Moving home..bigger garden in sticks ..k9ay’s??


Simon
 

Hi

as is live in east London with big mag loops and 6 various rx antennas. Cardioid loops and crossed parallel loops.

i use for low band operating (160-40)

next year a move to bigger qth with big garden on the cards. Getting stuff ready!

tx will be using verticals with extensive ground radials.more likely an inverted L for 160 due to not buying a farm!

but for rx..I suspect will not have enough room for beverages..( not buying a farm) 

so main aim is low angle radiation on rx antennas to hear dx on 160..hopefully the area we move to is low noise..

looking at replacing my rx loops with k9ay array.maybe 3 with them in a triangle position in garden ( space allowing) so can phase them in 4 directions..the main k9ay will be in the “ centre “ ( switchable 4 directions) and the 2 others off the sides making a triangle.
will use ( as have made one) the lz1aq delay line unit..see lz1aq site for info, he uses to switch small loops.

before going ahead and buying stuff to take ( 7m poles etc) has anyone on here had experience with the k9ay’s?

the k9ay’s will be cat5e connected with suitable transformers ( i find proper setup cat5 to be much quieter and cheaper than using coax, i use it here on my rx loop preamps.)

also will i need preamps on the k9ay’s? 


Thank you Simon g0zen  


Chris Moulding
 

For the best results with K9AY antennas it's best to use a preamp.

We are about to release a suitable preamp called the Flag Antenna Amplifier.

It's similar to our other amplifiers with a built in common mode choke and correct matching for a flag antenna such as the K9AY. It also isolates the antenna from the usual RF noise coming up the coax feeder.

I've got all the photos and info to prepare a web page for it and also one using the amplifier in a W2PM Mini-Flag antenna. This has a cardioid pattern but the pattern is wideband and is unaffected by frequency changes unlike the CSA design cardioid loop I've written about on a web page before.

I should get the web pages written this week so I'll post on the forum when they are available.

Regards,

Chris



On 22 Nov 2021, at 11:28, Simon <ohhellnotagain@...> wrote:

Hi

as is live in east London with big mag loops and 6 various rx antennas. Cardioid loops and crossed parallel loops.

i use for low band operating (160-40)

next year a move to bigger qth with big garden on the cards. Getting stuff ready!

tx will be using verticals with extensive ground radials.more likely an inverted L for 160 due to not buying a farm!

but for rx..I suspect will not have enough room for beverages..( not buying a farm) 

so main aim is low angle radiation on rx antennas to hear dx on 160..hopefully the area we move to is low noise..

looking at replacing my rx loops with k9ay array.maybe 3 with them in a triangle position in garden ( space allowing) so can phase them in 4 directions..the main k9ay will be in the “ centre “ ( switchable 4 directions) and the 2 others off the sides making a triangle.
will use ( as have made one) the lz1aq delay line unit..see lz1aq site for info, he uses to switch small loops.

before going ahead and buying stuff to take ( 7m poles etc) has anyone on here had experience with the k9ay’s?

the k9ay’s will be cat5e connected with suitable transformers ( i find proper setup cat5 to be much quieter and cheaper than using coax, i use it here on my rx loop preamps.)

also will i need preamps on the k9ay’s? 


Thank you Simon g0zen  


Simon
 

Hi Chris

Let me know when done..

Currently the noise here on the big mag loop on 160 is 10 over 9!!
On all the cardioid’s its s9 bar one of them (4 in total)

The crossed parallel in the corner of front garden is ok though..s2..i know its either vdsl or someone got a real BAD smpsu..its so strong..I suspect the cardioid loops are coupling to the big mag loop but the crossed is not as further away.

Even the noise cancellation devices do not really help the mag loop BUT do help against the cardioids..

Cant wait to move!! Less crime, no gangs on scooters no rf noise!! Well atleast much less! Better lifestyle, surfing again..can play in my land rover!!

Simon


David Cutter
 

I'm in the market for these.  I have a K9AY in one corner of a field and a pair of flags at right angles in the other corner for diversity reception.  This is in preparation for my remote station in a friend's QTH...far from the madding crowd.

David G3UNA

On 22 November 2021 at 11:44 Chris Moulding <chrism@...> wrote:

For the best results with K9AY antennas it's best to use a preamp.

We are about to release a suitable preamp called the Flag Antenna Amplifier.

It's similar to our other amplifiers with a built in common mode choke and correct matching for a flag antenna such as the K9AY. It also isolates the antenna from the usual RF noise coming up the coax feeder.

