Date   

File /My First Loop.pdf uploaded #file-notice

CrossCountryWireless@groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the CrossCountryWireless@groups.io group.

By: Chris Moulding

Description:
A description by Tom Crosbie G6PZZ of a simple loop antenna using the Loop Antenna Amplifier + and the wire that ships with it to make an indoor loop.


My First Loop

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Well, the subject says it all. I’ve built my first loop. My LAA+ arrived yesterday so today I spent a couple of hours knocking up a simple loop from wire supplied with the amplifier, and scraps of wood I had laying around.

For those first timers like me, I’ve documented what I’ve done so far in the hope that others might use it as inspiration or at least a starting point. I’m open to critique.

 

73

 

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ

Nr Chesterfield, Derbyshire UK

Lat: 53.167194 Lon:  -1.399204  Maidenhead Locator IO93HE

RX: Lowe HF250, RSPdx, CCW Sentinel 4, Roberts RM50, Radiomobile TR2, Sony CDX-DAB500U Sangean 808

Ant: 15m MLB wire, MTA Vertical, D707 Active,

 


Re: Trying to contact CCW

Ian Conn
 

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.  Glad to hear that you are ok and able to do some business.

My friend and I have just put orders in for multicouplers.

 

Thanks & Regards, Ian

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Moulding
Sent: 20 January 2021 19:28
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Trying to contact CCW

 

Hi Ian,

I can confirm that Cross Country Wireless is still operating at a reduced level due to the Covid-19 restrictions.

Usually we have a busy workshop but it's down to one person only as I'm in the "at risk" group so we are focusing on Loop Antenna Amplifiers and Multicouplers.

I'm trying to keep up with emails but I know that I'm well behind at present.

In addition to minimise the risk from Covid-19 we are only shipping once a week every Tuesday for the foreseeable future.

Regarding Loop Antenna Amplifiers and Multicouplers we do have a stock of them so we can accept orders ready for shipping on the following Tuesday.

Regards,

Chris

 


Re: Trying to contact CCW

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Chris has been responding to queries on this and the loopantennas group.

I ordered a loop amplifier on Monday afternoon and it arrived today.

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian Conn via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:23
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: [CrossCountryWireless] Trying to contact CCW

 

Looking for some advice please.

My friend and I have been trying to contact CCW by email and phone this year and have not had any luck.
I am interested in the multicouplers.
Are CCW able to do business at the moment ?

Regards, Ian Conn

Baldock, Herts, UK


Re: Trying to contact CCW

Chris Moulding
 

Hi Ian,

I can confirm that Cross Country Wireless is still operating at a reduced level due to the Covid-19 restrictions.

Usually we have a busy workshop but it's down to one person only as I'm in the "at risk" group so we are focusing on Loop Antenna Amplifiers and Multicouplers.

I'm trying to keep up with emails but I know that I'm well behind at present.

In addition to minimise the risk from Covid-19 we are only shipping once a week every Tuesday for the foreseeable future.

Regarding Loop Antenna Amplifiers and Multicouplers we do have a stock of them so we can accept orders ready for shipping on the following Tuesday.

Regards,

Chris


Trying to contact CCW

Ian Conn
 

Looking for some advice please.

My friend and I have been trying to contact CCW by email and phone this year and have not had any luck.
I am interested in the multicouplers.
Are CCW able to do business at the moment ?

Regards, Ian Conn

Baldock, Herts, UK


Re: Tips to improve LAA+ Performance?

Jon Hall
 

Only had my LAA+ for a short time .

Before that started with a mla30 - that got me started on a loop.
Initially 'ok' results ... but have now replaced the wire loop with some stainless steel strap that was hanging in the shed.
Pleased with the results - only in the loft space - but luckily we're on a farm so not much noise here.
Its all connected to an sdrplay/uno
All good fun in these lock-down times.

atb Jon G0MYW


Re: Mag Loop and other info

Simon
 

Like the idea of a 12 by 4 loop!

How the ell did you mount that up???got any pics????love to see!!

Interesting website you pointed out..

But need to point out below, incase someone reading and thinks wants to make a tx mag loop.

Totally disagree in his mag loop building..lots of ways in how to build an inefficient mag loop..( except for the connection to vac cap, but even that was flawed..)
Like the idea of mobile loop..though not sure about having one above my head!

Need to say why I think his loops inefficient..joins..plumbers solder. Use of ali use of copper water pipe...no no..

Must be one continuous loop ( can be parallel tubed, can be twin turn on 160m.) no joins..no ali ( twice r of copper, plus one cant buy pure ali tubing ( or copper now, but one can better quality copper tubing.)
Never use copper water pipe.( cos its cheap for a reason..ie not pure by along way.) .never use lead solder..( must be silver 40-55%) no joins in loop ( except for loop to vac cap.) every join removes efficiency ..
(Plus his resistance of loop measurements are flawed..loop may have 50a running though not 0.5..)

However mag loops are great!! Ok if you can do what Carlo i5jva has on 160m then dont bother.( or hannas or john vy2ww etc.) .but i cant so i love mag loops..

Still a good interesting read though!!

