WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?


Andrew OBrien
 

Using Winwarbler to send CW with a Flex 6000 radio on the household LAN, I have followed the instructions, as best I can.  I get keying of the rig in CW mode but no side tone. Is there a solution for this or this an unfixed Flex issues ?

Instructions I followed were

Flex-6000 transceivers can directly transmit CW, so on the CW tab of WinWarbler's Configuration window,

  1. set the Xcvr mode selector to CW

  2. set the CW offset (hz) to 0 (or leave the box empty)

  3. set the Default TxPwr to the power (in watts) you'll use when operating in CW

  4. check the display xmit/rcv characters box

  5. in the Keyboard mode panel

    • uncheck the auto start and auto stop boxes (explore these later)

    • select character (if you are using an amplifier, word is more appropriate)

  6. set the Keying panel to Xcvr Ctrl App


Andy K3UK


Dave AA6YQ
 

Using Winwarbler to send CW with a Flex 6000 radio on the household LAN, I have followed the instructions, as best I can. I get keying of the rig in CW mode but no side tone. Is there a solution for this or this an unfixed Flex issues ?

+ Works here with WinWarbler and my Flex 6500.

+ In the upper-right corner of the SmartSDR window, there's a small P/CW tab. If this tab is rendered with a grey background, click it to enable the display of a panel that includes sliders for Delay, Speed, and Sidetone. Set the Sidetone slider to the middle of its range.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Andrew OBrien
 

I can hear the sidetone via speakers connected to the back of the 6400 if I am connected from 6400 to PC directly (via ethernet cable) but not if I am using it connected via the LAN and "away" from the 6400.  No sidetone audio is generated to the laptop.  I could turn up the sidetone volume to 100 and listen carefully from the other room . :)


Andy K3UK 


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I can hear the sidetone via speakers connected to the back of the 6400 if I am connected from 6400 to PC directly (via ethernet cable) but not if I am using it connected via the LAN and "away" from the 6400. No sidetone audio is generated to the laptop. I could turn up the sidetone volume to 100 and listen carefully from the other room . :)

+ I suggest that you engage with Flex Technical Support. Please post the results here.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Andrew OBrien
 

Flex replied that one can only hear a sidetone with a Flex 6000 series radio via use of the CWX feature or from the speaker out jack of the radio.  In other words, you cannot use WW of something  like N1MM to generate a sidetone at the client user end.  They did tell me of a third party app that has a bit of a workaround using a paired set of virtual serial ports.  See a video review by Flex's VA3MW at WD8KNC-Sidetone (screencast-o-matic.com)

Andy K3UK

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:39 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

I can hear the sidetone via speakers connected to the back of the 6400 if I am connected from 6400 to PC directly (via ethernet cable) but not if I am using it connected via the LAN and "away" from the 6400.  No sidetone audio is generated to the laptop.  I could turn up the sidetone volume to 100 and listen carefully from the other room . :)

+ I suggest that you engage with Flex Technical Support. Please post the results here.

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ








Jeff Schwartz
 

I often use WW to send CW with my 6500M and I hear the side tone in my powered speakers or headset without any issue. I just have the side tone activated and volume adjusted in the TX Panel ( push button Mic/Pwr button). Not sure if that’s what you are talking about or I misunderstood your issue. No other program or workaround for me. 
Jeff / KI0KB

On May 28, 2022, at 6:55 PM, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...> wrote:


Flex replied that one can only hear a sidetone with a Flex 6000 series radio via use of the CWX feature or from the speaker out jack of the radio.  In other words, you cannot use WW of something  like N1MM to generate a sidetone at the client user end.  They did tell me of a third party app that has a bit of a workaround using a paired set of virtual serial ports.  See a video review by Flex's VA3MW at WD8KNC-Sidetone (screencast-o-matic.com)

Andy K3UK

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:39 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

I can hear the sidetone via speakers connected to the back of the 6400 if I am connected from 6400 to PC directly (via ethernet cable) but not if I am using it connected via the LAN and "away" from the 6400.  No sidetone audio is generated to the laptop.  I could turn up the sidetone volume to 100 and listen carefully from the other room . :)

+ I suggest that you engage with Flex Technical Support. Please post the results here.

