Topics

Restoration tips for beginners

Gabriel Haddad
 

Hello all, 
I know there is a lot of information out there for fixing and repairing Crosley parts.  There are even a few publications for restoration.  As I approach my first attempt at a full blown restoration of a car, I have to wonder what are the simple things people would have liked to know before they started their restoration? I mean some of the real simple things. 
As I was wrenching on a car this last weekend,  I complained to myself how greasy the underside was. Why didn't I take a power washer to it first!! 
What about tips for pulling the old wiring? Did you wish you knew something before stared tearing something apart or, before you began assembling something? 
Thanks to all of you and I hope you all have a great 4th of July. 
I hope to see you all next year.
Thanks,  gabriel. 

Dennis Terdy
 

Gabriel,
Great request! I am not an expert in the least, but here are a few comments about rewiring:
I did not buy new harnesses, so the following is what I did to save several dollars and still have a fully functioning Crosley electrical system: 

1. In rewiring 2 Crosleys (1947 and 1952), I did not remove all wires at once and try to follow an impossible-to-read schematic from the manual. I also enlarged the schematic on 8.5 X 14" paper to be more functional.  
2. I bought appropriately guaged multi colored wiring and pulled each wire one-by-one to its location. Once the wire was installed I double-checked where it was in the schematic. The '47 was easy because there were no turn signals and very "primitive" electric e.g. single tail light with brake switch. The '52 was tricky because the aftermarket bright light and turn signal set up was not intuitive and needed to be experimented with a bit to work.
3. I made sure I had a good supply of new 6V bulbs with extras.
4. I bought a large wiring kit with push-ons, connectors, etc. 
4. I tried to save any existing electrical components, grommets, sockets, etc just in case I could not replace the originals. (This worked very well in each car's case especially with headlights and any front lighting on the '52)
4. In the end, I added boots around long running wires (e.g. to the rear) and zip strips as ties once I knew that set of wires was installed and functioning. 

I hope this will be useful to you. Good Luck.

Dennis



On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 8:33 PM Gabriel Haddad <super51.g100@...> wrote:
Hello all, 
I know there is a lot of information out there for fixing and repairing Crosley parts.  There are even a few publications for restoration.  As I approach my first attempt at a full blown restoration of a car, I have to wonder what are the simple things people would have liked to know before they started their restoration? I mean some of the real simple things. 
As I was wrenching on a car this last weekend,  I complained to myself how greasy the underside was. Why didn't I take a power washer to it first!! 
What about tips for pulling the old wiring? Did you wish you knew something before stared tearing something apart or, before you began assembling something? 
Thanks to all of you and I hope you all have a great 4th of July. 
I hope to see you all next year.
Thanks,  gabriel. 



--
Dennis Terdy

Richard Williams
 

Don't forget to either clean or replace your dimmer switch. On my 48 with 6v it made a big difference.

Don Pitchford
 

Gabriel,
A digital camera and some lights on stands to make really good photos are your best friends. Also, write notes on paper tags or tape and attach them to the parts so they show up in the photos. In the old days we had to rely on drawings and memory. We have it so easy today with digital photos. I recommend getting a camera that you don't mind getting dirty because sometimes your hands are going to be filthy when you pick up the camera to take a picture of something. Regularly email those photos between 2 of your email accounts  or do some other kind of back-up so you don't loose the photos. 

If you have an oxygen/acetylene or MAP gas/oxygen torch that you can use to heat up fasteners it will help a great deal with loosening stuck nuts and bolts. Without heating them,  a lot of nut and bolt heads will round off or break. Heating them to just shy of Red, then letting them cool a bit loosens them so they come right out. Just be sure there is no gas or oil in the area. Keep a bucket of water with a wet rag, and a fire extinguisher handy just in case. 

