FDM-SW2 questions


Patrick Bouldin
 

Sorry for all the questions, I do read and try and find the answer first.


Could someone explain what the normal/expected/typical sound output is supposed to work when using the FDM-SW2 software? For instance, all the RX windows, 1-4, are we supposed to hear them from the FDM-DUO speaker jack? Or, do we plug into the headphone jack on the computer for that functionality?


In the setup of SW2 I see where you can port everything to the DUO.


Bottom line, I can't hear any affect whatsoever with the software - I can "see" it though - and I can see the sound responding porting to the DUO at the moment.


Thanks and 73,

Patrick KM5L


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Hi Patrick, SW2 outputs to the Windows sound devices, you can select where you want the sound to be sent, but it must be one of the sound devices or channels on the PC. Typically, I send the main output from RX1 to the main sound card speakers, left and right, and send the AUX output to a virtual audio cable so I can then send that to WSJT or any of my other digimode or contesting programs.

What you hear on the speaker or headphone jack or AUX socket on the DUO is from the internal processing in the DUO. If you are using SW2 in the default mode, the DUO still works as normal with a 192kHz slice and SW2 also runs a 192kHz slice, but if you change to a 6MHz slice for example, the DUO is put into remote-only mode.

I have made up a mixer box so my headphones can listen to the DUO or the sound card, on left or right channels. For CW, it is vital to get sidetone from the DUO directly, as the sidetone through SW2 is delayed, and makes it really hard to send. For most other uses, I listen to the SW2 output on the headphones.

You can get fancy and run multiple receiver channels and work split and listen to the pileup in one ear and the DX in the other, or even have several receivers all listening to different parts of the pileup, but the DUO headphone socket can only deliver the same signal to both ears.

Neil G4DBN


Patrick Bouldin
 

Hi Gary, thanks very much. Good news and then a follow-up. The good news is that somehow, either I killed my realtek audio driver or Windows did during a recent W10 upgrade - so I reinstalled and now I hear SW2 output through the speakers - yay!

Follow-up - you mentioned you send your aux output to a virtual audio cable and then send that to WSJT. Can you elaborate? I do see where I can set the VRX1 (enable aux 1 out) to, for example "Line (FDM-DUO Audio V1.04)". Is that what you are doing?

And, can you elaborate on that? Because my WSJT is working fine without any VRX enabled at all. My WSJT, running on the same PC has the audio soundcard set to the FDM-DUO input and output. Doesn't that mean that SW2 software audio is directly to the WSJT app and vice versa?

Love to hear more about your mixer box. I run most of my audio through an Alesis audio mixer - just hadn't done anything with the DUO yet. I could see where I could run the Duo speaker jack to my mixer for the CW sidetone - but something would have to disable the SW2.

Sorry for "20 questions"!
Patrick


Charles Ristorcelli <nn3v_6@...>
 

Thank you Neal. Great comments.

 

Your earlier answer to some of my questions along this line of discussion helped me.

 

I still believe a good description in a user’s manual would aid me, perhaps others.

 

However, I feel like a real dummy here. It seems what I have is a major I/O problem.

 

1.     What is a “virtual audio cable”?

2.     How are different VRx’s ported to select places?

3.     How does one select different slice bandwidths? I certainly know how to expand the slice bandwidth with the mouse and cursor, but I am not certain you imply that one open the bandwidth to 6 MHz with the mouse.

If I am tiring some folks here, my apology. I try to read all manuals and reference documents, but I’ll be darned if I can find descriptors of this.

 

By the way, for the uninitiated, major I/O problem = Idiot Operator. Me?

 

 

Don't believe what you think!

73 de NN3V

Charlie


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Hi Charlie, I’m on the road at the moment, check out the Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Audio_Cable and the product page to get an idea of what VAC does.  I use it mostly so I can have a VAC connected to the AUX output of one VRX and then use two or three separate applications like WSJT, WSJT-X, MMTTY etc at the same time.

Also use it to take a 96kHz IF feed from a VrX and send that to CW Skimmer.
Neil


nn3v_6@...
 

Hi Neil and all.

Well, in deference to my /O problem I mentioned earlier (Idiot/Operator), I did find the VAC webpage.

Yes, I now have an intuitive understanding of what "Virtual Audio" means in this case.

And Neil, your elaboration was excellent. I can intimate what is meant when one "ports" an audio channel to an application. I think I got that.

