Topics

60mtrs in DXView?


Brian Bowers G0VAX
 

Hi Dave,
Would it be possible to add 60Mtrs to the DXView Info tables?
I find it so useful when querying worked or confirmed band/mode spots.

Best Wishes

Brian G0VAX


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Dave has previously indicated that 60 M would not be added to DXView
or the real time progress tables until the US has a real "band" (as
opposed to five discrete channels) and ARRL adds a single band 60 M
award to the DXCC program.

To paraphrase his comments, 60 meters is not suitable for DXing given
the current allocations and sharing requirements.

In the meantime, one can filter the log for 60 M QSOs and run a
DXCC Progress report on the filtered log. If that is being done
often, it is relatively easy to create a script to automate the
process.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-05-21 1:06 PM, Brian Bowers G0VAX wrote:
Hi Dave,
Would it be possible to add 60Mtrs to the DXView Info tables?
I find it so useful when querying worked or confirmed band/mode spots.
Best Wishes
Brian G0VAX


Dave / NR1DX
 

Be that as it may I now have 122 countries worked and 113 confirmed 0n 60M.  I only need 6 more states to have WAS on 60M. Looks like a "real"  band to me 8^)

Dave
NR1DX

On 5/21/2020 2:46 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

Dave has previously indicated that 60 M would not be added to DXView
or the real time progress tables until the US has a real "band" (as
opposed to five discrete channels) and ARRL adds a single band 60 M
award to the DXCC program.

To paraphrase his comments, 60 meters is not suitable for DXing given
the current allocations and sharing requirements.

In the meantime, one can filter the log for 60 M QSOs and run a
DXCC Progress report on the filtered log.  If that is being done
often, it is relatively easy to create a script to automate the
process.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-05-21 1:06 PM, Brian Bowers G0VAX wrote:
Hi Dave,
Would it be possible to add 60Mtrs to the DXView Info tables?
I find it so useful when querying worked or confirmed band/mode spots.

Best Wishes

Brian G0VAX


--
Dave
Manuals@ArtekManuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Would it be possible to add 60Mtrs to the DXView Info tables?

+ It is certainly possible, but I will not do so: I agree with the ARRL that 60m is too narrow a band for DXing (which is why QSOs on 60m don't count for DXCC awards), and so will do nothing to encourage its use for DXing.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


wb6bee
 

ARRL will not address 60 meters until there are statistics to value it's use.  NR1DX's comments are valid.   If DXab, or some some other recording mechanism, could accumulate statistics on the value and utilization of 60 meters, then (perhaps) ARRL would pay attention.  I have sent multiple emails, only to the the "atta boy" response.

We all know the channels are stupid, but it is what we have.   Doesn't mean that there is not a DX challenge out there to make something happen   Easy is not fun or interesting.

IMHO

Don
WB6BEE



Joe Subich, W4TV
 

60 Meter channels in the US are shared with *GOVERNMENT* Users who
are the primary users of those frequencies.

The Amateur rules are written specifically to make it easy for those
*PRIMARY* users to clear out interfering stations. How easy do you
thing it is for typically untrained government operators to clear out
a DX pile-up?

DXing on 60 meters is liddish in the first degree. Frankly, I'm
surprised that NTIA hasn't told the FCC to get the amateurs off
the channels based on some of what I've heard.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-05-21 10:05 PM, wb6bee wrote:
ARRL will not address 60 meters until there are statistics to value it's use.  NR1DX's comments are valid.   If DXab, or some some other recording mechanism, could accumulate statistics on the value and utilization of 60 meters, then (perhaps) ARRL would pay attention.  I have sent multiple emails, only to the the "atta boy" response.
We all know the channels are stupid, but it is what we have.   Doesn't mean that there is not a DX challenge out there to make something happen   Easy is not fun or interesting.
IMHO
Don
WB6BEE


aart wedemeijer PA3C
 

To add to the discussion: ARRL (or USA) is not the centre of the world.
Currently there are more than 180 DXCC's active on 60M, not only with 4 channels but with good bandwidth & modes.



