Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

I’ve been having serious latency problems with Commander PTT when using JT65-HF.

The rig doesn’t go into transmit immediately, and the delay may take several seconds. Likewise, the rig doesn’t reliably go back into receive. I often have to ‘help’ the rig by pushing the ‘Transmit’ button, both to start and stop transmitting.

This problem doesn’t exist with WinKey or WinWarbler.

I think I have traced the problem to a lack of available CPU cycles for Commander. When I use Windows Task Manager to increase Commander’s Base Priority to ‘High’, the problem disappears completely.

As most know, JT65-HF uses lots of processing power during changeover, because of decode processing. Perhaps the reason why the problem isn’t evident on WinkKey or WinWarbler is that that internal processing demands are not so strong, and perhaps the PTT connection with Commander is more robust for those apps.

I’ve searched the archives, and I don’t see anything directly on point. I have tried every possible setting in Commanderm, and nothing seems to make a difference while running JT5-HF.

Now, I don’t have a typical setup. I’m running Win7/64 in emulation on a very fast MacBook Pro with SSD and 16MB RAM. So this issue may not apply to others. Rig is a IC-7600 w/USB connection.

Priority settings in Windows Task Manager are not preserved when an app is closed and restarted. Prio is an app which can save Windows Task Manager settings, but I am reluctant to rely on it.

Is there a way to give Commander PTT more computing power for this situation? Perhaps a check box for such situations.


73 Parker W5ADD


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

What transceiver?

Are you using hardware PTT (RTS) or command based PTT (CAT)?

What is your "Command Interval"?

I do not see any latency on a relatively slow Core2Duo based system
with a K3 but I'm using hardware PTT from Commander rather than CAT.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 10:04 AM, parker@... wrote:
I�ve been having serious latency problems with Commander PTT when
using JT65-HF.

The rig doesn�t go into transmit immediately, and the delay may take
several seconds. Likewise, the rig doesn�t reliably go back into
receive. I often have to �help� the rig by pushing the �Transmit�
button, both to start and stop transmitting.

This problem doesn�t exist with WinKey or WinWarbler.

I think I have traced the problem to a lack of available CPU cycles
for Commander. When I use Windows Task Manager to increase
Commander�s Base Priority to �High�, the problem disappears
completely.

As most know, JT65-HF uses lots of processing power during
changeover, because of decode processing. Perhaps the reason why the
problem isn�t evident on WinkKey or WinWarbler is that that internal
processing demands are not so strong, and perhaps the PTT connection
with Commander is more robust for those apps.

I�ve searched the archives, and I don�t see anything directly on
point. I have tried every possible setting in Commanderm, and nothing
seems to make a difference while running JT5-HF.

Now, I don�t have a typical setup. I�m running Win7/64 in emulation
on a very fast MacBook Pro with SSD and 16MB RAM. So this issue may
not apply to others. Rig is a IC-7600 w/USB connection.

Priority settings in Windows Task Manager are not preserved when an
app is closed and restarted. Prio is an app which can save Windows
Task Manager settings, but I am reluctant to rely on it.

Is there a way to give Commander PTT more computing power for this
situation? Perhaps a check box for such situations.

� 73 Parker W5ADD


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

--What transceiver?

ICOM IC-7600 w/USB.

--Are you using hardware PTT (RTS) or command based PTT (CAT)?

CAT.

--What is your "Command Interval"?

100 ms.


--

Parker W5ADD


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Do you have similar behavior with WinWarbler?

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 11:17 AM, parker@... wrote:
--What transceiver?

ICOM IC-7600 w/USB.

--Are you using hardware PTT (RTS) or command based PTT (CAT)?

CAT.

--What is your "Command Interval"?

100 ms.


--
Parker W5ADD


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

--Do you have similar behavior with WinWarbler?

No, Joe. No problems with either WinKeyer or WinWarbler
.
Nor did I have this problem with the previous Brand X software which begins with an 'H'.

I do run Commander, DXKeeper, DXView and SpotCollector at the same time, which might take more processing power than Brand X.

--
Parker W5ADD


Andrew OBrien
 

Not seeing this here when using Commander and JT65-HF or WSJT-X
Andy K3UK


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:11 PM, <parker@...> wrote:
 

--Do you have similar behavior with WinWarbler?

No, Joe. No problems with either WinKeyer or WinWarbler
.
Nor did I have this problem with the previous Brand X software which begins with an 'H'.

I do run Commander, DXKeeper, DXView and SpotCollector at the same time, which might take more processing power than Brand X.

--
Parker W5ADD



jkajder@...
 

