Date   

Re: AN ET&WNC RAMP

Steve & Gail Schulman <buchanan@...>
 

Chris and others-
It's been a few years since I've been in North Carolina but if memory
serves me right, Trade is on the road from Boone to Bristol Closer to
Boone. I would doubt if this is ET territory. Best Regards
Steve Schulman
C Ford wrote:


From: C Ford <cfordart@...>

Subject: AN ET&WNC RAMP
Sent: 4/7/19 1:43 PM
Received: 4/5/99 9:12 PM
From: etwnc@...
To: Chris Ford, cfordart@...

Hey gang, got this in the e-mail today, thought it might mean something
to someone around Elizabethton, anybody know where "Trade" is? Bill if
you could add this address to the list, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again,
oh, and by the way, the book is real close to the start of the put
together, production process (my end of the deal) and I don't mind
telling you, it's a sobering thought :)

See y'all at the convention if you can,
Chris Ford

---------------------------------------------

HELLO, I LIVE NEAR ELIZABETHTON,IN TRADE TO BE EXACT,AND ONE DAY I WAS
GOING THERE AND ACROSS FROM THE SAVE-A-LOT STORE WHERE THE OLD HYDER'S
CARPET CLEANERS IS AND RIGHT BEHIND THAT BUILDING IS A RAILWAY RAMP.IT
IS VERY OLD AND LOOKS LIKE IT MAY FALL PRETTY SOON. IT LOOKS LIKE A
BUILDING A LITTLE BUT, IF YOU LOOK VERY HARD YOU CAN SEE NARROW GAUGE
RAILS STICKING OUT FROM THE END OF THE RAMP.
PLEASE E-MAIL ME BACK IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANY MORE INFO.

P.S. I ALSO KNOW WHERE A TUNNEL IS THAT YOU HAVE NOT GOT PICTURED.
IT'S KINDA' HARD TO GET TO BUT YOU CAN SEE IT OFF OF THE HIGHWAY.
ETWNC@...

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Re: AN ET&WNC RAMP

Fred Waskiewicz <wask@...>
 

Could the ramp be an artifact of one of the n.g. logging lines in the
region? Perhaps removed from Mountain City or Shady Valley?

Concerning the tunnel he mentions, I had heard of a tunnel on the upper
reaches of the Watauga River when I lived in Elizabethton but (sigh!) never
investigated. Logging lines don't normally build tunnels and I know of no RR
activity along that part of the Watauga other than Whiting, which didn't
have a tunnel on their line. Could it be an old highway tunnel?

--- Fred


Re: AN ET&WNC RAMP

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

Hey y'all,
I believe he is talking about tunnel 1 and being able to see it from the
highway during the winter.

As to the ramp, I think maybe he is referring to the coal ramp (?) on the
west side of Elizabethton behind a string of businesses, before you get
into the old downtown area. I got the feeling from his letter that he was
not talking about a ramp that he had seen outside of town toward Trade,
but one he had seen during a trip into Eliz.

If he gets on the group here, maybe he can enlighten us.

It's late.

I'm tired.

G'nite Johnboy :)

Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@...

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Re: AN ET&WNC RAMP

Fred Waskiewicz <wask@...>
 

From: C Ford <cfordart@...>

Hey y'all,
I believe he is talking about tunnel 1 [snip]

As to the ramp, I think maybe he is referring to the coal ramp (?) on the
west side of Elizabethton behind a string of businesses, [snip]
Silly me! :-)

--- Fred


Re: AN ET&WNC RAMP

fwest@...
 

I agree with Johnny. I have seen a ramp or two along the ET and Ive seen
the one behind the shopping ctr,,but it is not NG; only std gauge, but
perhaps with NG rail, 55 lb rail, maybe.mw


ADMIN: List behaviour

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

Please keep this message for later review.

