Serial Port RTS Error upon startup Commander


Saad Mahaini
 

Hi Dave

I have run commander configured for multiple radios

When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then  decide what radio to use, etc 

when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message


I learned to check "no", but sometimes if im distracted and not thinking (seems to happen often lately) i select "Yes", then later when i try to use that radio, i go in circles trying to figure out why things are not behaving normal till i eventually end up going into the Config and changing the RTS flag to "X" in my case for things to work again  

My question is why is this error message relevant, and is it even necessary to flag upon start up? In another word why does it even think that it should be on in the first place, since its a parameter that can be configured different ways depends on personal configuration, setup, etc.  Or is it a configuration conflict that is specific to my setup?

73 Saad N5FF


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I have run commander configured for multiple radios

When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then decide what radio to use, etc

when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message

Inline image

+ Attachments are not conveyed here. What is the text of the error message?

+ What make and model transceivers are you using?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Saad Mahaini
 

Hi Dave

its


'''
CI-V Commander

the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?

Yes or no Buttons options

''''''

Radios

Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2
Radio 3 TS-2000X direct

73 Saad N5FF


On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 3:55:52 PM CDT, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:


+ AA6YQ comments below

I have run commander configured for multiple radios

When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then  decide what radio to use, etc

when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message

Inline image

+ Attachments are not conveyed here. What is the text of the error message?

+ What make and model transceivers are you using?


      73,


                Dave, AA6YQ







Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

its

'''
CI-V Commander

the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?

Yes or no Buttons options

''''''


Radios

Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3

Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2
Radio 3 TS-2000X direct

+ Thanks, Saad. Both your FT-2000 and your TS-2000 require RTS to be enabled. Failure to properly configure setting in Commander this is a "hole" that new users who don't read the appropriate section of "Getting Started with DXLab" fall into, so if either is your primary transceiver but the Primary CAT Serial Port's RTS selector is not set to "on", then the "reminder" is displayed.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Saad,

Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3
With a microHAM interface, set RTS to "N" (No) or "X" (high
on transmit - hardware PTT).

microHAM interfaces *DO NOT* support RTS to the transceiver.
MK, MK II and MK III handle RTS from the processor for rigs
that require handshake. DK/DKII/USB II/USB III provide a
pull-up to +12 or +5V (RTS = Always On) for transceivers
that require RTS.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-28 5:22 PM, Saad Mahaini via groups.io wrote:
Hi Dave
its
'''
CI-V Commander
the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?
Yes or no Buttons options
''''''
Radios
Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3 TS-2000X direct
73 Saad N5FF
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 3:55:52 PM CDT, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below
I have run commander configured for multiple radios
When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then  decide what radio to use, etc
when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message
Inline image
+ Attachments are not conveyed here. What is the text of the error message?
+ What make and model transceivers are you using?
      73,
                Dave, AA6YQ


Saad Mahaini
 

Thanks Joe

That's exactly the issue.

I set them per the micro-ham document that you have posted for MK2 &3, so mine are both set to "X" and they work fine

However, per Dave's comment, commander expects them to be set for "yes" thus automatically flags me with the reminder upon every startup.

73 Saad
 



On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 6:20:10 PM CDT, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:



Saad,

> Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
> Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3

With a microHAM interface, set RTS to "N" (No) or "X" (high
on transmit - hardware PTT).

microHAM interfaces *DO NOT* support RTS to the transceiver.
MK, MK II and MK III handle RTS from the processor for rigs
that require handshake.  DK/DKII/USB II/USB III provide a
pull-up to +12 or +5V (RTS = Always On) for transceivers
that require RTS.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-28 5:22 PM, Saad Mahaini via groups.io wrote:
>  Hi Dave
> its
>
>
> '''
> CI-V Commander
> the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?
>
> Yes or no Buttons options
>
> ''''''
>
> Radios
> Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
> Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3 TS-2000X direct
>
> 73 Saad N5FF
>
>
>      On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 3:55:52 PM CDT, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:

>  + AA6YQ comments below
>
> I have run commander configured for multiple radios
>
> When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then  decide what radio to use, etc
>
> when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message
>
> Inline image
>
> + Attachments are not conveyed here. What is the text of the error message?
>
> + What make and model transceivers are you using?
>
>        73,
>
>                  Dave, AA6YQ
>








Saad Mahaini
 

Thanks Dave

The issue is when i set it to "Y", it does not work, so it has to be set to "X" in my case

Per Joe's reply "I just responded to" sounds like MK configuration requirement as i followed their document on how to set up with DX Lab , which sound to be opposite for RTS setting.

But i can also see your logic which is based on interfacing directly to the radio and not having other device in between

Thanks again

73 Saad




On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 4:38:54 PM CDT, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:


+ AA6YQ comments below

its

'''
CI-V Commander

the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?

