Date   
Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Wikipedia is not up to date
I worked 80 countries in one month, heard many more. Most of them FT8 but also cw&ssb.
Clublog 'clubleages' shows 166 countries on the no. 1 @ VERON.

+ In addition to the 61 countries it shows with band allocations, the Wikipedia article shows another 19 countries that allocate channels - all small, narrow allocations.

So about 50% of the DXCC's is able to work on 60M.

+ Most with very small frequency allocations.

Some suppport from the app would be nice.

+ With respect to operation on 60m, you have the full support of DXLab except realtime award tracking for DXCC and WAS awards. This includes realtime award tracking for the IOTA, Marathon, WAZ and WPX awards.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Re: SQL expression to find

Email Service <jfriend31@...>
 

Thank you
Jack

Sent from XFINITY Connect App



------ Original Message ------

From: iain macdonnell - N6ML
To: DXLab@groups.io
Sent: January 16, 2020 at 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DXLab] SQL expression to find

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:26 PM Email Service wrote: > > Band=40m > RTTY > FT8 > I have tried > (Band='40m') and Mode='RTTY' and Mode='FT8" > Which results in error For educational purposes... If that's a direct copy/paste, the error was because you used a double-quote on the end and single quotes everywhere else. You can use either, but must be consistent. That aside; the mode can't be both RTTY *and* FT8, so that filter would never match anything. My preferred solution would be: Band='40m' and Mode in ('RTTY','FT8') 73, ~iain / N6ML

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2020-01-17 2:26 AM, Ken Meinken wrote:

I know the ARRL says "center frequency, one user only" but I cannot
find anything in the actual FCC regulations.
Ken,

Here they are again:

Part 97.303(h),
(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur
stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified
in the table below. In order to meet this requirement, control
operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions
(emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively)
may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as
specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission designator
150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions do not occupy
more than 2.8 kHz centered on each of these center frequencies.

60 M Band Frequencies (kHz)
Carrier Center
5330.5 5332.0
5346.5 5348.0
5357.0 5358.5
5371.5 5373.0
5403.5 5405.0
Part 97.303(h)(2),
(2) Amateur stations transmitting on the 60 m band must not cause
harmful interference to, and must accept interference from, stations authorized by:

(i) The United States (NTIA and FCC) and other nations in the fixed
service; and

(ii) Other nations in the mobile except aeronautical mobile service.
part 97.221(c)
(c) Except for channels specified in §97.303(h), a station may be
automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission
on any other frequency authorized for such emission types
Again, note that Part 97.303(h) specificially lists a carrier offset
*identical to* the audio offset which, if followed, results in *ONE*
station per channel located at the channel center.

There is no interpretation here. The rules for US licensees are as
they are to protect primary users - principly US Government users
authorized by the NTIA - from interference.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-17 2:26 AM, Ken Meinken wrote:
Joe,
 I know the ARRL says "center frequency, one user only" but I cannot find anything in the actual FCC regulations.
As for the ARRL, they were very wrong when we got the current allocations and modes and they proclaimed it was RTTY and PSK ONLY, nothing else, Therefore, I have low confidence in their accuracy regarding 60m.
73, Ken WA8JXM
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@... <mailto:lists@...>> wrote:
On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.
*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).
The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.
73,
    ... Joe, W4TV
On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At
first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room
in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a
dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in
the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource
is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will
cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether
operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be
used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means
single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room,
according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we
(USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other
services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see
commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in
fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX
style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take
this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question
you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the
ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX
operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...
<mailto:dk1fw@...>> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US
hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too
focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of
DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with
DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a
pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for
those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL
considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

aart wedemeijer PA3C
 

Wikipedia is not up to date
I worked 80 countries in one month, heard many more. Most of them FT8 but also cw&ssb.
Clublog 'clubleages' shows 166 countries on the no. 1 @ VERON.

So about 50% of the DXCC's is able to work on 60M.

Some suppport from the app would be nice.