73,

Aart PA3C


Barry Murrell ZS2EZ
 

It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the World when it comes to 60m…. even South Africa (which is normally VERY slow to adopt changes due to a convoluted Regulatory process) has had the allocation agreed to INTERNATIONALLY 5 years ago at our disposal for some time now!!!

 

I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015 Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out of sync with the rest of the world on this!

 

Additionally, DXing is not restricted to FCC regulations or the ARRL’s awards – Dxing is not ONLY restricted to DXCC, DXing is the thrill of making contact with distant places, testing one’s station and operating abilities in different modes of operation. As I have expressed before on this forum, our 60m band here in ZS is certainly wide enough for DXing…. As it is in other countries too!!

 

That said, DXLab is essentially American software written by an American author, and is provided as a service to the Amateur community – we should all acknowledge that it is Dave’s undisputed right to decide what bands to support in this software, and respect his decision unequivocally. There are many ways to keep track of one’s “totals” on 60m (I am currently on 91 worked!)…. Dave has provided scripts for following entity totals and States worked (incidentally for the paper chasers  the 60 Meters Online guys - http://www.60metersonline.com/index.html - offer awards for 60m operations) so the fact that DXView does not include Realtime tracking should not deter one from trying the band…. Just remember to stay within the Regulations applicable to your location!!

 

Enjoy DX …. And respect each other’s views and choices!!  (In my case I don’t work 160m – a 40-60dB permanent noise level makes it futile!!)

 

73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ

KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa

EPC#0558 DMC#1690  30MDG#4081

DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)

DXCC(mixed)#41,146  DXCC(RTTY)#1,916

DXCC(phone)#34,990  DXCC(CW)#11,714

DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m   5BDXCC#8,916

WAS Triple Play #492  WAS(RTTY)#538  WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8

WAZ(RTTY)#185  WAE-I(mixed)#72  WAZS(mixed)#214  AAA#1569

AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334  UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75  UKSMG AFRICA#22  WAC (Satellite)

website : www.zs2ez.co.za

 

From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of wb6bee
Sent: Friday, 22 May 2020 04:05
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] 60mtrs in DXView?

 

ARRL will not address 60 meters until there are statistics to value it's use.  NR1DX's comments are valid.   If DXab, or some some other recording mechanism, could accumulate statistics on the value and utilization of 60 meters, then (perhaps) ARRL would pay attention.  I have sent multiple emails, only to the the "atta boy" response.

We all know the channels are stupid, but it is what we have.   Doesn't mean that there is not a DX challenge out there to make something happen   Easy is not fun or interesting.

IMHO

Don
WB6BEE


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

To add to the discussion: ARRL (or USA) is not the centre of the world.

+ I didn’t say that the ARRL or the USA are the center of the world.

+ I said that I agree with the ARRL's view that 60m is too narrow a band for DXing.

+ I also noted that the DXCC award program -- which is the world's pre-eminent DXing award program -- does not accept 60m QSOs.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Dave / NR1DX
 

Bravo !!!

Dave
NR1DX

On 5/22/2020 1:38 AM, aart wedemeijer PA3C wrote:
To add to the discussion: ARRL (or USA) is not the centre of the world.
Currently there are more than 180 DXCC's active on 60M, not only with 4 channels but with good bandwidth & modes.



73,

Aart PA3C
pa3c.wordpress.com <http://pa3c.wordpress.com>;
--
Dave
Manuals@ArtekManuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Henk Remijn PA5KT
 

That a band is secondary and used by the government is not a reason.

Most of the secondary bands are in DXCC.

If ARRL finds 60m allocation is to small to have DX pile ups, I agree.

Would time they should work on that and make it an useful band for USA amateurs.

