Topics

monitor 60M for new DXCC

aart wedemeijer PA3C
 

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

Please advise

Aart PA3C

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Michael Raskin
 

Although 60M does not count for DXCC, nor does ARRL track 60M QSOs, there is plenty of DX on FT8 at 5.377. Many hams have over 100 DX entities worked on 60M and a few have over 200. There is a way to "trick" DX Lab into tracking 60M countries, and here's how I do it: under DXKeeper, click on Check Progress, then Config, then Awards. Under Marathon, check ONLY "60M" and "Realtime Award Progress" - also click on the modes you want (I checked them all). This will give you realtime progress, but for only one year (you need to specify) at a time (2020 is fine for me since that's when I started FT8 on 60M). Understand that this won't work if you are also chasing other bands, modes, etc. under Marathon. Hey, it works for me but your mileage may vary.

73,
Mike, W4UM

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 10:59 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Michael Raskin
 

Sorry, TYPO: 5.357 NOT 5.377.

W4UM

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Raskin
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 11:31 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

Although 60M does not count for DXCC, nor does ARRL track 60M QSOs, there is
plenty of DX on FT8 at 5.377. Many hams have over 100 DX entities worked on
60M and a few have over 200. There is a way to "trick" DX Lab into tracking
60M countries, and here's how I do it: under DXKeeper, click on Check
Progress, then Config, then Awards. Under Marathon, check ONLY "60M" and
"Realtime Award Progress" - also click on the modes you want (I checked them
all). This will give you realtime progress, but for only one year (you need
to specify) at a time (2020 is fine for me since that's when I started FT8
on 60M). Understand that this won't work if you are also chasing other
bands, modes, etc. under Marathon. Hey, it works for me but your mileage
may vary.

73,
Mike, W4UM

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 10:59 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not support
realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this band to be
too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

aart wedemeijer PA3C
 

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 05:31 PM, Michael Raskin wrote:
but for only one year
That is not working for me thanks for the tip.

Aart

Wolf, DK1FW
 

Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are ARRL's prime customers.

However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused on the US situation.

A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing during the present sunspot minimum.
Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and would show almost no actitivity without DXing.

Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those of us, who are interested in 60m DX.

73 de Wolf, DK1FW


Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:

+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ




Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you raised)

Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz

I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA), from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause real issues, again, inside the USA.

Another scary issue:

There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.

So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style or congested operations on 60m inside the USA

Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and limitations imposed are not driven by whim.

...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or award operating is not "using it with care".

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
ARRL's prime customers.

However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
on the US situation.

A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
during the present sunspot minimum.
Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
would show almost no actitivity without DXing.

Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
of us, who are interested in 60m DX.

73 de Wolf, DK1FW


Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
> + AA6YQ comments below
>
> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
> I'm not good at SQL.
>
> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>
>            73,
>
>                     Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
>
>
>
>



Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.
*THERE IS NO DEBATE* That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
raised)
Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
80w It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
real issues, again, inside the USA.
Another scary issue:
There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
to this way of thinking.
Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
with the FCC?" The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being, we could lose the ability to
use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
award operating is not "using it with care".
73, N0AN
Hasan
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:

Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
ARRL's prime customers.

However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
on the US situation.

A blunt statement that 60m "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
during the present sunspot minimum.
Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
would show almost no actitivity without DXing.

Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
of us, who are interested in 60m DX.

73 de Wolf, DK1FW


Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

The purpose of my post was to explain to Wolf why, in my estimation,  Dave may have chosen not to include 60 meters in the Suite.(and to agree with it)  My comments were not to start a rehash of this worn out topic on the DXLab list! This is not the place for debate on 60m privileges, I didn't start a debate and won't continue one. This is my last post on the matter. Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach, and as a very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of the USA stations I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively, nor am I aware of any enforcement actions taken against them.

Where, precisely, did the following statement come from, or is it your own conclusion?
Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please cite the reference), or your interpretation of something else?

