Topics

Compound Spot Filter

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Thanks so much, will take a good look especially on that last section.
I continue to be both amazed and overwhelmed, and your software invites playing.

+ Exactly! That's why it's named "DXLab", rather than "DXAppliance".

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

Thanks so much, will take a good look especially on that last section.
I continue to be both amazed and overwhelmed, and your software invites playing. (which is why I use Workspaces and backups!)
73, N0AN
Hasan


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:05 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

I must be thick.

What I was looking for and finally settled on is this:

Band='6M' AND Mode='MSK144' AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

I wanted to see only spots from 6 meters and mode MSK144, and I only wanted to see them if they were heard (and subsequently spotted) in North America.

I have no interest in someone in the UK telling me they are seeing active stations in Germany on 6 meters.

If a station is not being heard anywhere in the USA, I'm not going to hear them, so why do I want them cluttering up my screen?

Am I somehow misinterpreting what the above filter does?

+ No, but don't be surprised if some of the stations in that appear in your Spot Database Display are being spotted by stations in Europe and Asia.


After a little more playing, I came up with the following Filter that eliminates mode, but collapses two bands which tend to show similar Es openings.

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M'))  AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

Again, I'm interpreting this to say,

On either band, if someone from North America has heard any station, any mode, show it to me. If you are not from North America, leave me alone.

This appears to answer the question: Is 6 meters open from anywhere in the world to North America? .


Is the filter, as I have defined it doing what I asked it to do, or do I have a syntax error of some sort?

+ That expression will function as you expect.


=======================================

With respect to your other point:

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meter.

This doesn't reflect what band conditions are actually like on 6 meters nearly every summer,  at least in Missouri, Iowa, Texas, Colorado, etc:

Multi-Hop Es to Japan via FT8 is very common on 6 meters in the summer. Two years in a row, I have worked more than 30 JA stations on 6 meter multi-hop Es in a single day. (2018 and 2019)

I also worked EU and Africa both years on FT8, 6 meters.,..and it was clearly multi-hop sporadic E. The keys are mode, power and antennas. (in other words, EIRP)


All were on FT8, all involved a minimum of 500w  out and all were using antennas with no less than 10 dBd gain.


Many USA operators experienced the same openings and while they were highly focused, they included Missouri to Japan and Texas to Japan as well.


And...all were spotted on PSKRreporter by stations from Ohio to Arizona. There was no F2 at the time, but there were E clouds all over the place.

+ I am familiar with multihop Es; my recommendation to use "maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station" stands. The fact that you are working Japan via Es from Iowa is unlikely to be relevant to me, but if an op within 500 miles of my station is working Japan via Es, I want to know about it.  Using "distance to spotting station" is a much more precise filtering mechanism than coarse-grained areas like NA-E or US states .


It looks to me like SC can do the same thing with the filter example I used above:

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M'))  AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

If those JAs show up this summer, this filter will spot them, unless I'm completely confused. When I ran this filter this morning it showed:

All the 6m MSK144 spots from my local WSJT-X

All the 6m MSK144 spots from N6WS
All the 6m FT8 Spots from N6WS
and a single 10m FT8 from N6WS

All those spots originated from North America.

+ For 6m, I would use this SQL filter:

(Band='6m') and (ODX<500)

+ It's not necessary to use this SQL expression, as SpotCollector's Band filter window lets you specify an ODX constraint for each band.

+ For 10m, I don't filter by "location of spotting station", though doing so is probably reasonable during the sunspot minimum.


+ Try doing the following:

1. on SpotCollector's Main window, click the Prop button just beneath the "Spot source status" panel at the top

2. In the Propagation window that appears,

2a. select "Bands vs Time" in the upper-left corner

2b. in the "DX active during past 24 hours" panel in the upper-right corner, set the "Max distance" to 500, and click the "Filter & Analyze" button.

2c. Note that double-clicking any of the vertical bars will filter the Spot Database Display to show the active stations

+ When I do this, I see activity on 6m at 11Z, 12Z, and 13Z, with 8 active stations at 13Z - almost all in MSK144.

+ A full description of this window's capabilities is here:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/DeterminingActualPropagationFromSpots>

           73,

                  Dave, AA6YQ







Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I must be thick.

What I was looking for and finally settled on is this:

Band='6M' AND Mode='MSK144' AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

I wanted to see only spots from 6 meters and mode MSK144, and I only wanted to see them if they were heard (and subsequently spotted) in North America.

I have no interest in someone in the UK telling me they are seeing active stations in Germany on 6 meters.

If a station is not being heard anywhere in the USA, I'm not going to hear them, so why do I want them cluttering up my screen?

