Date   

Progress on ET loco

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Hi all,

Just wanted to let everyone know the preliminary info I've received from
a British loco kit supplier regarding "our" ten wheelers in HO and O.

At this time, my source has tentatively agreed to provide a photoetched
brass frame, drivers on axles, and valve gear that may/may not require
assembly. Gearbox and can motor will be discussed later. His minimum
requirement is 50 units. I will take his parts and make the rest of the
parts using white metal, brass and urethane materials. At this time,
the engines will only be available in kit form but some may be
contracted out to other sources I have if you want them built and
painted. I don't have the time to assemble and paint any of them, but
if there is enough interest in having RTR engines, I'll find a source.

We do not have pricing at this time but I expect it to be in the upper
$400s for a complete kit. It's also too early to discuss delivery the
2000 convention is doable.

Here's what I need from the group for this to continue:

1. Baldwin erection drawings showing all necessary details to built the
frame, boiler, cab and tender.
2. Lots of photos showing the various eras you want modeled.
3. I need EVERYONE to get in touch with me somehow telling me EXACTLY
what version/era you want, how many you'd buy in kit form and built up,
and what scale you want (HOn3 or On3).

We cannot continue this project without a more definitive amount of
"sales". I don't want to import 50 units and get stuck with 30, so
please don't tell me you'll take 4 when you really mean 1!

I'm very encouraged by the response from this British manufacturer. His
track record speaks for itself in the UK and Australia. Assuming this
project goes thru, it will be the first US prototype produced using the
proposed combination of manufacturing methods. Also, by having the
majority of parts cast in urethane and white metal, this project has the
greatest potential for completion since the brass importers were
contacted many years ago.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress. In the meantime, please let me
know your thoughts, intentions and comments concerning this subject.

Thanks,

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC


Re: Progress on ET loco

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

Very encouraging. Looks like we took a (baby) step forward. Thanks.

Some concerns I have:

- would like to see the mechanism (valve gear and side rods) assembled.
This will be the weak spot in getting these engines to run smootly, and not
all of us are valve gear craftsmen.

- since there are minor detail differences between locomotives, can we parts
for different versions? (Both pilot styles, cutoff valves, headlights
tender details etc.)

- would like to see domes, cab, and other detail parts separate. It will
look better and make multicolor painting more easy. If you produce RTR
engines, please allow for disassembly of detail parts to facilitate
painting.

- please a pilot designed to accept a front working coupler. I don't have a
preference on coupler height (NG or Std G), and I would be astounded to see
a working HO scale 3 way coupler.

- can we get decals/transfers included?

- enought weight for good traction.

- provisions for command control

As far as plans, guess Johnny Graybeal and/or John Waite would be the best
source. Bet Tweetsie has the plans, but getting them to release them may
take some smoozing.

BTW, I placed reservations for 4 brass 4-6-0s (and have saved enough to pay
for them). If these fill the bill, I'll go for 4. If you include
provisions for a number 9, maybe 5. I don't want any if they're lemons, but
I trust you'll QC them. I'll even volunteer to assemble a test model to
prove that any idiot can do it.

Keep up the good work,
Curtis

Keep thinking: this year THE book, next year the ENGINES.


Re: Progress on ET loco

Ebteng18@...
 

Hello Jim King:

I William T Miller would like to purchase when available One (1) On3 kit
ET&WNC 4-6-0 #12 with pre 1940's style equipment. This assumes that you
will bring out rolling stock to go with the locomotive. I would order more
but paying for it if it should come in sooner than later could be a problem.
Thanks and keep me posted on progress.....................Bill Miller

P.S. Next time you see Don Steen say Hello for me!


Re: Progress on ET loco

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

Hey Gang,
This engine/kit sounds good, especially the price. My big questions would
be...I reserved and put a down payment on 3 brass engines from Key. I
can't drop that order unless they don't make them. Will Key actually
produce the brass they are trying to get our orders on, and (the big
quandry) do I commit to the engine/kits knowing that Key MIGHT actually
come through on the project. I really prefer the heft and quality of the
brass imports, BUT at this point, I'd almost rather go with the kits
because they seem to be of a good quality and a higher probability of
actually being produced.

