Date   

Re: S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

Nils Schiffhauer
 

... thanks, Bill, for a first live-insight into the hopefully upcoming FDM-S3.

Your 24 MHz files are playing smoothly from a conventional internal HD. As soon as I will have an FDM-S3 at hand, I also can try recording ... ;-)

73 Nils, DK8OK

Am 10.05.2019 um 01:46 schrieb Bill Nollman:

Link in 2b corrected…

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:42 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: [EladSDR] S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

 

As promised here are three 1 minute S3 captures showing great FM DX examples.

--
dk8ok.org


VS: [EladSDR] S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

Otso Ylönen
 

Sounds exciting. I will check these out once back from my cottage, my off-grid MW site.

 

BR, Otso

Lähettäjä: Bill Nollman
Lähetetty: perjantai 10. toukokuuta 2019 4.46
Vastaanottaja: EladSDR@groups.io
Aihe: Re: [EladSDR] S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

 

Link in 2b corrected…

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:42 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: [EladSDR] S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

 

As promised here are three 1 minute S3 captures showing great FM DX examples. They are 8GB each. Remember, to play them you must have FDM-SW2 v3.000 or higher and more than likely you won’t be able to get them to play without skipping unless they are on an SSD. Some newer SATA USB3 drives may work for playback only.

 

1. From Zeeland, North Dakota this past summer. I had an APS-13 FM yagi at 32 feet high very far from civilization. The S3 internal pre-amp was used. This was the peak of an amazing day of Eskip. Easily heard is 97.9 from Rochester, NY and 106.7 has Georgia – at the same time. This map shows some but not all of the places received.

2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/avge7f7lfrkh4xl/2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav?dl=0

 

 

2a. From the East coast of Prince Edward Island in November (MW DX trip). The APS-13 FM yagi is at 20 feet high, S3 pre-amp is on. This is one of many examples of long Meteor Scatter “trains”. Not the usual ¼ second pings that most people are familiar with but a full 10 seconds of reception across the full FM dial. It’s amazing what an SDR can do in such a quiet location!

2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/66jq6ogl85xdir1/2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav?dl=0

 

2b. A listing of the 20+ stations identified in this 10 second Meteor Scatter train - https://www.dropbox.com/s/12dvnzfzngnojc8/Meteor%20Scatter%2010%20seconds.xlsx?dl=0

 

 

3. And then as a complete opposite of the previous 2 files, my local dial. This is about as bad as it gets for FM DX. The APS-13 yagi at 25 feet, S3 with no pre-amp. I’m within 3 to 10 miles of every Hartford, CT transmitter, all of the HD sidebands, low power broadcasters and even the disaster on 104.1 that spills RF so wide the FCC should do something about it. This is why I love my S3 because it has made FM DX possible again for me!

2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/fiugpikxrkts4vh/2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav?dl=0

 

 

By the way, RDS Spy is still much better at decoding RDS than the RDS panel in FDM-SW2. However there are times when the FDM-SW2 RDS panel will lock onto RDS that RDS Spy will not. It’s weird. I have both running at all times.

 

And finally a big thank you to Keith for letting me use his Dropbox account to share these files. And an even bigger thank you to Franco for trusting me to alpha test the S3!

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:58 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Otso,

 

Yes, storage media is a challenge. I have 3 – 2TB SSD’s primarily so that I can fill one (about 3:45 at 24MHz), pull it off the laptop and put it on a second laptop and copy to a 10TB drive while I record onto a second 2TB SSD. I wish bigger SSD’s were available to the consumer market (at work I sell 30TB SSD’s ;-)

 

Recording is much more finicky than playback. Below shows my I drive – reading at 150MB/s and writing (recording) at 227MB/s. The numbers jump around a lot but expect peaks well above 200MB/s for recording. For playing back some big SATA drives might work ok. I like to use ATTO Disk Benchmark (free) software to test my SSD’s - https://www.atto.com/disk-benchmark/  It is surprising how varied the results can be especially between older and newer SSD’s.

 

I will upload a few 1 minute 24MHz recordings. At 8GB each Dropbox take an hour or two per file.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Otso Ylönen
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:19 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Sounds amazing, Bill! Thanks for sharing.

 

The requirement on storage speed and size will be a real issue with these beasts. I have been able to manage with three S2s on a fast desktop with a stack of 10TB SATA drives. The SSD requirement will lead to continuous copying of recordings. Is it really so that you cannot even play the big files back from a normal hard disk?

 

A great innovation would be a way to set the bandwidth of a recording on the fly. Especially with Es, the MUF varies quite rapidly and a continuous recording at 24MHz will create a lot of waste.

 

It would be nice to see and hear some of your captures!

