DXKeeper take 5 minutes to start?


Neal Pollack
 

Hi:

I was having DXKeeper randomly take several minutes (after double-clicking the desktop icon) to open the app window on the desktop.  This was with Windows 10, a 4 year old system.
For a variety of unrelated reasons, I just built a new desktop PC using a core i7-12700K, 32 GB of Ram, and running windows 11 Pro.
I reinstalled DXKeeper ver 16.5.5 on this new computer.   When I launch the app, it can take a full 5 minutes before opening on the desktop.
I can see the app immediately in task manager.
The log file lives on a network drive.    I can open an explorer window for that log file network folder even before launching, and verify that I can see the log file.
But when launching the DXKeeper app, nothing happens for several minutes.

Is there some debug mode I can turn on that will show what DXKeeper is actually doing for so many minutes?
I checked in the app directory and there is no error log information.

Thanks,

Neal    N6YFM


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
I was having DXKeeper randomly take several minutes (after double-clicking the desktop icon) to open the app window on the desktop.  This was with Windows 10, a 4 year old system.
For a variety of unrelated reasons, I just built a new desktop PC using a core i7-12700K, 32 GB of Ram, and running windows 11 Pro.
I reinstalled DXKeeper ver 16.5.5 on this new computer.   When I launch the app, it can take a full 5 minutes before opening on the desktop.
I can see the app immediately in task manager.
The log file lives on a network drive.    I can open an explorer window for that log file network folder even before launching, and verify that I can see the log file.
But when launching the DXKeeper app, nothing happens for several minutes.

Is there some debug mode I can turn on that will show what DXKeeper is actually doing for so many minutes?
I checked in the app directory and there is no error log information.

+ DXKeeper is being prevented from running, most likely by your anti-malware. See

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/ApplicationInteference

+ The acid test for this: reboot Windows into "Safe Mode with Networking", and then start DXKeeper. How long does DXKeeper now take to start?

 

    73,

            Dave, AA6YQ

 

 


Larry Benoit
 

Hi Neal,

Does this behavior occur shortly after you have rebooted your computer? If it does, try rebooting and wait five minutes before you start Launcher and let us know the result. 

Also, here is lengthy thread on the this issue:
https://groups.io/g/DXLab/topic/launcher_and_other_dx_lab/88731269?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C1%2C0%2C0&prev=1

73,
Larry KB1VFU


Neal Pollack
 

I have added exceptions in BitDefender anti-virus for dxkeeper.exe, AND the entire folder.
I have rebooted several times, and wait at least 5 minutes before launching, and  it still does not open the 
DXKeeper several minutes after launch, although DXKeeper.exe does indeed show in Task Manager as running.

I use approx 70 other applications on Windows 10 and 11, and none of the others show this behavior.   Do you guys
have any type of trace or debug capability built into the DXKeeper code so that we can figure out where it is
hanging or timing out?

Cheers,

Neal    N6YFM


Neal Pollack
 

Hi Larry and Dave:

I reviewed https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/ApplicationInteference and also the thread that Larry mentions.   
This is an honest question, but after reading that above, are the DXlabs programs written with an unusual framework/programming
product that is not frequently used anymore?   It seems that there are dozens of known interactions with other software, utilities, and
anti-virus, that all cause trouble for DXLabs.   But these same utilities, programs, and anti-virus cause absolutely no issue with dozens
of other ham software products, office suites, dozens of photography apps, and approx one dozen programs that I use for developing
software for microcontrollers and uploading the compiled software/firmware onto the projects.    It strikes me curious that the DXLabs
software is the lone victim (or cause?) here?    Honestly, it would be very interesting to understand why,  what about the programming
method, for the DXLabs apps, is causing both you guys and us users so much headache here?

Wait, interrupt, DXKeeper finally opened on screen,   8.5 minutes after launch...
Windows 11 Pro, 21H2,  OS Build: 22000.708

Neal
 


Mike Kasrich
 

I have found when DXLab takes a while to boot, spotcollector usually is culprit. Clearing the spot history usually speeds thing up.

On 6/12/2022 3:04 PM, Neal Pollack wrote:

Hi Larry and Dave:

I reviewed https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/ApplicationInteference and also the thread that Larry mentions.   
This is an honest question, but after reading that above, are the DXlabs programs written with an unusual framework/programming
product that is not frequently used anymore?   It seems that there are dozens of known interactions with other software, utilities, and
anti-virus, that all cause trouble for DXLabs.   But these same utilities, programs, and anti-virus cause absolutely no issue with dozens
of other ham software products, office suites, dozens of photography apps, and approx one dozen programs that I use for developing
software for microcontrollers and uploading the compiled software/firmware onto the projects.    It strikes me curious that the DXLabs
software is the lone victim (or cause?) here?    Honestly, it would be very interesting to understand why,  what about the programming
method, for the DXLabs apps, is causing both you guys and us users so much headache here?

