wsjt-x+jtalert+DXLab - an incomplete story ..


g4wjs
 

On 17/06/2021 05:00, HamApps Support (VK3AMA) wrote:
On 17/06/2021 1:48 pm, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
Yes, SpotCollector can interoperate with up to 16 instances of WSJT-X.

Is that done through using multicast UDP or unicast with unique ports for each WSJT-X instance?

de Laurie VK3AMA

Hi Laurie,

there is no need for multicast IP for that configuration, WSJT-X instances are always addressed on their own unique operating system ephemeral service port  number. Only the server (SC_WSJTX in this case) needs a well known port number (2237 by default) and as there is only one server there's no requirement to use multicast IP.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
Is that done through using multicast UDP or unicast with unique ports for each WSJT-X instance?

+ SpotCollector (actually, the SC_WSJX.exe "helper app") listens on 2237 using the Microsoft Winsock control, which does not support multicast. Each incoming message conveys the (ephemeral) address and port of the source WSJT-X instance, which uniquely identifies the client and enables UDP messages (like "set callsign color") to be sent to it. The user is not aware of the ephemeral ports; he or she configures each WSJT-X instance to communicate with port 2237 on the IP address of the machine that hosts SpotCollector. I found it necessary for the Winsock data arrival task to immediately parse and enqueue each message as it arrives, with a separate task dequeuing and processing messages.

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

 

 


HamApps Support (VK3AMA)
 

On 17/06/2021 1:48 pm, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
Yes, SpotCollector can interoperate with up to 16 instances of WSJT-X.

Is that done through using multicast UDP or unicast with unique ports for each WSJT-X instance?

de Laurie VK3AMA


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I should point out that the WSJT-X way of supporting multiple radios is to use multiple instances of WSJT-X, of course that gets complicated if using Commander for proxy rig control is required since only one instance of WSJT-X can expect to use Commander to control the DX Lab Suite primary rig.

+ Since there can be only one instance of Commander running on a computer, if you want multiple instances of WJST-X that each use Commander for transceiver control, then those instances of WSJT-X and Commander must each be hosted on a separate network-connected computers.

+ Alternatively, you can host multiple instanced of WXJT-X on a single computer, one that employs Commander for transceiver control, and the rest using WSJT-X's native transceiver control.

I don't know if SC_WSJTX and SpotCollector work with multiple instances of WSJT-X, I suspect they do as you have used plural terminology with respect to that.

+ Yes, SpotCollector can interoperate with up to 16 instances of WSJT-X.

There should be no problem with having one rig controlled by Commander one or more others each directly controlled by separate WSJT-X instances.

+ There is indeed no problem with that configuration.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

@ At minimum, automatically directly WSJT-X to change configurations
when a new transceiver is selected in Commander would be controlled
by a checkbox for each primary transceiver. Disabling all 4 of those
checkboxes would yield the behavior we have today.
I suppose I could rename my "HF-6M" configuration with the rig name
and have it selected when changing rigs. Would simply need to select
one of the alternate configurations after selecting the rig, if needed
(for example to chase a F/H station).

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-14 8:26 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
@ more AA6YQ comments below

The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match
> the radio name you specified in Commander".
That is problematic. For example, I have multiple configurations in WSJTX ... in particular, I already have a general HF/6M configuration,
a "hound" configuration, a meteor scatter (MSK144), configuration, a Q65 configuration (6m), an FST4 configuration for 160, and a VHF contest
configuration.
At the least, it would require some kind of blended configuration to support both transceiver selection and "operating/mode" selection.
@ At minimum, automatically directly WSJT-X to change configurations when a new transceiver is selected in Commander would be controlled by a checkbox for each primary transceiver. Disabling all 4 of those checkboxes would yield the behavior we have today. I don't know how to do better than that when there's not a one-to-one relationship between primary transceivers and WSJT-X Configurations.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

@ more AA6YQ comments below

The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match
> the radio name you specified in Commander".