Mag loop Simon


Mag Loop and other info

David Cutter
 

This site may help a few builders.  I just came across it an hour ago and have had only a cursory look. It contains a lot of useful info on other topics as well.  You need to scroll down to section 7.  https://www.qrz.com/db/k4hkx


Just for amusement I built an aluminium strip loop using a 12ft x 4ft 20swg aluminium sheet forming a tube 4ft long by ~4ft diameter.  Tuning accomplished with several interleaving vanes 4ft long by 4" wide attached to the open ends of the tube. It was a monster.  Eventually I got it to work in a contest on 20m and it had a 48dB front to back ratio to null out the noisiest of Mediterranean and Russian mega-stations.  The pick up loop started life as 4ft square 20swg aluminium sheet to form a tube 4ft long by ~1ft diameter.   Then I moved house and scrapped it and I'm still using bits of aluminium from it 30 years later. Crazy days, fun and educational on several levels, ie learn by doing. 

73 David G3UNA


Re: Help making a decision

Tom Crosbie G6PZZ
 

Decision made, order placed! Gone for STD rather than VLF

Thanks all.

Tom G6PZZ

 

From: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io <CrossCountryWireless@groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moulding
Sent: 16 January 2021 13:04
To: CrossCountryWireless@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrossCountryWireless] Help making a decision

 

Tom,

If you are using the loop antenna inside you will not need the extra gain of the base unit.

The extra gain is really only useful for an inefficient loop or insensitive receivers. I know of one customer who uses one with  a 1930s regenerative receiver with remarkable results!

Regards,

Chris


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Simon
 

Hi

Its a possibility..but issue is finding space in the nw/se direction..
Sw/ne not a problem..( long( ish.) very thin front garden ..


Simon


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Martin - G8JNJ
 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Simon wrote:
looks like the sla is not suitable for my gth..space and not in open.
the loops will have to do
Hi Simon,

As they only have one central support pole and the elements are made from wire, I'd suggest that it could perhaps be easier to conceal by incorporating it as a garden 'feature'.

In December I saw some LED illuminated 'skeleton' Christmas trees that looked very similar.

Regards,

Martin


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Simon
 

Hi Chris

Thank you..

Simon


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Chris Moulding
 

Tomorrow evening (I don't have time this evening or tomorrow) I'll use the 4NEC2 antenna modelling tool to model two cardioid loops in end fire and broadside configurations.

I'll set it up so that users can easily change loop spacings, loop height and loop size.

I'll report back tomorrow evening and add the 4NEC2 files to the cardioid loop web page.

Regards,

Chris


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Simon
 

Hi Chris

I think that may be a good guess about copying..but a patent should have covered that?

Ok then..let’s assume 110r it is..
Let’s assume loop can be anything, so mine will be copper tube as self supporting.( with plastic separator at top and 110r.) and have lots of.

Is there on your modelling/ testing an optional height? C and s show it low to gnd.

Any luck on broadside spacing..come up here with nothing other than Martin..ie min 14m..
Modelling??

May well also alter my endfire array to use cardioid loops..again nw direction..makes them smaller and more directional, though will lose nw se choice..but would like to try broadside first

Also (SORRY.) anything to gain with increasing cardioid loop dia? Say 1.5m?

Thank you Simon


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Chris Moulding
 

From the information I have on the C & S loop antennas they use a two loop design to reduce the inductance so that it resonates with the capacitance across the loop ends above 30 MHz.

An article in the RSGB RadCom Technical Topics (I do miss that!) by one of the C & S engineers who was also a radio amateur stated that the resistance at the top of the loop was 110 ohms.

This ties in with my antenna modelling and prototype antenna for best front to back ratio.

I don't know where the idea of it being an inductance came from. Maybe when it was first launched to avoid copying of the design?

Regards,

Chris


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Simon
 

Hi David

looks like the sla is not suitable for my gth..space and not in open.
the loops will have to do...until  we eventually move.

preamps i use have good imd and sensitivity..looking forward to trying out a pair of Chris’s new ones when ready..

i have the cardioid loop now working..altered input matching to prreamps.

would love to get more info on the c and s cardioid loop.
it must work differently to Chris  design due to they state needs low inductance loop ( and shows 2 parallel loops to lower the inductance)..and Chris design does not.
seems to state they use inductance at top and not a resistor, though that is vague.

Mag loop Simon 


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

David Cutter
 

Simon

Re sensitivity / signal strength v f/b ratio: if you have a good amplifier then sensitivity might not be an issue.  I would rather reduce strength of other signals getting in to increase signal to noise ratio.  It's also useful to prevent overload in the amplifier chain, though Chris's amplifiers are good in this respect. 

David G3UNA

On 16 January 2021 at 21:48 Simon <ohhellnotagain@...> wrote:

Hi Chris and Martin  and anyone else reading

i can get 14m separation on broadside..for 2..( at a push!)

i have now mounted the cardioid loop up at 3m to base, ( was 1.5m) so now sense aerial is longer..this has  ( will recheck) reduced the nulls on the sides, but increased the back to front ratio..b to f about 15db on 160m..( was 12.)
i would rather have the greater nulls broadside to the loop, but if the forward gain is better at 3m then that is a winner..( to be checked.)

i notice the c and s design uses a low inductance loop.( 3 parallel ali bars welded together.) it also mentions using inductance at top rather than resistance..

any thoughts on this??

looking good now..just need 160 to open to usa..


As is now..facing sw. yes pic on side..
Simon 


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

David Cutter
 

It's been around for a few years now and has undergone a little massaging. Need to take care of the mechanics of stringing wires and cords in the air but I'm told they work well, if quite expensive. Sensitive to sloping ground and reflections from nearby objects.

David G3UNA

On 16 January 2021 at 23:03 Simon <ohhellnotagain@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Martin

Shared apex loop looks interesting..

Simon


Re: Covid..and making phased loop antenna array..

Simon
 

Hi Martin

Shared apex loop looks interesting..

Simon

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