 

BR, Otso

Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Mai 2019 um 13:50 Uhr
Von: "Bill Nollman" <
billct97@...>
An: 
EladSDR@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

Wow the embedded screen shot looks terrible. Here’s a link to download it - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d74xmaoldx6sciu/S3.JPG?dl=0

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 8:45 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Paul;

 

The S3 has a hardware pre-amp (so Franco tells me) built into the software (FDM-SW2). In quiet locations it definitely is needed. In high RF areas it is not needed. And yes, I agree both the S2 and S3 do very well with a big outdoor antenna but in some cases can be a bit weak without a pre-amp. So the S3 pre-amp is very welcome! In the screen shot below notice there is also a 10, 20, 30dB attenuator for the opposite problem (upper right corner marked ATT 0dB in the drop down menu). I have been lucky to alpha test an S3 and I can tell you that it performs very well for weak Meteor Scatter, weak Tropo and all kinds of Eskip and local conditions. I haven’t done any extensive A/B testing against S2 or an analog tuner but I’d agree that both the S2 and S3 seem just a small bit less sensitive than my best analog FM tuners (Yamaha T85 and a Denon TU800). Given that you can capture 24MHz at a time I am more than ok with this and actually no longer own an analog FM tuner, sold one of my S2’s and the other S2 has been loaned to a friend.

 

On your other question about the interface. USB3.1 (works on 3.0 ports, has the wider two level USB end). No Ethernet. Other things you may want to know are that it requires a 12VDC regulated power supply. This was a little disappointing to me as much of my FM captures are done in the car or on top of a mountain and S2 was perfect being USB powered. I have adapted and found there are some laptop battery replacement bricks that work well as a remote power supply for S3. Even a bunch of D batteries correctly wired works fine and make it through the airport without scrutiny.

 

My FM DX hobby has been completely transformed by the S3 (works great on MW too). In the past I had to run 4 serial captures with S2. With S3 Eskip across the full 20MHz is amazing! Meteor Scatter is just amazing to watch when it hits – sometimes you see the whole band light up, sometimes only select frequencies. The only downside is the hours and hours and hours that I have spent DXing from captures when I should have been doing something more family friendly….

 

One thing everyone should know about recording at 12MHz or 24MHz – you MUST have an SSD drive to record to. At 6MHz FDM-SW2 writes at about 50MB/sec. at 12MHz it’s 100MB/sec. That can usually be handled by most big 4, 8, 10TB “SATA” drives you can find most anywhere for under $200. However at 24MHz you need at least 200MB/sec and SSD is the only option for that (most SSD go to 500MB/sec). The first 2TB SSD I bought was over $500 a year ago. They are now under $300 although I’ve had mixed results with Micron SSD’s (skipping, what else?) and prefer this Sandisk which is now $240 and both of mine have been reliable. Disk space is also a concern – 8GB per minute at 24MHz!

 

And finally, if anyone is interested I can upload some S3 captures. I have some amazing Meteor Scatter I captured in super quiet Prince Edward Island and full dial Eskip from quiet North Dakota last summer. I could even upload a local dial capture and you will see why I never DX at home any more. As long as you have FDM-SW2 version 3.00 or later and an SSD drive you should be able to play these files. Just ask and I’ll upload sometime soon.

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

 

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 4:59 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

The S2 has coverage of the FM broadcast band by undersampling IIRC, I know of a few FM-DXers that use it that say it requires a pre-amp to achieve maximum sensitivity because without it it's a bit deaf at Band II frequencies. Is the S3 using the same method for VHF coverage, I don't have an issue with fitting a pre-amp but am curious about the design of the receiver.

What is the interface for the S3, USB or ethernet? The latter is notoriously noisy at low VHF frequencies so a well chosen fully screened ethernet cable will be required if it uses ethernet, hopefully something of quality has been selected by Elad should it ship with one.

Looking forward to the release, and the possibility of seeing all of FM broadcast in 16 bit!

Paul

 

 

 


Re: FDM-S3 HF Antenna Ports

Nils Schiffhauer
 

... and: any provision for an external reference like 10 MHz/GPS? 73 Nils, DK8OK

Am 10.05.2019 um 05:14 schrieb Bjarne Mjelde:
Judging from the pictures at elad.it, there are three antenna ports on the new S3, two of them marked "HF". Are the ports designated for specific portions of the range, or will it be possible to change antenna with the software (CloudIQ-style)?

Bjarne Mjelde
arcticdx.blogspot.com
--
dk8ok.org


FDM-S3 HF Antenna Ports

Bjarne Mjelde
 

Judging from the pictures at elad.it, there are three antenna ports on the new S3, two of them marked "HF". Are the ports designated for specific portions of the range, or will it be possible to change antenna with the software (CloudIQ-style)?

Bjarne Mjelde
arcticdx.blogspot.com


Re: S3 Update

Bill Nollman
 

Otso,

 

My laptop is a 4 year old Lenovo W540. It works almost flawlessly for recording and playback (are any SDR recordings 100% flawless ???). One thing I like about this model is that I can remove the DVD drive and insert a caddy that can hold the 2TB SSD internal to the laptop. The caddy comes out in seconds to swap the SSD as well. The W540 also has a removable external battery (I have 5 of them). This design makes it very flexible for remote recordings. Newer laptops will utilize one or more internal NVMe M.2 style flash drives and some laptops are still available with swappable batteries (Lenovo P series for example). Of course not everyone will need the battery feature and some laptops draw less power and can be used with laptop battery “bricks”.  Do also remember that the S3 requires a regulated 12VDC power supply which at home is simple but on the road is a bit more effort.