<Begin quote>:
The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.
<End quote>

If you have such a source, please email me privately, as this whole thing appears to be way off topic for DXLab, and I apologize to the list members for this kind of distraction.

73, N0AN
Hasan



On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:
On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>





Dave AA6YQ
 

+ Let's keep the discussion friendly, folks. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please
cite the reference), or your interpretation of something else? >
<Begin quote>:
The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.
<End quote>
The statement was my paraphrase of what ARRL have posted both on-line
at ARRL.org and printed in QST on multiple occasions. If you have a
disagreement, take it up with them.

Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach,
and as a very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of
the USA stations I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively,
nor am I aware of any enforcement actions taken against them.
I expect to see active enforcement of this rule (among others) as
the new Amateur Auxiliary (replacement for the old Official Observer
program but with designated enforcement authority from the FCC and
headed by Rudy Hollingsworth) gets up and running.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 9:56 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
The purpose of my post was to explain to Wolf why, in my estimation, Dave
may have chosen not to include 60 meters in the Suite.(and to agree with
it) My comments were not to start a rehash of this worn out topic on the
DXLab list! This is not the place for debate on 60m privileges, I didn't
start a debate and won't continue one. This is my last post on the matter.
Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach, and as a
very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of the USA stations
I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively, nor am I aware of any
enforcement actions taken against them.
Where, precisely, did the following statement come from, or is it your own
conclusion?
Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please cite
the reference), or your interpretation of something else?
<Begin quote>:
The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.
<End quote>
If you have such a source, please email me privately, as this whole thing
appears to be way off topic for DXLab, and I apologize to the list members
for this kind of distraction.
73, N0AN
Hasan
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:

On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.
*THERE IS NO DEBATE* That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
raised)

Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3
kHz
bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
80w It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz

I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the
USA),
from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
real issues, again, inside the USA.

Another scary issue:

There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
to this way of thinking.

Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or
other
services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.

So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact
be a
single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award
Style
or congested operations on 60m inside the USA

Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
limitations imposed are not driven by whim.

...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
with the FCC?" The answer is "never ask an authority a question you
can't
afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being, we could lose the ability
to
use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
award operating is not "using it with care".

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:

Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
ARRL's prime customers.

However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
on the US situation.

A blunt statement that 60m "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
during the present sunspot minimum.
Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
would show almost no actitivity without DXing.

Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
of us, who are interested in 60m DX.

73 de Wolf, DK1FW


Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
+ AA6YQ comments below

How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
I'm not good at SQL.

+ 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Barry Murrell ZS2EZ
 

Hi All

 

I for one am GOBSMACKED at how the USA (ARRL, FCC , NTA and others) are so far behind at sorting out the 60m allocation. Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing (for decades all we had on 40m was 7.0 to 7.1 !!!), and particularly with the narrow “JT” modes it is in fact a great DX band.

 

Even though we are still subject to limitations (basically no more than a dipole and limited power) there are a few of us with decent totals (my near-neighbour ZS2ACP and myself currently both sit on 81 entities). ZS2ACP has also completed WAS, while I am still 5 States short. The guys at http://60metersonline.com/ offer a certificate for this achievement.

 

The point I am trying to make is that whilst the USA may be restricted to a tiny allocation on 60m, many other countries are not. Whilst I understand (and totally respect) Dave’s decision not to support DXing on this band, I have long suspected that the ARRL have not put in any effort to bring the USA into line with the rest of the world as they have a different agenda for this band - po–sibly to try turning it into an EMCOMM-Only band??

 

In the meantime the rest of us will continue to DX on what is a really nice band – we just have to work around the lack of progress displays etc. Makes us appreciate the presence of these facilities in the DXLab Suite so much more!!!! J  If you need to check your totals, entities worked etc search the archives – Dave has provided filters and scripts to allow us to access all the necessary info. Works perfectly!!