Am I somehow misinterpreting what the above filter does?

+ No, but don't be surprised if some of the stations in that appear in your Spot Database Display are being spotted by stations in Europe and Asia.


After a little more playing, I came up with the following Filter that eliminates mode, but collapses two bands which tend to show similar Es openings.

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M')) AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

Again, I'm interpreting this to say,

On either band, if someone from North America has heard any station, any mode, show it to me. If you are not from North America, leave me alone.

This appears to answer the question: Is 6 meters open from anywhere in the world to North America? .


Is the filter, as I have defined it doing what I asked it to do, or do I have a syntax error of some sort?

+ That expression will function as you expect.


=======================================

With respect to your other point:

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meter.

This doesn't reflect what band conditions are actually like on 6 meters nearly every summer, at least in Missouri, Iowa, Texas, Colorado, etc:

Multi-Hop Es to Japan via FT8 is very common on 6 meters in the summer. Two years in a row, I have worked more than 30 JA stations on 6 meter multi-hop Es in a single day. (2018 and 2019)

I also worked EU and Africa both years on FT8, 6 meters.,..and it was clearly multi-hop sporadic E. The keys are mode, power and antennas. (in other words, EIRP)


All were on FT8, all involved a minimum of 500w out and all were using antennas with no less than 10 dBd gain.


Many USA operators experienced the same openings and while they were highly focused, they included Missouri to Japan and Texas to Japan as well.


And...all were spotted on PSKRreporter by stations from Ohio to Arizona. There was no F2 at the time, but there were E clouds all over the place.

+ I am familiar with multihop Es; my recommendation to use "maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station" stands. The fact that you are working Japan via Es from Iowa is unlikely to be relevant to me, but if an op within 500 miles of my station is working Japan via Es, I want to know about it. Using "distance to spotting station" is a much more precise filtering mechanism than coarse-grained areas like NA-E or US states .


It looks to me like SC can do the same thing with the filter example I used above:

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M')) AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

If those JAs show up this summer, this filter will spot them, unless I'm completely confused. When I ran this filter this morning it showed:

All the 6m MSK144 spots from my local WSJT-X

All the 6m MSK144 spots from N6WS
All the 6m FT8 Spots from N6WS
and a single 10m FT8 from N6WS

All those spots originated from North America.

+ For 6m, I would use this SQL filter:

(Band='6m') and (ODX<500)

+ It's not necessary to use this SQL expression, as SpotCollector's Band filter window lets you specify an ODX constraint for each band.

+ For 10m, I don't filter by "location of spotting station", though doing so is probably reasonable during the sunspot minimum.


+ Try doing the following:

1. on SpotCollector's Main window, click the Prop button just beneath the "Spot source status" panel at the top

2. In the Propagation window that appears,

2a. select "Bands vs Time" in the upper-left corner

2b. in the "DX active during past 24 hours" panel in the upper-right corner, set the "Max distance" to 500, and click the "Filter & Analyze" button.

2c. Note that double-clicking any of the vertical bars will filter the Spot Database Display to show the active stations

+ When I do this, I see activity on 6m at 11Z, 12Z, and 13Z, with 8 active stations at 13Z - almost all in MSK144.

+ A full description of this window's capabilities is here:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/DeterminingActualPropagationFromSpots>

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

If you see a spot database entry that you believe was incorrectly
included by your origin filter, right-click on it, and select "Display
spots of ... near ... in ...". That should show you all of the spots
that are included in that database entry. You will likely find that at
least one of them matches your origin criterion, but it may not be the
most recent one.

73,

~iain / N6ML


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:25 PM Hasan Schiers N0AN
<@Hasan> wrote:

Dave,

I must be thick.

What I was looking for and finally settled on is this:

Band='6M' AND Mode='MSK144' AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

I wanted to see only spots from 6 meters and mode MSK144, and I only wanted to see them if they were heard (and subsequently spotted) in North America.

I have no interest in someone in the UK telling me they are seeing active stations in Germany on 6 meters.

If a station is not being heard anywhere in the USA, I'm not going to hear them, so why do I want them cluttering up my screen?

Am I somehow misinterpreting what the above filter does?

After a little more playing, I came up with the following Filter that eliminates mode, but collapses two bands which tend to show similar Es openings.

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M')) AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

Again, I'm interpreting this to say,

On either band, if someone from North America has heard any station, any mode, show it to me. If you are not from North America, leave me alone.

This appears to answer the question: Is 6 meters open from anywhere in the world to North America? .

Is the filter, as I have defined it doing what I asked it to do, or do I have a syntax error of some sort?
=======================================

With respect to your other point:

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meter.