That is problematic. For example, I have multiple configurations in WSJTX ... in particular, I already have a general HF/6M configuration,
a "hound" configuration, a meteor scatter (MSK144), configuration, a Q65 configuration (6m), an FST4 configuration for 160, and a VHF contest
configuration.


At the least, it would require some kind of blended configuration to support both transceiver selection and "operating/mode" selection.

@ At minimum, automatically directly WSJT-X to change configurations when a new transceiver is selected in Commander would be controlled by a checkbox for each primary transceiver. Disabling all 4 of those checkboxes would yield the behavior we have today. I don't know how to do better than that when there's not a one-to-one relationship between primary transceivers and WSJT-X Configurations.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-06-14 6:45 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match the radio name you specified in Commander".
Dave,

That is problematic. For example, I have multiple configurations in
WSJTX ... in particular, I already have a general HF/6M configuration,
a "hound" configuration, a meteor scatter (MSK144), configuration, a
Q65 configuration (6m), an FST4 configuration for 160, and a VHF contest
configuration.

At the least, it would require some kind of blended configuration to
support both transceiver selection and "operating/mode" selection.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-14 6:45 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below


that is certainly possible, UDP message SwitchConfiguration(14) will
switch a specified WSJT-X client to the named configuration if it exists.
It would need a rather loosely coupled setup where the user would be
responsible for creating the configurations that
Commander/SpotCollector/SC_WSJTX might switch to
+ Thanks Bill! I'll look for the SwitchConfiguration(14) documentation . The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match the radio name you specified in Commander".
73,
Dave, AA6YQ


g4wjs
 

On 14/06/2021 23:45, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below
that is certainly possible, UDP message SwitchConfiguration(14) will switch a specified WSJT-X client to the named configuration if it exists. It would need a rather loosely coupled setup where the user would be responsible for creating the configurations that Commander/SpotCollector/SC_WSJTX might switch to

+ Thanks Bill! I'll look for the SwitchConfiguration(14) documentation . The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match the radio name you specified in Commander".

         73,

                Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave,

the documentation is here: https://sourceforge.net/p/wsjt/wsjtx/ci/master/tree/Network/NetworkMessage.hpp#l470 .

I should point out that the WSJT-X way of supporting multiple radios is to use multiple instances of WSJT-X, of course that gets complicated if using Commander for proxy rig control is required since only one instance of WSJT-X can expect to use Commander to control the DX Lab Suite primary rig.

I don't know if SC_WSJTX and SpotCollector work with multiple instances of WSJT-X, I suspect they do as you have used plural terminology with respect to that. There should be no problem with having one rig controlled by Commander one or more others each directly controlled by separate WSJT-X instances. I know JTAlert supports such configurations and is able to route logged QSOs through to DXKeeper.

There are many possible ways to achieve multiple rig setups, users need to work out which has the least limitations for their desired modus operandi.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
that is certainly possible, UDP message SwitchConfiguration(14) will switch a specified WSJT-X client to the named configuration if it exists. It would need a rather loosely coupled setup where the user would be responsible for creating the configurations that Commander/SpotCollector/SC_WSJTX might switch to

+ Thanks Bill! I'll look for the SwitchConfiguration(14) documentation . The rule would be "name each radio configuration in WSJT-X to match the radio name you specified in Commander".

         73,

                Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Bill,

what are you hoping to gain over and above the existing Commander
multi-radio support that allows you to switch between a pre-configured
set of radios?
There are times that the sound device must be changed in concert with
changing the primary radio. At present, it is not possible to change
audio endpoints in WSJTX in concert with changing the primary radio
in Commander.

