Topics

Distance for a QSO


Sidney Shusterman
 










I don't know if there is a proper place to ask this question but I believe the knowledge base here has the answer.

I work a lot of VHF these days. Since I have the distance parameter selected for DXK I notice that every program seems to have a different distance. For example I work a 2M MSK144 QSO. JT Alert/WSJT-X reports one distance. QRZ.com has a different distance between QSO partners. I imagine DXK is only reporting what has been supplied by the databases.

Please don't shoot the messenger. Just tell me who can answer this question and I will slink back under my rock.

73

Sid K3SX


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I don't know if there is a proper place to ask this question but I believe the knowledge base here has the answer.

I work a lot of VHF these days. Since I have the distance parameter selected for DXK I notice that every program seems to have a different distance. For example I work a 2M MSK144 QSO. JT Alert/WSJT-X reports one distance. QRZ.com has a different distance between QSO partners. I imagine DXK is only reporting what has been supplied by the databases.

Please don't shoot the messenger. Just tell me who can answer this question and I will slink back under my rock.

+ What's your question?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Sidney Shusterman
 

My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

On 10/2/2020 12:56 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

I don't know if there is a proper place to ask this question but I believe the knowledge base here has the answer.

I work a lot of VHF these days. Since I have the distance parameter selected for DXK I notice that every program seems to have a different distance. For example I work a 2M MSK144 QSO. JT Alert/WSJT-X reports one distance. QRZ.com has a different distance between QSO partners. I imagine DXK is only reporting what has been supplied by the databases.

Please don't shoot the messenger. Just tell me who can answer this question and I will slink back under my rock.

+ What's your question?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ






Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGridSource>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:22 AM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGridSource>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.
I suppose the question (pertinent to this forum) really is:

What is the source of the Distance recorded in DXKeeper's log for a
QSO made using WSJT-X (or JTDX), logged via JTAlert?

Maybe we can't fully answer that, since it may depend on what the data
from JTAlert includes, but at least we could determine what DXKeeper
would do for such a log event if no "Distance" is included in the data
from JTAlert? Does it use the Grid from the JTAlert QSO data, or does
it do a callbook lookup and use location data from that, or .... ?

From a quick peek at my log, I see some FT8 QSOs that have Distance
and others that do not. There's no clear pattern yet.

73,

~iain / N6ML


Dave AA6YQ
 

* more AA6YQ comments below
My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGrid
Source>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:


https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm
#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.
I suppose the question (pertinent to this forum) really is:

What is the source of the Distance recorded in DXKeeper's log for a QSO made using WSJT-X (or JTDX), logged via JTAlert?

* If you're logging the QSO via JTAlert, then then DXKeeper computes the distance based on the latitude and longitude specified in the QSO Record received from JTAlert, and the location specified in your "my QTH" or (if you don’t have a "my QTH" defined") the QTH latitude and longitude specified in the Defaults tab of DXKeeper's Configuration window.

Maybe we can't fully answer that, since it may depend on what the data from JTAlert includes, but at least we could determine what DXKeeper would do for such a log event if no "Distance" is included in the data from JTAlert? Does it use the Grid from the JTAlert QSO data, or does it do a callbook lookup and use location data from that, or .... ?

* JTAlert specifies a latitude and longitude. It can be configured to populate these fields from a callbook lookup, or it can compute them from the station's 4-character grid square. In the latter case, I don't know whether it uses the center of the grid square, or one of its corners.

From a quick peek at my log, I see some FT8 QSOs that have Distance and others that do not. There's no clear pattern yet.

* To compute the distance, DXKeeper also needs to know whether the propagation is short path or long path. See

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/QSODistance>

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:44 AM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:

* more AA6YQ comments below
My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGrid
Source>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:


https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm
#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.
I suppose the question (pertinent to this forum) really is:

What is the source of the Distance recorded in DXKeeper's log for a QSO made using WSJT-X (or JTDX), logged via JTAlert?

* If you're logging the QSO via JTAlert, then then DXKeeper computes the distance based on the latitude and longitude specified in the QSO Record received from JTAlert, and the location specified in your "my QTH" or (if you don’t have a "my QTH" defined") the QTH latitude and longitude specified in the Defaults tab of DXKeeper's Configuration window.

Maybe we can't fully answer that, since it may depend on what the data from JTAlert includes, but at least we could determine what DXKeeper would do for such a log event if no "Distance" is included in the data from JTAlert? Does it use the Grid from the JTAlert QSO data, or does it do a callbook lookup and use location data from that, or .... ?

* JTAlert specifies a latitude and longitude. It can be configured to populate these fields from a callbook lookup, or it can compute them from the station's 4-character grid square. In the latter case, I don't know whether it uses the center of the grid square, or one of its corners.

From a quick peek at my log, I see some FT8 QSOs that have Distance and others that do not. There's no clear pattern yet.

* To compute the distance, DXKeeper also needs to know whether the propagation is short path or long path. See

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/QSODistance>
How does DXKeeper know if the QSO was SP or LP if it was logged via
JTAlert? Is that included in the QSO data? I don't know how JTAlert
would know....

73,

~iain / N6ML


Sidney Shusterman
 

Thank you Dave! This is the type of answer I was hoping to see.

73 Sid K3SX

On 10/2/2020 1:43 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
* more AA6YQ comments below
My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGrid
Source>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm
#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.
I suppose the question (pertinent to this forum) really is:

What is the source of the Distance recorded in DXKeeper's log for a QSO made using WSJT-X (or JTDX), logged via JTAlert?