So, the ones of y'all who have reserved 2 to 4 brass Key locos, what are
YOU going to do? Should we tell Key to forget the project and just let it
die, or do we wait and see and maybe end up with 8 locos :)

Just posing some questions here. Anybody with some good ideas?

Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@...

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Re: Progress on ET loco

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

I looked at it this way, Chris:

- This is the third time a brass importer took reservations on ET&WNC
engines.
- The first two fizzled, as we all know.
- Key put out a reservation sheet over a year ago.
- They still have yet to advertise as they do for models they know they'll
produce, and have yet to receive the minimum 150 for a production run.
- The price of brass continues to climb faster than inflation did 20 years
ago, so if let's say Key does produce them around 2001 or 2002, they'll
probably retail for $1200.-$1500. each.
- If we keep waiting, we'll all die waiting.

- Therefore, go for it Jim. I really don't think I'll have to worry about
brass just now. From the track record, we've nothing to lose, not even our
deposits.

Anybody agree?

Curtis


Re: Progress on ET loco

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Curtis, Chris, Larry, et al:

I don't want to start a feud amongst us! I understand about already shelling
out $$$ for the brass deposit, but frankly, Curtis is right ... I really don't
think that Key will produce the engine, at least not within the next 2-3
years. And yes, by then the $995 current price tag could easily be $1200. Not
only does that have negative affects on trying to get the rest of the needed
reservations, but those that have already plunked down a deposit may ask for it
back because they can't come up with the balance.

I've never reserved one of the engines, even when I was modeling in HO. I
can't justify nearly a grand for an HO engine, no matter how pretty it looks.
Even at dealer discount, I won't buy one. I just bought an On3 Precision Scale
NCNG 2-8-0 #9 for less than the current estimated ET HO engines!

I believe there may be only 1 or 2 options left in making this engine: the one
I've proposed or try to find a mass-production manufacturer, like MDC, to make
one. The ONLY way I foresee MDC even getting slightly interested in this
project is if they can sell 90% of their run to Colorado and California ng
modelers, since the engine would have to look like RGS or SP. I have a contact
at MDC if you want me to pursue this avenue, but I don't have much hope for
it. And, besides, they'll produce an engine that still needs a lot of
modification to match the ET engines, so what's the point?

A point about reservations. I may need some $$$ to guarantee a 50-piece run
from Chivers Finelines, my British source, depending on what he wants for his
share of the project. I don't expect it to be more than $75-100 deposit, but
it's a possibility. I'll do everything I can to not require a deposit, but
it's still a possibility. The difference between my deposit and Key's is that
I will be making the engine, not just planning on it!

I think it's premature to tell Key to stop the process. I haven't gotten far
enough along with Roger Chivers to know for sure that he can produce the frame,
drivers and valve gear economically. I should know within a month. In the
meantime, someone please mail me some Baldwin drawings so I copy them for
Roger's evaluation. He may already have appropriate drivers .. if so, we're
off and running!

Keep the dialog going among us ... we need to discuss all pros and cons to this
new option for a ten-wheeler.

Jim


Re: Progress on ET loco

"Jerry A. Shepardson" <j.shepardson@...
 

This is a very exciting project and I think Jim deserves a BIG pat on
the back for locating an alternative to brass. I don't want to rain on
the parade, but...

I share the same concerns as Chris. I've reserved two of the Key models.
I don't want to commit to Jim for two kits and then also end up with two
Keys. I'm only interested in a #11 and #12 since my layout is set in
1952. I'm already taking artistic license to have the narrow gauge
running on my layout.

My other concern is the kit itself. The thought of assembling valve
gear is scary! If the running gear is assembled, then I would have no
problem, but I'm just not sure my skills are up to this and $400 is a
bit steep for me to find out they are not! I've seen too many (and have
owned a few) poor running steamers.

Jerry A. Shepardson

The Southern Serves the South


Re: Progress on ET loco

larry smith <wooddale@...>
 

Jim

Isn't it interesting that the price of brass keeps going up when their cost to
produce has gone down given the Asian economy. I understand a lot of brass is
being donw in China now and we all know how low the costs to produce are there.
Just a thought.

