Topics

Engine help


Joe Brownsberger
 

Hi, all. I have an unknown year cast iron block with a broken crankshaft. And some sort of home made tension spring on the main bearings to the pistons. My question beinging, what other issues should I be looking for? It would not turn clockwise for anything, I kept spinning the bolt out of the pully drive wheel. Spinning it counter clockwise resulted in a (180° turn and it hangs up on something, everytime I'd spin it 180°) only other information I have is that at the front of the crankshaft, there was/is a lot of play at the pully wheel everytime I turn the crank over. 


Mike <seller432@...>
 

It needs to be disassembled I see the crack in the crank and chewed up gears on the tower gear. Not sure what spring you’re talking about but the one near the crank pulley is original. 

On Jan 20, 2019, at 3:03 AM, Joe Brownsberger via Groups.Io <jbraunsberg@...> wrote:

Hi, all. I have an unknown year cast iron block with a broken crankshaft. And some sort of home made tension spring on the main bearings to the pistons. My question beinging, what other issues should I be looking for? It would not turn clockwise for anything, I kept spinning the bolt out of the pully drive wheel. Spinning it counter clockwise resulted in a (180° turn and it hangs up on something, everytime I'd spin it 180°) only other information I have is that at the front of the crankshaft, there was/is a lot of play at the pully wheel everytime I turn the crank over. 

Attachments:


Steve Olinger
 

You have one of the rare high compression Quicksilver engines judging by the HC stamping.


Tim Hamblen
 

Never try to turn the engine with the bolt in the crank pulley. You'll screw it up, maybe already have.Spring ? Not sure what you are referring to but maybe the main bearing caps ?? That has strapped main bearings, just what you want in an engine.Not all had them.


Joe Brownsberger
 

Ok, I'm glad to find out everything looks so half normal, thanks for the help everyone. I honestly know nothing about any Crosley engine other than what is offered on the club site and my service manual. I can give more pictures when I pull the pistons and get some other stuff out. For now my only question for the time being is, I have pulled all the good parts out of a 48-49 junk cast iron motor, are those parts interchangeable with this engine. I have a spare crank, I am just not sure if it will fit or be correct. 


On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 12:23 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io wrote:
Never try to turn the engine with the bolt in the crank pulley. You'll screw it up, maybe already have.Spring ? Not sure what you are referring to but maybe the main bearing caps ?? That has strapped main bearings, just what you want in an engine.Not all had them.


PATRICIA GRITTI
 

This may have me tasting shoe leather!
Over the years I accumulated a lot of Crosley engine parts. When it came time to make a working engine decided to Have a profesionaI do the specionalized machine work, valve grinding, no lead valve seats and fitting Crosley engines require.There are several engine guys available for building Crosley engines. My choice was Barry Seel. Good decision! He made an excellent engine.
BTW, if I understood your story the crank in your high compression engine is already broken. Going with a donor crank requires some knowledge. Most cranks have hidden defects that would make them "hand grenade" if you used them.
Hope things go well for you.
Don Gritti

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

------ Original message------
From: Joe Brownsberger
Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2019 12:39 PM
Cc:
Subject:Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help

Ok, I'm glad to find out everything looks so half normal, thanks for the help everyone. I honestly know nothing about any Crosley engine other than what is offered on the club site and my service manual. I can give more pictures when I pull the pistons and get some other stuff out. For now my only question for the time being is, I have pulled all the good parts out of a 48-49 junk cast iron motor, are those parts interchangeable with this engine. I have a spare crank, I am just not sure if it will fit or be correct. 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 12:23 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io yahoo.com@groups.io wrote:
Never try to turn the engine with the bolt in the crank pulley. You'll screw it up, maybe already have.Spring ? Not sure what you are referring to but maybe the main bearing caps ?? That has strapped main bearings, just what you want in an engine.Not all had them.


Spock Arnold
 


On Jan 20, 2019 1:10 PM, PATRICIA GRITTI <donald-gritti@...> wrote:
This may have me tasting shoe leather!
Over the years I accumulated a lot of Crosley engine parts. When it came time to make a working engine decided to Have a profesionaI do the specionalized machine work, valve grinding, no lead valve seats and fitting Crosley engines require.There are several engine guys available for building Crosley engines. My choice was Barry Seel. Good decision! He made an excellent engine.
BTW, if I understood your story the crank in your high compression engine is already broken. Going with a donor crank requires some knowledge. Most cranks have hidden defects that would make them "hand grenade" if you used them.
Hope things go well for you.
Don Gritti

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

------ Original message------
From: Joe Brownsberger
Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2019 12:39 PM
Cc:
Subject:Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help

Ok, I'm glad to find out everything looks so half normal, thanks for the help everyone. I honestly know nothing about any Crosley engine other than what is offered on the club site and my service manual. I can give more pictures when I pull the pistons and get some other stuff out. For now my only question for the time being is, I have pulled all the good parts out of a 48-49 junk cast iron motor, are those parts interchangeable with this engine. I have a spare crank, I am just not sure if it will fit or be correct. 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 12:23 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io yahoo.com@groups.io wrote:
Never try to turn the engine with the bolt in the crank pulley. You'll screw it up, maybe already have.Spring ? Not sure what you are referring to but maybe the main bearing caps ?? That has strapped main bearings, just what you want in an engine.Not all had them.



Tim Hamblen
 

The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.


