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ELAD FDM-S2
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Denis Moger
Have had the above sdr for 6 months now, and I am interested in who has tried various hf antennas, and what one has proved to be most effective. I am using an end fed 50 foot wire, at 30 feet from the chimney base, with a 9:1` balun.
Denis |
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Otso Ylönen
Hi Denis,
I have mostly used my four S2s for FM DX. However, two years ago I got the change to spread out a few beverage antennas in a QRM free area. Those have a terminating resistor and 4:1 baluns. For a preamp I use DX Engineering RPA-2. S2 has performed very well with these and I have captured hundreds of Trans-Atlantic stations during these two seasons.
The main complaint I have with S2 in mediumwave (AM broadcast) frequencies is the relativly poor frequency accuracy. I have calibrated each of the unit, but it seems to be impossible to have them exactly adjusted even across the mediumwave band (530-1700 kHz): the error is in the order of +/-2 to 4 Hz depending on the individual unit. Better accuracy would help in identifying stations based on their offsets.
This listing shows the first 2500 logs created with the help of this setup: https://www.mwlist.org/mw_logmap.php?sort=&datum=0&all=all&omid=1758&band=ALL
BR, Otso (Finland)
Gesendet: Dienstag, 06. Oktober 2020 um 17:05 Uhr
Von: deniswm1947@... An: EladSDR@groups.io Betreff: [EladSDR] ELAD FDM-S2 Have had the above sdr for 6 months now, and I am interested in who has tried various hf antennas, and what one has proved to be most effective. I am using an end fed 50 foot wire, at 30 feet from the chimney base, with a 9:1` balun.
Denis |
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Denis Moger
Hello BR, thanks for reply, however it is not clear how I should make a beverage antenna for hf, I will look online about this, bye Denis On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 at 10:17, Otso Ylönen <otso.ylonen@...> wrote:
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VE7IBI
Hi Denis, I received my S2 about a month ago. I have been playing with antennas ever since. I too am interested in what kind of response you get from this community. I currently have mine connected to a Gap Titan vertical multiband dipole. It's working the best so far. I did have great success with a 1 m loop antenna inside the house. Especially when connected through a $10 loop antenna amplifier I bought through AliExpress. In the same AliExpress shipment I also received a mini whip antenna. It hasn't worked so well but I'm told that they must go up outside as clear as a possible from obstruction. I will be setting that up outside before winter sets in. I don't know if you are familiar with the mini whip antenna, it does appear to be quite effective. There's an online SDR at the University of twente in the Netherlands. Their results with the Their results with a mini whip are very impressive. Jim 73 Jim VE7IBI -------- Original message -------- From: deniswm1947@... Date: 2020-10-06 14:38 (GMT-08:00) To: EladSDR@groups.io Subject: [EladSDR] ELAD FDM-S2 Denis |
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Denis Moger
thanks for reply Jim, will look at the gap titan and I have ordered a 60cm loop and antenna amp, will l look at the hf mini whip, is there a brand name for it? On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 at 11:01, VE7IBI <VE7IBI@...> wrote:
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T.W.H. Fockens
Hello Jim,
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Concerning the WebpSDR on the University of Twente: I live there close by, come often there, and I know the designer. It is on a large, high, building, with an large railing used as groundplane. The building roof is relative well shielded, so the noise floor is not too bad. Do not expect that effectivity when you place a mini-whip on your own balcony. 73, Koos PA0KDF On 06 Oct, VE7IBI <VE7IBI@...> wrote:
Hi Denis,I received my S2 about a month ago. I have been playing with antennas ever since. I too am interested in what kind of response you get from this community.I currently have mine connected to a Gap Titan vertical multiband dipole. It's working the best so far. I did have great success with a 1 m loop antenna inside the house. Especially when connected through a $10 loop antenna amplifier I bought through AliExpress. In the same AliExpress shipment I also received a mini whip antenna. It hasn't worked so well but I'm told that they must go up outside as clear as a possible from obstruction. I will be setting that up outside before winter sets in.I don't know if you are familiar with the mini whip antenna, it does appear to be quite effective. There's an online SDR at the University of twente in the Netherlands. Their results with the Their results with a mini whip are very impressive. Jim73JimVE7IBI --
Ir. T.W.H. Fockens Kieftweg 1 7165BR Rietmolen "In een rijk van leugens is de waarheid verraad" (Orwell,1984) |
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VE7IBI
I wouldn't necessarily suggest the Titan, It just kind of fell in
my lap due to a shortage of real estate at my QTH. That being said
it isn't too shoddy. This is the Mini-Whip: aliexpress.com/item/4000171678689.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.b3674c4dvvhY61 MF/HF/VHF SDR Antenna MiniWhip Shortwave Active Antenna for Ore Radio Transistor Radio RTL-SDR Receiver US $17.13
This is the loop amp: aliexpress.com/item/4001164141206.html Loop Antenna Active Magnetic Loop Antenna HA SDR Short Medium Wave Radio Low Noise Adjustable Gain Loop Antenna 100kHz-30MHzUS $12.80
Inexpensive stuff
for sure, but as I say I am just playing at this point. I
also have a 7 ft. x 1 1/4 inch copper hex loop antenna in the
garage waiting to go up maybe before winter hits, but knowing
me spring is more likely.