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ








Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
Flex replied that one can only hear a sidetone with a Flex 6000 series radio via use of the CWX feature or from the speaker out jack of the radio.  In other words, you cannot use WW of something  like N1MM to generate a sidetone at the client user end.  They did tell me of a third party app that has a bit of a workaround using a paired set of virtual serial ports.  See a video review by Flex's VA3MW at WD8KNC-Sidetone (screencast-o-matic.com)

+ Thanks, Andy! WinWarlbler provides WinKey support. If you decide to try WD8KNC's application for "remote sidetone", please let me know if it works so that I can include it in the "Getting Started with DXLab" wiki.

        73,

               Dave, AA6YQ


dxradio33
 

Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro. Also, you have no ability to use a local paddle to send cw.

I get into many cw contests and additionally operate the CWT's each week. It is impossible to run stations when you cannot hear a sidetone and when the latency between your keying and the radio actually sending the cw is such that the delay at even modest speeds of 15 to 20 wpm prevents you from holding a cq run frequency.

I have solved this by using a pair of RemotRig RRC-1258 boxes. One at the remote Flex 6600 and one at my operating position. This works across either the LAN or the WAN with the added ability to use any local paddle/keyer product you choose or the built in keyer that is provided in the RR boxes. The audio is perfect and provides the actual sidetone from the remote Flex radio. It is fast and works perfectly for daily and contest use.

If you are looking for a reliable solution to the sidetone issue this is just one of the options. It covers the audio (which by the way works for any audio that the remote Flex radio is providing). It covers the ability to key the radio directly in real time. It provides the ability to hear the sidetone virtually instantly (~1 MS) depending on your LAN/WAN connection. It provides the ability to use any keyer hardware you may have at your operating position./

Remote rig boxes are very available on the used market due to the fact that many modern rigs provide remote capabilities which supersedes the need for a box like RemoteRig.

I have all the proper configuration information for the devices. The physical setup is minimal with two simple connections to the Flex at the remote rig location(key and headphone jacks) and normal RR box installation at the operators side.

So, if you have a pair of unused RR boxes this is a great way to use them.

73's

Joe K8FC

-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 22:39
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?

+ AA6YQ comments below

I can hear the sidetone via speakers connected to the back of the 6400 if I am connected from 6400 to PC directly (via ethernet cable) but not if I am using it connected via the LAN and "away" from the 6400. No sidetone audio is generated to the laptop. I could turn up the sidetone volume to 100 and listen carefully from the other room . :)

+ I suggest that you engage with Flex Technical Support. Please post the results here.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Andrew OBrien
 

Jeff, I am talking about hearing the sidetone IF you are connected to the Flex via remote applications.

Andy 


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.

+ When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Jeff Schwartz
 

Andy,
I figured that out after the fact, late to the party again. Sorry.
Jeff

On May 29, 2022, at 11:46 AM, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.

+ When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ








dxradio33
 

Yes, I should have been a bit more specific. My view was towards using N1MM+ or any other application utilizing Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application. In addition , if you are using Commander and WW to send CW, your only choice is keyboard and you still have no access to a paddle if your radio is in a remote location on the LAN. Also, Commander and WinWarbler are not usable over the WAN. I did say below "when keying the radio using a virtual serial port created in CAT"
I am not advocating my suggestion only offering it as an alternative to the sidetone issue.

73,
Joe K8FC

-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 13:46
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?

+ AA6YQ comments below

Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.

