Klaus, DK3QN

(former VP&GM Siemens-Nixdorf Notebook Divison, VP Fujitsu-Siemens until 2009)


Am 11.11.2019 um 18:56 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439



Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Just to conclude and sort of 'finishing up' this subject, as far as my
input goes for tonight:

The next possible ' issue' with Notebooks, after some years of usage
may come out of the Motherboard to LCD connection cable.

This connection, especially for the attachement of the multi-wire
cable directly to the (lower horizontal) section of and at the LCD
screen can cause problems over time.

These typically manifest as a few or more 'out of color' lines,
especially when looking at a dark LCD background.

E.g. I have an HP ProBook 450 G2 sitting on my repair bench since
the day before yesterday which one of my neighbours handed over
to me asking - verrry politely - if I could possibly 'look what is wrong' 
with it, as it shows some vertical lines out of color right in the
center area of the LCD display.

This is when your past professional job gets 'circa' back to you again ;-)
No matter what this past job exactly was! For my neighbours, I am the
'Computer Guy'. So what. I have retired now.

OK. Let's see. Sliding my thumb with some pressure along the lower
horizontal part of the LCD screen (where the MB to LCD cable(s) are
typically connected) gives various moving vertical line drop-outs.

Connecting an external monitor to the machine gives a perfect
picture. No issues at all.

So it's related to the cable connection at and to the Notebook
LCD screen.

Now it is quite helpful if you've got available something like a
'hardware maintenance manual', from where you can see how this
connection is done (connections/connectors) and where to dig-in
first.

I am not an HP Notebook expert in any way (although I have
studied their designs a lot in the past and did and still do value
their expertise), so all I can do as a next step is to ask Google and
proceed to the YouTube videos dealing with 'problems' like that.

For cases like this, YouTube
(I mean the 'qualified' YouTube videos) can really be a big help.
Thanks to those guys inputting and sharing their experience there!
Thanks guys!

I'm quite sure that I will be able to make my neighbour happy again
with a nice looking screen.
But it will take a little time (...) and will cost him more than just one
bottle of good Bavarian Beer!

That's also for sure :-))

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 22:29 schrieb David via Groups.Io:

Hi Klaus

Thanks yet again.  Taken note of what you’ve written.  I’ve learnt a lot today!

73s

David G8IIC


On 11 Nov 2019, at 20:49, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David,

As I already wrote: it depends quite much on what machine you've got back then:
'Corporate' or 'Consumer'.

Plus: for 2nd hand machines: it is quite key to observe the thermal status of the machine.
As after a couple of years of  usage, the thermal paste, connecting the CPU Top plate to
the cooling system may have vapored so much that there is not enough heat transferred
from the CPU (with e.g. internal graphics) to the cooling system.
If not corrected properly, these parts will just die due to a thermal death.
Just because there is not enough thermal transfer from the chip(s) to the heatsink.

It's an easy fix, as long as you can get to the insides of the machine real easy.
That's why I 'stress' this 'accessibility' issue so much! It's KEY!

It then takes some cleaning-off of the old paste and add a small drop of new thermal
paste atop of the CPU to get this in shape back again.

In addition, cleaning the internal fan from any dust etc. in, say, a yearly sequence,
to be absolutely on the safe side, is also quite key.

The one major reason why Notebooks (internal PCB related) die: thermal problems.
You can be assured!

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 11.11.2019 um 21:07 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Thanks again, Klaus, for your input.  I’m tempted to go for a smaller machine - though that wouldn’t give me any cost saving on a new machine it would seem.  I do not intend multiple applications on the shack.

My understanding is that many cheaper laptops do have integrated graphics - I did have a Lenovo laptop running windows 8 then Windows 10 for a couple of years until the graphics chip failed and was advised it was uneconomic to repair - something I am now bearing in mind.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 19:00, Klaus Brosche, DK3QN <dk3qn@...> wrote:

Hi David, Anders, and Group,

A long post follows ;-)

These 'refurbished' Notebooks, which typically come out of finished Leasing contracts
of Corporate Customers, are what can be indeed called 'Corporate' machines.
Opposite to 'Consumer' machines.