Larry Smith

Jim King wrote:

From: Jim King <jking@...>

Curtis, Chris, Larry, et al:

I don't want to start a feud amongst us! I understand about already shelling
out $$$ for the brass deposit, but frankly, Curtis is right ... I really don't
think that Key will produce the engine, at least not within the next 2-3
years. And yes, by then the $995 current price tag could easily be $1200. Not
only does that have negative affects on trying to get the rest of the needed
reservations, but those that have already plunked down a deposit may ask for it
back because they can't come up with the balance.

I've never reserved one of the engines, even when I was modeling in HO. I
can't justify nearly a grand for an HO engine, no matter how pretty it looks.
Even at dealer discount, I won't buy one. I just bought an On3 Precision Scale
NCNG 2-8-0 #9 for less than the current estimated ET HO engines!

I believe there may be only 1 or 2 options left in making this engine: the one
I've proposed or try to find a mass-production manufacturer, like MDC, to make
one. The ONLY way I foresee MDC even getting slightly interested in this
project is if they can sell 90% of their run to Colorado and California ng
modelers, since the engine would have to look like RGS or SP. I have a contact
at MDC if you want me to pursue this avenue, but I don't have much hope for
it. And, besides, they'll produce an engine that still needs a lot of
modification to match the ET engines, so what's the point?

A point about reservations. I may need some $$$ to guarantee a 50-piece run
from Chivers Finelines, my British source, depending on what he wants for his
share of the project. I don't expect it to be more than $75-100 deposit, but
it's a possibility. I'll do everything I can to not require a deposit, but
it's still a possibility. The difference between my deposit and Key's is that
I will be making the engine, not just planning on it!

I think it's premature to tell Key to stop the process. I haven't gotten far
enough along with Roger Chivers to know for sure that he can produce the frame,
drivers and valve gear economically. I should know within a month. In the
meantime, someone please mail me some Baldwin drawings so I copy them for
Roger's evaluation. He may already have appropriate drivers .. if so, we're
off and running!

Keep the dialog going among us ... we need to discuss all pros and cons to this
new option for a ten-wheeler.

Jim

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Re: Progress on ET loco

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Larry,

That's why the Bachmann On30 set is so cheap! Good quality for the money and a great
starting place for On3 conversion, but like most everything else, it has a "made in
China" tag.

JK


Re: Progress on ET loco

Sergent, Frank <Frank_Sergent@...>
 

Jim,

Mark me down for a solid one mid 1920's ten-wheeler in HO scale initially.
I'll likely buy more later as my budget permits.

Curtis Brookshire had some great suggestions. However, the three-way coupler
in particular is peculiarity that almost screams the fact that this is a
Tweetsie engine and it's a detail I'd hate to see omitted. Also, the coupler
will be a difficult detail for a kit builder to add unless an appropriate
casting is included in the kit. I believe that the front prototype coupler
(three way and otherwise) was rigidly mounted to the pilot beam and didn't
include a "pocket" of any kind. The box included with a Kadee type coupler
would have to fit between the frame side members below the smokebox and
require that area to include some provision for mounting the box. I think
that area is open on the prototype and you can actually see through the
frame to the lead truck. Perhaps this explains the purpose of the handrail
across the pilot beam (to keep someone from failing in?). I'll attempt to
verify this later with photos. Also, there is more to making a Kadee coupler
work as a front pilot coupler than just getting shoehorned in. The "air
hose" on the mating equipment couplers is bound to interfere with the pilot
unless you extend the coupler waaaay out - which makes the thing even
uglier. The other option is to forget about using uncoupling magnets and
remove the "air hoses" from any equipment you might want to couple to the
front of the engine. The point is that any automatic coupler in HO scale
(the Kadee HOn3 coupler in particular) is bound to be an eyesore. I'd at
least like to have an accurate three way coupler casting included with the
kit even if the "standard" way to build it is with mounting provisions for a
Kadee coupler. By the way, one of the three way couplers still exists in the
museum at Tweetsie.