This doesn't reflect what band conditions are actually like on 6 meters nearly every summer, at least in Missouri, Iowa, Texas, Colorado, etc:

Multi-Hop Es to Japan via FT8 is very common on 6 meters in the summer. Two years in a row, I have worked more than 30 JA stations on 6 meter multi-hop Es in a single day. (2018 and 2019)

I also worked EU and Africa both years on FT8, 6 meters.,..and it was clearly multi-hop sporadic E. The keys are mode, power and antennas. (in other words, EIRP)

All were on FT8, all involved a minimum of 500w out and all were using antennas with no less than 10 dBd gain.

Many USA operators experienced the same openings and while they were highly focused, they included Missouri to Japan and Texas to Japan as well.

And...all were spotted on PSKRreporter by stations from Ohio to Arizona. There was no F2 at the time, but there were E clouds all over the place.

It looks to me like SC can do the same thing with the filter example I used above:

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M')) AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

If those JAs show up this summer, this filter will spot them, unless I'm completely confused. When I ran this filter this morning it showed:

All the 6m MSK144 spots from my local WSJT-X
All the 6m MSK144 spots from N6WS
All the 6m FT8 Spots from N6WS
and a single 10m FT8 from N6WS

All those spots originated from North America.

Do I still have it wrong?

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

I have an SQL filter set for Mode='MSK144'

and it works fine, but it is showing Spots from EU which are not useful on 6 meters.


I tried: Mode='MSK144' AND Origin="NA-M"

...and that didn't work, spots were found.

How do I create an SQL Filter that shows only spots for MSK144 and Spots originating from USA, Canada and Mexico? (for example)

Or, I could filter by spot source, since my spots for 6m MSK144 are generated by my copy of WSJT-X.

I know I could use the Origin and Mode buttons, but I wanted a one click solution.


+ SpotCollector displays entries for active DX stations, not spots. An active DX station can be spotted from many different locations. When you filter the Spot Database Display with

Origin="NA-M"

+ you are saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America". You are not saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America and have not been spotted from anywhere else on the planet"; there is an SQL expression that would accomplish this, but it would not be useful for DXing.

+ There are several good techniques for hiding the entries of active DX stations that you probably can't hear. These techniques are described here:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/HidingDXYouCantHear>

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meters, and have never used a meteor scatter mode on 6 meters, so I can't recommend a specific technique for those; the above article presents the available techniques.

+ If you want to "roll your own" SQL filters for this purpose, study the following Spot Database Fields in

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#Spot%20Database%20Field%20Table>

- UN, NAE, NAM, NAW, SA, EU, AF, AS, OC

- Distance

- ODX

- OMDX

- SPSNR, LPSNR, ReqSNR

- SPProb, LPProb

- ActualSNR, ActualSNRMin, ActualSNRMax

+ If you discover one or more useful new techniques, please share them here!

73,

Dave, AA6YQ





Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

Dave,

I must be thick.

What I was looking for and finally settled on is this:

Band='6M' AND Mode='MSK144' AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

I wanted to see only spots from 6 meters and mode MSK144, and I only wanted to see them if they were heard (and subsequently spotted) in North America.

I have no interest in someone in the UK telling me they are seeing active stations in Germany on 6 meters.

If a station is not being heard anywhere in the USA, I'm not going to hear them, so why do I want them cluttering up my screen?

Am I somehow misinterpreting what the above filter does?

After a little more playing, I came up with the following Filter that eliminates mode, but collapses two bands which tend to show similar Es openings.

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M'))  AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

Again, I'm interpreting this to say,

On either band, if someone from North America has heard any station, any mode, show it to me. If you are not from North America, leave me alone.

This appears to answer the question: Is 6 meters open from anywhere in the world to North America? .

Is the filter, as I have defined it doing what I asked it to do, or do I have a syntax error of some sort?
=======================================

With respect to your other point:

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meter.

This doesn't reflect what band conditions are actually like on 6 meters nearly every summer,  at least in Missouri, Iowa, Texas, Colorado, etc:

Multi-Hop Es to Japan via FT8 is very common on 6 meters in the summer. Two years in a row, I have worked more than 30 JA stations on 6 meter multi-hop Es in a single day. (2018 and 2019)

I also worked EU and Africa both years on FT8, 6 meters.,..and it was clearly multi-hop sporadic E. The keys are mode, power and antennas. (in other words, EIRP)

All were on FT8, all involved a minimum of 500w  out and all were using antennas with no less than 10 dBd gain.

Many USA operators experienced the same openings and while they were highly focused, they included Missouri to Japan and Texas to Japan as well.