There is a definite adder of 'designed-in' and 'build-in' quality and longevity
which comes with 'Corporate' machines. For a simple reason, one might imagine ;-)
OTOH, they are not specifically designed for running games on such a machine.
Thus the graphics part *typically* is implemented as an 'integrated graphics'
(no dedicated graphics chip).
With the exception of (Notebook) machines targeting the Workstation segment
(industrial design etc. applications which require a lot of graphics power, e.g.
3D-performance). (We don't need - so far - high 3D-performance for 'average'
HAM Radio applications).

Some limitations, though: these 'Corporate' machines, the majority I'd say,
come with screen sizes at 14 inch or less, some (few) with 15.x inch screens.
Simple reason: a 14" Notebook is significantly smaller than a 15.6" (or so)
machine. And somewhat lighter as well. And these machines had to travel with
and carried by the owner (field staff).

What should be also looked at before a buying decision of such (or in general)
a Notebook machine: LCD Screen Resolution!

Because you *cannot* exchange the LCD screen in a Notebook machine in a
simple manner. At least *not* at all the physical size.

So, what I would like to strongly recommend, before a buy, is to consider in detail,
what you'll need to have ON your screen (application windows) simultaneously,
given your targeted application/working scenario.
A standard 1280 resolution might quite likely not be 'good' enough to have
multiple windows open at the very same time.

OTOH, at a given screen size, say 15.x inches, the higher the resolution is
(e.g. at 1920 / full HD), the smaller the Icons, Buttons etc. will get on this screen.
Especially important for the visually impaired among us!

Of course one could use an external monitor (any size) attached to the Notebook
and get around this limitation. Then, IMHO, I would admittedly question the need
for a Notebook vs. some 'Small Size PC' (small box).

73, Klaus, DK3QN

(former VP&GM Siemens-Nixdorf Notebook Divison, VP Fujitsu-Siemens until 2009)


Am 11.11.2019 um 18:56 schrieb David via Groups.Io:
Klaus

Thanks for your advice.

David


On 11 Nov 2019, at 17:51, AndersH <anhn@...> wrote:

Klaus,

I keep hearing a lot of worried commentary related to the apparent demise of Win7. It's almost like Microsoft is to disable Win7 installations or something.
My main concern is "repairing Win7" if my WIn7 installation on disk gets damaged for some reason, that might be a tough proposition in 2020.

Even though I'm not speaking German, I obtained a nice second hand HP Elite book with a German Win7 installation and German keyboard on eBay only last year.
It's my second best laptop PC purchase of all time. I just need to perform some essential final updates before year's end. I'm confident it will serve me well in 2020.

All the best!
Anders H.
SM6-8439




AndersH
 

Hi Klaus,

Thank you for the advice on obtaining a 1:! copy of my Win7 installation.
I am intentionally "trying to be nice" to my built-in 320 HDD by running disk intensive applications on an external USB drive.
It's obviously very wise to have a clone standing by. Without Win 7 support this is the way to go.

Best regards,
Anders H.

Klaus Brosche, DK3QN
 

Hi Anders,

Before I go to bed now:

running 'disk-intensive' applications (esp. WRITES) on an external
USB drive - by all means - is NOT a GOOD strategy!
I would definitely NOT recommend that to any of my friends!
NEVER! I say again: NEVER!

USB drives (aka 'Sticks'), compared to HDDs (rotating media)
have a much lower Read/Write lifespan! FAR LOWER!
Especially as far as the 'Writes' is concerned.

Your 320 GB HDD will survive your USB Flash Stick by many
orders of magnitude!

Get yourself  a couple of good quality 320 or 500 GB HDDs.
The cost for a new 320 GB HDD (Toshiba e.g.) here in DL-Land
@ amazon.de (e.g.) is less than 20 Euros.

73, Klaus, DK3QN

Am 12.11.2019 um 00:16 schrieb AndersH:

Hi Klaus,

Thank you for the advice on obtaining a 1:! copy of my Win7 installation.
I am intentionally "trying to be nice" to my built-in 320 HDD by running disk intensive applications on an external USB drive.
It's obviously very wise to have a clone standing by. Without Win 7 support this is the way to go.

Best regards,
Anders H.