ELAD now completely cut off from Mac computers


Antony Watts
 

With the change by Apple to the ARM-based M1 processors new Mac users will be unable to run the FDM-SW2 software. Previously with x86 processors it was possible, but not very user friendly, to use Parallels and a copy of Windows to provide a Windows platform and run the ELAD software.

It is time for ELAD to update their program, a couple of things they can do are

1. Make a 100% Apple silicon M1 compatible version
2. Integrate remote operation using an Ethernet connection
3. Improve the integration of Audio Processing as an integral part of the program.

And for the future change the hardware to provide
1. A single ethernet connection replacing 3 x USB cables, as a second way to have remote use
2. Over the Air software updates, direct from ELAD to the FDM-DUO and other hardware.

Any opinions?


Mike Chace-Ortiz
 

Maybe not quite, Anthony

It’s now an official release and Parallels 16.5 runs on M1 using the ARM version of Windows 10. There was someone on the list who checked in with that configuration a couple of weeks ago - perhaps he can report.

No idea how SW2 would run in that version of Windows 10, but perhaps all is not lost.

I’d love to see a native version of SW2 too. Expert Electronics manages to support macOS, Windows and Linux with probably just as a small a user base, so it must be possible. It’s a pity their hardware was so inferior compared to the Elad.

73
—mco
AB1TZ/G6DHU


On Apr 24, 2021, at 09:24, Antony Watts via groups.io <antonywatts@...> wrote:

With the change by Apple to the ARM-based M1 processors new Mac users will be unable to run the FDM-SW2 software. Previously with x86 processors it was possible, but not very user friendly, to use Parallels and a copy of Windows to provide a Windows platform and run the ELAD software.

It is time for ELAD to update their program, a couple of things they can do are

1. Make a 100% Apple silicon M1 compatible version
2. Integrate remote operation using an Ethernet connection
3. Improve the integration of Audio Processing as an integral part of the program.

And for the future change the hardware to provide
1. A single ethernet connection replacing 3 x USB cables, as a second way to have remote use
2. Over the Air software updates, direct from ELAD to the FDM-DUO and other hardware.

Any opinions?


m.colyer@...
 

Am running ARM W10 via Parallels on M1 MacBook Air having followed Internet instructions and SW2 will not run. No problem with my older Intel iMac.


Christof Proft
 

Hi Antony,

leave the mac hardware behind and provide an intel based pc like an intel nuc for the ELAD SDR.

Don't support the Apple product policy any further.

I used a mac mini, 2012 version, with MS Windows 7 to 10 for several years. Only Windows, no Boot Camp, nor Parallels. Boot Camp crashed once, so I decided to reduce the OS to windows.

Nice little, relieable computer which I had upgraded with 16 GB DDR3 RAM and the ifix second drive kit with a SAMSUNG SSD.

About three years ago I wanted an upgrade to a newer mac mini. The new model had the RAM soldered directly to the motherboard, so I would have to buy additionial RAM directly while ordering.

I would have payed about three times the price compared to a "normal" RAM upgrade via socketed Ram modules fot that. So, I bought an intel nuc, never Apple again...

 

If Apple wants to rip off their customers and close out native Windows programs, they might do this. Without me.

Just my 2 ct.

 

vy73
chris


Winston
 

I was able to run FDM-SW2 via Parallels and Windows ARM.  However, The FDM-S3 SDR receiver that I operate was not able to be recognized by Windows ARM.  It seems to be an an issue with the USB drivers.  A solution would be to connect via Microsoft Remote Desktop to an Intel NUC that runs FDM-SW2.  It's additional hardware but it runs smoothly even over WiFi.  A side benefit would be that you can take your MacBook anywhere around the house and operate.  If you use Virtual Audio Cable (VAC) for digital operations, then you will run into another compatibility issue.  Whether Windows ARM will ever be fully equivalent in compatiblity to Intel Windows remains to be seen.  My MacBook Air M1 has become my main computer.  It's amazingly powerful for a gen 1 product and it's also fanless for silent operations.  It would be great if Elad wrote a Mac version of its software.  Mac users have been consistently growing in marketshare and I think that includes radio operators.


Bernie Capron
 

This is common with other Ham software as well. I gave a friend of mine a Windows laptop, just so I wouldn't have to listen to him whine every time we talked about different software that we were playing with and he couldn't run it. I would suggest getting a low end Windows computer to run your software. Its not ideal, but with Apple keeping everything proprietary its very difficult for smaller companies to develop software for them.