One must, at a minimum, create separate "Configurations" in WSJTX
(for each transceiver) and select the appropriate configuration
(audio endpoints) in WSJTX at the same time as one changes primary
radios in Commander. AA6YQ has resolved this issue for RTTY/PSK31
operation with WinWarbler by providing "multi-radio" support in
WinWarbler that selects audio endpoints (along with Winkey and PTT
port selection) based on the Primary transceiver selected in
Commander.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-06-14 6:22 PM, g4wjs wrote:
On 14/06/2021 22:52, Peter Laws / N5UWY wrote:
+ Conceptually, you could configure one instance of WSJT-X to use Commander to control one transceiver, and configure the second instance of WSJT-X to control your second transceiver directly.Whether any of the other plumbing can be made to work with this configuration, I can't say because you'd be outside the DXLab "one primary transceiver at a time" envelope.
I'm quite content to have different workspaces for the two radios and
was headed in that direction when W10 got me sidetracked.

What is the "easy" way to duplicate an existing workspace?  I'd like
to duplicate my "full" workspace that I use with my 746 to use with my
910.  I have another stripped down "lite" workspace that I use with
the 746 when I don't need (or want) PF, SC, WW, and CwGet, and MMTTY
and ... but just want Commander and DXKeeper and WSJT-X but for the
new workspace, I want to start with everything and then pare back.
Hi Peter,
what are you hoping to gain over and above the existing Commander multi-radio support that allows you to switch between a pre-configured set of radios? Just checking an radio name in a group of radio buttons seems far easier than switching workspaces.


g4wjs
 

On 14/06/2021 23:31, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below
what are you hoping to gain over and above the existing Commander multi-radio support that allows you to switch between a pre-configured set of radios? Just checking an radio name in a group of radio buttons seems far easier than switching workspaces.

+ It would be nice if selecting a primary transceiver in Commander caused WSJT-X to automatically choose the correct (pre-configured) configuration for that transceiver. That would require extending Commander to send a message to WSJT-X when the selected primary transceiver changes.

     73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave,

that is certainly possible, UDP message SwitchConfiguration(14) will switch a specified WSJT-X client to the named configuration if it exists. It would need a rather loosely coupled setup where the user would be responsible for creating the configurations that Commander/SpotCollector/SC_WSJTX might switch to.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
what are you hoping to gain over and above the existing Commander multi-radio support that allows you to switch between a pre-configured set of radios? Just checking an radio name in a group of radio buttons seems far easier than switching workspaces.

+ It would be nice if selecting a primary transceiver in Commander caused WSJT-X to automatically choose the correct (pre-configured) configuration for that transceiver. That would require extending Commander to send a message to WSJT-X when the selected primary transceiver changes.

     73,

             Dave, AA6YQ


g4wjs
 

On 14/06/2021 22:52, Peter Laws / N5UWY wrote:
+ Conceptually, you could configure one instance of WSJT-X to use Commander to control one transceiver, and configure the second instance of WSJT-X to control your second transceiver directly.Whether any of the other plumbing can be made to work with this configuration, I can't say because you'd be outside the DXLab "one primary transceiver at a time" envelope.
I'm quite content to have different workspaces for the two radios and
was headed in that direction when W10 got me sidetracked.

What is the "easy" way to duplicate an existing workspace?  I'd like
to duplicate my "full" workspace that I use with my 746 to use with my
910.  I have another stripped down "lite" workspace that I use with
the 746 when I don't need (or want) PF, SC, WW, and CwGet, and MMTTY
and ... but just want Commander and DXKeeper and WSJT-X but for the
new workspace, I want to start with everything and then pare back.

Hi Peter,

what are you hoping to gain over and above the existing Commander multi-radio support that allows you to switch between a pre-configured set of radios? Just checking an radio name in a group of radio buttons seems far easier than switching workspaces.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Dave AA6YQ
 

# more AA6YQ comments below

+ WinWarbler provides a multi-radio configuration window that enables you to specify the soundcard to be used with each primary transceiver.
Excellent! But no interaction with WSJT-X (or capability of FT-8) on its own, correct?

