Date   

Re: No.12

johnny graybeal <johnnyg@...>
 

Rick,
Nice idea on the surface. Put yourself in their place. Would you go to
that much trouble, not to mention the danger of doing that on 4-5% grades,
for 50-100 people, while 2-3000 are standing around wondering what is
holding up their train. We are too small potatoes for that much trouble.
Johnny Graybeal

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Blanchard <bdesign@sd.znet.com>
To: Tweetsie@onelist.com <Tweetsie@onelist.com>
Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Tweetsie] No.12


From: Rick Blanchard <bdesign@sd.znet.com>

johnny,

I have some bad news. Since the season opened, No. 12 has had
problems
with flues leaking.
Any point in asking Tweetsie to push #12 around in front of #190 for
almost a double header? Make a little steam, make a little smoke, but
leave it in neutral. :o}

Have a good time everyone!

Cheers,
Rick
(wishing I could be there)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rick Blanchard
rick@urbaneagle.com
San Diego, CA

My East Tennessee and Western North Carolina web site:
http://www.urbaneagle.com/slim/etwnc.html

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Re: No.12

Rick Blanchard <bdesign@...>
 

johnny,

I have some bad news. Since the season opened, No. 12 has had problems
with flues leaking.
Any point in asking Tweetsie to push #12 around in front of #190 for
almost a double header? Make a little steam, make a little smoke, but
leave it in neutral. :o}

Have a good time everyone!

Cheers,
Rick
(wishing I could be there)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rick Blanchard
rick@urbaneagle.com
San Diego, CA

My East Tennessee and Western North Carolina web site:
http://www.urbaneagle.com/slim/etwnc.html


Re: No.12

Michael Paschall <michael@...>
 

Thanks for the update Johnny. Your point about risk to the people is well
taken, but may I point out that a boiler explosion would not do No. 12 any
good either.

-----Original Message-----
From: johnny graybeal <johnnyg@boone.net>
To: tweetsie@onelist.com <tweetsie@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 1:59 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] No.12


From: "johnny graybeal" <johnnyg@boone.net>

Everyone,
I have some bad news. Since the season opened, No. 12 has had problems
with flues leaking. The flues were the one thing that was not redone in
the
last year and a half. As of yesterday (Sat) the official word was that
they
were going to wait until after our weekend to take her off. They had been
able to slow the leaking of four, but seven more were leaking too.
I received a call just a few minutes ago, letting me know that the
situation had become worse, and the engine would be off line by the end of
the day. The work had already been contracted out when I was there
yesterday, with the time required being three weeks.
I want to say that TRR management and shop personnel were trying hard
to
leave the engine on for us. Trying very hard. 12 has performed very well
the last month, and I was looking forward to all of you seeing her back in
steam. Unfortunately that will not be this year.
I wanted the group to know. Too many will come now and be
disappointed,
since it is too late to do any kind of newsletter, except for e-mail.
Spread the word and pass along TRRs apologies.
The alternative is to risk more springing loose going around the track,
which could lead to a boiler explosion. Ken Riddle will back me up on
this.
50-100 of us is not worth risking something deadly to hundreds of people.
We will just have to wait.
Johnny Graybeal
Pres. ET&WNC RR HS


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No.12

Karl & Edwina Kleeman <kleenc@...>
 

Can we replace our ride behind number 12 with a "forum" of sorts in which
several of you experts show pictures and give talks about the ET&WNC. I
would certainly appreciate it. We could do that Friday evening.

On Saturday could we trace the roadbed through the Grandfather mountain
area. I have some very good maps that I got from the book "Grandfather
Community, Its People and Historical Data" by Ted Shook. Maybe we could
even get Ted to assist. The book is in the county library in Boone.

We could team up on some historic research and it would be great fun. The
map shows all homes along the right of way, many of which may still exist.
If we could get some locals to assist, I think we would all enjoy it. I
would be happy to send or fax maps to anyone who wanted to participate.