So somewhere there must be a control panel, or control application that allows specification of what is to be ported where.

I see in your explanation that you port things to WSJT. Got it.

In my case, I set the playback and recording sound sources for Windows 7 to the FDM audio drivers. Then I set the sound input and output sources of WSJT, HRD, N1MM, DX4WIN, etc. to follow the FDM-DUO drivers.

It all works wonderfully.

But now, how on earth does one get to operate split?

All I want to do is start FDM-DUO SW2, display the band, tune a DX station on VRX1 and listen to the DX station in my left ear. Then, when I see the pile-up responding to the DX station's call, activate VRX2, make it the transmit frequency, and listen to the pile-up in my right ear.

My logging program will do what it has to do, and I can "tune" by watching the pile-up display.

Then I want to activate VRX2, make it the TX slice, and listen to the pile-up using VRX2.

I tried to understand how VAC operates by reading their webpage. VERY comprehensive. Now, if I wanted a PhD in VAC, I'd spend a lot of time there.

I downloaded VAC 4.0.9 and at first Windows 7 balked at installing it. Now it is installed and I am extremely pleased to see the very nice control panel it gives.

But how the heck does one marry VAC to FDM-DUO SW2 in order to achieve a split function?

BTW, to all who may be wondering why these stupid questions.

I asked ELAD about the possibility of an explanation about these set-up procedures.

 Franco sent me a separate email saying a new SW2 users manual is due out, and will go into detail on the audio channel setups.

FANTASTIC!

Go ELAD.


Patrick Bouldin
 

Hey Charlie, naw, I bet I ran them off first!  Actually, a bleeding edge technology  group of folks generally WANT to help, they're excited about it too, and want it to proliferate. Hey, I think I can finally help out.

Let's look at your questions:

1.     What is a “virtual audio cable”?
2.     How are different VRx’s ported to select places?
3.     How does one select different slice bandwidths? I certainly know how to expand the slice bandwidth with the mouse and cursor, but I am not certain you imply that one open the bandwidth to 6 MHz with the mouse.


I think I have a simple comparison, I'd say analogy but it's more than that. Your stereo has:
AM/FM
Tape In (dating myself)
Tape Out
Aux In
Aux out
Speakers A
Speakers B

If you have FM going, that would be a virtual channel. It's not until you push the Speaker A or B button do you hear the FM routed to the speaker.

If you have the Tape In going, it's not until you have the Speaker A or B button pushed do you hear the Tape routed to the speaker.

On the other hand, you could push the FM tuner on, turn the speakers off, but push the Tape deck to record and even though you don't hear the FM in the speakers you know the tape deck is still recording.

This is exactly the same. You can have all kinds of sources of sound from 4 different channels and slices. You could have a CW slice (VR) in RX1 from 7.025, a SSB slice (VR) in RX2 from 7.150 kHz. And, if you notice, you can elect not to have the speaker on for either one of them, or both.

I don't know, it's really not "virtual", the bits and bytes physically exist in the computer, regardless if you have them ported to the speakers. I think the term Virtual comes from Virtual servers - which is sort of correct use since a Virtual server is not a physical machine.

73,
Patrick KM5L


David Smith
 

I'll answer the best I can. A VAC is a 'cable in software' rather than a piece of wire to connect the (sound) output of one program to the input of another . There are a couple of different VAC's available - I use Muzychenko.

The routing is done under settings - Audio tab. In the Output Device drop down you should see your VACs listed. Select one, and the mode you wish to use (usually audio, or MUX for RDS).

Then ensure that the input of the downstream device is set to the same VAC.

I'll leave your 3rd Q to someone else

HTH 73 David M0OSA

Sent from my iPhone


Sent from my iPhone


Charles Ristorcelli <nn3v_6@...>
 

Thanks Neil, Dave, and Pat.

 

Well, the VAC website is certainly instructive. And I fully understand the concept of Virtual Audio Cable. I simply did not know there was a software product called Virtual Audio Cable (VAC), and that I needed it!

 

I am now curious about the actual set-up steps. I’ve had many pleasures working with Windows sound card applications and set-up, other applications that must play with Windows, etc.

 

None were pleasant experiences!!.