Good luck, let me
know what works for you!
Jim VE7IBI
On 10/7/2020 3:16 AM, Denis Moger
wrote:
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VE7IBI
Thank You Koos,
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Thank You for your warning. That's good information. I have learned to expect little and be happy if I am pleasantly surprised! Still I look forward to the experiment! My location is quite rural so I hope for a low noise floor. Regards from Canada, Jim VE7IBI On 10/7/2020 3:36 AM, T.W.H. Fockens wrote:
Hello Jim, |
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Ron Liekens
Hello,
Oddly nobody has asked Denis what his interests on short wave are as the suggested antenna has to designed to fur fill its wishes. I sadly see that some mediocre Miniwhip antenna is suggested. Denis, first of all you chose to spend your money on an FDM-S2 because it is a high quality SDR otherwise you could go for a cheap RTL device. This tells me that you want quality reception. This in mind, you do not want to end up with a cheap, bad working antenna as this is a waste of money. This said, do NOT go for a cheap Miniwhip copy. I had a number of cheap stuff landing on in my radio shack during the past 40 years and I can tell you that most of them are bad performers or have terrible mechanical designs. I have some original PA0RDT (Roelof Bakker) Miniwhips and also a few EcoWhips from his hand, and they all work very good and are just a bit more expensive compared to the clones you find all over the globe. The same goes for the Wellbrook, NTi, Stampfl loops. They are very good performers and mounted on a small rotor you can null out unwanted signals or noises. For me these are a good all round choice for a beginner and experienced radio user and well worth the Elad FDM-S2. The minor part is that they are not cheap, but you can buy a Stampfl Blue wave amplifier and make the hardware yourself with some wire and glassfiber rods. End fed wires are a reasonable solution, but they are tuned to specific bands, mostly HAM bands but will offer you less signal outside these bands. Also, due to their design they are noisy and you will lose some real dx signals. They are also directive and cannot be turned so here also you will lose signals. A vertical is omnidirectional and could be a good antenna but it has also a higher noise floor and is sensitive to all unwanted signals around you. A Beverage is a good antenna for the low bands, but it needs lots of space to erect it. I have one that is only 200 meters short and it will work fine down to 1800 kHz and you will lose signals above 10 MHz. I have a LIRA that is 23 meters long and is superior to this Beverage. With all this in mind, what do you want to receive is very important to have a real answer you what you want from an antenna. It does not have to be real expensive. How much room do you have and if you live in the city or in a rural environement. This way I can come back to you with a real world answer. Here also, even tough I am a Ham operator, most of them do not think in a SWL manner. I listen to the bands for 98% of the time and have so for 50 + years. As you have noticed I also make most of my antennas and it has developed in a real hobby on its own ;-) Be not afraid to ask (to) many questions. It's about a solution that will fit your specific needs. Best regards, Ron Liekens ON2RON |
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Miniwhips have been useless for me here in New Zealand,
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I've had a Wellbrook loop for several years, and is is good, though I think they are overpriced. I've had to replace the amplifier once due to thunderstorm damage, and I consider the BNC connectors and the wire connectors to the loop to be rubbish for the price. That said, I can hear stuff that was drowned out by noise on my longwire & box loop antennas :-) 73 Chris On 2020-10-09 22:14, Ron Liekens wrote:
Hello,i |
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Denis Moger