Have you tried WSJT-X? I am using WSJT-X for JT65 and JT9 using an older Lenovo with dual core processor and Win 7. No latency here with WSJT-X using Commander to control Icom IC-7200. I use JT-Alert to link WSJT-X and DXKeeper together for logging.

Jim, AF5FH


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

-- Have you tried WSJT-X?

Yes, no difference.

And I am not a fan of WSJT-X yet.

--
Parker W5ADD


Dave AA6YQ
 

AA6YQ comments below
-----Original Message-----
From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of parker@...
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 12:11 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF

--Do you have similar behavior with WinWarbler?

No, Joe. No problems with either WinKeyer or WinWarbler .

So I can see what's going on, please do the following
1. on the General tab of Commander's Configuration window, check the "log debugging info" box

2. take action in JT65-HF that causes it to direct Commander to switch your transceiver from RX to TX and from TX to RX

3. on the General tab of Commander's Configuration window, uncheck the "log debugging info" box

4. attach the errorlog.txt file from your Commander folder, and send it to me via

aa6yq (at) ambersoft.com

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

I have had no problem using Commander for CAT/PTT with WSJT-X
or for PTT only with Joe Large's no longer supported JT65HF.
However, since I prefer hardware PTT ever since I lost a rig
due to a hung software PTT several years ago, I generally used
a separate serial port for JT65-HF (and use hardware PTT from
Commander).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 1:21 PM, parker@... wrote:
-- Have you tried WSJT-X?

Yes, no difference.

And I am not a fan of WSJT-X yet.

--
Parker W5ADD


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

Joe, the problem can be solved 100% by giving Commander PTT more priority in WIndows Task Manager.

This means that if there were a way to do this in software, permanently, then there would be no need for this.

I didn't have the problem with HRD, and I worked 9-band WAS in JT65 with HRD. I like DXLab way too much to go back, but it's quite annoying, to say the least.

--
Parker W5ADD


Dave AA6YQ
 

AA6YQ comments below
-----Original Message-----
From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of parker@...
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:10 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF

Joe, the problem can be solved 100% by giving Commander PTT more priority in WIndows Task Manager.

This means that if there were a way to do this in software, permanently, then there would be no need for this.

It's best to understand the problem before choosing a solution. Let's see what the errorlog.txt file shows.
73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

Are you talking about sending a software message to CI-V Commander from
JT65-HF and using the PTT capability of Commander or a separate program
called "Commander PTT"?


73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 3:09 PM, parker@... wrote:
Joe, the problem can be solved 100% by giving Commander PTT more priority in WIndows Task Manager.

This means that if there were a way to do this in software, permanently, then there would be no need for this.

I didn't have the problem with HRD, and I worked 9-band WAS in JT65 with HRD. I like DXLab way too much to go back, but it's quite annoying, to say the least.

--
Parker W5ADD


W5ADD@arrl.net
 

I'm talking about giving the Commander PTT routine more priority.

If I can solve the problem by raising Commander's priority in Windows Task Manager, then it should be fixable in software.

--
Parker W5ADD


Stephen Rabinowitz
 

Joe,

I am using WSJT-X v1.1, r3496 with JTAlert-X 2.4.13 and the DXLab Suite.  The TCP connection to Commander works well, but the connection to the other members of the suite, which I think is supposed to be by DDE, does not work.  I tested this with DXLabTest 1.3.2 and got the same result.  Can you please tell me what I am missing here?  There are too many moving parts for this old head to track.

73, Steve  WA2DFP

 

 

From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 2:26 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF

 

 


I have had no problem using Commander for CAT/PTT with WSJT-X
or for PTT only with Joe Large's no longer supported JT65HF.
However, since I prefer hardware PTT ever since I lost a rig
due to a hung software PTT several years ago, I generally used
a separate serial port for JT65-HF (and use hardware PTT from
Commander).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 1:21 PM, parker@... wrote:
> -- Have you tried WSJT-X?
>
> Yes, no difference.
>
> And I am not a fan of WSJT-X yet.
>
> --
> Parker W5ADD
>


Joe Subich, W4TV
 

The connection to other members of the DXLab Suite is handled by
JT-Alert. No application - either DXLab Suite or JT-Alert may be
run with elevated privileges ("run as administrator"). DDE works
only between "peers".

If you have questions about JT-Alert, contact Laurie VK3AMA (via
the support page in JT-ALert - send him the session files from
JT-Alert so he can diagnose your problems).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/20/2014 12:10 PM, Stephen Rabinowitz wrote:
Joe,

I am using WSJT-X v1.1, r3496 with JTAlert-X 2.4.13 and the DXLab Suite.
The TCP connection to Commander works well, but the connection to the other
members of the suite, which I think is supposed to be by DDE, does not work.
I tested this with DXLabTest 1.3.2 and got the same result. Can you please
tell me what I am missing here? There are too many moving parts for this
old head to track.