Yes or no Buttons options

''''''


Radios

Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3

Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2
Radio 3 TS-2000X direct

+ Thanks, Saad. Both your FT-2000 and your TS-2000 require RTS to be enabled. Failure to properly configure setting in Commander this is a "hole" that new users who don't read the appropriate section of "Getting Started with DXLab" fall into, so if either is your primary transceiver but the Primary CAT Serial Port's RTS selector is not set to "on", then the "reminder" is displayed.

      73,

              Dave, AA6YQ







Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-04-28 7:42 PM, Saad Mahaini via groups.io wrote:
However, per Dave's comment, commander expects them to be set for "yes" thus automatically flags me with the reminder upon every startup.
I disagree with Dave for his "nanny" prompt. Users have been
placing a jumper between RTS and CTS ("fake handshake") with
Kenwood rigs ever since Kenwood started providing serial control.
It's even documented in the ARRL Handbooks of the 1980s. That
allows the use of RTS for PTT and DTR for CW on the same port as
radio control - something that contest software has made use of
since CT, NA and TR under DOS (late 1970s and early 1980s).

The problem is that new licensees don't bother to learn anything
about their equipment or software and expect everything tied up
with a bow and handed to them on a silver platter. Heck, there
are a lot of old-timers who can't be bothered to read manuals
or help files any more (and are *proud* of it).

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-28 7:42 PM, Saad Mahaini via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Joe
That's exactly the issue.
I set them per the micro-ham document that you have posted for MK2 &3, so mine are both set to "X" and they work fine
However, per Dave's comment, commander expects them to be set for "yes" thus automatically flags me with the reminder upon every startup.
73 Saad
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 6:20:10 PM CDT, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@subich.com> wrote:
Saad,

> Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
> Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3
With a microHAM interface, set RTS to "N" (No) or "X" (high
on transmit - hardware PTT).
microHAM interfaces *DO NOT* support RTS to the transceiver.
MK, MK II and MK III handle RTS from the processor for rigs
that require handshake.  DK/DKII/USB II/USB III provide a
pull-up to +12 or +5V (RTS = Always On) for transceivers
that require RTS.
73,
    ... Joe, W4TV
On 2021-04-28 5:22 PM, Saad Mahaini via groups.io wrote:
  Hi Dave
its


'''
CI-V Commander
the transceiver has not responded, and the serial port's RTS signal is not set to 'on" , which this transceiver typically requires; set the RTS signal to 'on"?

Yes or no Buttons options

''''''

Radios
Radio 1 IC-7600 via Microham MK-3
Radio 2 FT-2000 via MK-2Radio 3 TS-2000X direct

73 Saad N5FF


      On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 3:55:52 PM CDT, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@ambersoft.com> wrote:
  + AA6YQ comments below

I have run commander configured for multiple radios

When i launch Commander, i in most cases only have one radio turned on or even none, as i sometimes start the program then  decide what radio to use, etc

when i don't have the Icom radio (Happens to be the first one of the three in Commander ) even if a different radio i selected from previous session, I get the error message

Inline image

+ Attachments are not conveyed here. What is the text of the error message?

+ What make and model transceivers are you using?

        73,

                  Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
I disagree with Dave for his "nanny" prompt. 

+ That prompt has saved me a ton of time reviewing screen shots and errorlog.txt files in order to determine why a new user can't get Commander configured to control his or her Kenwood or Yaesu transceiver. The time saved went to implementing new capabilities. Some new users might have abandoned DXLab rather than seek help here.

+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam "RTS must be N" interface is involved?

       73,

              Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam "RTS must be N" interface is involved?
It's not "RTS must be N". It can be anything but typically RTS=Y
will lock the rig in transmit if the user is using RTS for PTT and
RTS=HANDSHAKE will lock up CAT software expecting a response on
CTS.

All of the microHAM "keyer" interfaces (CW Keyer, DigiKeyer, DigiKeyer
II, microKEYER, microKEYER II, microKEYER III, MK2R+) *require* hardware
PTT in order to perform sound card/mic audio switching and/or provide
(timed) PTT to an amplifier.

If the owner has enabled a "control" port in microHAM USB Device Router
Commander can poll that port (Ports -> SO2R Serial Port) using the
microHAM Control Protocol. The VS; command will identify the device in
the first two characters following the VS in the response. *HOWEVER*
the microHAM Control Protocol is not applicable to USB Interface II,
USB Interface III or DXP.

In addition, polling for a microHAM interface does not resolve the issue
with the hundreds of other CT/NA compatible interfaces (including MFJ!
and some Rigblaster models).