At the urging of several members, it is time again to post a message on
list behaviours:

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Back to railroading....Bob


Temporarily off list

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Hi gang,

I'll be away on business from 4/18 thru 4/24 and unable to get/send
emails. Therefore, so I'm not inundated with 600+ messages to download
when I return, I'm discontinuing receipt of mail until 4/25. If you
need to contact me, do so off list, knowing that I can't respond until I
return.

BTW, my On3 ET&WNC 38' flat started shipping this week but my business
trip will postpone filling all orders until I return. I expect to have
all orders filled within 2 weeks after my return. I will also send
press releases to 7 magazines including a color photo ... hopefully, the
editors will print the pic and bring On3 to more potential/current
modelers.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works


Mail problems

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

Some ISPs had mail problems last night (mine included). From about 3pm to
8:30 pm central time, I received no messages - and ones I know were sent
(mainly because I sent them from work to my address) have not shown up yet.

So, If I haven't responded, please be patient - I will go through the
archives and see if anything shows up - feel free to send me a note
directly if there are any admin needs to be taken care of. Keep in mind
that the archives may not be available for that period for a little bit.

Bob


Re: Possible ET ten wheelers

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

Jim, I have a suggestion - gather up the information needed to demonstrate
the closeness the ET ten-wheelers have to other ("more famous") ten
wheelers (RGS 20, F&CC, Sp, etc.) - then show Chiver's that with a little
modification on his part (a different flat etching of a cab for instance is
not all that much work - and typically there is room for it on the sheet -
the South Park Finescale Msaon Bogies are like this) - he can produce
models that have demonstrated appeal and a much better chance at a longer
run. If you look at issues of Garden Railroad and NG&SLG you should find
articles in converting the Bachman "G" scale 4-6-0 to various roads - you
can use that as a basis.

Bob

At 11:14 PM 4/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
From: Jim King <jking@...>

Hi gang,

I've already mentioned to the list that I've been talking with Roger
Chivers of Chiver's Finelines in England about producing HOn3 and On3
versions for the ten wheelers. Roger was, and still is, very reluctant
to produce **ANY** US prototypes because of the general impression that
US modelers don't feel comfortable assembling British-style kits (split
axles, quarter your own drivers, 1-piece gearboxes, white metal boilers
and tender tanks, etc.). Many members of the HOn3 mail list have
responded to his concern by voicing their desire for a D&RGW C-19 in
HOn3. There are no brass importers interested in making this model
because there's not enough market (sound familiar?). Besides, the cost
would be prohibitive for most potential customers (again, sound
familiar?).


Possible ET ten wheelers

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Hi gang,

Here's the latest in the continuing saga of the ET 4-6-0 models in
HOn3. I've been told by reputable sources (dealers) that Key has
dropped the ET engines from reservation list. I don't have proof of
this, but I'm not surprised if it's so. I think only about a half of
the required 150 reservations were ever made and it's been 2 to 3 years
since the initial request was made. If I'm wrong, please set me
straight. Otherwise, let's consider the other option that I've been
working on.

I've already mentioned to the list that I've been talking with Roger
Chivers of Chiver's Finelines in England about producing HOn3 and On3
versions for the ten wheelers. Roger was, and still is, very reluctant
to produce **ANY** US prototypes because of the general impression that
US modelers don't feel comfortable assembling British-style kits (split
axles, quarter your own drivers, 1-piece gearboxes, white metal boilers
and tender tanks, etc.). Many members of the HOn3 mail list have
responded to his concern by voicing their desire for a D&RGW C-19 in
HOn3. There are no brass importers interested in making this model
because there's not enough market (sound familiar?). Besides, the cost
would be prohibitive for most potential customers (again, sound
familiar?).

The response from the members has been overwhelming, enough for Roger to
seriously consider making this kit. The really neat thing about this
project, other than the fact that SOMEONE really wants to do, is the
$240 target retail price and the fact he'll be able to offer the kit 6
months after he starts development (which I think has begun).

