Date   

Re: Ground rod on a loop

Chris Moulding
 

With a conventional loop using the Loop Antenna Amplifier + I would ground it at the loop with a connection between ground rod and the BNC connector screen.

This will ground any common mode RF noise coming down the coax from the station before the common mode choke in the amplifier.

It will also drain  any electrostatic charges to ground.

Regards,

Chris


Re: Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

Kev Haworth
 

Simon, oh yes, my favourite antenna is a vertical over salt. 

We used them on the GB0HI and GB2HI activations and to hear JA/VK coming over the top of local stations on 40M in the morning was something I won't forget in a hurry. I've used kite antennas for 160 too over salt, probably at the wrong time of year though as we were working stateside/EU stations only. When I buy my next transceiver, I will be portable from a local beach and will be out in the wintertime with the kites.

Just sorting some ideas out now as how to power / feed from the car to test the beverages over the same beaches,  will take a loop with me as well to switch to and from.


Ground rod on a loop

Kev Haworth
 

Reading the cardioid loop posts with interest, is it worth earthing a conventional loop (With LAA+)? If so, would it be better at point where coax enters the house or at the base of the loop?

Thanks


Re: Thanks to Chris #chat

Kev Haworth
 

Simon.. 

Where to start!
 590 VOCM, Sister Station CBGY on 750 were the first two. 1130 Bolomberg and of course WINS. I was picking lots up in the 1400 and higher, but the idents weren't forthcoming, tonight may well see me listening to 700 / 800 for Caribbean stuff, I just wish I could find a reasonably priced rotator now...


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Kev Haworth
 

Tom..

Try a search for 8mm Kunifer pipe, it's Cupro Nickel, self supporting and works well,

Kev


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated. I get the properties of Pex, but for a number of reasons, I don’t want to introduce new materials at this time.

I’ve got to build this with materials I have to hand. This is a Scrapheap Antenna Challenge.

My main query was about what wire would give me the best upgrade in signal pickup

  • 2.5mm2  stranded earth wire.
  • UR43M Coax (like RG58) 5mm OD.

The hose was just to be a former to hold multiple cores together but that’s probably going to be too heavy for my support. I guess that’s going to need work!

 

Tom G6PZZ

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Sayer
Sent: 06 February 2021 11:34
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Ready for Stage 2

 

I was lucky and got hold of free 25m roll of the stuff. Great for a loop. Very light and self supporting. 

 

Paul G0VKT 

 

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 09:12 leslie norton, <gm4jnw@...> wrote:

The material is called pex-al-pex its commonly used for under floor heating systems, ive used it and it works well, easily formed to whatever size you want.

Its got a thin aluminium lining, its a bit tricky to get a good joining for the coax but there is a link below to show you how one person joined it.

I have also used it with RG213 threaded inside it as a former and that works well too.

 

 

Look at Big fat loop down the page.

I bought mine as a coil from a local DIY plumbers, very cheap.

 

Les



On 6 Feb 2021, at 08:10, Facility 406 <facility_406@...> wrote:

 

"that would work well..someone will say its name..peta??"

PEX.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-3-4-in-x-100-ft-PEX-Tubing-Potable-Water-Pipe-Combo-1-Red-1-Blue-PPWRB34100/303337387

Excellent material, but, NOT for unsterilized water, as mold grows wildly in it.

VERY rugged, I use it to pass 12AWG power cable through vehicles.

Kurt




 


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Paul Sayer
 

I was lucky and got hold of free 25m roll of the stuff. Great for a loop. Very light and self supporting. 

Paul G0VKT 

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 09:12 leslie norton, <gm4jnw@...> wrote:
The material is called pex-al-pex its commonly used for under floor heating systems, ive used it and it works well, easily formed to whatever size you want.
Its got a thin aluminium lining, its a bit tricky to get a good joining for the coax but there is a link below to show you how one person joined it.
I have also used it with RG213 threaded inside it as a former and that works well too.


Look at Big fat loop down the page.
I bought mine as a coil from a local DIY plumbers, very cheap.

Les

On 6 Feb 2021, at 08:10, Facility 406 <facility_406@...> wrote:

"that would work well..someone will say its name..peta??"

PEX.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-3-4-in-x-100-ft-PEX-Tubing-Potable-Water-Pipe-Combo-1-Red-1-Blue-PPWRB34100/303337387

Excellent material, but, NOT for unsterilized water, as mold grows wildly in it.