# Correct. WSJT-X could employ this technique, if desired.

+ Conceptually, you could configure one instance of WSJT-X to use Commander to control one transceiver, and configure the second instance of WSJT-X to control your second transceiver directly.Whether any of the other plumbing can be made to work with this configuration, I can't say because you'd be outside the DXLab "one primary transceiver at a time" envelope.
I'm quite content to have different workspaces for the two radios and
was headed in that direction when W10 got me sidetracked.

What is the "easy" way to duplicate an existing workspace?

# A Workspace is a folder that contains one file for each DXLab application, so you can simply copy a Workspace using Windows Explorer.

# Note that each of the files contained within a Workspace is a .reg file that contains Windows Registry settings. If in Windows Explorer you click on the entry for a .reg file, the settings stored in that file will be loaded into the Windows Registry - so be careful when working with Workspace folders in Windows Explorer.

     73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Peter Laws / N5UWY
 

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:26 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

+ If the application you're starting requires command line arguments, you must employ a batch file.

Well ... OK ... but usually when I do something in a way that I think
seems convoluted I end up finding out that I just missed that page in
the docs. Amazed I got it right straight away. :-) Batch files are
fine - thank you!


+ WinWarbler provides a multi-radio configuration window that enables you to specify the soundcard to be used with each primary transceiver.
Excellent! But no interaction with WSJT-X (or capability of FT-8) on
its own, correct?


+ Conceptually, you could configure one instance of WSJT-X to use Commander to control one transceiver, and configure the second instance of WSJT-X to control your second transceiver directly.Whether any of the other plumbing can be made to work with this configuration, I can't say because you'd be outside the DXLab "one primary transceiver at a time" envelope.
I'm quite content to have different workspaces for the two radios and
was headed in that direction when W10 got me sidetracked.

What is the "easy" way to duplicate an existing workspace? I'd like
to duplicate my "full" workspace that I use with my 746 to use with my
910. I have another stripped down "lite" workspace that I use with
the 746 when I don't need (or want) PF, SC, WW, and CwGet, and MMTTY
and ... but just want Commander and DXKeeper and WSJT-X but for the
new workspace, I want to start with everything and then pare back.


Thank you, as always!





--
Peter Laws | N5UWY | plaws plaws net | Travel by Train!


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
The only thing I thought was an anomaly is that I couldn't put <
C:\apps\HamApps\JTAlert\JTAlert.exe /wsjtx > in the "Apps Started
After DXLab Apps" slot directly and had to hide that in a bat file.
That seemed odd but it worked and I never worried about it.

So Q1 is, is that really a thing or can I avoid calling a very short batch file?
+ If the application you're starting requires command line arguments, you must employ a batch file.
Then it gets more complicated. I finally got my break-out-box working
(if not finished) for my IC-910. I can run two radios with Commander
(and have in the past). Occasionally all the pieces stop playing well
with each other but I think that has more to do with the two USB-CI-V
adapters ... and the 2 USB sound devices (and now a 3rd for the 910)
... and the two Morttys (CW, RTTY) ... and the two USB cameras ... and
the USB headset. Occasionally Windows 10 just says "hold my beer
...".

ANYway, where it gets complicated is that the two radios need two
audio paths (a sound device for each) and there is no multi-radio
setup that I can see in WSJT-X that would handle that. WSJT-X works
well with Commander and all the logging works, etc, etc, but sound is
not what Commander does.
+ WinWarbler provides a multi-radio configuration window that enables you to specify the soundcard to be used with each primary transceiver.
So googling around, I see that WSJT-X does support a "--rig-name=xxx"
argument at startup. This will surely let me run two radios with two
configs (though probably not at the same time and that's OK). I
tried that (outside DXLab) and it created the new dirs with the rig
name as part of the directory name. I realized that it had NONE of my
previous WSJT-X set up so renamed the new dir to something else,
changed the name of my existing dirs to include what --rig-name
created, grepped the files and updated paths as needed using the newly
created by --rig-name files as a guide and that part seems to work. I
have yet to do the same for the IC-910, but will at some point.