With that said, I have to admit that I despise to idea of a front dummy
coupler. They severely limit the operating possibilities for an engine. We
(actually Jim) have to decide which is the lesser of the two evils -- an
ugly coupler that couples or an accurate coupler that doesn't. In a perfect
world we could have both at the same time, but that fact seems to escape the
coupler manufacturers.

If you decide to go with Kadee HOn3 couplers, a height of 30" will allow the
engine to mate with both ET&WNC narrow gauge equipment (28" coupler height)
and standard gauge equipment (about 32" coupler height). There will of
course be a 0.025" mismatch in both cases, but this doesn't seem cause much
of a problem on smooth trackwork since the couplers are oversize anyway. A
traditionally mounted HOn3 coupler will actually mate will a standard gauge
coupler on dual gauge trackage although the situation isn't exactly ideal.
If a kit builder isn't interested in mating with standard gauge equipment
and the mismatch for narrow gauge couplers becomes a reliability problem,
they can probably space the coupler down 0.025 without too much trouble. The
important thing is that the kit should easily allow the 30" height to be
obtained. Moving a coupler down is simple compared to moving it up.

As an aside, I'd be very interested even in individual castings (urethane,
brass, or whatever) for ET&WNC equipment in general. The three way coupler
is an obvious candidate with the "wiggly" brakewheel prevalent on the long
boxcars a close second.

Frank


Re: Progress on ET loco

Jim King <jking@...>
 

Frank,

Thanks for the comments. They will be addressed as the project unfolds.

WRT kits in urethane, are you aware that I've produced the hopper and 32' flat
already? If not, let me know off list and I'll give you ordering info. Feel
free to ask anyone who's purchased them (and hopefully BUILT them), what they
think.

Jim

As an aside, I'd be very interested even in individual castings (urethane,
brass, or whatever) for ET&WNC equipment in general. The three way coupler
is an obvious candidate with the "wiggly" brakewheel prevalent on the long
boxcars a close second.

Frank


Loco project

J. L. Walker <WEBSTERCLASSICMODELS@...>
 

WHAT??? $900+ for the brass from Key? The last I heard was 500 to 600 so
I only reserved one when I really wanted more. Very simply, I won't pay
$900 for ANY locomotive (HO scale, that is). I think we need to try to get
some straight info from Mr. Key, and if it is that much and/or isn't coming
soon, we should all just forget the reservations and help Jim do this. We
need to give him money to get this going. 25 or so kits left in his
basement are not going to do him any good.
So, If I hear that Key's price is really $900 or so already, I'll
pull my reservation and send Jim some money.
By the way, I have finished drawing Linville Depot. I am waiting
for the test cut to come from AMB. There will be a choice to be made
between wood ($$$) shingles or Plastic (Walker Model Co.)($). I do not
have an estimate on the kit or on the effect of wood vs plastic, but is the
wood worth $5 more on the retail price? Will keep you all up on the
project.
Les Walker dba Webster Classic Models


Prices

Steve & Gail Schulman <buchanan@...>
 

Jim King--Put me down for 2 engines. Era is not really important for me
as long as they look and run good. I tried to contact Key direct to get
info and the only have answering machine and don't ever return calls.
$900-1000 shouldn't suprise anyone. Look at price of other recent
imports.

Les Walker--On the Linville Depot, I'd rather have wood shingles but
could live with plastic if thats how the kit comes out. By the way
thanks for the drawings you sent.

All list readers--I'm new to this list so I don't know if this is old
news or not but David Hoffman is back. I just got his new catalog.
Prices up slightly but there will be several new items coming.

Steve Schulman, GM
Watauga & Northern RR Co.


Re: Loco project

Curtis Brookshire <curtis.brookshire@...>
 

I want to apologize for stirring up the hornet's nest, but I said what I did
to encourage comment.

Mr. McKee hasn't said anything about this project in about nine months.
That's part of my problem. He hasn't advertised, sent any more dealer
notices or anything referring to the ten wheeler project. He also hasn't
said that he won't do them either. I currently have four reserved through
Peach Creek Shops, but I'm encouraging Jim to go ahead because I'm not real
comfortable with the future of our brass, especially given what's happened
in the past.