Karl Kleeman 919-782-1533 kleenc@compuserve.com


No.12

johnny graybeal <johnnyg@...>
 

Everyone,
I have some bad news. Since the season opened, No. 12 has had problems
with flues leaking. The flues were the one thing that was not redone in the
last year and a half. As of yesterday (Sat) the official word was that they
were going to wait until after our weekend to take her off. They had been
able to slow the leaking of four, but seven more were leaking too.
I received a call just a few minutes ago, letting me know that the
situation had become worse, and the engine would be off line by the end of
the day. The work had already been contracted out when I was there
yesterday, with the time required being three weeks.
I want to say that TRR management and shop personnel were trying hard to
leave the engine on for us. Trying very hard. 12 has performed very well
the last month, and I was looking forward to all of you seeing her back in
steam. Unfortunately that will not be this year.
I wanted the group to know. Too many will come now and be disappointed,
since it is too late to do any kind of newsletter, except for e-mail.
Spread the word and pass along TRRs apologies.
The alternative is to risk more springing loose going around the track,
which could lead to a boiler explosion. Ken Riddle will back me up on this.
50-100 of us is not worth risking something deadly to hundreds of people.
We will just have to wait.
Johnny Graybeal
Pres. ET&WNC RR HS


Linville Depot Kit

J. L. Walker <WEBSTERCLASSICMODELS@...>
 

The photo of the completed kit will be on my web page tonight - if it all
works like it is supposed to. How does it look? It is ready to ship. We
will see youall in Boone - and we will bring kits.
Les Walker dba Webster Classic Models


new Carnegie Hotel

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

Hey gang,
I got a tip about a new Carnegie Hotel in JCity the other day and sent it
on to Robbie Jones, a Historian in the Environmental Planning Dept of the
Tennesse Department of Transportation. He found out some more about it
and sent me this note:


chris: I found lots of info. on the new Carnegie Hotel in Johnson City.
Go to the Kingsport Times-News Online page (follow the links in the
yahoo.com newspaper page). Then in their search engine, just type
"Carnegie" or "Carnegie Hotel." I found a half-dozen articles on the new
Carnegie Hotel, which is being constructed adjacent to the new Centre at
Millennium Park (Convention Center) on State of Franklin Boulevard next
to the VA Hospital and across from ETSU. Lots of cool stuff, including
pix of the new Convention Center, but none of the hotel that I could
find. Should be very interesting and I can't wait to get up there and
check it out.


I found it interesting because the newest issue of the Stemwinder (which
is at the printer right now) has a large article about the Carnegie
Addition in JCity and the Carnegie Hotel. Anyway, it may be something to
see if you're going to the convention in June.

Just a tidbit,
Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@mindspring.com

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Re: Gon Plan

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

It's not too late to submit a photo for the book, Curtis, if it's one
that John thinks would add to the chapter. You might contact him and
check.

Regards and see ya in Boone,
Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@mindspring.com

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Gon Plan

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

The May/June Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette features an Edward H. Cass
plan of ET&WNC gondola 188.

BTW, saw a slide last night of ET&WNC 210 taken around 1972 in Elizabethton.
It's in the Southern Railway black/white scheme. Had I known my friend had
that slide, I would have submitted it for publication in John's book.

Memorial Day Greetings,
Curtis


Re: Gazettes for sale

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Michael,

So far, your bid is the best. I will bring them with me should you "win" them.
I'll also bring all of my Stemwinders back to #1 for you to copy. I'll be at
Tweetsie Friday and Saturday, but need to leave after the Saturday banquet. If
you can't get them all copied in that time frame, just take what you need back
home and send them UPS when you're done.

I thought you were in Lincolnton? When did you move to GA?

Jim


Michael Paschall wrote:

From: "Michael Paschall" <michael@bakerstreet.com>

Hi Jim,
My offer for the Gazettes is $45.00 for the lot. If this is the winning
bid and you are going to the ET&WNC convention in Boone, you can save the
postage and bring them to me there.

Previously, we have discussed back issues of the Stemwinder. My
collection starts with Volume 8 Number 1, or the July,August,September 1995
issue. I am desperate to have copies of the earlier issues. If you are
coming to the convention and brought them with you, I would photocopy them
and return them to you before you leave for home. Alternatively, I would be
happy to pay you for your expenses and trouble ($1.50 an issue) if you would
care to copy them and send me the copies. Thanks for all your assistance.

Michael

P.S. My mailing address is:
Michael Paschall
PMB 410
2300 Bethelview Rd, Ste 110
Cumming, GA 30040-9474

My e-mail address is: michael@bakerstreet.com.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim King <jking@ioa.com>
To: Caylor, Bill <Caylor@Bellsouth.net>; ET&WNC HS Email List
<Tweetsie@onelist.com>; HOn3 mail list <HOn3@onelist.com>; Logging email
list <4L@onelist.com>; O Scale Group <oscaletrains@lists.cirr.com>; On3
Group <on3@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 4:07 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] Gazettes for sale

From: Jim King <jking@ioa.com>

Hi all,

I've pulled 15 extra copies from my Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette
collection and the following issues are for sale as a **GROUP**, not
singly.

