Valley Forge Cattle Guard


Jonathan Pleasant
 

 I need to give a big thanks to Chris Ford. He helped positively identify what we found cleaning out the old ET Row in Valley Forge today. It’s an original cattle guard! As soon as we saw concrete I had my guys clear it up and Chris confirmed with the 1912 survey documentation. We were even able to pinpoint a long buried drain tile about 80ft back toward Hampton using the survey information. Even if this doesn’t become the main trail I hope they will use it as a short side trail and maybe put up some signage and park benches. It’s a beautiful area.


Dean Smith
 

How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean


Chris Ford
 

Yeah, on the survey maps some of the cattle guards are labeled as "C.G. 0000+00" and some are labeled as "Pit C.G. 0000+00".

Don't know if there were actually 2 different kinds...and if there were, how were they built differently?

I've seen how cattle guards were built on country roads...there was usually some rails in between the concrete so vehicles could drive over them but the cattle couldn't. Everyone knows cattle can't drive.  :)

But what did they put between the concrete on the RR?

Was hoping that Jonathan would find something between those concrete "walls".




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:34:42 -0700, "Dean Smith" <smithfive@...> wrote:
 
How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean


Jonathan Pleasant
 

We measured and it was nearly 9ft between the two concrete piers. There had to be something for the rails to sit on. We didn’t find anything in the middle except for a bunch of bent spikes.




On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:08 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Yeah, on the survey maps some of the cattle guards are labeled as "C.G. 0000+00" and some are labeled as "Pit C.G. 0000+00".

Don't know if there were actually 2 different kinds...and if there were, how were they built differently?

I've seen how cattle guards were built on country roads...there was usually some rails in between the concrete so vehicles could drive over them but the cattle couldn't. Everyone knows cattle can't drive.  :)

But what did they put between the concrete on the RR?

Was hoping that Jonathan would find something between those concrete "walls".




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:34:42 -0700, "Dean Smith" <smithfive@...> wrote:
 
How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean


Chris Ford
 

Was there a concrete bed or floor between the walls or just dirt?



Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 7 May 2021 17:14:16 +0000 (UTC), "Jonathan Pleasant via groups.io" <sigmunddragonslayer@...> wrote:
 
We measured and it was nearly 9ft between the two concrete piers. There had to be something for the rails to sit on. We didn’t find anything in the middle except for a bunch of bent spikes.



 

On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:08 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Yeah, on the survey maps some of the cattle guards are labeled as "C.G. 0000+00" and some are labeled as "Pit C.G. 0000+00".

Don't know if there were actually 2 different kinds...and if there were, how were they built differently?

I've seen how cattle guards were built on country roads...there was usually some rails in between the concrete so vehicles could drive over them but the cattle couldn't. Everyone knows cattle can't drive.  :)

But what did they put between the concrete on the RR?

Was hoping that Jonathan would find something between those concrete "walls".




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:34:42 -0700, "Dean Smith" <smithfive@...> wrote:
 
How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean
 
 


Jonathan Pleasant
 

Chris, 

It was just dirt. It actually surprised me how shallow the ballast was. All the way through there the iron tailings were only about 18” deep before you got back to clay dirt. We dug down about a foot and we’re getting back down to the rough poured footers. I didn’t prove a couple of interesting things. The smooth or formed part of the concrete was about 8 inches high.




On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:20 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Was there a concrete bed or floor between the walls or just dirt?



Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 7 May 2021 17:14:16 +0000 (UTC), "Jonathan Pleasant via groups.io" <sigmunddragonslayer@...> wrote:
 
We measured and it was nearly 9ft between the two concrete piers. There had to be something for the rails to sit on. We didn’t find anything in the middle except for a bunch of bent spikes.



 

On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:08 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Yeah, on the survey maps some of the cattle guards are labeled as "C.G. 0000+00" and some are labeled as "Pit C.G. 0000+00".

Don't know if there were actually 2 different kinds...and if there were, how were they built differently?

I've seen how cattle guards were built on country roads...there was usually some rails in between the concrete so vehicles could drive over them but the cattle couldn't. Everyone knows cattle can't drive.  :)

But what did they put between the concrete on the RR?

Was hoping that Jonathan would find something between those concrete "walls".




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:34:42 -0700, "Dean Smith" <smithfive@...> wrote:
 
How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean
 
 


Jonathan Pleasant
 

Chris I also noticed that the ends of both piers were broken in the same place and in the same shape. We wondered if they had something mounted to them that had been broken off?




On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:28 PM, Jonathan Pleasant via groups.io <sigmunddragonslayer@...> wrote:

Chris, 

It was just dirt. It actually surprised me how shallow the ballast was. All the way through there the iron tailings were only about 18” deep before you got back to clay dirt. We dug down about a foot and we’re getting back down to the rough poured footers. I didn’t prove a couple of interesting things. The smooth or formed part of the concrete was about 8 inches high.




On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:20 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Was there a concrete bed or floor between the walls or just dirt?



Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 7 May 2021 17:14:16 +0000 (UTC), "Jonathan Pleasant via groups.io" <sigmunddragonslayer@...> wrote:
 
We measured and it was nearly 9ft between the two concrete piers. There had to be something for the rails to sit on. We didn’t find anything in the middle except for a bunch of bent spikes.



 

On Friday, May 7, 2021, 1:08 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Yeah, on the survey maps some of the cattle guards are labeled as "C.G. 0000+00" and some are labeled as "Pit C.G. 0000+00".

Don't know if there were actually 2 different kinds...and if there were, how were they built differently?

I've seen how cattle guards were built on country roads...there was usually some rails in between the concrete so vehicles could drive over them but the cattle couldn't. Everyone knows cattle can't drive.  :)

But what did they put between the concrete on the RR?

Was hoping that Jonathan would find something between those concrete "walls".




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:34:42 -0700, "Dean Smith" <smithfive@...> wrote:
 
How absolutely cool!  I plan on modeling a cattle guard one of these days, and it is always so wonderful to be able to tie the model to an actual prototype. Photos are great but finding actual evidence really brings it home.
 
Dean
 
 


Lee Bishop
 

Does anyone know what the milepost would have been there? I'm looking to document the location of the spikes Jonathan discovered in that area.
--
Lee Bishop
Stoney Creek branch of the ET&WNC in On30


Chris Ford
 

Jonathan can confirm this...that cattle guard was at m.p. 66984.

That's at 66,984 feet, about a 2/3 mile past milepost 12. The western end of the Valley Forge bridge was right at MP 12 just for reference.



Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:10:26 -0700, "Lee Bishop" <leebishop1944@...> wrote:
 
Does anyone know what the milepost would have been there? I'm looking to document the location of the spikes Jonathan discovered in that area.
--
Lee Bishop
Stoney Creek branch of the ET&WNC in On30