Wait, interrupt, DXKeeper finally opened on screen,   8.5 minutes after launch...
Windows 11 Pro, 21H2,  OS Build: 22000.708

Neal
 


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
have added exceptions in BitDefender anti-virus for dxkeeper.exe, AND the entire folder.
I have rebooted several times, and wait at least 5 minutes before launching, and  it still does not open the 
DXKeeper several minutes after launch, although DXKeeper.exe does indeed show in Task Manager as running.

I use approx 70 other applications on Windows 10 and 11, and none of the others show this behavior.   Do you guys
have any type of trace or debug capability built into the DXKeeper code so that we can figure out where it is
hanging or timing out?

+ DXKeeper is not "hanging" - it is being prevented from running. It's extensive built-in errorlogging cannot identify the sourced of the interference.

+ DXLab applications require a properly operating Windows environment; an environment in which applications can be prevented from executing does not qualify.

         73,

                Dave, AA6YQ

 

 

 


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
I reviewed https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/ApplicationInteference and also the thread that Larry mentions.   
This is an honest question, but after reading that above, are the DXlabs programs written with an unusual framework/programming
product that is not frequently used anymore?   It seems that there are dozens of known interactions with other software, utilities, and
anti-virus, that all cause trouble for DXLabs.   But these same utilities, programs, and anti-virus cause absolutely no issue with dozens
of other ham software products, office suites, dozens of photography apps, and approx one dozen programs that I use for developing
software for microcontrollers and uploading the compiled software/firmware onto the projects.    It strikes me curious that the DXLabs
software is the lone victim (or cause?) here?    Honestly, it would be very interesting to understand why,  what about the programming
method, for the DXLabs apps, is causing both you guys and us users so much headache here?

Wait, interrupt, DXKeeper finally opened on screen,   8.5 minutes after launch...
Windows 11 Pro, 21H2,  OS Build: 22000.708

+ The fact that DXLab is a suite of interoperating applications causes incompetent or misconfigured anti-malware to assume that they are malware.

+ The fact that any other running application can slow or stop the execution of a DXLab application demonstrates a fundamental failure of Windows to execute a fundamental duty of an operating system: preventing running applications from interfering with each other.

      73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

 

 


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
I have found when DXLab takes a while to boot, spotcollector usually is culprit. Clearing the spot history usually speeds thing up.

+ SpotCollector provides the ability to automatically keep its Spot Database at a specified size. See

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/OptimizeSCPerformance

        73,

               Dave, AA6YQ


rjf802@...
 

I have an issue with DXLab starting slow...I took the time to check my system and the programs installed.  After some trouble shooting I found that Stream Deck software was causing my issue.  When I stopped Stream Deck from running in the background DXLab started up very quickly...so since I use Stream Deck with the Flex I just give DXLab extra time.  DXLab is well worth the wait...Just my 2 cents.
--

Regards,
Ronald


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I have an issue with DXLab starting slow...I took the time to check my system and the programs installed. After some trouble shooting I found that Stream Deck software was causing my issue. When I stopped Stream Deck from running in the background DXLab started up very quickly...so since I use Stream Deck with the Flex I just give DXLab extra time. DXLab is well worth the wait...Just my 2 cents.

+ Thanks, Ronald. Are there functions you can perform with Stream Deck that can't be accomplished with Commander's user-defined command sequences?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Larry Benoit
 

Neal,

I may jumped to an incorrect conclusion that you are executing DXKeeper via DXLauncher.  For clarification are you running DXKeeper directly from the Windows applications menu or via DXLauncher?

Like you I run dozens of apps and they all start quickly shortly after boot-up, except DXLauncher on my Win 8.1 desktop. 

Though a corrupt log file seems very unlikely, you might consider creating a new log file (.mdb) on the C: drive for test purposes and see what happens. 

Good luck and 73,
Larry KB1VFU


W0MU
 

Curious what antivirus protection people are using.  I have Bitdefender and I see fairly slow "boot" time when launching the programs.  I have the DXL directory excluded from scans etc.  This one is running Windows 11 and is a considerably better computer.

