Re: Ham M rotor to DXView

Bill Pence

I suspect you are correct...
But it was a great discussion!

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 1:51 PM BILL KENNAMER <k5fuv@...> wrote:
I suspect the original poster wants something plug and play, like the Green Heron or hygain digital box, not a diy solution.


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On Wednesday, August 25, 2021, 9:09 AM, Bill Pence <pence.bill@...> wrote:

Unsure if the original poster Steven KN0L is still following...
(If so, can you tell us what direction you are thinking? The hygain dcu3 would be plug and play I suspect but pricy. The diy method is certainly workable...)

I see the ground issue. Dang.

Maybe the async adc readings and averaging in Arduino would mostly overcome this?

I suspect the k3ng should be taking several readings to average the direction readings.

I've not dug into the rotor code. I did not have big issues with the hd73 but the AC on ground would likely have been less, and my rotor cable was a bit sorter as the tower was not high then.

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 10:00 AM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...> wrote:

 > I'd short 4 to 7 to always have metering.

That was a "standard" modification to the old HAM-M control box.

 > Arduino analog input from pin 3. Cap to ground to help smoothing of
 > reading perhaps.

Cap between terminal 3 (pot high) and 7 (ground/wiper) is not
effective since the AC is modulation on ground (ground shift)
relative to the Arduino reference ground.  One needs to minimize
the AC voltage generated due to the ~7.5A in the resistance of
the wire connecting terminal 1 from the controller to rotator
as that AC is in series with the directional DC.

With the Hy-Gain recommended wire size (#18 up to 125', #16 to 200'
and #14 to 300') the resistance in the terminal 1 connection can be
0.8 Ohms which results in several volts of AC *in series* with the
meter DC.


    ... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-08-25 9:21 AM, Bill Pence wrote:
> I see the logic to just use a cap and transformer and remove the
> controller box entirely.
> You could use the cap and transformer in the existing box.....
> But the rework is not tough.
> I'd short 4 to 7 to always have metering.
> Then brake relay connects 6 to 7
> Then right (ccw?) Relay shorts 1 to 2 and left (cw?) Shorts 2 to 3.
> Voltage divider on 3 to ground to provide 0 to 5 for Arduino input.
> Alternatively, no controller box. 5v on pin 7.
> Arduino analog input from pin 3. Cap to ground to help smoothing of
> reading perhaps.
> Motor Cap connects between pins 4 and 8.
> Transformer "low side" connects to pin 1
> 3 SPST relays needed
> Transformer "high side" connects to normally open on all 3 relays.
> Common on brake relay connects to pin 2
> Direction relays connect to pins 5 and 6.
> Not super hard.
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 11:15 PM Dave Fugleberg <davefugleberg@...
> <mailto:davefugleberg@...>> wrote:
>     The single lever controller would require a little rework but should
>     be do-able.
>     The single lever is just a spring-loaded rotary switch, where there
>     is no contact between any pins when it's at the center (resting)
>     position.
>     Unlike the newer controllers with the three paddle-style buttons,
>     the single lever does not energize the meter circuit unless you move
>     the lever partway right or left. This also energizes (releases) the
>     brake.  Pushing the lever all the way right or left keeps that
>     energized, and also engages the motor CW or CCW. You could easily
>     put the CW and CCW dry contact relays across those two portions of
>     the switch. However, nothing would happen unless you also energize
>     the rest of the controller.
>     There are two transformers in that unit - Power and Instrument.
>     Both have 110 volt primaries. The Power transformer has a 26 volt
>     secondary and powers the motor and brake.  TheInstrument transformer
>     is 23 volts and is physically smaller (lower current capacity) and
>     powers the metering circuit and lights.  The primaries are wired in
>     parallel - moving the lever right OR left connects one side of each
>     primary to one blade of the (nonpolarized) power cord. The other
>     blade of the power cord is permanently connected to the other side
>     both primaries through a fuse.
>     So, if you want to retrofit such a controller, I'd suggest
>     bypassing/replacing the lever switch altogether. Add a toggle switch
>     to energize the primaries of both transformers, a relay to disengage
>     the brake (secondary of power transformer to rotor terminal 2), a
>     relay for clockwise (power transformer secondary to rotor terminal
>     6) and a relay for counterclockwise (power transformer secondary to
>     rotor terminal 5). Those three relays would be driven by the
>     interface of your choice, such as the K3NG Arduino interface. This
>     would also provide a continuous meter indication (rather than only
>     when you move the lever).
>     There are known issues with ripple on the directional pot on the
>     rotor because the center of the pot is common with the motor common
>     terminal. I've seen some blog postings about various ways to deal
>     with that but haven't really looked into it. Shouldn't be too
>     difficult with some filtering.
>     If I can get around to it, I may do just that with one of my old
>     Ham-M controllers so I can use it for the azimuth rotor of the
>     satellite station I'm slowly automating.
>     Note - there were more than one series of that controller, and they
>     are NOT all identical. The above refers to the Series 5 controller,
>     which I believe was the last one of the single lever ones. The
>     numbering in the schematic I have does not make much sense when
>     looking at the actual switch, but it's pretty easy to trace and
>     figure out what is what. I have a picture of the inside of one of
>     mine, and I documented which wire goes where, but your mileage may vary.
>     Good luck whichever way you choose to go !
>     73 de W0ZF
>     On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 6:56 PM Bill Pence <pence.bill@...
>     <mailto:pence.bill@...>> wrote:
>         Not sure I'd agree with that.
>         I'd need to find the schematic, but I'd think the switches are
>         configured as:
>         Left a bit, brake engage, left more, rotated
>           slight release, stop rotate, hold bake
>         Center off
>         Right a bit, brake, right a bit more, rotate.
>           slight release, stop rotate, hold bake
>         The k3ng / arduino relay outputs are all dry contacts,
>         So connecting to the switch terminals should be straightfirward.
>         If you want to send my links to schematics
>         I can check and I might need good photos to show where the relay
>         wires connect.
>         Would he happy to help.
>         If course you can always buy a hy-gain dcu3 instead. I still
>         like building stuff.
>         On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:36 PM Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@...
>         <mailto:lists@...>> wrote:
>             That single lever is a two section rotary switch - very
>             difficult
>             to interface with any of the after market boards.  You will
>             probably
>             do best with a replacement controller.  If you choose to
>             build your
>             own from one of the K3NG articles, note that you will need
>             to find
>             a 24V AC @ 5-6A transformer (not particularly common these days)
>             and possibly the appropriate transformer/rectifier for the
>             direction
>             sensing circuit.
>             73,
>                  ... Joe, W4TV
>             On 2021-08-24 12:39 PM, St. Cuda wrote:
>              > [Edited Message Follows]
>              >
>              > Brown with one lever, big meter that is 180-0-180 or S to
>             N to S.
>              >
>              >

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