73

Aart

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 01:24 AM, Wolf, DK1FW wrote:

Unless "DXing" is understood as another word for "Award -Chasing" I do not go along with a statement that 60m is "too narrow for DXing".

+ I meant "too narrow for award chasing".

 

            73,

                   Dave, AA6YQ

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Wolf, DK1FW
 

It may be worthwhile to add that

the 15 kHz allocation used by 47 countries results from a decision at the 2015 World Radio Conference and is on a secondary basis. Many of these 47 countires have imposed a power limit between 15 and 30 watts EIRP to minimize potential for interference to primary users.
So there is a certain chance that this may evolve into a wider standard.

As stated earlier these 15 kHz are never overcrowded here in EU (not even the FT8 channel) and DXing is what keeps the band alive here apart from some daytime SSB ragchews. The power limits on this band make DXing particularly challenging and interesting. Unless "DXing" is understood as another word for "Award -Chasing" I do not go along with a statement that 60m is "too narrow for DXing".

73 de Wolf, DK1FW

Am 17.01.2020 um 08:49 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:

Summary of 60m band allocations shown in

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations>

12 countries provide allocations of 50 kHz or more

1 country provides an allocation of 30 kHz

47 countries provide an allocation of 15 kHz

1 country provides an allocation of 12 kHz

73,

Dave, AA6YQ



-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:40 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:
+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ





Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Dave AA6YQ
 

Summary of 60m band allocations shown in

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations>

12 countries provide allocations of 50 kHz or more

1 country provides an allocation of 30 kHz

47 countries provide an allocation of 15 kHz

1 country provides an allocation of 12 kHz

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

-----Original Message-----
From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:40 AM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ






--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Re: GPS in winwarbler problem

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

No error file .. I see nothing being populated in the position vector window. It seems to know the gps is on my port and I do not get any errors.

+ OK. Please do the following:

1. on the Configuration window's General tab, check the "log debugging info" box

2. on the "Position and Vector Configuration" window, make sure the serial port parameters are correctly specified, and the "Enable GPS" box is checked

3. terminate WinWarbler

4. with your GPS connected and turned on, start WinWarbler

5. wait 30 seconds

6. on the Configuration window's General tab, uncheck the "log debugging info" box

7. attach the errorlog.txt file from your WinWarbler folder to an email message, and send the message to me via

aa6yq (at) ambersoft.com

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Dave AA6YQ
 

* more AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

* Thanks, Ian. That article shows 61 countries with band allocations for 60m . Of those 61, only 12 allocate 50 kHz or more:

5060 5450 390 Somalia
5250 5450 200 Bulgaria
5250 5450 200 Denmark
5250 5450 200 Greenland
5250 5450 200 Grenada
5250 5450 200 Samoa
5250 5450 200 Trinidad & Tobago
5275 5450 175 Kenya
5250 5400 150 Barbados
5260 5410 150 Norway
5350 5450 100 South Africa
5250 5310 60 Bangladesh

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Ken Meinken
 

Joe,
 I know the ARRL says "center frequency, one user only" but I cannot find anything in the actual FCC regulations. 

As for the ARRL, they were very wrong when we got the current allocations and modes and they proclaimed it was RTTY and PSK ONLY, nothing else, Therefore, I have low confidence in their accuracy regarding 60m. 
73, Ken WA8JXM


On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:
On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>





Re: GPS in winwarbler problem

Craig Wallen
 

No error file .. I see nothing being populated in the position vector window. It seems to know the gps is on my port and I do not get any errors.

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dave AA6YQ <@AA6YQ> wrote:

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing.

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!
There's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band#Band_allocations

Not sure of accuracy, but it looks fairly comprehensive.....

73,

~iain / N6ML

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:56 PM, Barry Murrell ZS2EZ wrote:

Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing

+ I agree, Barry, 100 kHz is sufficient for DXing. 

+ If anyone has (or can point at) "60m amateur frequency allocations by region" information, please post it here. Thanks!

