Topics

Starting Problems in Morning

Bud Martin
 

My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions Bud

crosleyshortsport
 

Bud,  When "cold", if you have a tillotson carb, you must fully choke it to start, and immediatly push the choke in once started. 


On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 3:36 PM Bud Martin via Groups.Io <bud_martin2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions  Bud




Jim Bollman
 

On my Tilly I usually full choke till it fires then push into a little less than half choke and hit the starter again if it doesn't catch the next time repeat. It is easy to flood.

On Jul 1, 2019, at 9:19 PM, crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Bud,  When "cold", if you have a tillotson carb, you must fully choke it to start, and immediatly push the choke in once started. 

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 3:36 PM Bud Martin via Groups.Io <bud_martin2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions  Bud





PATRICIA GRITTI
 

How to start a Crosley? My engine has a Carter WO carb. When Barry Seel built my engine he rebuilt the carb. All the choke / gas pedal combinations I've tried won't start the engine cold unless I give a squirt of starting fluid. Would someone give a "fix" or the proper starting sequence for the Carter carb?
Don Gritti

On July 1, 2019 at 9:44 PM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

On my Tilly I usually full choke till it fires then push into a little less than half choke and hit the starter again if it doesn't catch the next time repeat. It is easy to flood.

On Jul 1, 2019, at 9:19 PM, crosleyshortsport < crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Bud,  When "cold", if you have a tillotson carb, you must fully choke it to start, and immediatly push the choke in once started. 

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 3:36 PM Bud Martin via Groups.Io <bud_martin2001= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions  Bud






 

 

mcgladdery3@...
 

What type of gas are you using. I use AV100 my 47 pick-up starts right up.

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io <Crosley-Gang@groups.io> On Behalf Of PATRICIA GRITTI
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2019 7:21 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io; Jim Bollman <Jim@...>
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Starting Problems in Morning

 

How to start a Crosley? My engine has a Carter WO carb. When Barry Seel built my engine he rebuilt the carb. All the choke / gas pedal combinations I've tried won't start the engine cold unless I give a squirt of starting fluid. Would someone give a "fix" or the proper starting sequence for the Carter carb?
Don Gritti


On July 1, 2019 at 9:44 PM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

On my Tilly I usually full choke till it fires then push into a little less than half choke and hit the starter again if it doesn't catch the next time repeat. It is easy to flood.



On Jul 1, 2019, at 9:19 PM, crosleyshortsport < crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

 

Bud,  When "cold", if you have a tillotson carb, you must fully choke it to start, and immediatly push the choke in once started. 

 

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 3:36 PM Bud Martin via Groups.Io <bud_martin2001= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions  Bud



 


 


 

seb fontana
 

Check ignition timing.

PATRICIA GRITTI
 

Hi
If your suggestion to check ignition timing is to help me fix no cold starts with my Carter WO carburetor, Thank you. Unfortunately, there are a few factors that may working with ignition less than simple. When Barry Seel built my engine he said compression is + ten to one. That is why I use premium fuel. He also installed a cam that is "hotter" than a stock cam. After the engine is running idle is normal. Idle is not "rolly".That says the cam is not too extreme. With the above information would you suggest that I advance timing or retard it to improve cold starting?
Don Gritti

On July 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM "seb fontana via Groups.Io" <speedoo51@...> wrote:

Check ignition timing.

 

Butch
 

Howdy Don,

I have built engines with that same camshaft, that Barry uses.

While it IS a very good cam, and offers a good performance gain, over the stock Crosley cam, it is FAR from radical and requires nor benefits from changes in ignition timing.

Now, please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try to run, but dies when you release the starter? More information, please.

Butch

On 7/2/2019 5:42 PM, PATRICIA GRITTI wrote:
Hi
If your suggestion to check ignition timing is to help me fix no cold starts with my Carter WO carburetor, Thank you. Unfortunately, there are a few factors that may working with ignition less than simple. When Barry Seel built my engine he said compression is + ten to one. That is why I use premium fuel. He also installed a cam that is "hotter" than a stock cam. After the engine is running idle is normal. Idle is not "rolly".That says the cam is not too extreme. With the above information would you suggest that I advance timing or retard it to improve cold starting?
Don Gritti

Butch
 

Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch

On 7/1/2019 3:35 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps

Any suggestions Bud

PATRICIA GRITTI
 

Hi Butch
Thank you for jumping in.
The carb is a Carter WO, the one listed in the Crosley shop manual. The engine cranks a long time with no activity. Notice there is no smell of gas after the engine is cranked. When the choke is closed there is 1/8" opening between the choke and the carb wall. After the engine starts by using starting fluid it runs & idles fine.
Don

On July 2, 2019 at 7:02 PM "Butch via Groups.Io" <butch46988@...> wrote:



Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try
to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch
On 7/1/2019 3:35 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps
Any suggestions Bud


Butch
 

Don,

A couple of issues going on; 1, Crosleys are well known for the carbs going dry (both heat boiling the fuel out and leaking it out) when sitting for a period of time. If it's an extended period, often the fuel pumps seem to lose prime if the valves are good, I don't see how this happens, except the fuel boiling out due to its proximity to the exhaust manifold. This causes excessive cranking to bring fuel up from the tank and into the carb.