VERY rugged, I use it to pass 12AWG power cable through vehicles.

Kurt







Re: Ready for Stage 2

leslie norton
 

The material is called pex-al-pex its commonly used for under floor heating systems, ive used it and it works well, easily formed to whatever size you want.
Its got a thin aluminium lining, its a bit tricky to get a good joining for the coax but there is a link below to show you how one person joined it.
I have also used it with RG213 threaded inside it as a former and that works well too.


Look at Big fat loop down the page.
I bought mine as a coil from a local DIY plumbers, very cheap.

Les

On 6 Feb 2021, at 08:10, Facility 406 <facility_406@...> wrote:

"that would work well..someone will say its name..peta??"

PEX.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-3-4-in-x-100-ft-PEX-Tubing-Potable-Water-Pipe-Combo-1-Red-1-Blue-PPWRB34100/303337387

Excellent material, but, NOT for unsterilized water, as mold grows wildly in it.

VERY rugged, I use it to pass 12AWG power cable through vehicles.

Kurt







Re: Ready for Stage 2

Facility 406
 

"that would work well..someone will say its name..peta??"

PEX.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Plumber-s-Choice-3-4-in-x-100-ft-PEX-Tubing-Potable-Water-Pipe-Combo-1-Red-1-Blue-PPWRB34100/303337387

Excellent material, but, NOT for unsterilized water, as mold grows wildly in it.

VERY rugged, I use it to pass 12AWG power cable through vehicles.

Kurt


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Oene Spoelstra <spoelstraoene@...>
 

Unicor

Op za 6 feb. 2021 03:18 schreef Simon <ohhellnotagain@...>:

Ok

lets assume you are going secret antenna.hense hose pipe..

i forget the name, but its same dia as hose pipe.plastic tubing with ali inner..plumbers stuff..

that would work well..someone will say its name..peta?? 

simon


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Oene Spoelstra <spoelstraoene@...>
 


Op za 6 feb. 2021 03:18 schreef Simon <ohhellnotagain@...>:

Ok

lets assume you are going secret antenna.hense hose pipe..

i forget the name, but its same dia as hose pipe.plastic tubing with ali inner..plumbers stuff..

that would work well..someone will say its name..peta?? 

simon


Re: Ccw cardioid loop..update from a user of..

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

I’m seeing very week carriers but nothing copyable. Hence the need to upgrade the loop.

Tom

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon
Sent: 06 February 2021 02:29
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Ccw cardioid loop..update from a user of..

 

Wondering..just had a listen on mw for stateside am broadcast stations..2am.. broadside big cardioid loops facing nw from london.
atleast 20 odd carriers from usa..( probably many more as stopped looking at 1030khz.) got bored looking as late.)10 plus readable..( some heavy qsb some not so bad..) when i say readable i mean can work out whats being said without too much trouble..the remaining 10 odd only 25% of audio copied ( very very heavy  qsb and qrm from elsewhere.)

is this good or bad or average?
no idea as normally just on 160m and never really attempted to hear usa am broadcast stations..

asking as testing antennas and also may well give good indication when 160 is open..

thanks simon


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Simon,

It’s 17 year Old Hozelock, yellow. It’s been sitting out for about three years whereas I always emptied it, before putting it back in the shed in it’s designated spot.

The Hose is simply to act as a former, hopefully in a circle of sorts. I might just forget it and go for an octagon.

Just thinking about the weight. Its indoors as well, remember. Its going to look chuffing silly with guy ropes holding it vertical 😊

How’s your Mum in Law? You’ll never guess what Mrs C has gone and done…

Admitted to hospital last Tuesday with really sever pains in her chest. A negative COVID test on entry. Diagnosed with a large blood clot in left lung. IV antibiotics, blood thinner injections daily, morphine, codeine and paracetamol for a week. This Tuesday she tested positive for COVID. Wednesday our GP rings to ask if she could have her first vaccine on Thursday. You couldn’t make it up…

At least she’s home now…still seething and I’m keeping my head down!

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon
Sent: 06 February 2021 02:18
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Ready for Stage 2

 

Ok

lets assume you are going secret antenna.hense hose pipe..

i forget the name, but its same dia as hose pipe.plastic tubing with ali inner..plumbers stuff..

that would work well..someone will say its name..peta?? 

simon


Re: Ccw cardioid loop..update from a user of..