Unless you all think I will be able to run both radios simultaneously
with WSJT-X running for both (their CI-V channels are separate as are
their audio paths), then I think I will need to create a new Workspace
for 910. Workspaces don't scare me - I have a bunch since I am a club
callsign trustee plus another one for LW/MW/SW DXing.

But I am back to the Launcher problem in that I can't seem to put an
argument to WSJT-X in the after-apps slot just like I couldn't with
JTAlert. I guess Q2 is really the same as Q1!

As for JTAlert, I *do* see the page in the DXLab wiki and am currently
studying that to see what I have missed when it comes to integrating
that part of the system. I think that's independent of what I have
described above.

+ Commander can only control on primary transceiver at a time.

+ Conceptually, you could configure one instance of WSJT-X to use Commander to control one transceiver, and configure the second instance of WSJT-X to control your second transceiver directly.Whether any of the other plumbing can be made to work with this configuration, I can't say because you'd be outside the DXLab "one primary transceiver at a time" envelope.

      73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Peter Laws / N5UWY
 

Happily using DXLab+wsjt-x+jtalert for FT-8 (which, as we know, is not
Real Ham Radio™).

All works fine with my IC-746Pro.

The only thing I thought was an anomaly is that I couldn't put <
C:\apps\HamApps\JTAlert\JTAlert.exe /wsjtx > in the "Apps Started
After DXLab Apps" slot directly and had to hide that in a bat file.
That seemed odd but it worked and I never worried about it.

So Q1 is, is that really a thing or can I avoid calling a very short batch file?

Then it gets more complicated. I finally got my break-out-box working
(if not finished) for my IC-910. I can run two radios with Commander
(and have in the past). Occasionally all the pieces stop playing well
with each other but I think that has more to do with the two USB-CI-V
adapters ... and the 2 USB sound devices (and now a 3rd for the 910)
... and the two Morttys (CW, RTTY) ... and the two USB cameras ... and
the USB headset. Occasionally Windows 10 just says "hold my beer
...".

ANYway, where it gets complicated is that the two radios need two
audio paths (a sound device for each) and there is no multi-radio
setup that I can see in WSJT-X that would handle that. WSJT-X works
well with Commander and all the logging works, etc, etc, but sound is
not what Commander does.

So googling around, I see that WSJT-X does support a "--rig-name=xxx"
argument at startup. This will surely let me run two radios with two
configs (though probably not at the same time and that's OK). I
tried that (outside DXLab) and it created the new dirs with the rig
name as part of the directory name. I realized that it had NONE of my
previous WSJT-X set up so renamed the new dir to something else,
changed the name of my existing dirs to include what --rig-name
created, grepped the files and updated paths as needed using the newly
created by --rig-name files as a guide and that part seems to work. I
have yet to do the same for the IC-910, but will at some point.

Unless you all think I will be able to run both radios simultaneously
with WSJT-X running for both (their CI-V channels are separate as are
their audio paths), then I think I will need to create a new Workspace
for 910. Workspaces don't scare me - I have a bunch since I am a club
callsign trustee plus another one for LW/MW/SW DXing.

But I am back to the Launcher problem in that I can't seem to put an
argument to WSJT-X in the after-apps slot just like I couldn't with
JTAlert. I guess Q2 is really the same as Q1!

As for JTAlert, I *do* see the page in the DXLab wiki and am currently
studying that to see what I have missed when it comes to integrating
that part of the system. I think that's independent of what I have
described above.




73,
Peter Laws
N5UWY
DXCC / VUCC / WAS / WAC
Net Manager, ARRL Oklahoma Section
SCARS Exam Team Leader - https://w5nor.org/
Editor, DX Downstairs, LWCA's The LOWDOWN
Editor, DX Worldwide/Tropical Band DX, IRCA's DX Monitor <-- Coming soon!
CIDX / TAPR / OKDXA
Join a radio club! Ask me how!