The price estimation was my own. I'm attempting to be realistic based on
what I'm seeing new locomotives going for now. Most new locomotives are
retailing for over $1000.00 now, and many are in the $1400.00 range. I
recently priced DL&W MU cars that Overland is doing a second run on. The
power car is going for about $750.00, the unpowered trailer cars for
$475.00. I figured that if Key does decide to produce the 4-6-0s, they
probably won't ship until 2001 or 2002 since he has plenty of other
projects. So I estimated where I thought prices will be in 2-3 years.

I read an article somewhere about brass prices going to high as to be only
in the collector's realm. They ain't kidding. Problem is there are lots of
checkbook types out there that snatch them right up and keep prices
climbing. Really stings us poor folks.

I apologize again for ranting. I admire those of you out there who exercise
patience and restraint.

Les Walker: really look forward to seeing the Linville Depot kit. I'm sure
it will be great.

I'll shut up now,
Curtis


Re: Loco project

johnny graybeal <johnnyg@...>
 

To everyone,
I firmly agree that we need to get some kind of answer out of Key
Imports. When Malcolm handed ever the presidency to me, he indicated that
Marty McGuirk had reserved ALL right to be the person who talked,
negotiated, or whatever with Key. I suggest that someone, or better yet,
everyone who has placed a reservation for a tenwheeler (I never did),
contact Mr. McGuirk and put him into gear.
For the record, I will put down for an engine in HOn3. Only one at this
time because we just bought a house last year and my wife keeps comparing a
$400 kit to a $500 refridgerator. Anyway, I would like them to be available
for more than 30 days. Its hard to drum up HO interest if everything is out
of stock. I know Jim needs to make money but how limited does this need to
be.
Mr. McGuirk is a staff member of Model Railroader so I would think he
could be reached at their email address, which is @mrmag.com. If anyone has
his exact email address, please pass it along.
Congratulations to Jim for getting this far. It will take a good engine
to get me back into HO from G. You guessed it, easily detailed engines.
BTW, I am doing the preliminary work for building an indoor G scale layout
in my basement. I've got to have something to run my 9 engines on.
Johnny Graybeal
President ET&WNC RR Historical Society

-----Original Message-----
From: J. L. Walker <WEBSTERCLASSICMODELS@...>
To: Tweetsie Group <Tweetsie@...>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 11:22 PM
Subject: [Tweetsie] Loco project


From: "J. L. Walker" <WEBSTERCLASSICMODELS@...>

WHAT??? $900+ for the brass from Key? The last I heard was 500 to 600 so
I only reserved one when I really wanted more. Very simply, I won't pay
$900 for ANY locomotive (HO scale, that is). I think we need to try to get
some straight info from Mr. Key, and if it is that much and/or isn't coming
soon, we should all just forget the reservations and help Jim do this. We
need to give him money to get this going. 25 or so kits left in his
basement are not going to do him any good.
So, If I hear that Key's price is really $900 or so already, I'll
pull my reservation and send Jim some money.
By the way, I have finished drawing Linville Depot. I am waiting
for the test cut to come from AMB. There will be a choice to be made
between wood ($$$) shingles or Plastic (Walker Model Co.)($). I do not
have an estimate on the kit or on the effect of wood vs plastic, but is the
wood worth $5 more on the retail price? Will keep you all up on the
project.
Les Walker dba Webster Classic Models

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Re: Loco project

Karl & Edwina Kleeman <kleenc@...>
 

I too have a G guage ET&WNC railroad in my basement. It is a lot of fun.
Don't have room to run long trains but the ET&WNC
did not run long trains.

Actually, the G guage stuff is not expensive and is easy to work on. I
have been buying Bachmann cars at $20 with nice metal wheels. These are
great to kit bash into authentic ET&WNC equipment.

Am glad someone else is doing G guage. Is the new Aristo C-16 very close
to the consolidations that ET&WNC used in the early years? I have not seen
the Aristo ET&WNC C-16 as yet but a friend said it was very nice.

Karl Kleeman, Raleigh, NC


mcguirk address

C Ford <cfordart@...>
 

For anyone wanting to contact Marty McGuirk at MR magazine, his e-mail
address is

mmcguirk@...