Ron Liekens
 

I have left the Apple clan years ago as it only gave me restrictions and no benefits over Windows and Linux OS. Maybe a Linux based SW2 could be an option to consider if there is a craving for it. No, the Elad crew is wise to stay with Windows OS for the moment in my eyes. You would need another developer and that expensive. Granted the new ARM-M1 is a nice performing processor. Maybe there will be other manufacturers that will jump on the ARM wagon soon. I heard rumours from the Microsoft clan to support the ARM-M1 in the future. Maybe its just gossip ;-)


Shaun Vincent Hopkins
 

I'd like a linux version. Has anyone thought of doing a Docker SW2? It's beyond my current skill sets but I'm slowly getting to grips with it. Only issues would be USB passthrough
73
Hoppy


Antony Watts
 

Apple is no more "keeping everything proprietary" than Microsoft and Windows. They are simply different operating systems running on different CPUs.

All we can hope for is that ELAD wake up and like others make a x86- Windows, M1 - MacOS version, and whatever Linux is needed (x86 or ARM)


Andy - Arlington TX
 

Antony,

Umm... Actually, Apple is far more proprietary than MS and windows, since Apple controls both the hardware and the OS. You cannot legally run Apple's OS or applications software on any other manufacturer's computer.

MS offers their own hardware, but also supports other manufacturers' (even Apple's!) hardware as well, on both both ARM and IA processors. 

Supporting an application on the same OS on additional processors is one thing (and still not trivial), but supporting additional operating systems is a very significant increase in cost for SW development, testing and support. That additional cost is difficult to justify in the relatively tiny market for SDR software. How many additional SDR receivers would they sell if they also supported Apple? Not very many, and the additional development, test and support cost must be justified by that potential, small, additional revenue.

-- Andy - Arlington TX


Klaus Brosche
 

Imho, that complaint should be addressed to Apple and not to ELAD.
'Cause Apples' new CPU strategy is the reason for this "disruption"
in SW support.

To my knowledge, ELAD has never announced, promised, or whatever the likes,
to develop/provide any native macOS version of FDM-SW2.

Given the assumably tight SW development resources at ELAD, it makes much
sense focussing these resources on an OS platform that embraces about
87% of the OS market for Windows vs. abt. 11% for macOS.
(Source: netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share)

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 29.04.2021 um 19:28 schrieb Andy - Arlington TX:

Antony,

Umm... Actually, Apple is far more proprietary than MS and windows, since Apple controls both the hardware and the OS. You cannot legally run Apple's OS or applications software on any other manufacturer's computer.

MS offers their own hardware, but also supports other manufacturers' (even Apple's!) hardware as well, on both both ARM and IA processors. 

Supporting an application on the same OS on additional processors is one thing (and still not trivial), but supporting additional operating systems is a very significant increase in cost for SW development, testing and support. That additional cost is difficult to justify in the relatively tiny market for SDR software. How many additional SDR receivers would they sell if they also supported Apple? Not very many, and the additional development, test and support cost must be justified by that potential, small, additional revenue.

-- Andy - Arlington TX



Rich O.
 

Agreed.  Until there is enough Mac marketshare to justify ELad Software development, the Mac user can try some of the Windows emulation techniques to run ELad.



73,

Rich

On Apr 29, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Klaus Brosche <klaus.brosche@...> wrote:


Imho, that complaint should be addressed to Apple and not to ELAD.
'Cause Apples' new CPU strategy is the reason for this "disruption"
in SW support.

To my knowledge, ELAD has never announced, promised, or whatever the likes,
to develop/provide any native macOS version of FDM-SW2.

Given the assumably tight SW development resources at ELAD, it makes much
sense focussing these resources on an OS platform that embraces about
87% of the OS market for Windows vs. abt. 11% for macOS.
(Source: netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share)

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 29.04.2021 um 19:28 schrieb Andy - Arlington TX:
Antony,

Umm... Actually, Apple is far more proprietary than MS and windows, since Apple controls both the hardware and the OS. You cannot legally run Apple's OS or applications software on any other manufacturer's computer.

MS offers their own hardware, but also supports other manufacturers' (even Apple's!) hardware as well, on both both ARM and IA processors. 

Supporting an application on the same OS on additional processors is one thing (and still not trivial), but supporting additional operating systems is a very significant increase in cost for SW development, testing and support. That additional cost is difficult to justify in the relatively tiny market for SDR software. How many additional SDR receivers would they sell if they also supported Apple? Not very many, and the additional development, test and support cost must be justified by that potential, small, additional revenue.