73 Henk PA5KT

Op 22-5-2020 om 04:29 schreef Joe Subich, W4TV:


60 Meter channels in the US are shared with *GOVERNMENT* Users who
are the primary users of those frequencies.

The Amateur rules are written specifically to make it easy for those
*PRIMARY* users to clear out interfering stations.  How easy do you
thing it is for typically untrained government operators to clear out
a DX pile-up?

DXing on 60 meters is liddish in the first degree. Frankly, I'm
surprised that NTIA hasn't told the FCC to get the amateurs off
the channels based on some of what I've heard.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-05-21 10:05 PM, wb6bee wrote:
ARRL will not address 60 meters until there are statistics to value it's use.  NR1DX's comments are valid.   If DXab, or some some other recording mechanism, could accumulate statistics on the value and utilization of 60 meters, then (perhaps) ARRL would pay attention.  I have sent multiple emails, only to the the "atta boy" response.

We all know the channels are stupid, but it is what we have.  Doesn't mean that there is not a DX challenge out there to make something happen   Easy is not fun or interesting.

IMHO

Don
WB6BEE



Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the
World when it comes to 60m….
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda
when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015
Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the
section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way
YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the
band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As
the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out
of sync with the rest of the world on this!
I have no disagreement with you on the regulatory arguments. ARRL have
had their collective heads where the sun don't shine for many years
regarding not only 5 MHz but also "wideband digital" modes (e.g.,
WinLink/PACTOR modes). I personally suspect the two are related in that
some ARRL "insiders" would like to give the quasi-commercial operations
priority on any "new" band in that spectrum as it posses ideal qualities
for 24x7 traffic.

That notwithstanding, the Realtime Award Tracking (RAT) of "entities" in
DXView, DXKeeper, and SpotCollector is for DXCC - not WAE or any other
awards explicitly covered in DXKeeper's "Check Progress" tab. Since
the RAT support is inextricably linked to the DXCC program there is
(IMO) no justification for spending the development cycles to diverge
RAT from DXCC.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the World when it comes to 60m…. even South Africa (which is normally VERY slow to adopt changes due to a convoluted Regulatory process) has had the allocation agreed to INTERNATIONALLY 5 years ago at our disposal for some time now!!!
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015 Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out of sync with the rest of the world on this!
Additionally, DXing is not restricted to FCC regulations or the ARRL’s awards – Dxing is not ONLY restricted to DXCC, DXing is the thrill of making contact with distant places, testing one’s station and operating abilities in different modes of operation. As I have expressed before on this forum, our 60m band here in ZS is certainly wide enough for DXing…. As it is in other countries too!!
That said, DXLab is essentially American software written by an American author, and is provided as a service to the Amateur community – we should all acknowledge that it is Dave’s undisputed right to decide what bands to support in this software, and respect his decision unequivocally. There are many ways to keep track of one’s “totals” on 60m (I am currently on 91 worked!)…. Dave has provided scripts for following entity totals and States worked (incidentally for the paper chasers the 60 Meters Online guys - http://www.60metersonline.com/index.html - offer awards for 60m operations) so the fact that DXView does not include Realtime tracking should not deter one from trying the band…. Just remember to stay within the Regulations applicable to your location!!
Enjoy DX …. And respect each other’s views and choices!! (In my case I don’t work 160m – a 40-60dB permanent noise level makes it futile!!)
73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ
KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa
EPC#0558 DMC#1690 30MDG#4081
DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)
DXCC(mixed)#41,146 DXCC(RTTY)#1,916
DXCC(phone)#34,990 DXCC(CW)#11,714
DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m 5BDXCC#8,916
WAS Triple Play #492 WAS(RTTY)#538 WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8
WAZ(RTTY)#185 WAE-I(mixed)#72 WAZS(mixed)#214 AAA#1569
AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334 UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75 UKSMG AFRICA#22 WAC (Satellite)
website : <http://www.zs2ez.co.za/>; www.zs2ez.co.za


Andrew OBrien
 

Since FT modes have moved in on 60M USA operations, they have totally shattered the ARRL’s interpretation of the NTIA-FCC expectations . Most are not using the requisite center frequency and nobody follows the one signal at a time requirement ! Oh, and any Winkink opérations on 60M would challenge the expectations that amateur transmissions should be brief enough to allow for primary services to be given priority in a timely manner when indicated . A 4-5 minute Pactor, Winmor, or VARA transmission would not at all be friendly secondary operations .