* If you're logging the QSO via JTAlert, then then DXKeeper computes the distance based on the latitude and longitude specified in the QSO Record received from JTAlert, and the location specified in your "my QTH" or (if you don’t have a "my QTH" defined") the QTH latitude and longitude specified in the Defaults tab of DXKeeper's Configuration window.

Maybe we can't fully answer that, since it may depend on what the data from JTAlert includes, but at least we could determine what DXKeeper would do for such a log event if no "Distance" is included in the data from JTAlert? Does it use the Grid from the JTAlert QSO data, or does it do a callbook lookup and use location data from that, or .... ?

* JTAlert specifies a latitude and longitude. It can be configured to populate these fields from a callbook lookup, or it can compute them from the station's 4-character grid square. In the latter case, I don't know whether it uses the center of the grid square, or one of its corners.

From a quick peek at my log, I see some FT8 QSOs that have Distance and others that do not. There's no clear pattern yet.
* To compute the distance, DXKeeper also needs to know whether the propagation is short path or long path. See

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/QSODistance>

73,

Dave, AA6YQ





iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:01 AM iain macdonnell - N6ML <ar@dseven.org> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:44 AM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:

* more AA6YQ comments below
My question is why are there different distances reported by the databases for the same QSO?

+ Different applications use different sources of information for the location of a station. A 4-character grid square is different than a latitude and longitude obtained from a callbook lookup, a latitude and longitude derived from a postal address, or a latitude and longitude obtained from a previously logged QSO.

+ As described here, SpotCollector keeps track of 5 different possible sources of location information for each active station:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#DXGrid
Source>

+ It's "Grid Sources for VUCC" panel (Configuration window, General tab) specifies which sources you consider accurate enough for VUCC:


https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/ConfigurationGeneral.htm
#Grid%20Sources%20for%20VUCC>

+ Location information from the USAP and DXCC databases is not accurate enough for VUCC.
I suppose the question (pertinent to this forum) really is:

What is the source of the Distance recorded in DXKeeper's log for a QSO made using WSJT-X (or JTDX), logged via JTAlert?

* If you're logging the QSO via JTAlert, then then DXKeeper computes the distance based on the latitude and longitude specified in the QSO Record received from JTAlert, and the location specified in your "my QTH" or (if you don’t have a "my QTH" defined") the QTH latitude and longitude specified in the Defaults tab of DXKeeper's Configuration window.

Maybe we can't fully answer that, since it may depend on what the data from JTAlert includes, but at least we could determine what DXKeeper would do for such a log event if no "Distance" is included in the data from JTAlert? Does it use the Grid from the JTAlert QSO data, or does it do a callbook lookup and use location data from that, or .... ?

* JTAlert specifies a latitude and longitude. It can be configured to populate these fields from a callbook lookup, or it can compute them from the station's 4-character grid square. In the latter case, I don't know whether it uses the center of the grid square, or one of its corners.

From a quick peek at my log, I see some FT8 QSOs that have Distance and others that do not. There's no clear pattern yet.

* To compute the distance, DXKeeper also needs to know whether the propagation is short path or long path. See

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/QSODistance>
How does DXKeeper know if the QSO was SP or LP if it was logged via
JTAlert? Is that included in the QSO data? I don't know how JTAlert
would know....
P.S. looking at some of the logged-via-JTAlert QSOs that *do* have
distance populated, the "Antenna path" field is *not* populated.


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
How does DXKeeper know if the QSO was SP or LP if it was logged via
JTAlert? Is that included in the QSO data? I don't know how JTAlert
would know....
+ If the received QSO record doesn't specify an antenna path, DXKeeper substitutes the Antenna path specified on its Configuration window's Defaults tab.

         73,

              Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
P.S. looking at some of the logged-via-JTAlert QSOs that *do* have
distance populated, the "Antenna path" field is *not* populated.

+ That implies that JTAlert is calculating the distance and including it in the QSO record it sends to DXKeeper.

        73,

             Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

* more AA6YQ comments below
P.S. looking at some of the logged-via-JTAlert QSOs that *do* have
distance populated, the "Antenna path" field is *not* populated.

+ That implies that JTAlert is calculating the distance and including it in the QSO record it sends to DXKeeper.

* If you enable DXKeeper's "Log debugging info" option before logging a QSO from JT-Alert, it's errorlog.txt file will show you the ADIF record received from JT-Alert.

         73,

              Dave, AA6YQ


iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:35 AM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

P.S. looking at some of the logged-via-JTAlert QSOs that *do* have
distance populated, the "Antenna path" field is *not* populated.

+ That implies that JTAlert is calculating the distance and including it in the QSO record it sends to DXKeeper.
I wonder why it's not doing it consistently, then. I'm not sure how to
inspect what it's doing, off-hand. Maybe enabling debug logging in
DXKeeper would capture it?

I do *not* have a default specified for Antenna Path in DXKeeper, so I
infer that that means that DXKeeper will not attempt to calculate a
Distance unless JTAlert supplies lat/long *and* antenna path values.

73,

~iain / N6ML


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

+ That implies that JTAlert is calculating the distance and including it in the QSO record it sends to DXKeeper.
I wonder why it's not doing it consistently, then. I'm not sure how to inspect what it's doing, off-hand. Maybe enabling debug logging in DXKeeper would capture it?

+ It will. The received ADIF QSO record will be obvious in the errorlog. Search for the callsign of the station logged.

I do *not* have a default specified for Antenna Path in DXKeeper, so I infer that that means that DXKeeper will not attempt to calculate a Distance unless JTAlert supplies lat/long *and* antenna path values.

+ Correct.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