Buy a good tap and die set or "thread chaser" so you can clean up the threads on everything! It's impossible to know how well a fastener is torqued unless you have clean, smooth, and lightly lubricated threads. I often take an assembly off the car in pieces, then reassemble it and set it aside until I'm ready to do a thorough cleaning and restoration to it. Cleaning up the threads as you are reassembling it for the first time makes life a lot easier. 

Good luck and keep us updated,
Don Pitchford

On Friday, July 3, 2020, 08:33:10 PM CDT, Gabriel Haddad <super51.g100@...> wrote:


Hello all, 
I know there is a lot of information out there for fixing and repairing Crosley parts.  There are even a few publications for restoration.  As I approach my first attempt at a full blown restoration of a car, I have to wonder what are the simple things people would have liked to know before they started their restoration? I mean some of the real simple things. 
As I was wrenching on a car this last weekend,  I complained to myself how greasy the underside was. Why didn't I take a power washer to it first!! 
What about tips for pulling the old wiring? Did you wish you knew something before stared tearing something apart or, before you began assembling something? 
Thanks to all of you and I hope you all have a great 4th of July. 
I hope to see you all next year.
Thanks,  gabriel. 

Gabriel Haddad
 

Good info guys! Keep it coming. It's those little lessons that make a big difference.  
Like the brakes I have been working on. The car needed all new wheel cylinders. I thought I could get away with reusing all the lines as and master cylinder.  Nope! Not worth the risk. I am replacing it all.
Thanks again.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 12:32 PM Don Pitchford via groups.io <w9ebk=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Gabriel,
A digital camera and some lights on stands to make really good photos are your best friends. Also, write notes on paper tags or tape and attach them to the parts so they show up in the photos. In the old days we had to rely on drawings and memory. We have it so easy today with digital photos. I recommend getting a camera that you don't mind getting dirty because sometimes your hands are going to be filthy when you pick up the camera to take a picture of something. Regularly email those photos between 2 of your email accounts  or do some other kind of back-up so you don't loose the photos. 

If you have an oxygen/acetylene or MAP gas/oxygen torch that you can use to heat up fasteners it will help a great deal with loosening stuck nuts and bolts. Without heating them,  a lot of nut and bolt heads will round off or break. Heating them to just shy of Red, then letting them cool a bit loosens them so they come right out. Just be sure there is no gas or oil in the area. Keep a bucket of water with a wet rag, and a fire extinguisher handy just in case. 

Buy a good tap and die set or "thread chaser" so you can clean up the threads on everything! It's impossible to know how well a fastener is torqued unless you have clean, smooth, and lightly lubricated threads. I often take an assembly off the car in pieces, then reassemble it and set it aside until I'm ready to do a thorough cleaning and restoration to it. Cleaning up the threads as you are reassembling it for the first time makes life a lot easier. 

Good luck and keep us updated,
Don Pitchford

On Friday, July 3, 2020, 08:33:10 PM CDT, Gabriel Haddad <super51.g100@...> wrote:


Hello all, 
I know there is a lot of information out there for fixing and repairing Crosley parts.  There are even a few publications for restoration.  As I approach my first attempt at a full blown restoration of a car, I have to wonder what are the simple things people would have liked to know before they started their restoration? I mean some of the real simple things. 
As I was wrenching on a car this last weekend,  I complained to myself how greasy the underside was. Why didn't I take a power washer to it first!! 
What about tips for pulling the old wiring? Did you wish you knew something before stared tearing something apart or, before you began assembling something? 
Thanks to all of you and I hope you all have a great 4th of July. 
I hope to see you all next year.
Thanks,  gabriel. 

crosleyshortsport
 

Gabriel,  I used lots of baggies and lots of tags. Label everything !   It took me 2 and 1/2 years to finish the 48 wagon. In that length of time, it is easy to forget what goes where. 