Not being one to sit idle, I immediately jumped on the bandwagon. Roger
stated that he wants to see how the C-19 sells before he commits to
another US prototype, especially one with greatly reduced "apparent"
market. Not speaking for Roger, I believe he'll come around to our way
of thinking and produce the kit in brass, pewter and other materials.
If/when he does, my guess is that it'll retail around $300 because fewer
would be sold. That's a bargain, considering the brass alternative. He
has a web page so you can see some of his HOn30 models, but I don't have
the address ... contact someone on the HOn3 mailing list for it.

What's my part in this? Nothing. Except as an instigator in keeping
his interests going. I see no value in just buying frame and driver
parts from him then spending my scarce hobby time making the rest of the
kit, when he can do it all cheaper and faster than I can.

I have 2 suggestions for the ET Historical Society:

1. The first is to actively collect as many interested modelers as
possible to show Roger the YOU will support his production of the
4-6-0s. If he can get 50 reservations, assuming $300 retail for the
kit, I believe he'd add it to his list. If you want to send your emails
to me and I'll pass them on to Roger, that's OK with me. Let's have a
cutoff date for interested customers of 5/20. The reservations will be
totaled and emailed to Roger soon after.

2. I recommend that the Society, if able, purchase additional kits to
sell to the "public". It may provide a means to generate income, spread
the word about the group and promote the hobby. I don't know what
discount structure, if any, will be offered by Roger, so this idea may
not be possible. Just think about it.

As for now, the fires are glowing on this engine. We've had 3 false
starts, all dealing with brass importers. Now, let's try a reputable
source that has a dedicated following in England and who wants to expand
to the US. If we help him to be successful, maybe he'll produce other
ET engines for us!

Regards,

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC


Re: Possible ET ten wheelers

"Jerry A. Shepardson" <j.shepardson@...
 

Jim King wrote:

I have 2 suggestions for the ET Historical Society:

1. The first is to actively collect as many interested modelers as
possible to show Roger the YOU will support his production of the
4-6-0s. If he can get 50 reservations, assuming $300 retail for the
kit, I believe he'd add it to his list. If you want to send your emails
to me and I'll pass them on to Roger, that's OK with me. Let's have a
cutoff date for interested customers of 5/20. The reservations will be
totaled and emailed to Roger soon after.
I will commit to one kit now. I like the idea of the HS having
additional kits, if this is possible. If I am able to get one to run,
I'd spring for a second kit.

The death of the Key project isn't much of a surprise given the length
of time. If the latest Key prices are any indication, I'm relieved I
won't need a second mortgage to finance the two I had reserved.


--
Jerry A. Shepardson

Eat Taters and Wear No Clothes!


Re: Possible ET ten wheelers

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

Once again Jim, I'll put my wallet forward. If he produces the 10-14
series, I'll take 4. If he does a number 9, I'll take one also. There's 4
(5) to get the ball rolling.

Sooner or later we will prevail.

Curtis


new ten-wheelers

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

Add me to the list for at least 2 engines if Key ain't gonna make 'em. I
-would- like to know officially if and when the Key project is dead so I
can approach my local curmudgeoun (hobby dealer) about getting my down
payment back. Would anyone who gets any official word let us know? Is
Marty McGirk still the "official" liason 'tween us and Key?

Too many questions for one night....:) gotta get back workin' on the book.

Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@...

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Re: Possible ET ten wheelers

johnny graybeal
 

Just one question? Is the $300 price being bandied about refer to a
complete kit or just the mechanism? That might make a difference to some
reservists.
Johnny Graybeal

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim King <jking@...>
To: ET&WNC HS Email List <Tweetsie@...>
Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] Possible ET ten wheelers


From: Jim King <jking@...>

Hi gang,

Here's the latest in the continuing saga of the ET 4-6-0 models in
HOn3. I've been told by reputable sources (dealers) that Key has
dropped the ET engines from reservation list. I don't have proof of
this, but I'm not surprised if it's so. I think only about a half of
the required 150 reservations were ever made and it's been 2 to 3 years
since the initial request was made. If I'm wrong, please set me
straight. Otherwise, let's consider the other option that I've been
working on.