+ When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:

My view was towards using N1MM+ or any other application utilizing Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application.
Look into K1EL's WKRemote and a second Winkeyer (even WK mini). I'm
not quite sure how the three (WKremote, 2 x Winkeyer and N1MM) would
work together but it should be possible.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:
Yes, I should have been a bit more specific. My view was towards using N1MM+ or any other application utilizing Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application. In addition , if you are using Commander and WW to send CW, your only choice is keyboard and you still have no access to a paddle if your radio is in a remote location on the LAN. Also, Commander and WinWarbler are not usable over the WAN. I did say below "when keying the radio using a virtual serial port created in CAT"
I am not advocating my suggestion only offering it as an alternative to the sidetone issue.
73,
Joe K8FC
-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 13:46
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?
+ AA6YQ comments below
Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.
+ When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ


CSM&#92;(r&#92;) Gary Huber - AB9M
 

I recently was testing a new WKmini and my old WK-USB with my 6600 and learned that WW does NOT require the Winkeyer to be connected via its USB or Serial port nor to the CW port on the back of the 6600. A valid port for the WK must be in the WW WK configuration. Obviously, there is no paddle break-in.

73,
Gary ~ AB9M

From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> on behalf of Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 4:20 PM
To: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?
 


On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:

> My view was towards using N1MM+  or any other application utilizing
 > Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application.

Look into K1EL's WKRemote and a second Winkeyer (even WK mini).  I'm
not quite sure how the three (WKremote, 2 x Winkeyer and N1MM) would
work together but it should be possible.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:
> Yes, I should have been a bit more specific.  My view was towards using N1MM+  or any other application utilizing Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application.  In addition , if you are using Commander and WW to send CW, your only choice is keyboard and you still have no access to a paddle if your radio is in a remote location on the LAN.  Also, Commander and WinWarbler are not usable over the WAN.  I did say below "when keying the radio using a virtual serial port created in CAT"
> I am not advocating my suggestion only offering it as an alternative to the sidetone issue.
>
> 73,
> Joe K8FC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 13:46
> To: DXLab@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?
>
> + AA6YQ comments below
>
> Sidetone is not conveyed to  SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT.  It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.
>
> + When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.
>
>           73,
>
>                 Dave, AA6YQ
>








dxradio33
 

Joe, the scenario you describe below will work just fine. (Although I cannot speak for WK mini) Just another way to do it. The problem however, is still the sidetone in the way you would probably use it in a contest environment and that and that would be probably wearing headphones. Local Winkeyer's will provide a sidetone but it is from piezo device within the box. Not quite what you want when you have earphones on. In addition, you need a windows computer running at the radio location to host WKRemote which adds more complexity and overhead to the equation. In any event , this does work but requires two Winkeyer's and PC's at both ends. I have personally done this with WKRemote but is still not satisfactory for quick exchanges over the WAN. The additional overhead of PtoP application plus latency = problematic operation at CW contesting speeds.

73's

Joe K8FC

-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 17:20
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?



On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:

My view was towards using N1MM+ or any other application utilizing
> Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application.

Look into K1EL's WKRemote and a second Winkeyer (even WK mini). I'm
not quite sure how the three (WKremote, 2 x Winkeyer and N1MM) would
work together but it should be possible.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2022-05-29 3:45 PM, dxradio33 wrote:
Yes, I should have been a bit more specific. My view was towards using N1MM+ or any other application utilizing Winkeyer connected via a serial port as the cw generating application. In addition , if you are using Commander and WW to send CW, your only choice is keyboard and you still have no access to a paddle if your radio is in a remote location on the LAN. Also, Commander and WinWarbler are not usable over the WAN. I did say below "when keying the radio using a virtual serial port created in CAT"
I am not advocating my suggestion only offering it as an alternative to the sidetone issue.

73,
Joe K8FC
-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io <DXLab@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 13:46
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] WW with Flex 6000 , sidetone ?

+ AA6YQ comments below

Sidetone is not conveyed to SmartSDR when keying the radio using a virtual serial port as created in CAT. It is only available if you use CWX keyboard keying feature of SmartSDR or a Maestro.

+ When WinWarbler is configured to send CW via "XCVR Ctrl App" and Commander is controlling a Flex Signature radio via a LAN, WinWarbler sends the text be transmitted to Commander, which conveys it to SmartSDR using the CWX command.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