On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 2:17 PM Gabriel Haddad <super51.g100@...> wrote:
Good info guys! Keep it coming. It's those little lessons that make a big difference.  
Like the brakes I have been working on. The car needed all new wheel cylinders. I thought I could get away with reusing all the lines as and master cylinder.  Nope! Not worth the risk. I am replacing it all.
Thanks again.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 12:32 PM Don Pitchford via groups.io <w9ebk=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Gabriel,
A digital camera and some lights on stands to make really good photos are your best friends. Also, write notes on paper tags or tape and attach them to the parts so they show up in the photos. In the old days we had to rely on drawings and memory. We have it so easy today with digital photos. I recommend getting a camera that you don't mind getting dirty because sometimes your hands are going to be filthy when you pick up the camera to take a picture of something. Regularly email those photos between 2 of your email accounts  or do some other kind of back-up so you don't loose the photos. 

If you have an oxygen/acetylene or MAP gas/oxygen torch that you can use to heat up fasteners it will help a great deal with loosening stuck nuts and bolts. Without heating them,  a lot of nut and bolt heads will round off or break. Heating them to just shy of Red, then letting them cool a bit loosens them so they come right out. Just be sure there is no gas or oil in the area. Keep a bucket of water with a wet rag, and a fire extinguisher handy just in case. 

Buy a good tap and die set or "thread chaser" so you can clean up the threads on everything! It's impossible to know how well a fastener is torqued unless you have clean, smooth, and lightly lubricated threads. I often take an assembly off the car in pieces, then reassemble it and set it aside until I'm ready to do a thorough cleaning and restoration to it. Cleaning up the threads as you are reassembling it for the first time makes life a lot easier. 

Good luck and keep us updated,
Don Pitchford

On Friday, July 3, 2020, 08:33:10 PM CDT, Gabriel Haddad <super51.g100@...> wrote:


Hello all, 
I know there is a lot of information out there for fixing and repairing Crosley parts.  There are even a few publications for restoration.  As I approach my first attempt at a full blown restoration of a car, I have to wonder what are the simple things people would have liked to know before they started their restoration? I mean some of the real simple things. 
As I was wrenching on a car this last weekend,  I complained to myself how greasy the underside was. Why didn't I take a power washer to it first!! 
What about tips for pulling the old wiring? Did you wish you knew something before stared tearing something apart or, before you began assembling something? 
Thanks to all of you and I hope you all have a great 4th of July. 
I hope to see you all next year.
Thanks,  gabriel. 

Ron D.
 

Her is a little advice from someone who started the "take apart" part of my car  2 years ago, and am still in that phase. I am cleaning up and painting parts as I go along. Take pics of everything that is not very very obvious. You will think that you will remember, but it's not always true. Take pics from multiple angles of most things, and you will thank yourself later. Pics will help you remember how wires, hoses and linkages were run.  As Jeffery said, ALL small parts go in zip lock bags and labeled with a sharpie. Put bolts back into removed brackets when you can. One thing I am doing is replacing all bolts, with new grade 5 or 8 bolts, nuts and washers, They have a better protective coating and will resist rust way more than grade 2 bolts will. They are cheap when bought in bulk from Tractor Supply. Nylon lock nuts are a nice addition in some places to replace lock washers.

Good luck.

nadno1
 

To add to what others have said , I kept a journal that I wrote in everyday on what I worked on and the hours it took, one suggestion would be to keep a page on things you notice that may need attention when you re-assemble such as a weld that maybe was cracked on a part or something that maybe twisted or bent, these items can be taken care on days when you cant work on other items
Neal


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 10:37 AM, Ron D.
<rdole417@...> wrote:
Her is a little advice from someone who started the "take apart" part of my car  2 years ago, and am still in that phase. I am cleaning up and painting parts as I go along. Take pics of everything that is not very very obvious. You will think that you will remember, but it's not always true. Take pics from multiple angles of most things, and you will thank yourself later. Pics will help you remember how wires, hoses and linkages were run.  As Jeffery said, ALL small parts go in zip lock bags and labeled with a sharpie. Put bolts back into removed brackets when you can. One thing I am doing is replacing all bolts, with new grade 5 or 8 bolts, nuts and washers, They have a better protective coating and will resist rust way more than grade 2 bolts will. They are cheap when bought in bulk from Tractor Supply. Nylon lock nuts are a nice addition in some places to replace lock washers.