Andy K3UK.

On May 22, 2020, at 8:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@subich.com> wrote:

On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the
World when it comes to 60m….
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda
when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015
Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the
section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way
YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the
band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As
the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out
of sync with the rest of the world on this!
I have no disagreement with you on the regulatory arguments. ARRL have
had their collective heads where the sun don't shine for many years
regarding not only 5 MHz but also "wideband digital" modes (e.g.,
WinLink/PACTOR modes). I personally suspect the two are related in that
some ARRL "insiders" would like to give the quasi-commercial operations
priority on any "new" band in that spectrum as it posses ideal qualities
for 24x7 traffic.

That notwithstanding, the Realtime Award Tracking (RAT) of "entities" in
DXView, DXKeeper, and SpotCollector is for DXCC - not WAE or any other
awards explicitly covered in DXKeeper's "Check Progress" tab. Since
the RAT support is inextricably linked to the DXCC program there is
(IMO) no justification for spending the development cycles to diverge
RAT from DXCC.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the World when it comes to 60m…. even South Africa (which is normally VERY slow to adopt changes due to a convoluted Regulatory process) has had the allocation agreed to INTERNATIONALLY 5 years ago at our disposal for some time now!!!
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015 Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out of sync with the rest of the world on this!
Additionally, DXing is not restricted to FCC regulations or the ARRL’s awards – Dxing is not ONLY restricted to DXCC, DXing is the thrill of making contact with distant places, testing one’s station and operating abilities in different modes of operation. As I have expressed before on this forum, our 60m band here in ZS is certainly wide enough for DXing…. As it is in other countries too!!
That said, DXLab is essentially American software written by an American author, and is provided as a service to the Amateur community – we should all acknowledge that it is Dave’s undisputed right to decide what bands to support in this software, and respect his decision unequivocally. There are many ways to keep track of one’s “totals” on 60m (I am currently on 91 worked!)…. Dave has provided scripts for following entity totals and States worked (incidentally for the paper chasers the 60 Meters Online guys - http://www.60metersonline.com/index.html - offer awards for 60m operations) so the fact that DXView does not include Realtime tracking should not deter one from trying the band…. Just remember to stay within the Regulations applicable to your location!!
Enjoy DX …. And respect each other’s views and choices!! (In my case I don’t work 160m – a 40-60dB permanent noise level makes it futile!!)
73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ
KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa
EPC#0558 DMC#1690 30MDG#4081
DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)
DXCC(mixed)#41,146 DXCC(RTTY)#1,916
DXCC(phone)#34,990 DXCC(CW)#11,714
DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m 5BDXCC#8,916
WAS Triple Play #492 WAS(RTTY)#538 WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8
WAZ(RTTY)#185 WAE-I(mixed)#72 WAZS(mixed)#214 AAA#1569
AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334 UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75 UKSMG AFRICA#22 WAC (Satellite)
website : <http://www.zs2ez.co.za/>; www.zs2ez.co.za




Joe Subich, W4TV
 

All true. However, it has no bearing on the rules as currently
written or ARRL's willingness to recognize 60 meters for DXCC.
Thus, it does not impact Dave's decision to not include 60 meters
in the DXCC credit table used by DXK, DXV and SC for RAT and
"needed" status.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-05-22 8:37 AM, Andrew OBrien wrote:
Since FT modes have moved in on 60M USA operations, they have totally shattered the ARRL’s interpretation of the NTIA-FCC expectations . Most are not using the requisite center frequency and nobody follows the one signal at a time requirement ! Oh, and any Winkink opérations on 60M would challenge the expectations that amateur transmissions should be brief enough to allow for primary services to be given priority in a timely manner when indicated . A 4-5 minute Pactor, Winmor, or VARA transmission would not at all be friendly secondary operations .
Andy K3UK.