 

The W540 specs are here - https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w540/

 

I don’t know if there are specs for the S3 but any decent i7 and maybe i5 should do. For 12MHz (100MB/sec write) and 24MHz (200MB/sec write) captures an SSD is required.

 

Bill

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Otso Ylönen
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 1:34 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Thanks Bill, looking forward to try those samples!

 

I'd be interested to know what is the spec of your laptop, also is there a spec available for the S3?

 

BR, Otso

 

Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Mai 2019 um 23:57 Uhr
Von: "Bill Nollman" <billct97@...>
An: EladSDR@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

Otso,

 

Yes, storage media is a challenge. I have 3 – 2TB SSD’s primarily so that I can fill one (about 3:45 at 24MHz), pull it off the laptop and put it on a second laptop and copy to a 10TB drive while I record onto a second 2TB SSD. I wish bigger SSD’s were available to the consumer market (at work I sell 30TB SSD’s ;-)

 

Recording is much more finicky than playback. Below shows my I drive – reading at 150MB/s and writing (recording) at 227MB/s. The numbers jump around a lot but expect peaks well above 200MB/s for recording. For playing back some big SATA drives might work ok. I like to use ATTO Disk Benchmark (free) software to test my SSD’s - https://www.atto.com/disk-benchmark/  It is surprising how varied the results can be especially between older and newer SSD’s.

 

I will upload a few 1 minute 24MHz recordings. At 8GB each Dropbox take an hour or two per file.

 

Bill

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Otso Ylönen
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:19 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Sounds amazing, Bill! Thanks for sharing.

 

The requirement on storage speed and size will be a real issue with these beasts. I have been able to manage with three S2s on a fast desktop with a stack of 10TB SATA drives. The SSD requirement will lead to continuous copying of recordings. Is it really so that you cannot even play the big files back from a normal hard disk?

 

A great innovation would be a way to set the bandwidth of a recording on the fly. Especially with Es, the MUF varies quite rapidly and a continuous recording at 24MHz will create a lot of waste.

 

It would be nice to see and hear some of your captures!

 

BR, Otso

Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Mai 2019 um 13:50 Uhr
Von: "Bill Nollman" <billct97@...>
An: EladSDR@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

Wow the embedded screen shot looks terrible. Here’s a link to download it - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d74xmaoldx6sciu/S3.JPG?dl=0

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 8:45 AM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Paul;

 

The S3 has a hardware pre-amp (so Franco tells me) built into the software (FDM-SW2). In quiet locations it definitely is needed. In high RF areas it is not needed. And yes, I agree both the S2 and S3 do very well with a big outdoor antenna but in some cases can be a bit weak without a pre-amp. So the S3 pre-amp is very welcome! In the screen shot below notice there is also a 10, 20, 30dB attenuator for the opposite problem (upper right corner marked ATT 0dB in the drop down menu). I have been lucky to alpha test an S3 and I can tell you that it performs very well for weak Meteor Scatter, weak Tropo and all kinds of Eskip and local conditions. I haven’t done any extensive A/B testing against S2 or an analog tuner but I’d agree that both the S2 and S3 seem just a small bit less sensitive than my best analog FM tuners (Yamaha T85 and a Denon TU800). Given that you can capture 24MHz at a time I am more than ok with this and actually no longer own an analog FM tuner, sold one of my S2’s and the other S2 has been loaned to a friend.

 

On your other question about the interface. USB3.1 (works on 3.0 ports, has the wider two level USB end). No Ethernet. Other things you may want to know are that it requires a 12VDC regulated power supply. This was a little disappointing to me as much of my FM captures are done in the car or on top of a mountain and S2 was perfect being USB powered. I have adapted and found there are some laptop battery replacement bricks that work well as a remote power supply for S3. Even a bunch of D batteries correctly wired works fine and make it through the airport without scrutiny.

 

My FM DX hobby has been completely transformed by the S3 (works great on MW too). In the past I had to run 4 serial captures with S2. With S3 Eskip across the full 20MHz is amazing! Meteor Scatter is just amazing to watch when it hits – sometimes you see the whole band light up, sometimes only select frequencies. The only downside is the hours and hours and hours that I have spent DXing from captures when I should have been doing something more family friendly….

 

One thing everyone should know about recording at 12MHz or 24MHz – you MUST have an SSD drive to record to. At 6MHz FDM-SW2 writes at about 50MB/sec. at 12MHz it’s 100MB/sec. That can usually be handled by most big 4, 8, 10TB “SATA” drives you can find most anywhere for under $200. However at 24MHz you need at least 200MB/sec and SSD is the only option for that (most SSD go to 500MB/sec). The first 2TB SSD I bought was over $500 a year ago. They are now under $300 although I’ve had mixed results with Micron SSD’s (skipping, what else?) and prefer this Sandisk which is now $240 and both of mine have been reliable. Disk space is also a concern – 8GB per minute at 24MHz!