Good luck.

Tim Hamblen
 

There seems to be a tendency for new folks to get some rattle can primer to cover spots they are working on. A lot of the off the shelf stuff at WalMart , Home Depot and big box auto stores is lacquer primer. Lacquer will allow moisture to go thru. When I got the truck I'm now finishing it had primer all over it.Actually did not look all that bad but since I had no idea what was done under it I decided to strip it all off with a DA and wire wheel. Under the primer I found a complete coverage of red dust :ie surface rust.Your best bet is to always pick a brand and stick to it for all products. Primer, Surfacer, Etching color coat etc. Pick a brand and use only it. Talk to real experts about grades of sandpaper, fillers, blocking, cutting and polishing etc etc. I do all my own painting and frankly my spraying is suspect.So I learned (no I HAD to learn ) to use a buffer. I've seen so many color coats with trash, flies, dust etc that just a little time with a buffer would have made it so much better. The answer always is "I'm afraid of a buffer". Why ? Use waffle foam pads, run the buffer slower (yes it will take longer but so what), have a spray bottle of water handy to spritz the surface now and then as you buff.Stay off edges or pay attention to which way the buffer turns. If you screw it up, fix it, not a big deal.

Ron D.
 

So Tim, what type of spray paint and primer do you suggest? Some cans say enamel, some say acrylic and some say oil based. I don't have a spray gun or the ability to mix up my own paints and primers, so rattle cans are my only other option.

dave p
 

Great Post,  Tim...   with good advice about primers, paints , and buffing.......

  Your best point is  "  Talk to real experts about.... ( anything) "      ....

                    Most of us who have been doing restorations for many years,  are willing to pass along tips and don't do(s) ,  


Dave Perry                                                                   
 
    OldSchool Restorations of North Alabama USA           
 

                   see...............   http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/about-us/dave-perry-school-restorations/
  

                                                                   www.race-cardrivers.com/shop.htm  

Gabriel Haddad
 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm sure this will help more than just me. 
Gabe.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 11:51 AM dave p <dave@...> wrote:
Great Post,  Tim...   with good advice about primers, paints , and buffing.......

  Your best point is  "  Talk to real experts about.... ( anything) "      ....

                    Most of us who have been doing restorations for many years,  are willing to pass along tips and don't do(s) ,  


Dave Perry                                                                   
 
    OldSchool Restorations of North Alabama USA           
 

                   see...............   http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/about-us/dave-perry-school-restorations/
  

                                                                   www.race-cardrivers.com/shop.htm  

Tim Hamblen
 

You have options, don't discount yourself. For what you will pay for a whole bunch of rattle can paint you can pick up a very serviceable gun at Harbor Freight or other discount places.Any of those will do a better job than rattle can. Just get one and practice. Single stage acrylic is probably easiest for a new person but I will defer that to a real expert of which I am not.Your best bet is to watch  videos on youtube. There are videos on the cheaper paint guns like Harbor.My gun right now is a Sprayit gravity gun. A pro painter recommended it to me as a very good low cost gun.Now I'll pull the curtain back a little and let out something almost no one outside my closest Crosley friends know. Take a look at my grandson's Hot Shot (Jackson Ross and the Youth Project Hot Shot). Not bad eh ? That is International Blue implement paint from Van Sickle. I wanted something he could work with that if he screwed it up we'd not be out much. It's an alkyd enamel (oil base) and we used Van Sickle primer and used a hardener in the paint. The "experts" on various Internet forums poo poo the implement paint saying it will fade out in the sun over time. Really ? How much do our Crosleys spend out in the sun ? If 24/7/365 probably will fade. So will rattle can paint which is alkyd enamel. Sure he got some runs and had some trash in it but he colored sanded with 1200 grit and then he was instructed on the use of a buffer, first cutting compound and then polish compound.Now to really pull the curtain back..................all my Crosleys are shot with implement paint, including the yellow sedan delivery I just showed in the Virtual Show.For cars that spend vast amounts of time indoors the alkyd enamel works very nicely. Have to use the hardener, that's what keeps the shine and produces a nice hard finish. Well, now the cat's out of the bag.