I've already mentioned to the list that I've been talking with Roger
Chivers of Chiver's Finelines in England about producing HOn3 and On3
versions for the ten wheelers. Roger was, and still is, very reluctant
to produce **ANY** US prototypes because of the general impression that
US modelers don't feel comfortable assembling British-style kits (split
axles, quarter your own drivers, 1-piece gearboxes, white metal boilers
and tender tanks, etc.). Many members of the HOn3 mail list have
responded to his concern by voicing their desire for a D&RGW C-19 in
HOn3. There are no brass importers interested in making this model
because there's not enough market (sound familiar?). Besides, the cost
would be prohibitive for most potential customers (again, sound
familiar?).

The response from the members has been overwhelming, enough for Roger to
seriously consider making this kit. The really neat thing about this
project, other than the fact that SOMEONE really wants to do, is the
$240 target retail price and the fact he'll be able to offer the kit 6
months after he starts development (which I think has begun).

Not being one to sit idle, I immediately jumped on the bandwagon. Roger
stated that he wants to see how the C-19 sells before he commits to
another US prototype, especially one with greatly reduced "apparent"
market. Not speaking for Roger, I believe he'll come around to our way
of thinking and produce the kit in brass, pewter and other materials.
If/when he does, my guess is that it'll retail around $300 because fewer
would be sold. That's a bargain, considering the brass alternative. He
has a web page so you can see some of his HOn30 models, but I don't have
the address ... contact someone on the HOn3 mailing list for it.

What's my part in this? Nothing. Except as an instigator in keeping
his interests going. I see no value in just buying frame and driver
parts from him then spending my scarce hobby time making the rest of the
kit, when he can do it all cheaper and faster than I can.

I have 2 suggestions for the ET Historical Society:

1. The first is to actively collect as many interested modelers as
possible to show Roger the YOU will support his production of the
4-6-0s. If he can get 50 reservations, assuming $300 retail for the
kit, I believe he'd add it to his list. If you want to send your emails
to me and I'll pass them on to Roger, that's OK with me. Let's have a
cutoff date for interested customers of 5/20. The reservations will be
totaled and emailed to Roger soon after.

2. I recommend that the Society, if able, purchase additional kits to
sell to the "public". It may provide a means to generate income, spread
the word about the group and promote the hobby. I don't know what
discount structure, if any, will be offered by Roger, so this idea may
not be possible. Just think about it.

As for now, the fires are glowing on this engine. We've had 3 false
starts, all dealing with brass importers. Now, let's try a reputable
source that has a dedicated following in England and who wants to expand
to the US. If we help him to be successful, maybe he'll produce other
ET engines for us!

Regards,

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC



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Possible ET ten wheelers

"Jerry A. Shepardson" <j.shepardson@...
 

I'd like to thank Jim for his relentless pursuit in trying to get
someone, anyone, to produce a model of these engines. After so many
false starts, I agree that none of us will live to see a brass model.
(Either that, or as soon as we all get our kits from the UK, Key will
announce the project is a go!! ;-)

If this all works out, I hope one of you experts will put one of these
together and then write an article telling those of us who are craftsman
impaired how to to assemble the thing! Then when I get the first one
complete and see how easy it was, I'll order a second one from the
historical society!

--
Jerry A. Shepardson

Eat Taters and Wear No Clothes


Re: Possible ET ten wheelers

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Johnny,

I believe I stated somewhere in all of my messages that we're talking about
COMPLETE KITS (mechanism w/ can motor and everything else) for $300. I'm
sure there will be some grumbling from a few folks about having to assemble
kits or not being brass models, but frankly, I'm convinced that NONE of us
will live long enough to see imported brass.

As for the construction methods used in these kits, it's only a little more
difficult than putting together an MDC 2-8-0. There are no injection molded
parts (as far as I know) and the cab (at least) has be assembled from etched
brass sheet. The tender is supposed to be spun cast white metal ... I doubt
it's solid, though ... probably just flat plates that are put together as a
box.