 

And finally, if anyone is interested I can upload some S3 captures. I have some amazing Meteor Scatter I captured in super quiet Prince Edward Island and full dial Eskip from quiet North Dakota last summer. I could even upload a local dial capture and you will see why I never DX at home any more. As long as you have FDM-SW2 version 3.00 or later and an SSD drive you should be able to play these files. Just ask and I’ll upload sometime soon.

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

A screenshot of a computer

Description automatically generated

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 4:59 AM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

The S2 has coverage of the FM broadcast band by undersampling IIRC, I know of a few FM-DXers that use it that say it requires a pre-amp to achieve maximum sensitivity because without it it's a bit deaf at Band II frequencies. Is the S3 using the same method for VHF coverage, I don't have an issue with fitting a pre-amp but am curious about the design of the receiver.

What is the interface for the S3, USB or ethernet? The latter is notoriously noisy at low VHF frequencies so a well chosen fully screened ethernet cable will be required if it uses ethernet, hopefully something of quality has been selected by Elad should it ship with one.

Looking forward to the release, and the possibility of seeing all of FM broadcast in 16 bit!

Paul

 

 


Re: S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

Bill Nollman
 

Link in 2b corrected…

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:42 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: [EladSDR] S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

 

As promised here are three 1 minute S3 captures showing great FM DX examples. They are 8GB each. Remember, to play them you must have FDM-SW2 v3.000 or higher and more than likely you won’t be able to get them to play without skipping unless they are on an SSD. Some newer SATA USB3 drives may work for playback only.

 

1. From Zeeland, North Dakota this past summer. I had an APS-13 FM yagi at 32 feet high very far from civilization. The S3 internal pre-amp was used. This was the peak of an amazing day of Eskip. Easily heard is 97.9 from Rochester, NY and 106.7 has Georgia – at the same time. This map shows some but not all of the places received.

2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/avge7f7lfrkh4xl/2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav?dl=0

 

 

2a. From the East coast of Prince Edward Island in November (MW DX trip). The APS-13 FM yagi is at 20 feet high, S3 pre-amp is on. This is one of many examples of long Meteor Scatter “trains”. Not the usual ¼ second pings that most people are familiar with but a full 10 seconds of reception across the full FM dial. It’s amazing what an SDR can do in such a quiet location!

2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/66jq6ogl85xdir1/2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav?dl=0

 

2b. A listing of the 20+ stations identified in this 10 second Meteor Scatter train - https://www.dropbox.com/s/12dvnzfzngnojc8/Meteor%20Scatter%2010%20seconds.xlsx?dl=0

 

 

3. And then as a complete opposite of the previous 2 files, my local dial. This is about as bad as it gets for FM DX. The APS-13 yagi at 25 feet, S3 with no pre-amp. I’m within 3 to 10 miles of every Hartford, CT transmitter, all of the HD sidebands, low power broadcasters and even the disaster on 104.1 that spills RF so wide the FCC should do something about it. This is why I love my S3 because it has made FM DX possible again for me!

2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/fiugpikxrkts4vh/2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav?dl=0

 

 

By the way, RDS Spy is still much better at decoding RDS than the RDS panel in FDM-SW2. However there are times when the FDM-SW2 RDS panel will lock onto RDS that RDS Spy will not. It’s weird. I have both running at all times.

 

And finally a big thank you to Keith for letting me use his Dropbox account to share these files. And an even bigger thank you to Franco for trusting me to alpha test the S3!

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:58 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Otso,

 

Yes, storage media is a challenge. I have 3 – 2TB SSD’s primarily so that I can fill one (about 3:45 at 24MHz), pull it off the laptop and put it on a second laptop and copy to a 10TB drive while I record onto a second 2TB SSD. I wish bigger SSD’s were available to the consumer market (at work I sell 30TB SSD’s ;-)

 

Recording is much more finicky than playback. Below shows my I drive – reading at 150MB/s and writing (recording) at 227MB/s. The numbers jump around a lot but expect peaks well above 200MB/s for recording. For playing back some big SATA drives might work ok. I like to use ATTO Disk Benchmark (free) software to test my SSD’s - https://www.atto.com/disk-benchmark/  It is surprising how varied the results can be especially between older and newer SSD’s.

 

I will upload a few 1 minute 24MHz recordings. At 8GB each Dropbox take an hour or two per file.

 

Bill

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Otso Ylönen
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:19 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Sounds amazing, Bill! Thanks for sharing.

 

The requirement on storage speed and size will be a real issue with these beasts. I have been able to manage with three S2s on a fast desktop with a stack of 10TB SATA drives. The SSD requirement will lead to continuous copying of recordings. Is it really so that you cannot even play the big files back from a normal hard disk?

 

A great innovation would be a way to set the bandwidth of a recording on the fly. Especially with Es, the MUF varies quite rapidly and a continuous recording at 24MHz will create a lot of waste.

