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Opinions requested on "forced perspective" in the Johnson City yard.


Tom Grabenstein
 

Hello y’all,

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.

Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.

As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.


I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.

I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.

The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.


The Model Mill Company


And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)

So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.



So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.

Thanks.  Dr Tom





Tom Grabenstein




Mike West
 

Have you considered half building with mirror behind?
mw


On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:18 PM, Tom Grabenstein <tomgmd@...> wrote:

Hello y’all,

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.

Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.

As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.

<eadda368db37d48906740c4aba51e558.jpg>
<f0e6d95db51b46792c77919eae066df3.jpg>

I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.

I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.

<clinchdepot1.jpg>
The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.

<model-flour-mill-johnson-city-tenn.jpg>

The Model Mill Company

<schhill.jpg>

And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)

So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.

<fullsizeoutput_1cd7.jpeg>

<fullsizeoutput_1cd9.jpeg>

So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.

Thanks.  Dr Tom





Tom Grabenstein




Tom Grabenstein
 

Hi Mike,

Yes I have considered using small mirrors (like John Allen did on the Gorre and Daphetid) at the end of track where it meets the back drop. Thanks for the input.

Dr Tom

On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:56 PM, Mike West <west9628@...> wrote:

Have you considered half building with mirror behind?
mw


On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:18 PM, Tom Grabenstein <tomgmd@...> wrote:

Hello y’all,

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.

Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.

As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.

<eadda368db37d48906740c4aba51e558.jpg>
<f0e6d95db51b46792c77919eae066df3.jpg>

I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.

I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.

<clinchdepot1.jpg>
The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.

<model-flour-mill-johnson-city-tenn.jpg>

The Model Mill Company

<schhill.jpg>

And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)

So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.

<fullsizeoutput_1cd7.jpeg>

<fullsizeoutput_1cd9.jpeg>

So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.

Thanks.  Dr Tom





Tom Grabenstein





Chris Jessee
 

Perhaps the buildings could be perspective corrected in photoshop to get all the buildings converging correctly. 


tfillion182
 

Dr Tom,

I just tried a test by printing and cutting out your CC&O Depot and folding it along the building corner such that there is about 1 inch depth to your angled “flat”.  Even with this small angle, the building seems to change prespective as you move left to right along the layout.  If you like the way that looks, then maybe add some very thin 3D features such as the entry roof.

Tim Fillion

 

From: ETWNC@groups.io [mailto:ETWNC@groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Grabenstein
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 7:18 PM
To: ETWNC@groups.io
Subject: [ETWNC] Opinions requested on "forced perspective" in the Johnson City yard.

 

Hello y’all,

 

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.

 

Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.

 

As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.

 

 

I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.

 

I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.

 

                                                            The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.

 

 

The Model Mill Company

 

 

And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)

 

So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.

 

 

 

So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.

 

Thanks.  Dr Tom

 

 

 

 

Tom Grabenstein

 

 

 


Chris Ford
 

Dr Tom, what a grand scheme you are going for with this project. This is certainly not something for the faint of heart!  :)

If I may, I might have some advice to lend, but remember, it's just my thoughts and observances!

Coming from an artist and a fellow modeler, although nowhere near your modeling league, I think that once you start combining too many angles and mixing too many perspectives it can be very hard to pull off realistically. Not impossible, but it may take more work to achieve what you're going after than if you were to maybe cut back on how many buildings you have. Sometimes less is more. Let the viewers imagination fill in the "holes".

I think that maybe the Model Mill, while it's a great building and should be on anyone's JCity layout, may be too much to try to combine with your "foreground" buildings...although if it was lightened considerably and maybe reduced in size (to mimic distance) it might work. The unfortunate angle of the photo of the building is going to be tough to work into the rest of the buildings without looking forced. Perhaps a flat of the silos and the part of the brick building with the "Model Mill" sign would suffice?

To blend your foreground buildings your JCity depot photo should have the same contrast (light and dark) that the CC&O building does so that they look like they are basically the same distance from the viewer. That, or the the CC&O building needs to be toned back to match the ET depot. Get with me off list...I may be able to help you eliminate the telephone poles in that photo and maybe give it some more contrast if you decide to go that route. You might even be able to include the part of the building on the right where the old boxcar is parked and maybe park a smaller scale boxcar in its place to get that forced perspective you're looking for.

There may be a way to partially "adjust" the perspective of a photo if it is just "too much" for where it is placed in with other buildings that are a little more "normal" in their perspective.

Also, perhaps a flat of the Hardware store over to the left of the CC&O depot would lend an authenticity to the scene...and you might even be able to find a flat-on photo of it from somewhere, maybe even Google earth.

I highly commend your efforts, and am offering these suggestions and thoughts merely as idea starters!

Keep up the great work Dr Tom!