If the fear of having to put a kit together is enough to keep someone from
buying a kit, then maybe I can do some research to locate other modelers
willing to build them. If the "rule of thumb" for building On3 Shays from
PSC kits applies, the assembler will charge whatever you paid for the kit in
addition to the kit price ($300 kit becomes $600 to build it, painting is
extra ... maybe another $100-125). These kits are designed for assembly by
moderately-experienced modelers, not shake-the-box kitters. They are truly
craftsman kits, but when you're done, they look and RUN great.

Jim


johnny graybeal wrote:

From: "johnny graybeal" <johnnyg@...>

Just one question? Is the $300 price being bandied about refer to a
complete kit or just the mechanism? That might make a difference to some
reservists.
Johnny Graybeal
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim King <jking@...>
To: ET&WNC HS Email List <Tweetsie@...>
Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] Possible ET ten wheelers

From: Jim King <jking@...>

Hi gang,

Here's the latest in the continuing saga of the ET 4-6-0 models in
HOn3. I've been told by reputable sources (dealers) that Key has
dropped the ET engines from reservation list. I don't have proof of
this, but I'm not surprised if it's so. I think only about a half of
the required 150 reservations were ever made and it's been 2 to 3 years
since the initial request was made. If I'm wrong, please set me
straight. Otherwise, let's consider the other option that I've been
working on.

I've already mentioned to the list that I've been talking with Roger
Chivers of Chiver's Finelines in England about producing HOn3 and On3
versions for the ten wheelers. Roger was, and still is, very reluctant
to produce **ANY** US prototypes because of the general impression that
US modelers don't feel comfortable assembling British-style kits (split
axles, quarter your own drivers, 1-piece gearboxes, white metal boilers
and tender tanks, etc.). Many members of the HOn3 mail list have
responded to his concern by voicing their desire for a D&RGW C-19 in
HOn3. There are no brass importers interested in making this model
because there's not enough market (sound familiar?). Besides, the cost
would be prohibitive for most potential customers (again, sound
familiar?).

The response from the members has been overwhelming, enough for Roger to
seriously consider making this kit. The really neat thing about this
project, other than the fact that SOMEONE really wants to do, is the
$240 target retail price and the fact he'll be able to offer the kit 6
months after he starts development (which I think has begun).

Not being one to sit idle, I immediately jumped on the bandwagon. Roger
stated that he wants to see how the C-19 sells before he commits to
another US prototype, especially one with greatly reduced "apparent"
market. Not speaking for Roger, I believe he'll come around to our way
of thinking and produce the kit in brass, pewter and other materials.
If/when he does, my guess is that it'll retail around $300 because fewer
would be sold. That's a bargain, considering the brass alternative. He
has a web page so you can see some of his HOn30 models, but I don't have
the address ... contact someone on the HOn3 mailing list for it.

What's my part in this? Nothing. Except as an instigator in keeping
his interests going. I see no value in just buying frame and driver
parts from him then spending my scarce hobby time making the rest of the
kit, when he can do it all cheaper and faster than I can.

I have 2 suggestions for the ET Historical Society:

1. The first is to actively collect as many interested modelers as
possible to show Roger the YOU will support his production of the
4-6-0s. If he can get 50 reservations, assuming $300 retail for the
kit, I believe he'd add it to his list. If you want to send your emails
to me and I'll pass them on to Roger, that's OK with me. Let's have a
cutoff date for interested customers of 5/20. The reservations will be
totaled and emailed to Roger soon after.

2. I recommend that the Society, if able, purchase additional kits to
sell to the "public". It may provide a means to generate income, spread
the word about the group and promote the hobby. I don't know what
discount structure, if any, will be offered by Roger, so this idea may
not be possible. Just think about it.