And...all were spotted on PSKRreporter by stations from Ohio to Arizona. There was no F2 at the time, but there were E clouds all over the place.

It looks to me like SC can do the same thing with the filter example I used above:

((Band='10M') or (Band='6M'))  AND ((NAE='Y') or (NAM='Y') or (NAW='Y'))

If those JAs show up this summer, this filter will spot them, unless I'm completely confused. When I ran this filter this morning it showed:

All the 6m MSK144 spots from my local WSJT-X
All the 6m MSK144 spots from N6WS
All the 6m FT8 Spots from N6WS
and a single 10m FT8 from N6WS

All those spots originated from North America.

Do I still have it wrong?

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

I have an SQL filter set for Mode='MSK144'

and it works fine, but it is showing Spots from EU which are not useful on 6 meters.


I tried: Mode='MSK144' AND Origin="NA-M"

...and that didn't work, spots were found.

How do I create an SQL Filter that shows only spots for MSK144 and Spots originating from USA, Canada and Mexico?  (for example)

Or, I could filter by spot source, since my spots for 6m MSK144 are generated by my copy of WSJT-X.

I know I could use the Origin and Mode buttons, but I wanted a one click solution.


+ SpotCollector displays entries for active DX stations, not spots. An active DX station can be spotted from many different locations. When you filter the Spot Database Display with

Origin="NA-M"

+ you are saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America".  You are not saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America and have not been spotted from anywhere else on the planet"; there is an SQL expression that would accomplish this, but it would not be useful for DXing.

+ There are several good techniques for hiding the entries of active DX stations that you probably can't hear. These techniques are described here:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/HidingDXYouCantHear>

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meters, and have never used a meteor scatter mode on 6 meters, so I can't recommend a specific technique for those; the above article presents the available techniques.

+ If you want to "roll your own" SQL filters for this purpose, study the following Spot Database Fields in

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#Spot%20Database%20Field%20Table>

 - UN, NAE, NAM, NAW, SA, EU, AF, AS, OC

 - Distance

 - ODX

 - OMDX

 - SPSNR, LPSNR, ReqSNR

 - SPProb, LPProb

 - ActualSNR, ActualSNRMin, ActualSNRMax

+ If you discover one or more useful new techniques, please share them here!

        73,

               Dave, AA6YQ






Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I have an SQL filter set for Mode='MSK144'

and it works fine, but it is showing Spots from EU which are not useful on 6 meters.


I tried: Mode='MSK144' AND Origin="NA-M"

...and that didn't work, spots were found.

How do I create an SQL Filter that shows only spots for MSK144 and Spots originating from USA, Canada and Mexico? (for example)

Or, I could filter by spot source, since my spots for 6m MSK144 are generated by my copy of WSJT-X.

I know I could use the Origin and Mode buttons, but I wanted a one click solution.


+ SpotCollector displays entries for active DX stations, not spots. An active DX station can be spotted from many different locations. When you filter the Spot Database Display with

Origin="NA-M"

+ you are saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America". You are not saying "show me all active DX stations that have been spotted from the middle of North America and have not been spotted from anywhere else on the planet"; there is an SQL expression that would accomplish this, but it would not be useful for DXing.

+ There are several good techniques for hiding the entries of active DX stations that you probably can't hear. These techniques are described here:

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/HidingDXYouCantHear>

+ For Es propagation on 6 meters, specifying a maximum distance between your QTH and the closest spotting station works best. I've never experienced an F2 opening on 6 meters, and have never used a meteor scatter mode on 6 meters, so I can't recommend a specific technique for those; the above article presents the available techniques.

+ If you want to "roll your own" SQL filters for this purpose, study the following Spot Database Fields in

<https://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/Help/SpotDatabase.htm#Spot%20Database%20Field%20Table>

- UN, NAE, NAM, NAW, SA, EU, AF, AS, OC

- Distance

- ODX

- OMDX

- SPSNR, LPSNR, ReqSNR

- SPProb, LPProb

- ActualSNR, ActualSNRMin, ActualSNRMax

+ If you discover one or more useful new techniques, please share them here!

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

I have an SQL filter set for Mode='MSK144'

and it works fine, but it is showing Spots from EU which are not useful on 6 meters.

I tried: Mode='MSK144' AND Origin="NA-M"
...and that didn't work, spots were found.

How do I create an SQL Filter that shows only spots for MSK144 and Spots originating from USA, Canada and Mexico?  (for example)

Or, I could filter by spot source, since my spots for 6m MSK144 are generated by my copy of WSJT-X.

I know I could use the Origin and Mode buttons, but I wanted a one click solution.
 
TIA, N0AN,


Hasan