        73,

              Dave, AA6YQ

Re: monitor 60M for new DXCC

Barry Murrell ZS2EZ
 

Hi All

 

I for one am GOBSMACKED at how the USA (ARRL, FCC , NTA and others) are so far behind at sorting out the 60m allocation. Even here in ZS (which is not known for quick response to allocations and changes) we have long been allocated 5350-5450 for our 60m band. This is sufficient for decent DXing (for decades all we had on 40m was 7.0 to 7.1 !!!), and particularly with the narrow “JT” modes it is in fact a great DX band.

 

Even though we are still subject to limitations (basically no more than a dipole and limited power) there are a few of us with decent totals (my near-neighbour ZS2ACP and myself currently both sit on 81 entities). ZS2ACP has also completed WAS, while I am still 5 States short. The guys at http://60metersonline.com/ offer a certificate for this achievement.

 

The point I am trying to make is that whilst the USA may be restricted to a tiny allocation on 60m, many other countries are not. Whilst I understand (and totally respect) Dave’s decision not to support DXing on this band, I have long suspected that the ARRL have not put in any effort to bring the USA into line with the rest of the world as they have a different agenda for this band - po–sibly to try turning it into an EMCOMM-Only band??

 

In the meantime the rest of us will continue to DX on what is a really nice band – we just have to work around the lack of progress displays etc. Makes us appreciate the presence of these facilities in the DXLab Suite so much more!!!! J  If you need to check your totals, entities worked etc search the archives – Dave has provided filters and scripts to allow us to access all the necessary info. Works perfectly!!

 

73 de BARRY MURRELL ZS2EZ

KF26ta - Port Elizabeth, South Africa

EPC#0558 DMC#1690  30MDG#4081

DXCC HONOR ROLL (332/340)

DXCC(mixed)#41,146  DXCC(RTTY)#1,916

DXCC(phone)#34,990  DXCC(CW)#11,714

DXCC 80m,40m,30m,20m,17m,15m,12m,10m   5BDXCC#8,916

WAS Triple Play #492  WAS(RTTY)#538  WAS(Digital)#163-Endorsements JT65,FT8

WAZ(RTTY)#185  WAE-I(mixed)#72  WAZS(mixed)#214  AAA#1569

AS ZR6DXB: VUCC(50MHZ)#1,334  UKSMG WAE(Silver)#75  UKSMG AFRICA#22  WAC (Satellite)

website : www.zs2ez.co.za

 

From: DXLab@groups.io [mailto:DXLab@groups.io] On Behalf Of Hasan Schiers N0AN
Sent: Thursday, 16 January 2020 16:56
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

 

The purpose of my post was to explain to Wolf why, in my estimation,  Dave may have chosen not to include 60 meters in the Suite.(and to agree with it)  My comments were not to start a rehash of this worn out topic on the DXLab list! This is not the place for debate on 60m privileges, I didn't start a debate and won't continue one. This is my last post on the matter. Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach, and as a very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of the USA stations I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively, nor am I aware of any enforcement actions taken against them.

 

Where, precisely, did the following statement come from, or is it your own conclusion?

Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please cite the reference), or your interpretation of something else?

 

<Begin quote>:

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

<End quote>

 

If you have such a source, please email me privately, as this whole thing appears to be way off topic for DXLab, and I apologize to the list members for this kind of distraction.

 

73, N0AN

Hasan

 

 

 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:59 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:

On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:

> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation
> on any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is
> permissible. Taking this position means only one freq (audio
> included) may be used in the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed,
> single frequency means single frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000
> Hz. So there is no room, according to this way of thinking.

*THERE IS NO DEBATE*  That is exactly what the US Rules state - one
user per channel and that user must monitor in USB for primary users
(US Government).