Thanks a lot Ron for your thoughtful reply, I like to listen to broadcast stations 5 to 17meghz and radio hams in that range, I could try 4 or 5 antenna wires all joined at one end and cut different lengths at the other end for different wavebands, would that improve much on my reception? My local radio ham club has that setup for reception, but I am not a member. My single wire of 50ft is straight from SE to NW. The RX SPC ATU I tried inline does not improve reception on any bands. I have a full ham licence, but no transmitter now, except for 2 handhelds for vhf and uhf ham bands. I also have a separate tiny french cb radio, and full length vertical antenna not setup. Got the £35 5v , 60cm loop for hf, but gives a high background noise, FDM S2 is better off without it. Can I purchase an LRIA for hf bands , or can I make one? Willing to spend up to £150 for something that works like a Wellbrook. Can put a loop , vertical or wire antenna from base of chimney, the loop would be above the top of chimney if I put one there, also can put a vertical in same spot as hardware for a vertical is already attached to the wall next to chimney, thats 30ft up from the ground. I am limited to 50 ft to backend of back yard, unless the wire is turned at right angle to the right at the back wall. Some years ago I had an offset hf antenna as an inverted V on top of 7ft wall running from front street end to end of back yard. It did work well. I used to have a NOAA weather satellite receiver and turnstyle antenna, I miss getting the daily weather pics. Regards, Denis On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 10:14, Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> wrote: Hello, |
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Ron Liekens
Denis,
No need spending lots of money. Get the Stampfl Blue-wave loop amplifier or a Wellbrook ALA100LN. Both are almost equal in performance, but I prefer the Wellbrook. You have to make a loop construction yourself. I used a bamboo rod as the horizontal part and a 30 mm PVC drain pipe (thick wall) as the vertical part. Run a wire in a triangle shape and connect the loop amplifier in the middle or the end of the horizontal support and your good to go. The whole contraption is mounted on a short vertical pipe and connected to a small tv-rotor. https://www.heinzstampfl.ch/en/shop/blue-wave-active-antenna-0-05-30mhz/ https://wellbrook.uk.com/loopantennas/ALA100LN-M The LIRA antenna is described in the attached file. It consists of 2 loops phase turned behind each other and terminated with a carbon resistor. You have to build a balun and a common-mode choke to connect to the front of the antenna. The LIRA is facing towards the balun and the backside and side lobes are attenuated. As you understand, this antenna is directive but extremely quiet by producing almost no own noise. You will have good signal gain between 2 and 15 MHz. I can listen to USA hams on the 75M band every day which no other of my antennas can including the Beverage. Here is a video I made of the LIRA against the Beverage on the MW broadcast band. Notice the low noise level of the Elad FDM-S2 of the LIRA compared to the Beverage and the signals that become more clear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lm69Vxq4k0&t=5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYryqsg84ug&t=5s You can contact Jukka Klemola for more details as it is his design. There are even bigger antenna models if you have enough real estate to play with ;-) A FDM-S2 deserves a good antenna as it is a very good SDR which I have enjoys since its release many years ago. Never had one that performed better. The Airspy HF+ Discovery is on the same level but it only has a sample rate BW of 9xx KHz. Besides these I also have some 6 other SDR's for other radio things. Good luck! Best regards, Ron Liekens ON2RON |
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VE7IBI
The mini-whip seems to be, hell it is, a hot button issue with some old timers. I understood Denis was asking what others are using for antennas, I answered that I am "playing with" some cheap Chinese stuff. I hardly think I was "sadly" "suggesting" it. I see this kind of response on line all the time. People with a lifetime of experience negating the joy of discovery in something that has caught someone else's imagination. I made no claim of efficacy. It must have caught your imagination at some point too if you own several original Roelof Bakker PA0RDT Miniwhips. A more appropriate response may have been like that of Chris Mackerell who said, "Miniwhips have been useless for me here in New Zealand". I buy that statement. It doesn't reek of: "I have 50 years as a ham, and it will never work." about it. Personally I enjoy playing with the equipment as much as I enjoy using the radio. Let people have their fun. Furthermore, it is my firm belief that If M. Bakker can invent
and perfect a piece of equipment, the Chinese can copy it cheaply.