 

And the VAC user’s manual is extensive and detailed, but not I/O proof. For example, the startup instructions state one should make sure the control panel has 1 – 3 cables indicated

 

I see the control panel, rather intimidating! Then I see in upper left hand corner an icon for cable, and a numeral 1, and a corresponding intimidating line of digital gobbledygook in the lower display that corresponds to the cable 1.

 

Boy, that is really clear………….. DUH!

 

How does one marry all that good stuff to the FDM-DUO SW2 application, and other applications like the logging program?

 

I am looking forward to learning that.

 

Don't believe what you think!

73 de NN3V

Charlie


Michael Gottlieb
 

I am having the same issue as Charlie. I played around with SW2 for several hours last night and I was unable to set up split with rx in one ear and tx in another ear.

Actually, I was unable to enable split in sw2 at all such that when I transmitted, the RX frequency would change to the TX frequency.

KF6HCL


---In elad_sdr_en@..., <nn3v_6@...> wrote :

Hi Neil and all.

Well, in deference to my /O problem I mentioned earlier (Idiot/Operator), I did find the VAC webpage.

Yes, I now have an intuitive understanding of what "Virtual Audio" means in this case.

And Neil, your elaboration was excellent. I can intimate what is meant when one "ports" an audio channel to an application. I think I got that.

So somewhere there must be a control panel, or control application that allows specification of what is to be ported where.

I see in your explanation that you port things to WSJT. Got it.

In my case, I set the playback and recording sound sources for Windows 7 to the FDM audio drivers. Then I set the sound input and output sources of WSJT, HRD, N1MM, DX4WIN, etc. to follow the FDM-DUO drivers.

It all works wonderfully.

But now, how on earth does one get to operate split?

All I want to do is start FDM-DUO SW2, display the band, tune a DX station on VRX1 and listen to the DX station in my left ear. Then, when I see the pile-up responding to the DX station's call, activate VRX2, make it the transmit frequency, and listen to the pile-up in my right ear.

My logging program will do what it has to do, and I can "tune" by watching the pile-up display.

Then I want to activate VRX2, make it the TX slice, and listen to the pile-up using VRX2.

I tried to understand how VAC operates by reading their webpage. VERY comprehensive. Now, if I wanted a PhD in VAC, I'd spend a lot of time there.

I downloaded VAC 4.0.9 and at first Windows 7 balked at installing it. Now it is installed and I am extremely pleased to see the very nice control panel it gives.

But how the heck does one marry VAC to FDM-DUO SW2 in order to achieve a split function?

BTW, to all who may be wondering why these stupid questions.

I asked ELAD about the possibility of an explanation about these set-up procedures.

 Franco sent me a separate email saying a new SW2 users manual is due out, and will go into detail on the audio channel setups.

FANTASTIC!

Go ELAD.


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Working split: (I hope the images come out OK....)

1) Click RX1 red button (unless already selected - you should see the red underline beneath the button to say RX1 is the tuning context.)

2) Set to the required receive frequency and mode, ie where the DX is transmitting, say 14240kHz USB

3) Click the RX2 yellow button, it should go solid yellow and underlined. Set the required transmit frequency and mode, say 10 up, 14250kHz USB

4) Click the yellow TX above the waterfall to set yellow channel as transmit.  DUO should now have SP on the display

5) Ensure that the speaker icon for the RX1 channel (to the left of the volume slider) is enabled

That's it.

Leave the yellow channel in the selected tuning context so you can move RX frequency, or click the red RX1 to put that into tuning context if the DX moves frequency. 

When you transmit, the frequency and mode will be those set for the yellow RX2 channel.  Receive will be the frequency and mode of the red RX1 channel.  Make sure both L and R are selected on RX1.  Vital setting: In Setup->Audio, make sure you uncheck the "Mute the VRX not selected" button.

Now if you want to have different channels in each ear, unmute the speaker for RX2, unselect the R channel for RX1 and select only the R channel for RX2.  That puts the red RX1 in your left ear and the yellow RX2 in your right ear.

If you want to get really fancy, select the RX3 channel and point that at another part of the pileup and select the right channel for RX3, and you will have the DX on RX1 in your left ear and the RX2 and RX3 in your right ear.  For total madness, do the same for RX4.


And that is all there is to it.  Ignore the Vol2 setting in my screen, that is for my AUX output for digimodes, spectral analysis and so on.
Neil G4DBN

On 15/06/2016 21:49, michaelgottlieb@... [elad_sdr_en] wrote:
 

I am having the same issue as Charlie. I played around with SW2 for several hours last night and I was unable to set up split with rx in one ear and tx in another ear.