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-28 8:37 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below


I disagree with Dave for his "nanny" prompt.
+ That prompt has saved me a ton of time reviewing screen shots and errorlog.txt files in order to determine why a new user can't get Commander configured to control his or her Kenwood or Yaesu transceiver. The time saved went to implementing new capabilities. Some new users might have abandoned DXLab rather than seek help here.
+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam "RTS must be N" interface is involved?
73,
Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

@ more AA6YQ comments below

+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam
> "RTS must be N" interface is involved?

It's not "RTS must be N". It can be anything but typically RTS=Y
will lock the rig in transmit if the user is using RTS for PTT and
RTS=HANDSHAKE will lock up CAT software expecting a response on
CTS.

All of the microHAM "keyer" interfaces (CW Keyer, DigiKeyer, DigiKeyer
II, microKEYER, microKEYER II, microKEYER III, MK2R+) *require* hardware
PTT in order to perform sound card/mic audio switching and/or provide
(timed) PTT to an amplifier.

If the owner has enabled a "control" port in microHAM USB Device Router
Commander can poll that port (Ports -> SO2R Serial Port) using the
microHAM Control Protocol. The VS; command will identify the device in
the first two characters following the VS in the response. *HOWEVER*
the microHAM Control Protocol is not applicable to USB Interface II,
USB Interface III or DXP.

In addition, polling for a microHAM interface does not resolve the issue
with the hundreds of other CT/NA compatible interfaces (including MFJ!
and some Rigblaster models).

@ Thanks, Joe. Doing something interface-specific doesn't appear feasible.

@ I should have noted that Commander only displays the warning message if

1. the radio is a Kenwood or Yaesu that requires RTS to be asserted

@ and

2. Commander's RTS selector is not set to "On"

@ and

3. Commander doesn't receive CAT data from the Primary CAT port for 5 seconds after the radio is selected as the primary transceiver

@ It's the third requirement that has prevented an avalanche of microHam interface users from complaining about the warning message.

@ Saad, why would your primary transceiver not respond within 5 seconds of being selected?

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


g4wjs
 

On 29/04/2021 04:39, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
@ more AA6YQ comments below

+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam 
 > "RTS must be N" interface is involved?

It's not "RTS must be N".  It can be anything but typically RTS=Y
will lock the rig in transmit if the user is using RTS for PTT and
RTS=HANDSHAKE will lock up CAT software expecting a response on
CTS.

All of the microHAM "keyer" interfaces (CW Keyer, DigiKeyer, DigiKeyer
II, microKEYER, microKEYER II, microKEYER III, MK2R+) *require* hardware
PTT in order to perform sound card/mic audio switching and/or provide
(timed) PTT to an amplifier.

If the owner has enabled a "control" port in microHAM USB Device Router
Commander can poll that port (Ports -> SO2R Serial  Port) using the
microHAM Control Protocol. The VS; command will identify the device in
the first two characters following the VS in the response.  *HOWEVER*
the microHAM Control Protocol is not applicable to USB Interface II,
USB Interface III or DXP.

In addition, polling for a microHAM interface does not resolve the issue
with the hundreds of other CT/NA compatible interfaces (including MFJ!
and some Rigblaster models).

@ Thanks, Joe. Doing something interface-specific doesn't appear feasible.

@ I should have noted that Commander only displays the warning message if

1. the radio is a Kenwood or Yaesu that requires RTS to be asserted

@ and

2. Commander's RTS selector is not set to "On"

@ and

3. Commander doesn't receive CAT data from the Primary CAT port for 5 seconds after the radio is selected as the primary transceiver

@ It's the third requirement that has prevented an avalanche of microHam interface users from complaining about the warning message.

@ Saad, why would your primary transceiver not respond within 5 seconds of being selected?

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave,

I think Saad answered your last question in his OP, i.e. the rig may be turned off. How about a pop up question if your conditions above would lead to an error message, when multiple rigs are configured, that offers to switch to a different configured rig. While that blocks the user can decide which rig to turn on.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Saad Mahaini
 

Hi Dave

Sorry for not responding earlier, wanted first to sit behind the radios and run few scenarios

This only happens with the Yaesu and Kenwood radios.  

The Icom (Via MK3) does not do it.  In another word, i can start commander, with the Icom radio already preselected,  while the Icom radio is off, and not get the warning message.