The best offer received by 5/31 gets the bunch. All will be mailed via
US Postal Service 4th class "book rate" to the winner.

The issues are listed by year and no. of the months covered (May/June 94
would be 1994: 5/6, for example):

84: 9/10
86: 5/6
92: 9/10
93: 3/4, 5/6 (2 copies), 9/10
94: 1/2, 3/4, 5/6
95: 1/2, 5/6, 7/8, 11/12
96: 1/2

Thanks for your help in cleaning out my library!

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works



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Re: Gazettes for sale

Michael Paschall <michael@...>
 

Hi Jim,
My offer for the Gazettes is $45.00 for the lot. If this is the winning
bid and you are going to the ET&WNC convention in Boone, you can save the
postage and bring them to me there.

Previously, we have discussed back issues of the Stemwinder. My
collection starts with Volume 8 Number 1, or the July,August,September 1995
issue. I am desperate to have copies of the earlier issues. If you are
coming to the convention and brought them with you, I would photocopy them
and return them to you before you leave for home. Alternatively, I would be
happy to pay you for your expenses and trouble ($1.50 an issue) if you would
care to copy them and send me the copies. Thanks for all your assistance.

Michael

P.S. My mailing address is:
Michael Paschall
PMB 410
2300 Bethelview Rd, Ste 110
Cumming, GA 30040-9474

My e-mail address is: michael@bakerstreet.com.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim King <jking@ioa.com>
To: Caylor, Bill <Caylor@Bellsouth.net>; ET&WNC HS Email List
<Tweetsie@onelist.com>; HOn3 mail list <HOn3@onelist.com>; Logging email
list <4L@onelist.com>; O Scale Group <oscaletrains@lists.cirr.com>; On3
Group <on3@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 4:07 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] Gazettes for sale


From: Jim King <jking@ioa.com>

Hi all,

I've pulled 15 extra copies from my Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette
collection and the following issues are for sale as a **GROUP**, not
singly.

The best offer received by 5/31 gets the bunch. All will be mailed via
US Postal Service 4th class "book rate" to the winner.

The issues are listed by year and no. of the months covered (May/June 94
would be 1994: 5/6, for example):

84: 9/10
86: 5/6
92: 9/10
93: 3/4, 5/6 (2 copies), 9/10
94: 1/2, 3/4, 5/6
95: 1/2, 5/6, 7/8, 11/12
96: 1/2

Thanks for your help in cleaning out my library!

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works



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Re: Photos of 10 & 14 on the WP&Y

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

I researched this topic in the National Archives several years ago. The
Archives has the US Army Signal Corps photo repository. They have no photos
of the ex-ET&WNC locomotives.

If we are to find definitive photos, they must come from another source.
Hope someone locates one in their collections.

Trains Magazine had a photo of Number 10 undergoing refit in Seattle prior
to shipment to Skagway. Not sure of the month (Johnny help me here), but it
was in early 1943. 10 received front end ladders and other detail changes.
I have also seen a photo of 14 prior to being scrapped in Seattle following
the roundhouse fire also showing the detail changes. Trains had a recent
article on the WP&Y which listed existing locomotives including those used
as rip-rap. I still believe the story of ET&WNC 10 being used as rip-rap as
being apocriphal.

I would love to discover some positive proof one way or the other. Keep
digging.

Curtis


Re: Trains WP&Y Article

Bruce Pryor <bpryor@...>
 

White pass had only one inside frame 4-6-0. Here is a photo of it:

http://narrowmind.railfan.net/early_steam/62_BLW_.JPG

It has different axle spacing than #10 and #14.

I've emailed a friend in Skagway, asking if he can get some photos of
the engines still in the river.

I'll let you know what turns up, but it may take a while, if he will do
it.

Bruce Pryor


Re: Trains WP&Y Article

Gary B Scoggins <Gary.B.Scoggins@...>
 

To add more "I wonder:" to the Malcolm's thoughts...........Fran Coffey has told
me several times that he in fact stood atop of the 10 in the river. (when he
went up there to pick out the 190) By Frank, these dumped engines were the
beginnings of a breakwall. This question would now seem to add a whole lot more
umph to his story than most have given it over the passing years.


Gazettes for sale

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Hi all,

I've pulled 15 extra copies from my Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette
collection and the following issues are for sale as a **GROUP**, not
singly.