 

73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ

KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa

EPC#0558 DMC#1690  30MDG#4081

DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)

DXCC(mixed)#41,146  DXCC(RTTY)#1,916

DXCC(phone)#34,990  DXCC(CW)#11,714

DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m   5BDXCC#8,916

WAS Triple Play #492  WAS(RTTY)#538  WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8

WAZ(RTTY)#185  WAE-I(mixed)#72  WAZS(mixed)#214  AAA#1569

AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334  UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75  UKSMG AFRICA#22  WAC (Satellite)

website : www.zs2ez.co.za

 

From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Hasan Schiers N0AN
Sent: Thursday, 16 January 2020 16:56
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

 

The purpose of my post was to explain to Wolf why, in my estimation,  Dave may have chosen not to include 60 meters in the Suite.(and to agree with it)  My comments were not to start a rehash of this worn out topic on the DXLab list! This is not the place for debate on 60m privileges, I didn't start a debate and won't continue one. This is my last post on the matter. Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach, and as a very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of the USA stations I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively, nor am I aware of any enforcement actions taken against them.

 

Where, precisely, did the following statement come from, or is it your own conclusion?

Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please cite the reference), or your interpretation of something else?

 

<Begin quote>:

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

<End quote>

 

If you have such a source, please email me privately, as this whole thing appears to be way off topic for DXLab, and I apologize to the list members for this kind of distraction.

 

73, N0AN

Hasan

 

 

 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:

On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>




Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing. 

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!

        73,

              Dave, AA6YQ

iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

73,

~iain / N6ML

Ken Meinken
 

Joe,
 I know the ARRL says "center frequency, one user only" but I cannot find anything in the actual FCC regulations. 

As for the ARRL, they were very wrong when we got the current allocations and modes and they proclaimed it was RTTY and PSK ONLY, nothing else, Therefore, I have low confidence in their accuracy regarding 60m. 
73, Ken WA8JXM


On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:
On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>





Dave AA6YQ
 

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Dave AA6YQ
 

Summary of 60m band allocations shown in

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations>

12 countries provide allocations of 50 kHz or more

1 country provides an allocation of 30 kHz

47 countries provide an allocation of 15 kHz

1 country provides an allocation of 12 kHz

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:40 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ






--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Wolf, DK1FW
 

It may be worthwhile to add that

the 15 kHz allocation used by 47 countries results from a decision at the 2015 World Radio Conference and is on a secondary basis. Many of these 47 countires have imposed a power limit between 15 and 30 watts EIRP to minimize potential for interference to primary users.
So there is a certain chance that this may evolve into a wider standard.

As stated earlier these 15 kHz are never overcrowded here in EU (not even the FT8 channel) and DXing is what keeps the band alive here apart from some daytime SSB ragchews. The power limits on this band make DXing particularly challenging and interesting. Unless "DXing" is understood as another word for "Award -Chasing" I do not go along with a statement that 60m is "too narrow for DXing".

73 de Wolf, DK1FW

Am 17.01.2020 um 08:49 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:

Summary of 60m band allocations shown in

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations>

12 countries provide allocations of 50 kHz or more

1 country provides an allocation of 30 kHz

47 countries provide an allocation of 15 kHz

1 country provides an allocation of 12 kHz

73,

Dave, AA6YQ



-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:40 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ





Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 01:24 AM, Wolf, DK1FW wrote:

Unless "DXing" is understood as another word for "Award -Chasing" I do not go along with a statement that 60m is "too narrow for DXing".

+ I meant "too narrow for award chasing".

 

            73,

                   Dave, AA6YQ

aart wedemeijer PA3C
 

Wikipedia is not up to date
I worked 80 countries in one month, heard many more. Most of them FT8 but also cw&ssb.
Clublog 'clubleages' shows 166 countries on the no. 1 @ VERON.

So about 50% of the DXCC's is able to work on 60M.

Some suppport from the app would be nice.

73

Aart