Actually, I was unable to enable split in sw2 at all such that when I transmitted, the RX frequency would change to the TX frequency.

KF6HCL


---In elad_sdr_en@..., wrote :

Hi Neil and all.

Well, in deference to my /O problem I mentioned earlier (Idiot/Operator), I did find the VAC webpage.

Yes, I now have an intuitive understanding of what "Virtual Audio" means in this case.

And Neil, your elaboration was excellent. I can intimate what is meant when one "ports" an audio channel to an application. I think I got that.

So somewhere there must be a control panel, or control application that! allows specification of what is to be ported where.

I see in your explanation that you port things to WSJT. Got it.

In my case, I set the playback and recording sound sources for Windows 7 to the FDM audio drivers. Then I set the sound input and output sources of WSJT, HRD, N1MM, DX4WIN, etc. to follow the FDM-DUO drivers.

It all works wonderfully.

But now, how on earth does one get to operate split?

All I want to do is start FDM-DUO SW2, display the band, tune a DX station on VRX1 and listen to the DX station in my left ear. Then, when I see the pile-up responding to the DX station's call, activate VRX2, make it the transmit frequency, and listen to the pile-up in my right ear.

My logging program will do what it has to do, and I can "tune" by watching the pile-up display.

Then I want to activate VRX2, make it the TX slice, and listen to the pile-up using VRX2.

I tried to understand how VAC operates by r! eading their webpage. VERY comprehensive. Now, if I wanted a PhD in VAC, I'd spend a lot of time there.

I downloaded VAC 4.0.9 and at first Windows 7 balked at installing it. Now it is installed and I am extremely pleased to see the very nice control panel it gives.

But how the heck does one marry VAC to FDM-DUO SW2 in order to achieve a split function?

BTW, to all who may be wondering why these stupid questions.

I asked ELAD about the possibility of an explanation about these set-up procedures.

 Franco sent me a separate email saying a new SW2 users manual is due out, and will go into detail on the audio channel setups.

FANTASTIC!

Go ELAD.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Charles Ristorcelli <nn3v_6@...>
 

Thanks Neil, and thanks Mike for confirming I am not the only one having issues.

 

Neil: Thanks for your comments. I will try all that later today.

 

Mike:

 

Just as far as getting TX to happen on RX2 frequency, once you command RX2 so that the slice appears on the pan display, you then have to click ta the bottom of the slice display and click on the RX that shows under the display, and click it to TX.

 

Then the RX2 frequency becomes RX and TX, with TX on that frequency.

 

YA HOO! I’ve mastered that much….:=))

 

Don't believe what you think!

73 de NN3V

Charlie


Charles Ristorcelli <nn3v_6@...>
 

More regarding my earlier post.

 

Mike, as you probably realize, my response was a very short version of the excellent response Neil gave you on the same question.

 

Moral of my response?

 

Read all posts before setting fingers to keyboard!   :=))

 

Don't believe what you think!

73 de NN3V

Charlie


Patrick Bouldin
 

Neil,

Those were great instructions, and I experimented with success. Awesome capabilities. But, answers lead to more questions!

You know the part where you encouraged putting RX1, RX2 and RX3 in different ear configurations?

Immediately I thought: What if I hooked up 4 speakers for spatial separation?!

Wow that would be really nifty. How to do that?

One way I can think of would be to take my Alesis USB/Firewire Audio mixer and connect it to the same PC. Then I could assign each of the RX channels to my software (maybe mixpad). Then I would push out each channel to a different mixer aux-out port and line level wire that to a small powered speaker. Important to use the line level as that's not amplified as is the XLR/Mic.

What do you think? Awesome if it will work. That way your brain can really fire on all cylinders - you could keep things sort of consistent with the colors Red far left, yellow next, etc.... In this way your operator skills would be very quick instead of trying to figure things out there is 3D context on everything.

This is exciting stuff. Innovation.

73, Patrick KM5L



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Reminds me of the "cocktail-party effect" papers from the 1970s, where a binaural phasing network was used to spread out the received audio frequencies from left to right, so your brain could concentrate on a signal coming from a particular "direction".

Not sure you can do anything to filter out the policemen shouting "SPLEEEEEET!" "UP UP UP", "WRONG VFO EEEDIOTTT" though!