The best offer received by 5/31 gets the bunch. All will be mailed via
US Postal Service 4th class "book rate" to the winner.

The issues are listed by year and no. of the months covered (May/June 94
would be 1994: 5/6, for example):

84: 9/10
86: 5/6
92: 9/10
93: 3/4, 5/6 (2 copies), 9/10
94: 1/2, 3/4, 5/6
95: 1/2, 5/6, 7/8, 11/12
96: 1/2

Thanks for your help in cleaning out my library!

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works


Re: Trains WP&Y Article

Bruce Pryor <bpryor@...>
 

Malcolm Marion wrote:

Could this be a picture of our illusive #10 or 14?�� Could extra
airpumps have been added in Seattle.�
For those with good eyes and expertise, take a look and let us hear
your thoughts.

This came up on the White Pass list a month or two ago. There is no
evidence that #10 and/or #14 were scrapped or dumped in Skagway or
Whitehorse. Reliable reports are that they were returned to Seattle for
scrapping. The Army took back to Seattle everything WP&Y didn't buy.

A bunch of the old WP&Y engines and a rotary were dumped in the river at
Skagway. The engine numbers and location are documented. Two have been
pulled out and are now behind the shops.

I know a snowplow and different
running boards were placed on the engines there.
Does anyone have pictures that can be posted showing them in Seattle or
in service on WP&Y? I have photos of them after the fire.

Bruce Pryor
White Pass & Yukon Pictures
http://www.pacifier.com/~bpryor
Narrow Gauge From Off the Beaten Path
http://narrowmind.railfan.net


Trains WP&Y Article

Malcolm Marion <mmarion@...>
 

Hi everyone,

I was flipping through the new July issue of Trains magazine when I came across a letter to the editor on page 10.

The letter is from Ralph Beaumont of Paris, Ont. and highlights his memories of a trip to Skagway in 1979. It seems he was hiking in the river to where locomotives had been buried as riprap. "Someone had been mucking about with a bulldozer, and had uncovered one of the line's narrow gauge 4-6-0's. We were surprised that it wasn't just the hulk of a boiler shell and frame, but the complete locomotive still sporting pilot, smokestack, and even airpumps."

A small photo is included showing the engine down on the left side. I think I see two airpumps and can't tell if the domes are too close together for our prototypes.

Could this be a picture of our illusive #10 or 14? Could extra airpumps have been added in Seattle. I know a snowplow and different running boards were placed on the engines there.

For those with good eyes and expertise, take a look and let us hear your thoughts.

Malcolm

Malcolm Marion
mmarion@cetlink.net


Re: paint jobs

John Waite <jwaite@...
 

Soon, Chris is working on the layout now. The photos are all scanned, the
text is finished, the maps are done. Should be ready for the printer in a
couple of months or so. Will definately be on bookshelves by the Christmas
shopping season....I hope.

John Waite Technology Coordinator
De Soto Public Schools De Soto, MO 63020
Work: 1-314-586-1005 Home: 1-314-586-4573
E-Mail: jwaite@dragon.desoto.k12.mo.us
vdd000@pop.connect.more.net


A word from a new member ....

Karl & Edwina Kleeman <kleenc@...>
 

One can appreciate the money spent on restoring number 12 and still lament
the circus atmosphere in which she now resides. I for one appreciate the
wonderful history of this little railroad and the pride the workers took in
their equipment and their railroad.

I prefer to honor the memory of that little railroad and those people
through reasonably accurate information and restorations. I will enjoy the
new book and the fine work done by the historic society. I still am sorry
that more was not saved and I am sorry that number 12 must be a circus
engine to have value in todays society. I think this says a lot about our
society and our values.

But that is the way it is and I hope number 12 excits and gives pleasure to
lots of kids. If it were me, I would given her a little more dignity and
still would have attracted folks, not to the circus, but to a bit of
history. But I am not presumtious enough the tell them how to run their
business.

I must admit, I am not too excited about going to Tweesie, but in the end I
will probably go just to see and hear her run. But I will still exercise
my right to remember number 12 and this fine little railroad through my
videos and books provided by those who seem to care about this little piece
of history. I like it like that.

Just an old fashion sort of fellow with a tender spot for the good old
ET&WNC who does lament our current $$$$ driven value system. Karl
Kleeman


GOOD NEWS for EBT fans:

Bill Miller
 

To: EBT-LIST@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

Thought some of you not on the EBT list might br interested in this for a
change of pace:
I would like to see Comments about this from list members!