I will have to check this against my old computer.

W0MU

On 6/13/2022 2:56 PM, Larry Benoit wrote:
Neal,

I may jumped to an incorrect conclusion that you are executing DXKeeper via DXLauncher.  For clarification are you running DXKeeper directly from the Windows applications menu or via DXLauncher?

Like you I run dozens of apps and they all start quickly shortly after boot-up, except DXLauncher on my Win 8.1 desktop. 

Though a corrupt log file seems very unlikely, you might consider creating a new log file (.mdb) on the C: drive for test purposes and see what happens. 

Good luck and 73,
Larry KB1VFU


W0MU
 

I would add that it takes the programs a while to close too and I frequently see the spinning mouse icon.

W0MU

On 6/13/2022 3:07 PM, W0MU wrote:

Curious what antivirus protection people are using.  I have Bitdefender and I see fairly slow "boot" time when launching the programs.  I have the DXL directory excluded from scans etc.  This one is running Windows 11 and is a considerably better computer.

I will have to check this against my old computer.

W0MU

On 6/13/2022 2:56 PM, Larry Benoit wrote:
Neal,

I may jumped to an incorrect conclusion that you are executing DXKeeper via DXLauncher.  For clarification are you running DXKeeper directly from the Windows applications menu or via DXLauncher?

Like you I run dozens of apps and they all start quickly shortly after boot-up, except DXLauncher on my Win 8.1 desktop. 

Though a corrupt log file seems very unlikely, you might consider creating a new log file (.mdb) on the C: drive for test purposes and see what happens. 

Good luck and 73,
Larry KB1VFU


Jim N7US
 

I don’t have any issues with BitDefender,

 

Jim N7US

 

 

From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of W0MU via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 16:19
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] DXKeeper take 5 minutes to start?

 

I would add that it takes the programs a while to close too and I frequently see the spinning mouse icon.

W0MU

On 6/13/2022 3:07 PM, W0MU wrote:

Curious what antivirus protection people are using.  I have Bitdefender and I see fairly slow "boot" time when launching the programs.  I have the DXL directory excluded from scans etc.  This one is running Windows 11 and is a considerably better computer.

I will have to check this against my old computer.

W0MU

On 6/13/2022 2:56 PM, Larry Benoit wrote:

Neal,

I may jumped to an incorrect conclusion that you are executing DXKeeper via DXLauncher.  For clarification are you running DXKeeper directly from the Windows applications menu or via DXLauncher?

Like you I run dozens of apps and they all start quickly shortly after boot-up, except DXLauncher on my Win 8.1 desktop. 

Though a corrupt log file seems very unlikely, you might consider creating a new log file (.mdb) on the C: drive for test purposes and see what happens. 

Good luck and 73,
Larry KB1VFU


Dave AA6YQ
 

I may jumped to an incorrect conclusion that you are executing DXKeeper via DXLauncher. For clarification are you running DXKeeper directly from the Windows applications menu or via DXLauncher?

Like you I run dozens of apps and they all start quickly shortly after boot-up, except DXLauncher on my Win 8.1 desktop.

Though a corrupt log file seems very unlikely, you might consider creating a new log file (.mdb) on the C: drive for test purposes and see what happens.

+ In the 21 years that DXKeeper has been publicly available, a "corrupt log file" has *never* been found to be the root cause of "slow startup". The culprit has almost always been misconfigured or incompetent anti-malware.

+ On startup, DXKeeper invokes TQSL and directs it to report any "news" - like a Callsign Certificate's imminent expiration or the availability of a new version. Some particularly lazy anti-malware considers this to be evidence that DXKeeper is malware.

73,


Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Curious what antivirus protection people are using. I have Bitdefender and I see fairly slow "boot" time when launching the programs. I have the DXL directory excluded from scans etc. This one is running Windows 11 and is a considerably better computer.

I will have to check this against my old computer.

+ All DXLab updates are sent to Microsoft for clearance by the team that operates Windows Defender. If you update your Windows Defender malware definitions before updating to any new public DXLab version -- the first step in each release note -- you should not encounter interference from Windows Defender.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Ron
 

I found that if I just wait approximately 3-5 minutes after the computer boots, that DXLauncher starts normally.  If I launched it during that period, it would take that long to finally show up. I went through my start up apps and finally narrowed the cause of the delay down to syncthing-gtk, which is a file syncing app that I use to share and keep files up to date between my two computers. Works great as a backup as there is always a current copy of every folder on both computers at all times.  I found even if the other computer was not turned on, the execution of DXLauncher is still delayed by syncthing app.  I tried launching 9 other apps while DXLauncher was still being delayed, including DX4WIN, N1MM, WSJT-X, Outlook, and Word, and all opened at normal speed.  I even let one app that I ran run an update that it detected upon launch and the update downloaded, installed and reran the new version of that app while DXLauncher was still delayed. Bottom line, during the syncthing app’s first 3-5 minutes of launching, it prevents DXLauncher from opening during that period.