 

It would be nice to see and hear some of your captures!

 

BR, Otso

Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Mai 2019 um 13:50 Uhr
Von: "Bill Nollman" <
billct97@...>
An: 
EladSDR@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

Wow the embedded screen shot looks terrible. Here’s a link to download it - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d74xmaoldx6sciu/S3.JPG?dl=0

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 8:45 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Paul;

 

The S3 has a hardware pre-amp (so Franco tells me) built into the software (FDM-SW2). In quiet locations it definitely is needed. In high RF areas it is not needed. And yes, I agree both the S2 and S3 do very well with a big outdoor antenna but in some cases can be a bit weak without a pre-amp. So the S3 pre-amp is very welcome! In the screen shot below notice there is also a 10, 20, 30dB attenuator for the opposite problem (upper right corner marked ATT 0dB in the drop down menu). I have been lucky to alpha test an S3 and I can tell you that it performs very well for weak Meteor Scatter, weak Tropo and all kinds of Eskip and local conditions. I haven’t done any extensive A/B testing against S2 or an analog tuner but I’d agree that both the S2 and S3 seem just a small bit less sensitive than my best analog FM tuners (Yamaha T85 and a Denon TU800). Given that you can capture 24MHz at a time I am more than ok with this and actually no longer own an analog FM tuner, sold one of my S2’s and the other S2 has been loaned to a friend.

 

On your other question about the interface. USB3.1 (works on 3.0 ports, has the wider two level USB end). No Ethernet. Other things you may want to know are that it requires a 12VDC regulated power supply. This was a little disappointing to me as much of my FM captures are done in the car or on top of a mountain and S2 was perfect being USB powered. I have adapted and found there are some laptop battery replacement bricks that work well as a remote power supply for S3. Even a bunch of D batteries correctly wired works fine and make it through the airport without scrutiny.

 

My FM DX hobby has been completely transformed by the S3 (works great on MW too). In the past I had to run 4 serial captures with S2. With S3 Eskip across the full 20MHz is amazing! Meteor Scatter is just amazing to watch when it hits – sometimes you see the whole band light up, sometimes only select frequencies. The only downside is the hours and hours and hours that I have spent DXing from captures when I should have been doing something more family friendly….

 

One thing everyone should know about recording at 12MHz or 24MHz – you MUST have an SSD drive to record to. At 6MHz FDM-SW2 writes at about 50MB/sec. at 12MHz it’s 100MB/sec. That can usually be handled by most big 4, 8, 10TB “SATA” drives you can find most anywhere for under $200. However at 24MHz you need at least 200MB/sec and SSD is the only option for that (most SSD go to 500MB/sec). The first 2TB SSD I bought was over $500 a year ago. They are now under $300 although I’ve had mixed results with Micron SSD’s (skipping, what else?) and prefer this Sandisk which is now $240 and both of mine have been reliable. Disk space is also a concern – 8GB per minute at 24MHz!

 

And finally, if anyone is interested I can upload some S3 captures. I have some amazing Meteor Scatter I captured in super quiet Prince Edward Island and full dial Eskip from quiet North Dakota last summer. I could even upload a local dial capture and you will see why I never DX at home any more. As long as you have FDM-SW2 version 3.00 or later and an SSD drive you should be able to play these files. Just ask and I’ll upload sometime soon.

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

 

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 4:59 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

The S2 has coverage of the FM broadcast band by undersampling IIRC, I know of a few FM-DXers that use it that say it requires a pre-amp to achieve maximum sensitivity because without it it's a bit deaf at Band II frequencies. Is the S3 using the same method for VHF coverage, I don't have an issue with fitting a pre-amp but am curious about the design of the receiver.

What is the interface for the S3, USB or ethernet? The latter is notoriously noisy at low VHF frequencies so a well chosen fully screened ethernet cable will be required if it uses ethernet, hopefully something of quality has been selected by Elad should it ship with one.

Looking forward to the release, and the possibility of seeing all of FM broadcast in 16 bit!

Paul

 

 


S3 - 24MHz FM Broadcast Captures for Download

Bill Nollman
 

As promised here are three 1 minute S3 captures showing great FM DX examples. They are 8GB each. Remember, to play them you must have FDM-SW2 v3.000 or higher and more than likely you won’t be able to get them to play without skipping unless they are on an SSD. Some newer SATA USB3 drives may work for playback only.

 

1. From Zeeland, North Dakota this past summer. I had an APS-13 FM yagi at 32 feet high very far from civilization. The S3 internal pre-amp was used. This was the peak of an amazing day of Eskip. Easily heard is 97.9 from Rochester, NY and 106.7 has Georgia – at the same time. This map shows some but not all of the places received.

2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/avge7f7lfrkh4xl/2018-07-10-TUE-317pm-Eskip-SE_035.wav?dl=0

 

 

2a. From the East coast of Prince Edward Island in November (MW DX trip). The APS-13 FM yagi is at 20 feet high, S3 pre-amp is on. This is one of many examples of long Meteor Scatter “trains”. Not the usual ¼ second pings that most people are familiar with but a full 10 seconds of reception across the full FM dial. It’s amazing what an SDR can do in such a quiet location!