If i do the same as above with the Yaesu (Via MK2) or Kenwood (Direct) , while the appropriate radio is preselected in Commander.  I get the warning if the radio is off when i launch Commander, i don't get the warning if the radio is on when i launch commander

 I have both Yaesu and Icom with RTS selected as "X" and hey work fine

For the Kenwood, i have to have "RTS" set as yes for commander to communicate with it

Now you may ask why do you start Commander before you start the radio, which can be an easy fix by reversing the sequence.  The problem is that one radio may had been selected when i terminated Commander last time, and next time i want to operate this will happen if i choose to turn on a different radio than preselected or if i plain forgot (happens alot)  what last radio i used and turn on a different radio, either case will trigger this issue and i have no precautions 

Its really not a huge issue except that its annoying, plus as i mentioned before if i accidently click "yes" i will usually spend the next hour chasing my tail and spinning my wheels trying to figure out why the radio is stuck in TX or some weird behavior like that till i remember to go to Config and revert to "X"

 Thanks again for all your help

73 Saad N5FF



On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 05:26:03 AM CDT, g4wjs <bill.8@...> wrote:


On 29/04/2021 04:39, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
@ more AA6YQ comments below

+ Joe, is there a way that Commander can determine that a microHam 
 > "RTS must be N" interface is involved?

It's not "RTS must be N".  It can be anything but typically RTS=Y
will lock the rig in transmit if the user is using RTS for PTT and
RTS=HANDSHAKE will lock up CAT software expecting a response on
CTS.

All of the microHAM "keyer" interfaces (CW Keyer, DigiKeyer, DigiKeyer
II, microKEYER, microKEYER II, microKEYER III, MK2R+) *require* hardware
PTT in order to perform sound card/mic audio switching and/or provide
(timed) PTT to an amplifier.

If the owner has enabled a "control" port in microHAM USB Device Router
Commander can poll that port (Ports -> SO2R Serial  Port) using the
microHAM Control Protocol. The VS; command will identify the device in
the first two characters following the VS in the response.  *HOWEVER*
the microHAM Control Protocol is not applicable to USB Interface II,
USB Interface III or DXP.

In addition, polling for a microHAM interface does not resolve the issue
with the hundreds of other CT/NA compatible interfaces (including MFJ!
and some Rigblaster models).

@ Thanks, Joe. Doing something interface-specific doesn't appear feasible.

@ I should have noted that Commander only displays the warning message if

1. the radio is a Kenwood or Yaesu that requires RTS to be asserted

@ and

2. Commander's RTS selector is not set to "On"

@ and

3. Commander doesn't receive CAT data from the Primary CAT port for 5 seconds after the radio is selected as the primary transceiver

@ It's the third requirement that has prevented an avalanche of microHam interface users from complaining about the warning message.

@ Saad, why would your primary transceiver not respond within 5 seconds of being selected?

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave,

I think Saad answered your last question in his OP, i.e. the rig may be turned off. How about a pop up question if your conditions above would lead to an error message, when multiple rigs are configured, that offers to switch to a different configured rig. While that blocks the user can decide which rig to turn on.


--
73

Bill

G4WJS.


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Sorry for not responding earlier, wanted first to sit behind the radios and run few scenarios

This only happens with the Yaesu and Kenwood radios.

The Icom (Via MK3) does not do it. In another word, i can start commander, with the Icom radio already preselected, while the Icom radio is off, and not get the warning message.

If i do the same as above with the Yaesu (Via MK2) or Kenwood (Direct) , while the appropriate radio is preselected in Commander. I get the warning if the radio is off when i launch Commander, i don't get the warning if the radio is on when i launch commander

I have both Yaesu and Icom with RTS selected as "X" and hey work fine

For the Kenwood, i have to have "RTS" set as yes for commander to communicate with it

Now you may ask why do you start Commander before you start the radio, which can be an easy fix by reversing the sequence. The problem is that one radio may had been selected when i terminated Commander last time, and next time i want to operate this will happen if i choose to turn on a different radio than preselected or if i plain forgot (happens alot) what last radio i used and turn on a different radio, either case will trigger this issue and i have no precautions

Its really not a huge issue except that its annoying, plus as i mentioned before if i accidently click "yes" i will usually spend the next hour chasing my tail and spinning my wheels trying to figure out why the radio is stuck in TX or some weird behavior like that till i remember to go to Config and revert to "X"

+ Thanks, Saad.

+ So the scenario is

1. You're using a radio that when directly connected requires RTS to be set to 'On'

+ but

2. You're using an interface that require RTS to not be set to 'On'

+ and

3. You sometimes direct Commander to select that radio while that radio is not powered on

+ so

4. After 5 seconds, Commander notices that it has not received any data from the radio and displays a warning noting that RTS is not set to "On" and asking if you want it enabled

+ but

5. You sometimes erroneously click "Yes", which when you power up the radio puts it in "transmit" mode until you set the RTS Selector to "TX"


+ I have sent you a new version of Commander that in the above scenario will only display the warning if RTS is set to "Off". Since you have RTS set to "TX", the warning will not appear in step 4. This preserves the warning for new users who have left the RTS selector in its default state of "Off".

73,

Dave, AA6YQ