I captured the attached screenshot   (hope I did the link correctly - if not, the jpeg is in the files directory called: Screenshot DXLab process explorer of Process Explorer)   of when I run DXLauncher and it is stopped to wait. It halts after the execution of wow64win.dll.  I also saved a dump file from it and ran that through WinDbg and its analysis generated the following info below. I fully admit, all of which is out of my league of expertise in Windows.  Just thought it might help someone else. 

 https://groups.io/g/DXLab/files/Screenshot%20DXLab%20process%20explorer.jpg

SYMBOL_NAME:  win32u!NtUserMessageCall+c

 

MODULE_NAME: win32u

 

IMAGE_NAME:  win32u.dll

 

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  BREAKPOINT_80000003_win32u.dll!NtUserMessageCall

 

OS_VERSION:  10.0.19041.1

 

BUILDLAB_STR:  vb_release

 

OSPLATFORM_TYPE:  x86

 

OSNAME:  Windows 10

 

IMAGE_VERSION:  10.0.19041.1706

 

FAILURE_ID_HASH:  {480a4842-2575-13e3-cc50-ad5499b14f37}

 

 

I have also found that if I run DXLauncher BEFORE syncthing auto starts, that it will open without delay.  At that point I can then start the other DXLab modules as I need them with no delays.  Thus I will play with seeing if I can include DXLauncher and have it do so prior to syncthing launching.

Thanks and 73!

Ron WU4G


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
I found that if I just wait approximately 3-5 minutes after the computer boots, that DXLauncher starts normally.  If I launched it during that period, it would take that long to finally show up. I went through my start up apps and finally narrowed the cause of the delay down to syncthing-gtk, which is a file syncing app that I use to share and keep files up to date between my two computers. Works great as a backup as there is always a current copy of every folder on both computers at all times.  I found even if the other computer was not turned on, the execution of DXLauncher is still delayed by syncthing app.  I tried launching 9 other apps while DXLauncher was still being delayed, including DX4WIN, N1MM, WSJT-X, Outlook, and Word, and all opened at normal speed.  I even let one app that I ran run an update that it detected upon launch and the update downloaded, installed and reran the new version of that app while DXLauncher was still delayed. Bottom line, during the syncthing app’s first 3-5 minutes of launching, it prevents DXLauncher from opening during that period.

+ At startup, the Launcher makes several queries over the internet to determine what releases of DXLab applications are available, and what database versions are available. It also interacts with other running DXLab applications via DDE. 

+ If some other application you're running is preventing the Launcher for executing those functions, that's the fault of that application.

        73,

            Dave, AA6YQ

 


Paul Carff
 

All,

I am running windows 11 and found there is a wifi service (KillerAPS and a few other services with "killer" in their name ) that when I kill them - I have no issues running dxlabs .  If these are running - I have the delayed start issues.

73,
WW4S - Paul



On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 12:30 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below
I found that if I just wait approximately 3-5 minutes after the computer boots, that DXLauncher starts normally.  If I launched it during that period, it would take that long to finally show up. I went through my start up apps and finally narrowed the cause of the delay down to syncthing-gtk, which is a file syncing app that I use to share and keep files up to date between my two computers. Works great as a backup as there is always a current copy of every folder on both computers at all times.  I found even if the other computer was not turned on, the execution of DXLauncher is still delayed by syncthing app.  I tried launching 9 other apps while DXLauncher was still being delayed, including DX4WIN, N1MM, WSJT-X, Outlook, and Word, and all opened at normal speed.  I even let one app that I ran run an update that it detected upon launch and the update downloaded, installed and reran the new version of that app while DXLauncher was still delayed. Bottom line, during the syncthing app’s first 3-5 minutes of launching, it prevents DXLauncher from opening during that period.

+ At startup, the Launcher makes several queries over the internet to determine what releases of DXLab applications are available, and what database versions are available. It also interacts with other running DXLab applications via DDE. 

+ If some other application you're running is preventing the Launcher for executing those functions, that's the fault of that application.

        73,

            Dave, AA6YQ