2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/66jq6ogl85xdir1/2018-11-07-WED-60deg-MS-1054am-Ant-at-20ft_064.wav?dl=0

 

2b. A listing of the 20+ stations identified in this 10 second Meteor Scatter train - https://www.dropbox.com/s/awcjkf07e49geqz/Meteor%20Scatter%2010%20seconds.xlsx?dl=0

 

 

3. And then as a complete opposite of the previous 2 files, my local dial. This is about as bad as it gets for FM DX. The APS-13 yagi at 25 feet, S3 with no pre-amp. I’m within 3 to 10 miles of every Hartford, CT transmitter, all of the HD sidebands, low power broadcasters and even the disaster on 104.1 that spills RF so wide the FCC should do something about it. This is why I love my S3 because it has made FM DX possible again for me!

2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav - https://www.dropbox.com/s/fiugpikxrkts4vh/2019-05-07-Hartford-CT-S3-1-minute_000.wav?dl=0

 

 

By the way, RDS Spy is still much better at decoding RDS than the RDS panel in FDM-SW2. However there are times when the FDM-SW2 RDS panel will lock onto RDS that RDS Spy will not. It’s weird. I have both running at all times.

 

And finally a big thank you to Keith for letting me use his Dropbox account to share these files. And an even bigger thank you to Franco for trusting me to alpha test the S3!

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:58 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Otso,

 

Yes, storage media is a challenge. I have 3 – 2TB SSD’s primarily so that I can fill one (about 3:45 at 24MHz), pull it off the laptop and put it on a second laptop and copy to a 10TB drive while I record onto a second 2TB SSD. I wish bigger SSD’s were available to the consumer market (at work I sell 30TB SSD’s ;-)

 

Recording is much more finicky than playback. Below shows my I drive – reading at 150MB/s and writing (recording) at 227MB/s. The numbers jump around a lot but expect peaks well above 200MB/s for recording. For playing back some big SATA drives might work ok. I like to use ATTO Disk Benchmark (free) software to test my SSD’s - https://www.atto.com/disk-benchmark/  It is surprising how varied the results can be especially between older and newer SSD’s.

 

I will upload a few 1 minute 24MHz recordings. At 8GB each Dropbox take an hour or two per file.

 

Bill

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

 

A screenshot of a cell phone

Description automatically generated

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Otso Ylönen
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 6:19 PM
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Sounds amazing, Bill! Thanks for sharing.

 

The requirement on storage speed and size will be a real issue with these beasts. I have been able to manage with three S2s on a fast desktop with a stack of 10TB SATA drives. The SSD requirement will lead to continuous copying of recordings. Is it really so that you cannot even play the big files back from a normal hard disk?

 

A great innovation would be a way to set the bandwidth of a recording on the fly. Especially with Es, the MUF varies quite rapidly and a continuous recording at 24MHz will create a lot of waste.

 

It would be nice to see and hear some of your captures!

 

BR, Otso

Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Mai 2019 um 13:50 Uhr
Von: "Bill Nollman" <
billct97@...>
An: 
EladSDR@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

Wow the embedded screen shot looks terrible. Here’s a link to download it - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d74xmaoldx6sciu/S3.JPG?dl=0

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Nollman
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 8:45 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

Paul;

 

The S3 has a hardware pre-amp (so Franco tells me) built into the software (FDM-SW2). In quiet locations it definitely is needed. In high RF areas it is not needed. And yes, I agree both the S2 and S3 do very well with a big outdoor antenna but in some cases can be a bit weak without a pre-amp. So the S3 pre-amp is very welcome! In the screen shot below notice there is also a 10, 20, 30dB attenuator for the opposite problem (upper right corner marked ATT 0dB in the drop down menu). I have been lucky to alpha test an S3 and I can tell you that it performs very well for weak Meteor Scatter, weak Tropo and all kinds of Eskip and local conditions. I haven’t done any extensive A/B testing against S2 or an analog tuner but I’d agree that both the S2 and S3 seem just a small bit less sensitive than my best analog FM tuners (Yamaha T85 and a Denon TU800). Given that you can capture 24MHz at a time I am more than ok with this and actually no longer own an analog FM tuner, sold one of my S2’s and the other S2 has been loaned to a friend.

 

On your other question about the interface. USB3.1 (works on 3.0 ports, has the wider two level USB end). No Ethernet. Other things you may want to know are that it requires a 12VDC regulated power supply. This was a little disappointing to me as much of my FM captures are done in the car or on top of a mountain and S2 was perfect being USB powered. I have adapted and found there are some laptop battery replacement bricks that work well as a remote power supply for S3. Even a bunch of D batteries correctly wired works fine and make it through the airport without scrutiny.