The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 8:08 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
> Wolf, (not speaking for Dave, just my own assessment of the issue you
> raised)
>
> Your comments about being USA centered certainly have merit. At first, I
> had the perspective that you used, i.e.. there is plenty of room in a 3 kHz
> bandwidth ...and I myself have worked tons of DX on 60m with a dipole and
> 80w  It is a super band for FT8 on 5357 kHz
>
> I think the general idea is to prevent 60m (a shared resource in the USA),
> from becoming a mad-house of DX award chasers. Since the resource is so
> limited there is a fear that encouraging mass dx chasing ops will cause
> real issues, again, inside the USA.
>
> Another scary issue:
>
> There has been considerable debate in the USA as to whether operation on
> any other frequency than 5357 kHz with a 1500 Hz tone is permissible.
> Taking this position means only one freq (audio included) may be used in
> the USA. There is no 3 kHz spread allowed, single frequency means single
> frequency, not a band from 200 to 3000 Hz. So there is no room, according
> to this way of thinking.
>
> Secondly, this is a shared resource with other services and we (USA) are
> SECONDARY and must not cause interference to these other services. When I
> examine the entire 3 kHz span around 5357 kHz, I do see commercial or other
> services sending data. We have been told NOT to interfere with those
> services and if they are on 1500 Hz to stop transmitting.
>
> So it's not just narrow (3 kHz) that is the issue. Narrow may, in fact be a
> single audio freq of 1500 Hz (which is often ignored)
> It is also the "shared" allocation on a non-interference basis.
> Both of which are terribly compromised by encouraging DX style/Award Style
> or congested operations on 60m inside the USA
>
> Your USA-centric comments are accurate, but the restrictions and
> limitations imposed are not driven by whim.
>
> ...and before someone asks, "Why doesn't someone like ARRL take this up
> with the FCC?"   The answer is "never ask an authority a question you can't
> afford the answer 'NO' to". The point being,  we could lose the ability to
> use FT8 on 60m altogether if we ask the wrong question to the wrong
> authority. For now, we can use it with care. Encouraging DX operating or
> award operating is not "using it with care".
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:19 AM Wolf, DK1FW <dk1fw@...> wrote:
>
>> Due to the channelized 60m situation in the US I understand ARRLs
>> decision to not issue a 60m DXCC to some extent. After all US hams are
>> ARRL's prime customers.
>>
>> However, there is DXing following personal targets beyond DXCC and a
>> world outside FCC jurisdiction. It is a pity that DXLab is too focused
>> on the US situation.
>>
>> A blunt statement that 60m  "is too narrow for DXing" is simply
>> narrow-sighted (even Dave is not perfect).
>> 30m is only 3 times as wide as 60m and is almost the backbone of DXing
>> during the present sunspot minimum.
>> Monitoring 60m from Europe the band is NEVER overcrowded with DXing and
>> would show almost no actitivity without DXing.
>>
>> Fortunately SpotSpy (in the licensed version - a beer or a pizza) offers
>> 60m DXCC alerts and tracking of 60m worked /confirmed status for those
>> of us, who are interested in 60m DX.
>>
>> 73 de Wolf, DK1FW
>>
>>
>> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:59 schrieb Dave AA6YQ:
>>> + AA6YQ comments below
>>>
>>> How can I monitor 60M for new DXCC's?
>>> Creating a filter in Spotcollector?
>>> I'm not good at SQL.
>>>
>>> + 60m QSOs do not count for ARRL awards like DXCC. DXLab does not
>> support realtime award tracking for DXCC on 60m. The ARRL considers this
>> band to be too narrow for DXing; I agree.
>>>
>>>             73,
>>>
>>>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>>>




Re: SQL expression to find

iain macdonnell - N6ML
 

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:26 PM Email Service <jfriend31@...> wrote:

Band=40m
RTTY
FT8
I have tried
(Band='40m') and Mode='RTTY' and Mode='FT8"
Which results in error
For educational purposes...

If that's a direct copy/paste, the error was because you used a
double-quote on the end and single quotes everywhere else. You can use
either, but must be consistent.

That aside; the mode can't be both RTTY *and* FT8, so that filter
would never match anything.