Neil G4DBN


Patrick Bouldin
 

Oh well we can solve that. Let's see: Let's use the GPIO pins out on a raspberry pi and mount an LED on top of each speaker, just to make sure we know which channel is transmitting! When can even put an LED display on top of each speaker that displays the operating frequency!

It could get crazy, but what fun!

Patrick


Otso Ylönen
 

I use a multi-track recorder called Reaper to record DX radio from two Elads and four Sony XDR receivers. If I want, I can do this simultaneously on the eight channels from the Elads and four fom the Sonys. Generally, however, on good DX conditions I have 2x6 MHz RF recording ongoing without real-time audio monitoring and pan the audio from my four Sonys to my headphones (100%L, 33%L, 33%R, 100%R).
 
For the Elads, I use Virtual Audio Cable to route the audio channels to Reaper. The sonys are connected via physical cables to USB audio devices.
 
BR, Otso
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2016 um 17:37 Uhr
Von: "pbouldin@... [elad_sdr_en]"
An: elad_sdr_en@...
Betreff: Re: [elad_sdr_en] Re: FDM-SW2 questions
 

Oh well we can solve that. Let's see: Let's use the GPIO pins out on a raspberry pi and mount an LED on top of each speaker, just to make sure we know which channel is transmitting! When can even put an LED display on top of each speaker that displays the operating frequency!

 
It could get crazy, but what fun!
 
Patrick

 


Michael Gottlieb
 

I think I under stand all of it.


What was throwing me is that even if you are in split, in sw2, the frequency does not change on the screen.


I transmit on a different freq and the fdm-duo changes the display to show the transmit frequency but sw2 does not show the freq changing.


Thank you for your help.


KF6HCL


Michael Gottlieb
 

Thanks Charlie, what is throwing me is that, at the top of the slice display, as I understand it:


Unbolded/ubboxed TX is really RX and


TX is only TX if the TX is Bold and highlighted.


It would seem more intuitive if the letters on the top of the panadapter slices really said both rx and tx and that the freq would change in sw2 when you work split.


And in regular operation, the RX should be the default letters on the top of the panadapter and it should change to TX in addition to the red letters TX appearing in the upper right hand corner, when you transmit.


In summary, the letters TX should only show up when I am transmitting :-)


Side note, FDM-DUO is a gem. More hams should buy them. Don't give me a hard time about the QRP wattage. I have the RM Italy amp and am putting out 200 watts in the ham shack.


And the best kept secret is that it is an AMAZING qrp rig.


This is a flex with the ability to take it with you. It's what all hams wanted, a flex with knobs.


Was super excited about the Icom 7300 and good for it as a stand alone rig but no high def dvi output, no Ethernet jack, limited PC connection. FDM-DUO and SQ2 is light years beyond anything except for flex.


SW2 is outstanding software. The rig is A+++ quality. My favorite purchase as a ham ever!


KF6HCL


Charles Ristorcelli <nn3v_6@...>
 

Neil, Mike, and all.

 

Great stuff.

 

Questions and answers (I think) continue.

 

For Mike.

 

When you activate RX1 and RX2, you indeed have two slices on the pan display. Each slice is delivering the demodulated signal audio to left & right ear.

 

Unless you specify that RX2 is to become the TX, if you transmit, the transmitted frequency will be the same to which RX1 is tuned, as RX1 is always the TX unless you command otherwise.

 

However, if you command RX2 to become the TX, the TX symbol moves under the RX2 slice, and should you transmit, transmission will occur on the RX2 frequency.

 

I’m not sure how any of the various logging programs handle that frequency difference.

 

For DX chasing, the frequency that counts, assuming anyone cares about the frequency reported in a QSL, is the DX station’s “transmit frequency” that is the one to which RX1 is tuned, and, in my case, is what HRD and N1MM record for the log entry.

 

If you must know the specific transmit frequency to which RX2 was tuned, I am not sure I know how to do that.

 

All I know is when I tune to the DX station’s “receive frequency”, transmit through RX2 on the frequency to which the DX station is listening and the DX station hears me, I hear NN3V 59.

 

That is all I care about!!

 

Again, great stuff guys!

 

Now if I could just get the audio to split on my headphones, I’ll be a happy camper!

 

Don't believe what you think!

73 de NN3V

Charlie