 

My FM DX hobby has been completely transformed by the S3 (works great on MW too). In the past I had to run 4 serial captures with S2. With S3 Eskip across the full 20MHz is amazing! Meteor Scatter is just amazing to watch when it hits – sometimes you see the whole band light up, sometimes only select frequencies. The only downside is the hours and hours and hours that I have spent DXing from captures when I should have been doing something more family friendly….

 

One thing everyone should know about recording at 12MHz or 24MHz – you MUST have an SSD drive to record to. At 6MHz FDM-SW2 writes at about 50MB/sec. at 12MHz it’s 100MB/sec. That can usually be handled by most big 4, 8, 10TB “SATA” drives you can find most anywhere for under $200. However at 24MHz you need at least 200MB/sec and SSD is the only option for that (most SSD go to 500MB/sec). The first 2TB SSD I bought was over $500 a year ago. They are now under $300 although I’ve had mixed results with Micron SSD’s (skipping, what else?) and prefer this Sandisk which is now $240 and both of mine have been reliable. Disk space is also a concern – 8GB per minute at 24MHz!

 

And finally, if anyone is interested I can upload some S3 captures. I have some amazing Meteor Scatter I captured in super quiet Prince Edward Island and full dial Eskip from quiet North Dakota last summer. I could even upload a local dial capture and you will see why I never DX at home any more. As long as you have FDM-SW2 version 3.00 or later and an SSD drive you should be able to play these files. Just ask and I’ll upload sometime soon.

 

Bill Nollman

Farmington, CT

USA

 

 

 

From: EladSDR@groups.io <EladSDR@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 4:59 AM
To:
EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: Re: [EladSDR] S3 Update

 

The S2 has coverage of the FM broadcast band by undersampling IIRC, I know of a few FM-DXers that use it that say it requires a pre-amp to achieve maximum sensitivity because without it it's a bit deaf at Band II frequencies. Is the S3 using the same method for VHF coverage, I don't have an issue with fitting a pre-amp but am curious about the design of the receiver.

What is the interface for the S3, USB or ethernet? The latter is notoriously noisy at low VHF frequencies so a well chosen fully screened ethernet cable will be required if it uses ethernet, hopefully something of quality has been selected by Elad should it ship with one.

Looking forward to the release, and the possibility of seeing all of FM broadcast in 16 bit!

Paul

 

 


Re: S3 Update

Paul Jones
 

The tm2 is supported by the software not the radio so yes our SW2 will support it just like the S2


On May 9, 2019, at 12:21, Pete Briggs <p.briggs.surface@...> wrote:

Another quick question please.
Is the S3 compatible with the TM-2?
Thanks


S3 Update

Pete
 

Another quick question please.
Is the S3 compatible with the TM-2?
Thanks


Re: Tuning to nearest 10 Khz

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Always worth asking this sort of question Ron, as someone on the list has probably already come across the same problem as you.  I bet there will be others out there who didn't know the tip about editing the list of step sizes, so it is helpful to the whole user community, both now and in the future when others search the forum archive.

Neil

On 09/05/2019 13:37, Ron Hunsicker via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks very much!  I didn't realize that was possible.


Ron


Re: Tuning to nearest 10 Khz

Ron Hunsicker
 

Thanks very much!  I didn't realize that was possible.


Ron


Re: Elad Remote problem

Heinz-Juergen Kronemeyer
 

Am 09.05.19 um 14:08 schrieb John Palmer via Groups.Io:
Lets call it a senior moment! We all have them glad you now sorted.

Networking is Voodoo, sometimes. :-)


Re: Elad Remote problem

John Palmer
 

Lets call it a senior moment! We all have them glad you now sorted.

John
M0LCD 


On 9 May 2019, at 13:05, Tony EI8JK <ei8jk@...> wrote:

No, not a typo.
Changed the IP to 192.168.1.136 and it now works
Thanks
Tony

On 09/05/2019 11:37, Heinz-Juergen Kronemeyer wrote:


Am 09.05.19 um 12:24 schrieb Tony EI8JK:
Hi Giovanni
The DUO ART IP is 192.168.2.136 and subnet is 255.255.255.0 and gateway is 192.168.1.1
The IP of this computer I'm typing on is 192.168.1.115 and subnet is also 255.255.255.0
I just tried to ping from this PC to the DUO ART and timed out.


192.168.2.136 could not work if you are in a 192.168.1.x Network. Typo? It should be 192.168.1.136

Heinz-Juergen



Re: Elad Remote problem

Tony EI8JK
 

No, not a typo.
Changed the IP to 192.168.1.136 and it now works
Thanks
Tony

On 09/05/2019 11:37, Heinz-Juergen Kronemeyer wrote:


Am 09.05.19 um 12:24 schrieb Tony EI8JK:
Hi Giovanni
The DUO ART IP is 192.168.2.136 and subnet is 255.255.255.0 and gateway is 192.168.1.1
The IP of this computer I'm typing on is 192.168.1.115 and subnet is also 255.255.255.0
I just tried to ping from this PC to the DUO ART and timed out.