My preferred solution would be:

Band='40m' and Mode in ('RTTY','FT8')

73,

~iain / N6ML

Re: SQL expression to find

Email Service <jfriend31@...>
 

Thank you, Dave.

jack

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:33 PM
To: DXLab@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DXLab] SQL expression to find

 

+ AA6YQ comments below

 

Band=40m

 

RTTY

 

FT8

 

+ Assuming you mean

 

"Show all 40m QSOs made in either RTTY or FT8", then the desired SQL expression is

 

(Band='40m') and ((Mode='RTTY' ) or (Mode='FT8'))

 

      73,

 

             Dave, AA6YQ

 

 

 

 

Re: SQL expression to find

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Band=40m

RTTY

FT8

+ Assuming you mean

"Show all 40m QSOs made in either RTTY or FT8", then the desired SQL expression is

(Band='40m') and ((Mode='RTTY' ) or (Mode='FT8'))

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

SQL expression to find

Email Service <jfriend31@...>
 

Band=40m

RTTY

FT8

 

I have tried

 

(Band='40m') and Mode='RTTY' and Mode='FT8"

 

Which results in error

 

Please correct my “grammar.”

 

Thank you,

Jack ak7o

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Private: Re: [DXLab] monitor 60M for new DXCC

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2020-01-16 3:50 PM, ve3ki wrote:
Why not just quote the FCC rules?
Part 97.303(h),
(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur
stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified
in the table below. In order to meet this requirement, control
operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions
(emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively)
may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as
specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission designator
150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions do not occupy
more than 2.8 kHz centered on each of these center frequencies.

60 M Band Frequencies (kHz)
Carrier Center
5330.5 5332.0
5346.5 5348.0
5357.0 5358.5
5371.5 5373.0
5403.5 5405.0
Part 97.303(h)(2),
(2) Amateur stations transmitting on the 60 m band must not cause harmful interference to, and must accept interference from, stations authorized by:
(i) The United States (NTIA and FCC) and other nations in the fixed service; and
(ii) Other nations in the mobile except aeronautical mobile service.
part 97.221(c)
(c) Except for channels specified in §97.303(h), a station may be
automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission
on any other frequency authorized for such emission types provided
that:
Again, ARRL have *on multiple occasions* reported communications from
FCC Enforcement staff (and NTIA who are responsible for the "60 M
band") reminding US licensed amateurs that 97.303(h) requires using
*identical* audio frequency and carrier offsets so that the transmitted
signal is centered exactly on the middle of the assigned "Channel" -
not generating a random offset within a 2.7 KHz "band".

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-01-16 3:50 PM, ve3ki wrote:
Why not just quote the FCC rules?
Part 97.303(h), first sentence, and part 97.221(c), first sentence.
73,
Rich VE3KI
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 02:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Is this word for word from a rule or interpretive guideline (please
cite the reference), or your interpretation of something else? >
<Begin quote>:
The use of any of the 60 meter "channels" as a 3 KHz wide CW/digital
band or for ACDS (automatically controlled digital operations) is
*ILLEGAL* for *ANY* amateur station licensed by the United States.
<End quote>
The statement was my paraphrase of what ARRL have posted both on-line
at ARRL.org and printed in QST on multiple occasions. If you have a
disagreement, take it up with them.


Suffice it to say, while I personally follow the 1500 Hz approach,
and as a very active 60m FT8 operator with hundreds of qsos, 99% of
the USA stations I work are not transmitting on 1500 Hz exclusively,
nor am I aware of any enforcement actions taken against them.
I expect to see active enforcement of this rule (among others) as
the new Amateur Auxiliary (replacement for the old Official Observer
program but with designated enforcement authority from the FCC and
headed by Rudy Hollingsworth) gets up and running.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

Re: Internet Stack

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I have a second machine that has a full install of DXLabs. I just tried the ctrl+ Sync LOTW QSL's process and after 2 seconds I
received the blue spinning circle and the download finished as it should.

On my shack computer the countdown sometimes goes to 56 seconds before I get the time out message, which seems should be long enough
for LOTW to stop the time out.

Is there a setting somewhere that could be effecting this?

+ I don't know, Julio. Microsoft Support may be able to answer your question.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