As for now, the fires are glowing on this engine. We've had 3 false
starts, all dealing with brass importers. Now, let's try a reputable
source that has a dedicated following in England and who wants to expand
to the US. If we help him to be successful, maybe he'll produce other
ET engines for us!

Regards,

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC



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[Fwd: [HOn3]: Proposed C19 kit]

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Potential HOn3 ET 4-6-0 kit buyers:

I'm forwarding the first of two messages I've received from Roger
Chivers concerning his first US prototype HOn3 kit ... the D&RGW C-19
2-8-0. Please note there is no GUARANTEE he will be making the ET
engine ... the success of the more popular Colorado model will either
encourage or kill his interests in "our" engine.

I'm sending these messages out to everyone interested in buying 1 or
more of Roger's kits because he describes IN DETAIL just how the kit is
built. If you have problems working in white metal, forming brass and
screwing together trucks, underframes, etc., then I suggest you find
someone who can build one for your or just don't get one. Having said
that, keep in mind that, if the model is produced, there is no guarantee
just how long they'll be available for sale. While Roger plans on
keeping his C-19 in stock, the ET engine MIGHT become a limited run.
For $300 retail (or whatever the final price is), I recommend buying as
many as you think you'll need, get them in your hands, then worry about
building them later. I now model in On3, but I plan on getting one just
'cause its Tweetie!

Happy reading! It's a very educational set of messages.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC


[Fwd: [HOn3]: C19 kit]

Jim King <jking@...>
 

To all ET HOn3 modelers interested in the 4-6-0 kit:

Message #2 from Roger Chivers is attached.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC


New ET&WNC HOn3 kits

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Hi all,

For those of you on both email lists, I apologize for "double sending",
but at least you're guaranteed of getting this message.

Next week I will begin making patterns for the ET&WNC and Linville River
boxcars in HOn3. That's right ... HO! Although my primary interests
are in O and On3, I still plan on making HOn3 kits for the ET followers,
thanks to your support on the first 2 kits I've produced.

I may have some of the patterns ready to show at the convention on
6/18-19. I will be leaving for home after the convention banquet, so if
you want to place reservations for these kits, let me know now or then.
I will have some of the new On3 38' ET flat kits for sale and a few of
the current HOn3 kits, too, on Friday/Saturday nights.

At this time, I plan on offering the kits with Grandt trucks, Kadee #714
and ALPS laser printed decals for around $38 per kit. Those of you who
are sticklers for authenticity, David Hoffman's brass trucks are exact
for the various car options. I don't plan on offering his trucks thru
my company; just contact David directly and order my kits less trucks.

What I need from readers of this message is an idea of how many I should
produce in the first run. How many do you want? Please respond to me
off-list, indicating your desired order quantity. Your options are (all
are HOn3):

8006 ET&WNC 32' car length, w/ trucks, couplers & decals ... $38 (?)
8007 same as 8006, less trucks
8008 same as 8006, less t/c/d
8009 ET&WNC 37' car length, w/ t/c/d ... $38 (?)
8010 same as 8009, less trucks
8011 same as 8009, less t/c/d
8012 Linville River 37' car length, w/ t/c/d ... $38 (?)
8013 same as 8012, less trucks
8014 same as 8012, less t/c/d

These other ET kits are also still available:

8000 25-ton hopper w/ trucks, couplers & decals ... $38
8001 same as 4800, less trucks
8002 same as 4800, less trucks, couplers & decals
8003 32' flat w/ trucks, couplers & decals ... $33
8004 same as 4803, less trucks
8005 same as 4803, less trucks, couplers & decals

These are in On3:

4000 38' flat w/ trucks, couplers & decals (On3) ... $64
4001 same as 4000, less decals ... $59
4002 same as 4000, less t/c/d ... $49

Thanks for your patronage.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works


New ET&WNC HOn3 kits

J. L. Walker <WEBSTERCLASSICMODELS@...>
 

Jim, I'll fo for one 8007 and one 8010 for the moment.
Les Walker.