All the rest of what you said, I am in firm agreement with. 73 Jim VE7IBI
On 10/9/2020 2:14 AM, Ron Liekens
wrote:
I sadly see that some mediocre Miniwhip antenna is suggested. |
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ON5KQ
Ron,
if such a LIRA antenna outperforms a 200m long Beverage antenna, there must be something really wrong with your Beverage. My Beverages (only 170m in length) always outperforms elongated loops systems by 6-10db in S/N ratio (depending on frequencies) However I use individual fed loop systems precisely phased with power-deviders and low-SWR feedlines, which have much cleaner pattern than LIRA. Lira only provides one sharp null, while Beverage systems really offer directivity for horizontal and vertical lobes. Elongated loops often suffer from common-mode noise as well as very low signal output. 2ele systems have even a lower signal output (you subtract two antenna pattern from each other). The signal output drops more, if the spacing of both elements are close. LIRA is nothing else than a two element array, extremly short spacing and simplified feed. That said, there is no way to optimize the phase angle in LIRA, but it is a very simple (although some inaccurate) way to feed both elements with 'some' phase shift... But even if you do it correctly and setup two loops in a endfire configuration individually fed and with larger spacing, precise phase shifts (and controlling the current magnitude as well!). the beverage antenna in the same direction greatly outperforms. (500khz ... 10Mhz). I have both antennas installed actually... Ulli, ON5KQ |
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Denis Moger
Hello, found the SW2S meter online for FDM S2, turned on fdm sw2 software, added the meter showing on top with message 'socket error', so not working, can it be fixed? On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 15:09, Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> wrote: Denis, |
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Neil Smith G4DBN
Hi Denis, have you set up the TCP server in SW2 and the correct
port and IP address in SW2Smeter? Is your Windows firewall
blocking the process perhaps? This is my setup. You may need to use the real IP address of your machine, I just bind the TCP server to any IP on the machine so 127.0.0.1 is fine forme. Click on Help when you right-click the S meter for full
installation info. Neil G4DBN On 11/10/2020 14:18, Denis Moger wrote:
-- Neil http://g4dbn.uk |
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Ron Liekens
Jim, my 50 years of antenna experience is just to point out that I'm not a rookie ;-) And, yes you rare right about Chinese copies, but the point I wanted to make is that Roelof Bakker keeps the development of the MiniWhip going and it now has a new low voltage model called EcoWhip which is in its second revision. The Ecowhip I now use is only a few weeks old and is the last revision. I have compared it to the former models to find a real improvement in SNR figures, measured and in normal use. I'm so lucky that I can compare it to the other operational antennas to see its true value. Is it the way I wrote that was bothering you? English is not my native language, so I apologize for this.
Ulli, To be honest, the LIRA is working very well, above my expectations and the 200 m short Beverage is working well. Lately I could erect this Beverage to 350 m and its signal output became stronger than expected but the SNR was only marginally better but has not gained compared to the LIRA. When me and some friends are on a weekend trip we use 450 to 550 m Beverages and I have a 53 meter sized LIRA ready to compare, but Covid-19 problems does form a problem here. The difference of the LIRA against the Beverage is its better suppression of the back and the side lobes. The produced signal is indeed very small but the FDM-S2 is coping with it very well due to its good sensitivity and low noise level. The power of a good SDR. My use of a Beverage and the LIRA is not based on use of the HAM bands so I guess that my vision is a bit different from yours. I will send you some more info via PM. 73' Ron ON2RON |
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Simon
Hi
Was speaking yesterday to a ham operator in the uk.he is a g3 in his 70’s. Also he was in conversation with another g3. BOTH own ham radio shops here in the uk.both have BIG houses boats etc.. First g3 was loving his phased lira antenna..facing out long path I think to work zl’s on cw160m.. He said has given up on beverages at his qth due to too high noise level.. Thing is with antennas..one may work brilliantly at qth A, but not qth B..as you both know! Antennas.. whats the best?? Many many arguments about this!! At the end of the day what you have is the best if it gets you on the radio..if thats a miniwhip or a 5 ele full size beam.. Just saying.. Simon g0zen.. |
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Neil Smith G4DBN
Spot on, Simon. On 160m in the late 1990s, I used a pair of phased, terminated 4 metre by 3 metre loops on a rotatable boom, using Vactrols and a phasing network to make adjustments to null out high angle signals. Modelled gain was about -33 dBi. They were better than my Beverages in most directions particularly to Alaska and the US/Canada west coast. That Beverage ran almost parallel to a fence line about 20 metres away, and it was useless. The southern beverage was better to southern Africa than the loops. The loops beat everything into JA. My soil conductivity is probably too good for a shortish (500ft) Beverage.
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Best receive antenna for working into ZL on 160 at greyline for me was a dipole at 10m, same into VK6, but it was useless for everything else except inter-EU. I guess those were high-angle signals via something like chordal hop Now, I use an e-field probe most of the time, sometimes a loop, sometimes the TX antennas. The e-field probe isn't as good as phased 1000ft Beverages or phased loops in some directions, but it only takes up a tiny space and unlike the Bevs, I don't have to talk nicely to the local farmers and run wires across their crops. My north-south Beverage which worked so well in the mid-90s has gone now. The trees I planted in the 1980s are now a tall forest around it, and the noise level from the village is hugely worse, so I recycled it as transmit radials. I have a simple rotatable loop and e-field probe well away from the houses and they work well enough. I don't think you can have too many receive antennas. Neil G4DBN On 12/10/2020 11:29, Simon wrote:
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Simon
Well
I have a 6x7m garden Live in east london.. Homebrew Mag loop for tx and rx..good for 1kw on 160. Also homebrew rx loop in corner of front garden.. Best i can do!! Happy to work America on ssb on 160m..too much noise.. When i move however... |
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