Starting fluid or a quick dump from a gas bottle (my personal choice) takes care of that and the faster speed of running vs cranking, gets it done MUCH faster.

2, Your choke should close COMPLETELY, with the knob pulled all of the way out. It's a quick adjustment to get it to do so.

The comment of "no gas smell", reassures me of the empty carb bowl.

A quick GOOD solution i, install an electric pump, back by the tank. It can either just have a button, for priming or can run full time, even to the point of replacing the mechanical pump.

Butch

On 7/2/2019 7:50 PM, PATRICIA GRITTI wrote:
Hi Butch
Thank you for jumping in.
The carb is a Carter WO, the one listed in the Crosley shop manual. The engine cranks a long time with no activity. Notice there is no smell of gas after the engine is cranked. When the choke is closed there is 1/8" opening between the choke and the carb wall. After the engine starts by using starting fluid it runs & idles fine.
Don
On July 2, 2019 at 7:02 PM "Butch via Groups.Io" <butch46988@...> wrote:



Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try
to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Bud Martin
 

Hi Butch -
At this point the car does start but it sometimes struggles to stay running - not sure what carb. I have - maybe you could let me know how to find out also is there a carb setting that I should be aware of- The point setting in the manual is 025 does that sound correct?

Bud  

ps love my 47

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 7:02:41 PM EDT, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:



Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try
to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch

On 7/1/2019 3:35 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
> My 47 sedan has a issue starting in the morning after sitting overnight - It rums well once I do get it started - did a tune-up - it has a spark and when pulling the fuel line it pumps
>
> Any suggestions  Bud





Butch
 

Howdy Bud,

Sorry for the delay, life sometimes gets in the way of fun stuff!

The spark plug gap is .025, the point gap is .020 to .024, with a dwell setting of 44 degrees. The point gap and changing it, will affect your timing.

Will you and your Crosley, be at Wauseon? We will be helping folks and instructing as we can.

Butch

On 7/3/2019 1:20 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Butch -
At this point the car does start but it sometimes struggles to stay running - not sure what carb. I have - maybe you could let me know how to find out also is there a carb setting that I should be aware of. The point setting in the manual is 025 does that sound correct?

Bud ??

ps love my 47

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 7:02:41 PM EDT, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:



Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try
to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Bud Martin
 

Thanks for the info- Will be away for the meet- also how do I tell what type of carb I have?


On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:

Howdy Bud,

Sorry for the delay, life sometimes gets in the way of fun stuff!

The spark plug gap is .025, the point gap is .020 to .024, with a dwell setting of 44 degrees. The point gap and changing it, will affect your timing.

Will you and your Crosley, be at Wauseon? We will be helping folks and instructing as we can.

Butch

On 7/3/2019 1:20 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Butch -
At this point the car does start but it sometimes struggles to stay running - not sure what carb. I have - maybe you could let me know how to find out also is there a carb setting that I should be aware of. The point setting in the manual is 025 does that sound correct?

Bud ??

ps love my 47

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019, 7:02:41 PM EDT, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:



Howdy Bud,

Please, better define you starting problems.

Long cranking, without firing? Will fire, but not keep running? Will try
to run, but dies when you release the starter?

Also, what carburetor have you got, Carter or Tillotson?

More information, please.

Butch

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Butch
 

Howdy Bud,

A couple of different ways. Easiest is, look the carb over well, it should say either Carter or Tillotson on it somewhere. The Tillotson also has a model number stamped into the side.

The Carter had the model number on a tag, most of which a gone.

There is a difference in the size of the air horn, but without already knowing the difference, that's not much help.

The Tillotson, has a one piece, cast alloy body, with a cover plate, and two mixture adjusting screws, diagonally across from each other on the carb. One on top, the other on the bottom.

The Carter has a cast iron base, an alloy body, a cover plate and a separate air horn, that is attached by two screws.

Hopefully, that helps.

Butch

On 7/5/2019 1:10 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks for the info- Will be away for the meet- also how do I tell what type of carb I have?


On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:

Howdy Bud,

Sorry for the delay, life sometimes gets in the way of fun stuff!