FROM; Bill Miller.............................Chesapeake Beach, MD.


The following article appeared on the front page
of Thursday morning's Altoona Mirror:
____________________________________________

ROCKHILL--A penny wedged against each drive wheel
on a steam locomotive will keep it from rolling, even
if the engineer opened the throttle wide, old railroaders say.

Money also is the obstacle stalling a $46 million project
to restore the narrow-gauge East Broad Top Railroad.

However, on Wednesday the project nudged a little
closer to its goal. Officials announced a $1 million grant
to stabilize a complex of maintenance shops at EBT
headquarters in Rockhill, plus the extension of a state
heritage park to include the 33-mile-long rail line.

"Every journey begins with a single step," said Randy
Cooley, executive director of the Southwestern
Pennsylvania Heritage Preservation Commission.
"But once you begin, you have inertia."

Once a hauler of local coal from Robertsdale north to the
mainline at Mount Union, the EBT now only runs summer
tourists five miles out and back from Rockhill. Still, it's
the only complete shortline railroad left in the nation,
and the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, D.C. calls
it the finest, Cooley said.

The study calls for rehabilitating the tracks and for
refurbishing the shops, locomotives and rolling stock
to allow for excursions along the entire line and a
connection with the mainline--boosting ridership from
12,000 annually to 100,000.

EBT owner Joe Kovalchick, Indiana, PA, obtained the
Transportation Enhancement Act for the 21st Century
money by applying for it himself. He will need to put the
shop complex in a nonprofit trust to receive the public
funding, officials said.

Kovalchick's father, Nick, bought the line in the mid-1950s
to sell for scrap, but he held off the sale because of
depressed prices. He tried a tourist excursion for a local
centennial in 1960. Joe Kovalchick took over in the
mid-1960s and continued the excursions.

"It was part of our family heritage," said Kovalchick, who
said he loses money on the tourist runs.

Stabilizing the deterioration of the shops and making
improvements that might allow tourists to appreciate
some of the operation will probably cost about $2 million,
Cooley said. In the year it will take for the formalities to
acquire the TEA-21 money, agencies hope to get the rest
through matching funds from the state capital budget,
private foundations.

The shop complex includes a roundhouse for engines, a
blacksmith shop, machine shop, boiler shop, a foundry,
a car shop, a sandhouse, a coaling dock, five storage
buildings and a stone farmhouse that predates the
railroad, said Stanley Hall, who manages the operation.

The project will need a consultant to evaluate what
needs done and set priorities.

"If it's a choice between fixing a building falling in and
polishing a machine, it's obvious," said Jane Sheffield,
executive director of the Allegheny Ridge Corp., which
manages the Allegheny Ridge Heritage Park in northern
Somerset, Cambria, Blair, and now Huntingdon counties,
with the extension that includes the EBT.

As the shop stabilization proceeds, it will help build steam
to raise funds for additional work, Cooley predicted.

As the project advances, preservation agencies will
develop a business plan to ensure it can remain solvent,
relying on tourist income, sponsorships and fund raising
that cites the project as a good cause, Cooley said, in
response to a question citing current financial difficulties
of the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum.

"No question that as each (heritage project) gets built,
better business planning is occurring," he said.

As a coal-hauling transport line, the EBT ties in with the
themes of the 7-year-old state heritage park, which is
creating a trails path to link sites that illustrate the area's
industrial heritage of coal mining and transportation, plus
iron and steel making, Sheffield said.

Not all the sites are completed. The sites include the
gateway Coal Heritage Center, the Arcadia Theater and
Miner's Memorial Park in Windber; a gateway heritage
discovery center (on which ground was broken Wednesday),
the downtown flood museum, the Wagner-Ritter House and
the Cambria Iron Company in Johnstown; a former silk mill
in Portage; the gateway Canal Basin Park (going to bid this
summer), the Chimney Rocks Accessible Park (just opened)
and canal worker houses in Hollidaysburg; the gateway
Heritage Discovery Center (to be finished in October),
Heritage Plaza and the Southern Alleghenies Museum of
Art in Altoona.

Allegheny Ridge is working with trail groups to prepare
and open sections of trails to form the backbone of the park.

So far, the Lower Trail from Alexandria to Williamsburg with
an extension to Canoe Creek is the main completed segment.

The Allegheny Park and its new extension into Huntingdon
County are part of a Pennsylvania Mainline Canal Corridor
envisioned by the Allegheny Ridge Corp. and agencies like
the state Department of Conservation & Natural Resources.

(end of article) >>

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