I haven't seen or heard anything from him in a LONG time. Don't
understand why he should be the only contact with KEY unless it was to
keep too many cooks out of the kitchen so to speak, but if that's the way
it was set up, maybe we should get Marty to talk to KEY and let us know
what their intentions are for the ET engines. If they ain't gonna make
'em, then cancel the deal and I'll get my money back and reserve 3 of the
newly talked about engines. IMHO, KEY shouldn't keep people hanging for 3
or 4 years on a project. It was my understanding on the front end that if
they did not get 100 (or was it 150?) reservations within 6months to a
year, then the project would be dropped. And at the time, the price of
$800 each was being bantered about. Well, it's been over a year, more
like a year and a half to 2 (at least it seems like it :), and we're
still at square one.

I for one, am in no big hurry for the engines as I have no place to run
them, but I know many of you are ready and would like to have them now.

I say we contact Marty (I don't think he's on this group, Bob would know)
and see what KEY has to say. Once again, these are my opinions, your
mileage may vary :)

In the meantime, save your money for John's and my ET book coming to a
bookstore near you sometime this year (with any luck at all :)

Chris


-----------------------
Chris Ford
cfordart@...

http://www.mindspring.com/~cfordart/etwnc/home.html


Re: Progress on ET loco

Tuhr Barnes <TuhrBarnes@...>
 

Jim:

I will sign up for one ten wheeler in On3. While I model in Sn3, I
would also like to have on in the larger scale. I would probably then
have to buy a few car kits also.

As far as the valve gear issue. I built two Railmaster locos including
valve gear and found it to be a lot easier than I would have expected.
In fact, the cab was tougher than the valve gear! However, I suggest to
ensure a smooth mechanism, the side rods should be assembled along with
the drivers on a prepared frame. By making the chassis complete, it
becomes almost immpossible for the average modeler to mess the drive
up. The valve gear is relatively minor after that.

Point of note, I had never assembled a soft metal kit of any kind prior
to building my two locomotives. If the kit is well thought out and
produced, as Railmasters are, then just about anybody with a little
patience should be able to do it.

Tuhr Barnes


Jim King wrote:


From: Jim King <jking@...>

Hi all,

Just wanted to let everyone know the preliminary info I've received from
a British loco kit supplier regarding "our" ten wheelers in HO and O.

At this time, my source has tentatively agreed to provide a photoetched
brass frame, drivers on axles, and valve gear that may/may not require
assembly. Gearbox and can motor will be discussed later. His minimum
requirement is 50 units. I will take his parts and make the rest of the
parts using white metal, brass and urethane materials. At this time,
the engines will only be available in kit form but some may be
contracted out to other sources I have if you want them built and
painted. I don't have the time to assemble and paint any of them, but
if there is enough interest in having RTR engines, I'll find a source.

We do not have pricing at this time but I expect it to be in the upper
$400s for a complete kit. It's also too early to discuss delivery the
2000 convention is doable.

Here's what I need from the group for this to continue:

1. Baldwin erection drawings showing all necessary details to built the
frame, boiler, cab and tender.
2. Lots of photos showing the various eras you want modeled.
3. I need EVERYONE to get in touch with me somehow telling me EXACTLY
what version/era you want, how many you'd buy in kit form and built up,
and what scale you want (HOn3 or On3).

We cannot continue this project without a more definitive amount of
"sales". I don't want to import 50 units and get stuck with 30, so
please don't tell me you'll take 4 when you really mean 1!

I'm very encouraged by the response from this British manufacturer. His
track record speaks for itself in the UK and Australia. Assuming this
project goes thru, it will be the first US prototype produced using the
proposed combination of manufacturing methods. Also, by having the
majority of parts cast in urethane and white metal, this project has the
greatest potential for completion since the brass importers were
contacted many years ago.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress. In the meantime, please let me
know your thoughts, intentions and comments concerning this subject.

Thanks,

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works
Asheville, NC

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Key Import Discussion

Malcolm Marion <mmarion@...>
 

Hi everyone,

With the recent discussion about Marty MacGuirk and Key Imports ongoing, I
wanted to clarify the history of the brass imports to this point and Marty's
position in general.

