Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff


Jim Liberty
 

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

Thanks Jim

I already have the rubber seal on the crankshaft properly.

But it will leak without something to hold it in place.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 3:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:


Jim Liberty
 

OK above my pay grade. I restore 356 Porsches, just doing a '47 PU for a shop truck.    ......Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:04 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim

I already have the rubber seal on the crankshaft properly.

But it will leak without something to hold it in place.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 3:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:

Attachments:


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

Thanks Jim, I am hopeful that some one else has figured out this problem in the past.  

Maybe half sleeves with a ridge to go into the rubber seal?

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 4:12 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

OK above my pay grade. I restore 356 Porsches, just doing a '47 PU for a shop truck.    ......Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:04 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim

I already have the rubber seal on the crankshaft properly.

But it will leak without something to hold it in place.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 3:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:

Attachments:


Jim Liberty
 

Have you asked Dale at Service Motors.             ......................Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:18 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim, I am hopeful that some one else has figured out this problem in the past.  

Maybe half sleeves with a ridge to go into the rubber seal?

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 4:12 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

OK above my pay grade. I restore 356 Porsches, just doing a '47 PU for a shop truck.    ......Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:04 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim

I already have the rubber seal on the crankshaft properly.

But it will leak without something to hold it in place.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 3:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:

Attachments:


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

In the attached photo the main bearing cap is from the Fageol engine.  Could I use the cap on the right to hold the rubber oil seal in place?



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 4:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

Have you asked Dale at Service Motors.             ......................Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:18 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim, I am hopeful that some one else has figured out this problem in the past.  

Maybe half sleeves with a ridge to go into the rubber seal?

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 4:12 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

OK above my pay grade. I restore 356 Porsches, just doing a '47 PU for a shop truck.    ......Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:04 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim

I already have the rubber seal on the crankshaft properly.

But it will leak without something to hold it in place.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Liberty <jimliberty356@...>
Date: 3/27/21 3:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

I don't know if this helps, but I just installed one on a steel crank. Put it in boiling water, then stretch it over the tear flange.    .....Jim.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:54 PM jeff <jeffalyon@...> wrote:
Hello Crosley Folks

Anyone know the proper way to install the rear main oil seal on a Fageol boat engine?  There is no slot for the flexible rubber seal.  Do you make a split metal collar to hold in the rubber seal?  Anyone have any experience with this issue?
Thanks, Jeff

Attachments:

Attachments:


seb fontana
 

Pretty much no, dia different, bolt holes different spacing, bearing diameters not guaranteed to line up.. I have asked several of the more know ledged people I could think of looking for plans and had no luck, some suggestions but no first hand experience or they didn't want to tell me..(kidding).. Right now best I can see is to use a Fageol crank with a screwed on flywheel flange like is done when doing  H'lite conversion to Crosley flywheel. Use a Fageol seal, Instructions are in the files.  Later in the year I will be making an adapter to be able to use the Crosley rear seal in the Fageol nose down crank case, might be by split rings, molded adapter ring or whole new seal. I would rather have a lip seal like the Fageol rather than the Crosley Ferrell type. Seb. . 


seb fontana
 

I had a few minutes so went and checked things. I was pretty far out (way out) going from memory, old age and the block I been working on. The od of the Crosley seal and the seal bore area of the Fageol are pretty damn close, surprised me that I didn't remember that.. Changing caps is an idea but no guarantee the bearing bore will be correct. Since the seal has a groove in the od of about .050 wide and .070 deep I looked up "O" ring material. Thought is to use maybe .060 dia. or so [maybe more?] pushed into groove to "puff up" the od of the seal some but then you would have to rely on RTV for the final fit/seal. To keep the seal in place if you don't trust the RTV "glue" maybe use the alternator screw holes to hold four tabs over the seal area (I think some one suggested that) to keep the seal from walking out. Thats all I got since you already have the seal in place and every direction seems to require a leap of faith.. Seb.


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

Thanks Seb

I am looking at two different solutions;

1.  Since I have the Crosley rubber seal already installed on the crankshaft, I might just install a Crosley cap that has the rubber seal groove in it.  This should prevent the seal from walking out.  But the alignment may be a little off.

2.  I fabricated two ring halves which would prevent the rubber seal from walking out.  I could screw these two half rings onto the crankcase and cap.  And then use RTV on the seal perimeter to keep it from spinning. 

Jeff


seb fontana
 

Jeff I like #2. No worry bout bearing alignment. In my Fageol Crank cases the Crosley seal is a hair wider than the outter bore you made the rings to fit so if yours is the same should be pretty positive hold/squeeze on the seal. along with the RTV. Be sure all areas where the RTV will be in contact with are vey clean for good adhesion/sealing. Let me know/pics how it works. One point for down the road; when you bolt the back half of the bell housing to the front half be sure to check trans alignment, you may have to indicate in and re-dowel.. Seb..


jeff <jeffalyon@...>
 

Seb, I took your advice and the Fageol 44 runs great!   No rear main seal leaks, perfect.  I drilled two holes at 45 degree angles for each half-ring, then tapped the holes for short 6-32 screws.   After installing the screws, and using thread locker, I ground the screw heads down a bit so they would not interfere with the crankshaft flange.  Put RTV around the edge of the rubber seal to prevent it from rotating.  Let cure for a couple days.  
The angled screws help keep the rubber seal locate in the middle of the seal housing.  Attached is a video after running the engine at different speeds for an hour.  Also attached is a photo of my home made seal retainer rings.

Thanks again Seb.

Jeff



Sent from my jphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "seb fontana via groups.io" <speedoo51@...>
Date: 3/30/21 8:34 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Fageol 44 Boat Engine Rear Main Oil Seal

Jeff I like #2. No worry bout bearing alignment. In my Fageol Crank cases the Crosley seal is a hair wider than the outter bore you made the rings to fit so if yours is the same should be pretty positive hold/squeeze on the seal. along with the RTV. Be sure all areas where the RTV will be in contact with are vey clean for good adhesion/sealing. Let me know/pics how it works. One point for down the road; when you bolt the back half of the bell housing to the front half be sure to check trans alignment, you may have to indicate in and re-dowel.. Seb..