-- Andy - Arlington TX



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

My vote goes with the earlier suggestion of one of the W10 fanless micro PCs which are very cheap these days, then run an RDP session over a local network connection.  Probably cheaper than a new cable for my Macbook Pro.

If you can sort out the audio side, you could use that approach for full remote as well I guess. Otherwise if you are local to it, just use the audio on the micro PC and run WSJT-X or whatever on it as well.  Think of the micro PC as a dumb appliance. You could even peel off the Windoze badge and reconfigure the UI to suit.

Or if you are really really keen, talk to Elad and set up a crowdfunder to raise the money for a full redevelopment and ongoing support for five years.  Half a million euro should sort it. Maybe three quarters of a million.

Anyway, do native Linux SW2 first pleeeeze, I have a LOT more Linux boxen than Macs, and my MBP trackpad is unclickable in parts, the battery is refusing to take more than 1% charge and the magsafe lead is falling apart. Lovely thing, but oh boy, the engineering is as janky as a janky thing.

Neil G4DBN

PS yes I have tried all the usual solutions for the "1% battery" issue with no effect, and no, my MBP does not appear to be included in the big repair program for all the other Macs that are suffering from failed trackpads and failed battery charging. Boooo.

On Apr 29, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Klaus Brosche <klaus.brosche@...> wrote:


Imho, that complaint should be addressed to Apple and not to ELAD.
'Cause Apples' new CPU strategy is the reason for this "disruption"
in SW support.

To my knowledge, ELAD has never announced, promised, or whatever the likes,
to develop/provide any native macOS version of FDM-SW2.

Given the assumably tight SW development resources at ELAD, it makes much
sense focussing these resources on an OS platform that embraces about
87% of the OS market for Windows vs. abt. 11% for macOS.
(Source: netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share)

Klaus, DK3QN


Am 29.04.2021 um 19:28 schrieb Andy - Arlington TX:
Antony,

Umm... Actually, Apple is far more proprietary than MS and windows, since Apple controls both the hardware and the OS. You cannot legally run Apple's OS or applications software on any other manufacturer's computer.

MS offers their own hardware, but also supports other manufacturers' (even Apple's!) hardware as well, on both both ARM and IA processors. 

Supporting an application on the same OS on additional processors is one thing (and still not trivial), but supporting additional operating systems is a very significant increase in cost for SW development, testing and support. That additional cost is difficult to justify in the relatively tiny market for SDR software. How many additional SDR receivers would they sell if they also supported Apple? Not very many, and the additional development, test and support cost must be justified by that potential, small, additional revenue.

-- Andy - Arlington TX


-- 
Neil
http://g4dbn.uk


Andy - Arlington TX
 

So let's flip this around a bit; given a fixed development budget (or even one that increases with sales), and that an internal wish list is likely in place for new/improved functionality (not including additional OS and ISA compatibility), what new/improved functionality would users be willing to forego or delay, in order to support additional, but lesser-used, OSs and ISAs?

Keep in mind that supporting SW on an additional OS/ISA is not a fixed, one-time cost, since every OS/ISA you add increases the cost of maintaining existing features and adding new ones.

-- Andy - Arlington TX


Antony Watts
 

Yes, but. If you run M1 Parallels and M1 Windows on a Mac, then you obviously cannot run x86 SW2 on this version of windows as it needs x86 CPUs.

Unless M1 Windows does emulate x86 and accept all Windows apps???


Antony Watts
 

Too much I am not in the business of arguing about MacOS vs Windows. As far as I know ELAD has no plans at all to make a MacOS version of SW2.

But I am a Mac user, and they have fundamentally changed their hardware (M1 vs x86).

This means that any program wishing to run on new Macs must execute M1 code. Unless you use an x86 emulator.

This has a while to run, but for me I just wanna use my Macs for radio.


Ed Thierbach
 

This has a while to run, but for me I just wanna use my Macs for radio.

A better path might be to get involved in an open-source SDR software project that runs on MacOS (or port one to MacOS). Work to add Elad hardware support and the nice features of SW2. That leaves more Elad resources free for hardware and software enhancements, new features, and new products.

I know that is far from a trivial effort --- but that's the point.

73,
-Ed- AB8OJ


Antony Watts
 

Open-source SDR ELAD/M1 project. Sounds great, I think that is what FLEX do with their SmartSDR offering for Macs. I am unable to sponsor this idea as I have zero knowhow in software development but may be ELAD can contact SmartSDR people and get something done?