73, Steve WA2DFP





From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 2:26 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF






I have had no problem using Commander for CAT/PTT with WSJT-X
or for PTT only with Joe Large's no longer supported JT65HF.
However, since I prefer hardware PTT ever since I lost a rig
due to a hung software PTT several years ago, I generally used
a separate serial port for JT65-HF (and use hardware PTT from
Commander).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/19/2014 1:21 PM, parker@... wrote:
-- Have you tried WSJT-X?

Yes, no difference.

And I am not a fan of WSJT-X yet.

--
Parker W5ADD



Dave AA6YQ
 

AA6YQ comments below
-----Original Message-----
From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 2:55 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF


The connection to other members of the DXLab Suite is handled by JT-Alert. No application - either DXLab Suite or JT-Alert may be
run with elevated privileges ("run as administrator"). DDE works only between "peers".

Explanation: either all communicating applications must be started with "Run as Administrator", or none them can be started with
"Run as Administrator".

So long as you didn't install your applications in a folder that Windows considers "protected" -- like c:/program files or
c:/program files (x86) -- there is no need to initiate your applications with "Run as Administrator".

By default, the Launcher installs all DXLab applications in the non-protected folder c:/dxlab
73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Dave AA6YQ
 

Parker, the errorlog.txt file you sent me does not show any instance where you

1. enabled Commander's "log debugging info" option

2. performed an action in JT65-HF that cause JT65-HF do direct Commander to switch the transceiver from RX to TX

3. disabled "log debugging info"

Thus the errorlog.txt file does not provide the trace of activities I need to see to determine what's going on.

However, one of the screen shots you sent shows that you have Commander's "verify CI-V acceptance" option enabled. This option is
intended for use in environments where multiple devices are connected to the CI-V bus in a way that permits collisions to occur.
When sending a CI-V command to a transceiver, Commander waits for a positive acknowledgement from the transceiver before proceeding
-- which if the transceiver's microprocessor is not responsive can cause things to slow down. If you have your PC connected to your
IC-7600 via the USB interface with nothing else connected to the IC-7600's backpanel CI-V port, then no collisions are possible, and
you should disable the "verify CI-V acceptance" option.

Disabling "verify CI-V acceptance" may not eliminate the delay you've been reporting, but it will reduce the number of variables
in the equation. If the delays remain, please perform the 3 steps above and send me the resulting errorlog.txt file from your
Commander folder.

Thanks.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Parker Dinkins [mailto:parker@...]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:28 AM
To: Dave AA6YQ
Subject: Re: [dxlab] Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF

Dave -

I am attaching ErrorLog.Txt and various screen grabs, which should be self-explanatory. The ErrorLog.txt shows no activity in
connection with this issue.

Apparently HRD uses TCP/IP, just FWIW.

Correction: this issue does not appear with the current version of WSJT-X.

--
73 Parker W5ADD

PS - If this is a software issue in JT65-HF, then I'll just raise the priority in Windows Task Manager so I can continue using
DXLab. Many thanks for your help.


Stephen Rabinowitz
 

You were right on the money.  My DXLab Launcher was running as administrator and WSJT-X was not. Once all programs were running at a humbler status the communications began to to flow.  Seems like the folks in Washington should be introduced to this concept.  Many thanks.
73 Steve WA2DFP


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...>
Date: 01/20/2014 4:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: dxlab@...
Subject: RE: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF


 

>>>AA6YQ comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: dxlab@... [mailto:dxlab@...] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 2:55 PM
To: dxlab@...
Subject: Re: [dxlab] RE: Commander PTT Sluggish with JT65-HF

The connection to other members of the DXLab Suite is handled by JT-Alert. No application - either DXLab Suite or JT-Alert may be
run with elevated privileges ("run as administrator"). DDE works only between "peers".

>>>Explanation: either all communicating applications must be started with "Run as Administrator", or none them can be started with
"Run as Administrator".

>>>So long as you didn't install your applications in a folder that Windows considers "protected" -- like c:/program files or
c:/program files (x86) -- there is no need to initiate your applications with "Run as Administrator".

>>>By default, the Launcher installs all DXLab applications in the non-protected folder c:/dxlab

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Richard B Drake
 

Unfortunately, it has to do with DDE which is an outdated technology that still works (if you use it right) but is no longer supported by the folks in Washington.

73, Rich - W3ZJ

Stephen Rabinowitz MD wrote:

You were right on the money. My DXLab Launcher was running as administrator and WSJT-X was not. Once all programs were running at a humbler status the communications began to to flow. Seems like the folks in Washington should be introduced to this concept. Many thanks.
73 Steve WA2DFPby the