As many of you know, there have been several attempts to get our brass ten
wheelers. During the era of the Friends of the ET&WNC, there was a failed
run at importing an ET&WNC engine. Around the time the ET&WNC Historical
Society formed and before my tenure as President, I was asked by John Waite
serve as Manufacturer Liaison. One of my great interests was to have a good
brass HOn3 engine for our members. I approached all the importers at that
time and was told in unison that Eastern brass prototypes would not sell.
However, Lee Riley of Bachman knew of our interest and obtained an entr�e
with Hallmark. After a long and drawn out process of several years, the
import deal fell through.

At that time, we had exhausted all our contacts. When Marty graciously
volunteered to contact Key and use his status with Model Railroader and
friendship with Mr. McKee to sweeten the deal, I thought it was a good idea.
Marty did ask that he be the sole contact to lessen the hassle factor from
our group with Key. The irritation factor had been stressed before during
the Hallmark process as other historical societies had left Hallmark and
other importers with a bad taste.

My understanding of the Key offer was to import the locomotives if we
reached the 150 unit threshold. The campaign was first to be limited to
around 6 to 9 months. As I understand it now, the offer is open ended. As
many of you, I would have preferred a more widespread advertising blitz, but
we weren't paying the bill either.

When I turned over my duties to Johnny this past June, I apprised him and
you the members as a whole of the current status.

I too think it is time to get another update and would hope Johnny has
already tried to get Marty. If others want to contact him, I am sure he
would be happy to talk to you too. I would ask, however, that you be civil.
He is on our side!

I am personally in favor of anything that will get good, working, accurate
4-6-O's on our tracks and would drop my reservation for the brass if we can
get Jim to produce his kits.

Malcolm


Re: Key Import Discussion

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

I have dealt with Dave at Key several times in the past (I helped them with
some painting information for some diesel runs - I was also involved with a
group who did some of the "factory" paint jobs for them some time back). I
can contact him if desired, and get some idea of where things stand. I
haven't talked to Dan since he was soliciting ideas for his railroad - but
that was before he moved from California. I talked to Dave a couple of
times in the past few years, and I think he won't mind a question or two -
no guarantees though. Bob

At 02:08 PM 2/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
From: "Malcolm Marion" <mmarion@...>

Hi everyone,

With the recent discussion about Marty MacGuirk and Key Imports ongoing, I
wanted to clarify the history of the brass imports to this point and Marty's
position in general.

As many of you know, there have been several attempts to get our brass ten
wheelers. During the era of the Friends of the ET&WNC, there was a failed
run at importing an ET&WNC engine. Around the time the ET&WNC Historical
Society formed and before my tenure as President, I was asked by John Waite
serve as Manufacturer Liaison. One of my great interests was to have a good
brass HOn3 engine for our members. I approached all the importers at that
time and was told in unison that Eastern brass prototypes would not sell.
However, Lee Riley of Bachman knew of our interest and obtained an entr�e
with Hallmark. After a long and drawn out process of several years, the
import deal fell through.

At that time, we had exhausted all our contacts. When Marty graciously
volunteered to contact Key and use his status with Model Railroader and
friendship with Mr. McKee to sweeten the deal, I thought it was a good idea.
Marty did ask that he be the sole contact to lessen the hassle factor from
our group with Key. The irritation factor had been stressed before during
the Hallmark process as other historical societies had left Hallmark and
other importers with a bad taste.

My understanding of the Key offer was to import the locomotives if we
reached the 150 unit threshold. The campaign was first to be limited to
around 6 to 9 months. As I understand it now, the offer is open ended. As
many of you, I would have preferred a more widespread advertising blitz, but
we weren't paying the bill either.

When I turned over my duties to Johnny this past June, I apprised him and
you the members as a whole of the current status.

I too think it is time to get another update and would hope Johnny has
already tried to get Marty. If others want to contact him, I am sure he
would be happy to talk to you too. I would ask, however, that you be civil.
He is on our side!

I am personally in favor of anything that will get good, working, accurate
4-6-O's on our tracks and would drop my reservation for the brass if we can
get Jim to produce his kits.

Malcolm



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