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 18:17:35 -0600, "Tom Grabenstein" <tomgmd@...> wrote:
 
Hello y’all,
 
I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.
 
Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.
 
As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.
 
 
I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.
 
I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.
 
The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.
 
 
The Model Mill Company
 
 
And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)
 
So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.
 
 
 
So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.
 
Thanks.  Dr Tom
 
 
 
 
Tom Grabenstein
 
 


Tom Grabenstein
 

Wow, thank you Chris Ford, Tim and Chris Jessee for the well thought out responses y’all sent  this way. A lot of good ideas. Fortunately all the buildings are temporary and can be moved or removed. I have a lot of thinking to do to blend back drop in to the foreground railroad yard. You guys have given me many ideas. Also the permanent placement of all structures is many months off as I lay track, 12 narrow gauge turnouts, and one standard gauge turnout to get this busy yard operational. 

Most of my previous modeling  has been backwoods logging outfits.


So I really have no experience with urban model rails. I am looking forward to more advice and counsel as I move this project in to the future.

Thanks again.  Dr Tom
Tom Grabenstein



On Mar 1, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Chris Ford <chris@...> wrote:

Dr Tom, what a grand scheme you are going for with this project. This is certainly not something for the faint of heart!  :)

If I may, I might have some advice to lend, but remember, it's just my thoughts and observances!

Coming from an artist and a fellow modeler, although nowhere near your modeling league, I think that once you start combining too many angles and mixing too many perspectives it can be very hard to pull off realistically. Not impossible, but it may take more work to achieve what you're going after than if you were to maybe cut back on how many buildings you have. Sometimes less is more. Let the viewers imagination fill in the "holes".

I think that maybe the Model Mill, while it's a great building and should be on anyone's JCity layout, may be too much to try to combine with your "foreground" buildings...although if it was lightened considerably and maybe reduced in size (to mimic distance) it might work. The unfortunate angle of the photo of the building is going to be tough to work into the rest of the buildings without looking forced. Perhaps a flat of the silos and the part of the brick building with the "Model Mill" sign would suffice?

To blend your foreground buildings your JCity depot photo should have the same contrast (light and dark) that the CC&O building does so that they look like they are basically the same distance from the viewer. That, or the the CC&O building needs to be toned back to match the ET depot. Get with me off list...I may be able to help you eliminate the telephone poles in that photo and maybe give it some more contrast if you decide to go that route. You might even be able to include the part of the building on the right where the old boxcar is parked and maybe park a smaller scale boxcar in its place to get that forced perspective you're looking for.

There may be a way to partially "adjust" the perspective of a photo if it is just "too much" for where it is placed in with other buildings that are a little more "normal" in their perspective.

Also, perhaps a flat of the Hardware store over to the left of the CC&O depot would lend an authenticity to the scene...and you might even be able to find a flat-on photo of it from somewhere, maybe even Google earth.

I highly commend your efforts, and am offering these suggestions and thoughts merely as idea starters!

Keep up the great work Dr Tom!




Chris

 
------------------------
Chris Ford
President - ET&WNC Railroad Historical Society
www.etwncrrhs.org
chris@...
901-497-0809
------------------------
www.cfordart.com

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 18:17:35 -0600, "Tom Grabenstein" <tomgmd@...> wrote:
 
Hello y’all,
 
I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe and healthy.
 
Tonight, I am requesting opinions from the guys and gals of the ET&WNC historical group. There are many great modelers and historians in this group.
 
As I advance my On30 ET& WNC layout I am in the early construction phase of my rendition of the Johnson City yard. This yard is huge and very interesting as you all know.
 
<eadda368db37d48906740c4aba51e558.jpg><f0e6d95db51b46792c77919eae066df3.jpg>
 
I have 11 and a half feet of pink foam to try and pay a respectable homage to this yard and all it did for the RR and Johnson City.
 
I have determined that in the 1920’s that there were quite a lot of brick structures usually 2-4 stories tall. I have also found colorized photos of structures at the yard.
 
<clinchdepot1.jpg>
The Clinchfield Depot down the tracks from the ET&WNC/Southern Depot.
 
<model-flour-mill-johnson-city-tenn.jpg>
 
The Model Mill Company
 
<schhill.jpg>
 
And Science High School. (My med school roommate went here.)
 
So I have temporarily been arranging cutouts of prints of these pictures at one end of the layout in a type of “forced perspective.” The Science High School goes on the other end of the yard out of town and has not been prepared.
 
<fullsizeoutput_1cd7.jpeg>
 
<fullsizeoutput_1cd9.jpeg>
 
So what do you all think. Am I heading down the right track or is this an exercise in overkill or futility??? I appreciate all input, advice and critiques.
 
Thanks.  Dr Tom
 
 
 
 
Tom Grabenstein