On May 22, 2020, at 8:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@subich.com> wrote:

On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the
World when it comes to 60m….
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda
when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015
Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the
section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way
YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the
band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As
the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out
of sync with the rest of the world on this!
I have no disagreement with you on the regulatory arguments. ARRL have
had their collective heads where the sun don't shine for many years
regarding not only 5 MHz but also "wideband digital" modes (e.g.,
WinLink/PACTOR modes). I personally suspect the two are related in that
some ARRL "insiders" would like to give the quasi-commercial operations
priority on any "new" band in that spectrum as it posses ideal qualities
for 24x7 traffic.

That notwithstanding, the Realtime Award Tracking (RAT) of "entities" in
DXView, DXKeeper, and SpotCollector is for DXCC - not WAE or any other
awards explicitly covered in DXKeeper's "Check Progress" tab. Since
the RAT support is inextricably linked to the DXCC program there is
(IMO) no justification for spending the development cycles to diverge
RAT from DXCC.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-05-22 2:06 AM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:
It would appear that the USA is lagging WELL behind the rest of the World when it comes to 60m…. even South Africa (which is normally VERY slow to adopt changes due to a convoluted Regulatory process) has had the allocation agreed to INTERNATIONALLY 5 years ago at our disposal for some time now!!!
I have long held the belief that the ARRL have a different agenda when it comes to 60m…. according to agreements reached at WRC-2015 Government and other users should have been steadily vacating the section between 5350-5450, and process should have been put under way YEARS ago to establish a secondary allocation in this section of the band, with a view to it ultimately becoming a primary allocation. As the USA is a participant at WRC, it is baffling why they are so out of sync with the rest of the world on this!
Additionally, DXing is not restricted to FCC regulations or the ARRL’s awards – Dxing is not ONLY restricted to DXCC, DXing is the thrill of making contact with distant places, testing one’s station and operating abilities in different modes of operation. As I have expressed before on this forum, our 60m band here in ZS is certainly wide enough for DXing…. As it is in other countries too!!
That said, DXLab is essentially American software written by an American author, and is provided as a service to the Amateur community – we should all acknowledge that it is Dave’s undisputed right to decide what bands to support in this software, and respect his decision unequivocally. There are many ways to keep track of one’s “totals” on 60m (I am currently on 91 worked!)…. Dave has provided scripts for following entity totals and States worked (incidentally for the paper chasers the 60 Meters Online guys - http://www.60metersonline.com/index.html - offer awards for 60m operations) so the fact that DXView does not include Realtime tracking should not deter one from trying the band…. Just remember to stay within the Regulations applicable to your location!!
Enjoy DX …. And respect each other’s views and choices!! (In my case I don’t work 160m – a 40-60dB permanent noise level makes it futile!!)
73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ
KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa
EPC#0558 DMC#1690 30MDG#4081
DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)
DXCC(mixed)#41,146 DXCC(RTTY)#1,916
DXCC(phone)#34,990 DXCC(CW)#11,714
DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m 5BDXCC#8,916
WAS Triple Play #492 WAS(RTTY)#538 WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8
WAZ(RTTY)#185 WAE-I(mixed)#72 WAZS(mixed)#214 AAA#1569
AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334 UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75 UKSMG AFRICA#22 WAC (Satellite)
website : <http://www.zs2ez.co.za/>; www.zs2ez.co.za


Brian Bowers G0VAX
 

Hi All,
Oops!!! Looks like I’ve started a bit of a bun fight on this topic!! Sorry!!!!


Brian G0VAX


Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Oops!!! Looks like I’ve started a bit of a bun fight on this topic!! Sorry!!!!

+ No need to apologize, Brian, your question was perfectly reasonable. It has been asked before, and it will be asked again.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