I've got all the photos and info to prepare a web page for it and also one using the amplifier in a W2PM Mini-Flag antenna. This has a cardioid pattern but the pattern is wideband and is unaffected by frequency changes unlike the CSA design cardioid loop I've written about on a web page before.

I should get the web pages written this week so I'll post on the forum when they are available.

Regards,

Chris



On 22 Nov 2021, at 11:28, Simon < ohhellnotagain@...> wrote:

Hi

as is live in east London with big mag loops and 6 various rx antennas. Cardioid loops and crossed parallel loops.

i use for low band operating (160-40)

next year a move to bigger qth with big garden on the cards. Getting stuff ready!

tx will be using verticals with extensive ground radials.more likely an inverted L for 160 due to not buying a farm!

but for rx..I suspect will not have enough room for beverages..( not buying a farm) 

so main aim is low angle radiation on rx antennas to hear dx on 160..hopefully the area we move to is low noise..

looking at replacing my rx loops with k9ay array.maybe 3 with them in a triangle position in garden ( space allowing) so can phase them in 4 directions..the main k9ay will be in the “ centre “ ( switchable 4 directions) and the 2 others off the sides making a triangle.
will use ( as have made one) the lz1aq delay line unit..see lz1aq site for info, he uses to switch small loops.

before going ahead and buying stuff to take ( 7m poles etc) has anyone on here had experience with the k9ay’s?

the k9ay’s will be cat5e connected with suitable transformers ( i find proper setup cat5 to be much quieter and cheaper than using coax, i use it here on my rx loop preamps.)

also will i need preamps on the k9ay’s? 


Thank you Simon g0zen  


 


 


Simon
 

Hi again

At home today.holiday..

So been playing with noise cancellation, big mag loop on 160 and noise antennas

Got the 24 hr s9 plus crap smpsu on the big loop removed.just atmospheric noise now at s4..its really difficult at night to judge as so much more atmospheric noise that gets confused with local noise..ie short nvis crap from all of london! ( smpsu noise is not just local..if there is enough of it..)


Will see how that goes at night..

Simon g0zen


Nick G4IRX
 

Would you mind sharing some more on your CAT5E feeder and transformers please Simon? Do you use the same cable for power?

Thanks
Nick


Simon
 

Hi Nick

Yes i do use for power too..it’s designed for that..if using outside BUY external use cable ONLY or uv kills it!!

Best useful info out there is on Lz1aq website..read the common mode choke bit too..proper works!

Download all his info and spend next week or reading..Chris also likes said cable, but most hams are “ frightened “ of it..


Nick G4IRX
 

Thanks Simon, I'll take a look over there, I recall Chris's AAs using CAT5. I'm quite familiar with the external variety for signal + PoE applications, I have quite a few offcuts lying around that could be used for this.

73
Nick


Simon
 

Well.. smpsu noise back.. noise cancellation does not work at night..

I suspect high noise floor on big mag loop is nvis smpsu noise from surrounding area..hence noise cancellation will not work..
Yet it does on cardioid loops with much less nvis pick up..hmmm to be investigated..

Re cat5e..or cat6e etc..

Its good for 100m plus long. It is basically immune from picking up noise.it will carry control voltage ( designed too.) it has 4 twisted copper pairs..it is low loss..
It has 100r impedance across one pair of wires.. so you need a 50 to 100r transformer..you use isolated transformer..TALKING rf here not control voltage..
On control voltage pair/ pairs then you decouple at both ends.
A common mode choke is best added at antenna end..best found so far is lz1aq type..easy to make..not always needed..

There is cat5e and cat5e..buy external use only..one can go better by buying individually wrapped pairs( in screen)

BUT be aware..capacitive coupling can cause losses etc on said cable on higher frequencies when long runs are used..i use only for low bands where it shines here compared to coax..PLUS it allows me to control my ( ccw inspired) cardioid loop directions via control unit.plus cheap plus easy to hide etc..

Buyer beware..ONLY buy solid copper external grade cat5/6e whatever..make sure it is screened ( will be ali foil screened, but that’s fine, has a tracer wire to use for screening)
ONLY buy proper make NO ebay bargains from China.( will end up being copper plated ali crap if lucky)

Maybe go see your local cctv install company?? Used in pro cctv installs for all the above reasons..and afterall what is a video signal??

Chris of ccw will help you if you wish to try..if remember correctly made amps for said cable..

Simon g0zen