Simon
 

Wondering..just had a listen on mw for stateside am broadcast stations..2am.. broadside big cardioid loops facing nw from london.
atleast 20 odd carriers from usa..( probably many more as stopped looking at 1030khz.) got bored looking as late.)10 plus readable..( some heavy qsb some not so bad..) when i say readable i mean can work out whats being said without too much trouble..the remaining 10 odd only 25% of audio copied ( very very heavy  qsb and qrm from elsewhere.)

is this good or bad or average?
no idea as normally just on 160m and never really attempted to hear usa am broadcast stations..

asking as testing antennas and also may well give good indication when 160 is open..

thanks simon


Re: Ready for Stage 2

Simon
 

Ok

lets assume you are going secret antenna.hense hose pipe..

i forget the name, but its same dia as hose pipe.plastic tubing with ali inner..plumbers stuff..

that would work well..someone will say its name..peta?? 

simon


Ready for Stage 2

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Looking for some tips guys!

Having built my first loop, I’m ready to “upgrade”. I gather that the more metal in the loop, the better?

The first loop used the wire supplied with the LAA+ in an inverse delta shape.

I have two current choices of conductor for the MkII. What would be the best choice?

 

2.5mm2 PVC covered stranded earth wire, or UR43M Coax

 

I could form these into an inverse delta as before. My other choice is forming a loop from 1” hosepipe and feeding as many lengths of cable into the pipe as I can.

I might get 3 or 4  pieces of earth wire into the hose and maybe 2 of coax. Three coax might be too tight but I could try.

All conductors will be crimped and soldered to 6mm ring terminals.  The loop will be formed by mounting the hose to a wooden cross using spring clips.

I’m a little worried this might end up more square than round but with more effort it could become octagonal, but at the risk of becoming heavier. I could always forget the hose!  

 

I know some of you are screaming “COPPER TUBE”!!! That can’t happen for a number of reasons.

 

73

 

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ

Nr Chesterfield, Derbyshire UK

Lat: 53.167194 Lon:  -1.399204  Maidenhead Locator IO93HE

RX: Lowe HF250, RSPdx, CCW Sentinel 4, Roberts RM50, Radiomobile TR2, Sony CDX-DAB500U Sangean 808

Ant: 15m MLB wire, MTA Vertical, D707 Active,

 


Re: Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

Simon
 

If you can..and its rf quiet a vertical over salt water will be stunning..( and easy to put to to check.)


Re: Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

I don’t want to rub salt water into wounds (pun intended – shoot me!) but there are few people on the IRCA group who may argue with the effectiveness of a Beachfront Beverage. Have a listen to the Masset Kiwi which I think has a Beverage on the beachfront. You’ll find it at http://209.53.83.138:8073

 

Tom G6PZZ

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moulding
Sent: 04 February 2021 20:06
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

 

Beverage antennas don't really work over salt water or beaches.

They rely on the incoming radio wavefront penetrating the ground. Due to the change in the speed of light (radio) in a dielectric (soil) the wavefront tiltsno tilting occurs.

This allows a horizontal wire on or very close to the ground to receive the signal.

Over saltwater or beaches the wavefront doesn't penetrate the ground or water so no tilting occurs for the Beverage antenna to work.

Depending on your location it might be worth trying one on sand dunes near a beach. Relatively dry sand will act as a dielectric allowing a Beverage antenna to work.

Regards,

Chris


Re: Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

Kev Haworth
 

Challenge accepted!

Will e-meither you over next few days.

Kev


Re: Antenna amplifier for Beverage and large cardioid loop antennas

Chris Moulding
 

Beverage antennas don't really work over salt water or beaches.

They rely on the incoming radio wavefront penetrating the ground. Due to the change in the speed of light (radio) in a dielectric (soil) the wavefront tiltsno tilting occurs.

This allows a horizontal wire on or very close to the ground to receive the signal.

Over saltwater or beaches the wavefront doesn't penetrate the ground or water so no tilting occurs for the Beverage antenna to work.

Depending on your location it might be worth trying one on sand dunes near a beach. Relatively dry sand will act as a dielectric allowing a Beverage antenna to work.

Regards,

Chris

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