The spark plug gap is .025, the point gap is .020 to .024, with a dwell setting of 44 degrees. The point gap and changing it, will affect your timing.

Will you and your Crosley, be at Wauseon? We will be helping folks and instructing as we can.

Butch

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Bud Martin
 

Thanks so much     bud

On Friday, July 5, 2019, 3:18:46 PM EDT, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:


Howdy Bud,

A couple of different ways. Easiest is, look the carb over well, it should say either Carter or Tillotson on it somewhere. The Tillotson also has a model number stamped into the side.

The Carter had the model number on a tag, most of which a gone.

There is a difference in the size of the air horn, but without already knowing the difference, that's not much help.

The Tillotson, has a one piece, cast alloy body, with a cover plate, and two mixture adjusting screws, diagonally across from each other on the carb. One on top, the other on the bottom.

The Carter has a cast iron base, an alloy body, a cover plate and a separate air horn, that is attached by two screws.

Hopefully, that helps.

Butch

On 7/5/2019 1:10 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
Thanks for the info- Will be away for the meet- also how do I tell what type of carb I have?


On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:

Howdy Bud,

Sorry for the delay, life sometimes gets in the way of fun stuff!

The spark plug gap is .025, the point gap is .020 to .024, with a dwell setting of 44 degrees. The point gap and changing it, will affect your timing.

Will you and your Crosley, be at Wauseon? We will be helping folks and instructing as we can.

Butch

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Jim Bollman
 

This should help narrow down if is a Tilly or a Carter, still several variations of both but I think Butch hit the problem early on and you need to adjust your choke so it closes all the way. If you have a helper have them put their hand over the top of the carb while you crank it and see if it will fire.


Tillotson

Carter




A couple of different ways. Easiest is, look the carb over well, it should say either Carter or Tillotson on it somewhere. The Tillotson also has a model number stamped into the side.

The Carter had the model number on a tag, most of which a gone.

There is a difference in the size of the air horn, but without already knowing the difference, that's not much help.

The Tillotson, has a one piece, cast alloy body, with a cover plate, and two mixture adjusting screws, diagonally across from each other on the carb. One on top, the other on the bottom.

The Carter has a cast iron base, an alloy body, a cover plate and a separate air horn, that is attached by two screws.

Hopefully, that helps.

Butch


Bud Martin
 

It's a Tilly -  I must of had the points set wrong - after doing some adjusting and playing with the carb it runs well and starts like it use to in the morn.  Thanks for all your help

ps the tee at the bottom must be the fuel mixture??

On Friday, July 5, 2019, 3:54:32 PM EDT, Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:


This should help narrow down if is a Tilly or a Carter, still several variations of both but I think Butch hit the problem early on and you need to adjust your choke so it closes all the way. If you have a helper have them put their hand over the top of the carb while you crank it and see if it will fire.


Tillotson

Carter




A couple of different ways. Easiest is, look the carb over well, it should say either Carter or Tillotson on it somewhere. The Tillotson also has a model number stamped into the side.

The Carter had the model number on a tag, most of which a gone.

There is a difference in the size of the air horn, but without already knowing the difference, that's not much help.

The Tillotson, has a one piece, cast alloy body, with a cover plate, and two mixture adjusting screws, diagonally across from each other on the carb. One on top, the other on the bottom.

The Carter has a cast iron base, an alloy body, a cover plate and a separate air horn, that is attached by two screws.

Hopefully, that helps.

Butch


Butch
 

Bud,

The "TEE" at the bottom, is the high speed mixture screw. The screw on the top, is the idle mixture screw. The screw on the side (throttle shaft) is the idle speed adjustment.

Glad that you've got it back to normal, you're most welcome!

Butch

On 7/5/2019 4:23 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
It's a Tilly - ??I must of had the points set wrong - after doing some adjusting and playing with the carb it runs well and starts like it use to in the morn. ??Thanks for all your help

ps the tee at the bottom must be the fuel mixture??


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Richard Williams
 

Do you use the chock? It helps. LOL
Rich W

On Friday, July 5, 2019, 07:27:39 PM PDT, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:


Bud,

The "TEE" at the bottom, is the high speed mixture screw. The screw on the top, is the idle mixture screw. The screw on the side (throttle shaft) is the idle speed adjustment.

Glad that you've got it back to normal, you're most welcome!

Butch

On 7/5/2019 4:23 PM, Bud Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
It's a Tilly - ??I must of had the points set wrong - after doing some adjusting and playing with the carb it runs well and starts like it use to in the morn. ??Thanks for all your help

ps the tee at the bottom must be the fuel mixture??


Virus-free. www.avast.com