Robert Kirk
 

Good advice Tim.  When you use a buffer be judicious, it is very easy to get carried away and burn through to metal. 

Tim Hamblen
 

Yep, I was buffing the hood on our 50 and suddenly on that part that rolls off the top and down the side I could see the primer sort of showing thru. I wasn't in it but the color was showing thru the off white paint. Stop, sand, recoat, do it again.Just watch the rotation of the buffer and make sure on any edge the buffing wheel is coming off the edge and not cutting into it.

Ron D.
 

Thanks for the advice Tim. Just to clarify, I was talking using rattle can primer and paint on all the dozens of misc metal pieces I've taken off the car, as opposed to setting up a spray gun every time I needed to paint a few brackets or whatever misc pieces I just cleaned up. I would never try to paint the car body with spray cans. 

Tim Hamblen
 

Here's a good read on the paints we use today VS the paints we used back in the olden days.It points out what I have always suspected about base coat / clear coats.

https://medium.com/@benklesc/when-paint-jobs-lasted-forever-the-lost-art-of-single-stage-9f99973befaf         

Rich Childs
 

Very good write up.    I painted a number of 50s cars with Dulux in the 80s.   With a bit of buffing they would always look great.   Have a 48 Frazer now with 2 tone finish thaT I suspect is Dulux. Not my work but it is easy to keep looking good. 


On Monday, July 20, 2020, Tim Hamblen via groups.io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's a good read on the paints we use today VS the paints we used back in the olden days.It points out what I have always suspected about base coat / clear coats.

https://medium.com/@benklesc/when-paint-jobs-lasted-forever-the-lost-art-of-single-stage-9f99973befaf         



--
Rich Childs

parkhunter@...
 

My two bits on the paint thing... my car got held up for 2-3 years because I didn’t have the tools or skills or money to paint it with a gun. 

After helping my son paint his Rambler using the roll-on method and Rustoleum marine grade paint, I decided to do my Crosley with rattle cans. I grew up painting model rockets and knew how to get a decent finish. Work with what you know. 

For me, cans were simple and easy to control. I used Rustoleum in standard colors they will always make (Hunter Green in my case). I’ll always be able to touch up scratches and dings.  

Whether you are doing it professionally or with cans, much of the finish depends on the quality of the prep work and the finish work. Wet sand between coats, then wipe the car with clean water, then wipe it down with mineral spirits, then wipe it down with a tack cloth between every coat. 

Humidity and temperature play a big role and can subtly affect the color and finish. Buy a little thermometer/humidity meter and keep track. I ended up moving a dehumidifier into the garage as the summer got muggier. High humidity leads to orange peel finish. Aargh!

The nice thing about paint is that if you screw it up, you can just sand it down and do it over. 

My car looks fine for an amateur restoration. It won’t match up with pros at big shows, but it’s plenty fine for me. I even got 3rd in class at the ‘19 Nationals.

And, going with what I knew got the project back in track. That’s important!

- Park

parkhunter@...
 

Another tip I’ve learned: the Crosley parts manual is just as useful as the service manual. The parts manual includes exploded diagrams of most parts of the car, which help when you can’t quite figure out an assembly. 


But where it really saved my bacon was on the miscellaneous nuts and bolts. The old hardware that comes off the car isn’t always in good shape, or you lose a washer, or get some pieces scrambled up.

The parts manual is detailed right down to the screws and bolts for every assembly. It can help you find the right little bit on the bench. Or I sometimes just went down to the local Ace store and replaced bolts, nuts, screws, washers, and rubber grommets right out of the parts bins. It’s nice to have the right new hardware during assembly. 

- Park