192.168.2.136 could not work if you are in a 192.168.1.x Network. Typo? It should be 192.168.1.136

Heinz-Juergen



Re: Elad Remote problem

Giovanni Franza
 

Hi Tony,
I've wrote you in private.
Hoper we are able to solve the issues.
Regards,

Giovanni


Re: Elad Remote problem

Heinz-Juergen Kronemeyer
 


Am 09.05.19 um 12:24 schrieb Tony EI8JK:
Hi Giovanni
The DUO ART IP is 192.168.2.136 and subnet is 255.255.255.0 and gateway is 192.168.1.1
The IP of this computer I'm typing on is 192.168.1.115 and subnet is also 255.255.255.0
I just tried to ping from this PC to the DUO ART and timed out.


192.168.2.136 could not work if you are in a 192.168.1.x Network. Typo? It should be 192.168.1.136

Heinz-Juergen


Re: Elad Remote problem

Tony EI8JK
 

Hi Giovanni
The DUO ART IP is 192.168.2.136 and subnet is 255.255.255.0 and gateway is 192.168.1.1
The IP of this computer I'm typing on is 192.168.1.115 and subnet is also 255.255.255.0
I just tried to ping from this PC to the DUO ART and timed out.

Now that we are talking privately, there is some history regarding my DUO ART.
It is about 9 months old and I bought it specifically for using it remotely.
The DUO and DUO ART have never been used much BUT the ART has broken down twice.

The first time back in December it was totally dead, and went back to Elad in Italy.
It came back repaired but in February it started having strange faults, the display was showing 2 windows at the same time, which got worse and then the 12v DC outlet for the DUO failed.
It went back to Elad again and since it returned last month I have not used it at all, other than to switch it on to make sure it worked, until now.

The result is that I don't entirely trust the DUO ART to keep working, so if something doesn't go as expected (like this IP problem) I'm never sure if it's something I'm doing wrong or if the ART has another problem.
Hopefully it's my fault as I really want it to work.

Best regards
Tony, EI8JK


On 5/9/2019 at 9:36 AM, "Giovanni Franza" <gfranza@...> wrote:
Hi Tony,
Giovanni here.
If the ping fails there the problem should be the IP setting.
Which address is displayed on DUO ART ( menu Set - 50 - LAN IP ) and which subnet ( Menu Set - 51 - Subnet ) ?
Which is the IP address of your PC ?
Sorry for the silly question,
Giovanni, HB9EIK


Re: Elad Remote problem

Giovanni Franza
 

Hi Tony,
Giovanni here.
If the ping fails there the problem should be the IP setting.
Which address is displayed on DUO ART ( menu Set - 50 - LAN IP ) and which subnet ( Menu Set - 51 - Subnet ) ?
Which is the IP address of your PC ?
Sorry for the silly question,
Giovanni, HB9EIK


Re: Elad Remote problem

Tony EI8JK
 

Hi Vianney
Starting the EladRemote results in the program starting with an on-screen error "Not connected to remote RTX"
That is ./EladRemote, IP and then password although I did try both ways
I tried pinging from the Linux computer and also a Windows computer on same LAN and timed out each time
The DUO ART displays it is connected to the network and Internet with current date and time.
Regards
Tony, EI8JK

On 08/05/2019 21:49, Giovanni Franza wrote:
Hi tony,
did you tried
cd /opt/EladRemote
./EladRemote passwd address_of_the_duo_art
where passwd is the password read on your DUO ART ?
what happens when you make
ping address_of_the_duo_art ?
Regards,
Giovanni, HB9EIK


Re: Xenia 2019

John Hartman
 

Sorry about your father Paul.  I hope hospice is keeping him comfortable.  

See you in 2020

John N5AAA 





Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Jones <support@...>
Date: 5/8/19 9:28 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: EladSDR@groups.io
Subject: [EladSDR] Xenia 2019

Hey All,

 

I was looking forward to meeting some of you at Xenia this year, but sadly I won't be going due to my father being on Hospice care here at home with just a few weeks left to live, but one of my best buddies will be standing in for me, Ed W4NSC, he'll be helping Franco with the setup and during the show....also I think Marc WB9DBD will be on the stand, answering any questions.

 

I’ll be here manning the phone, so if there are questions you have while at the show, and can’t get to talk to anyone if they are busy, you can call me on the sales & support number… 312.320.8160 and I’ll help as much as I can.

 

Also the USA Store wont be taking any orders from 14th through the 21st of May as ALL of the stock will be in Ohio…. 😉

 

Have a Radiolutionary Day!
Paul

--

Paul Jones - Elad USA Sales & Technical Support (USA)

FDM-Duo, Duo-Art, FDM-DUOR,  FDM-S3, FDM-S2, FDM-S2, FDM-SW2, T-Mate

Visit http://www.eladit.com for the full range of Elad Products or USA Sales : https://shop.elad-usa.com/

Email Support Group - https://groups.io/g/EladSDR

Sales Phone: 312.320.8160

Support Email: support@... Sales Email: sales@...
Personal Email: Paul@...
 
 

 

 

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