L.E. Hardee
 

I would make sure the crankcase and bearing caps are still in alignment.  I have the new crank also break when installed in old crankcase.  I suspected it was warped or something from the previous damage.


On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 4:46 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.


Saltsgaver, Mike
 

The fact that first strap is homemade says somebody has monkeyed with it

 


From: crosley-gang@groups.io on behalf of L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:50 PM
To: crosley-gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help
 
I would make sure the crankcase and bearing caps are still in alignment.  I have the new crank also break when installed in old crankcase.  I suspected it was warped or something from the previous damage.

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 4:46 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.



Hella Electronics Corporation, 43811 Plymouth Oaks Blvd., 48170, Plymouth Michigan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is to be treated confidentially. Its contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed without our express permission. All rights reserved, especially the right to apply for protective rights.


Joe Brownsberger
 

What do the numbers on the crankshaft mean? 


On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 6:54 PM Saltsgaver, Mike <Mike.Saltsgaver@... wrote:
The fact that first strap is homemade says somebody has monkeyed with it

 

From: crosley-gang@groups.io on behalf of L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:50 PM
To: crosley-gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help
 
I would make sure the crankcase and bearing caps are still in alignment.  I have the new crank also break when installed in old crankcase.  I suspected it was warped or something from the previous damage.

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 4:46 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.



Hella Electronics Corporation, 43811 Plymouth Oaks Blvd., 48170, Plymouth Michigan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is to be treated confidentially. Its contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed without our express permission. All rights reserved, especially the right to apply for protective rights.


Jim Bollman
 

On the clubs main website we have some of the older Crosley-Gang info archived.

Here is a direct link to the crankshaft info. You may want to read it all but the best answer to the numbers that we have come up with is about 40% down the page called "Crank Pictures & Latest Theory". http://crosleyautoclub.com/CrosleyGarage/Engine/cranks.htm

The short answer is they identify different variations of the crank over the years.

Jim...

On Feb 1, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Joe Brownsberger <jbraunsberg@...> wrote:

What do the numbers on the crankshaft mean? 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 6:54 PM Saltsgaver, Mike <Mike.Saltsgaver@... wrote:
The fact that first strap is homemade says somebody has monkeyed with it

 

From: crosley-gang@groups.io on behalf of L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:50 PM
To: crosley-gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help
 
I would make sure the crankcase and bearing caps are still in alignment.  I have the new crank also break when installed in old crankcase.  I suspected it was warped or something from the previous damage.

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 4:46 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.




Hella Electronics Corporation, 43811 Plymouth Oaks Blvd., 48170, Plymouth Michigan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is to be treated confidentially. Its contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed without our express permission. All rights reserved, especially the right to apply for protective rights.


<20190122_194332.jpg>


Joe Brownsberger
 

Thanks Jim that helps a lot, I've read that one before just not that far down lol. I'm mostly gathering information so I know what this engine needs and if it even has the correct parts. 


On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 12:30 PM Jim Bollman <Jim@... wrote:
On the clubs main website we have some of the older Crosley-Gang info archived.

Here is a direct link to the crankshaft info. You may want to read it all but the best answer to the numbers that we have come up with is about 40% down the page called "Crank Pictures & Latest Theory". http://crosleyautoclub.com/CrosleyGarage/Engine/cranks.htm

The short answer is they identify different variations of the crank over the years.

Jim...

On Feb 1, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Joe Brownsberger <jbraunsberg@...> wrote:

What do the numbers on the crankshaft mean? 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 6:54 PM Saltsgaver, Mike <Mike.Saltsgaver@... wrote:
The fact that first strap is homemade says somebody has monkeyed with it

 

From: crosley-gang@groups.io on behalf of L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:50 PM
To: crosley-gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Engine help
 
I would make sure the crankcase and bearing caps are still in alignment.  I have the new crank also break when installed in old crankcase.  I suspected it was warped or something from the previous damage.

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 4:46 PM Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io <flinttim=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The odd thing is it has strapped mains but the crank broke. Usually the strapped main engines had very good cranks, not likely to break.I'm guessing someone's been inside it before. You really want to find the best crank possible for that.




Hella Electronics Corporation, 43811 Plymouth Oaks Blvd., 48170, Plymouth Michigan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is to be treated confidentially. Its contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed without our express permission. All rights reserved, especially the right to apply for protective rights.


<20190122_194332.jpg>


 

Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".


Jim Bollman
 

I hope some one with hands on experience will jump in but here is my suggestions. Never ran across one with a black coating but I would start with some solvents, and a brass wire brush for the bearing surfaces. You can be more aggressive on the none machined areas. Go more aggressive on the journals only if needed to or you will end up having to have the crank ground even if it is good. Other approach would be to take it to a machine shop that does crank work and ask their opinion they may have some kind of dip tank to clean up cranks before they grind them. Determining which crank you have is a good start before you put much time and money into it, if it is an early style I would clean it enough to not get my hands dirty when moving it around and put it on the shelf if you ever get desperate for a crank.


On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:56 AM, Jim Murphy <lftrn97@...> wrote:

Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".


James Dlapa
 

An none invasive way I would consider would be electrolysis. There are many videos on you tube. If taken to a shop, look into vapor honing. 
I have used white vinegar to clean rust from several parts in the past, and if not rinsed well, tends to leave a black coating. Perhaps this is what is it from ? 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 7:51 AM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:
I hope some one with hands on experience will jump in but here is my suggestions. Never ran across one with a black coating but I would start with some solvents, and a brass wire brush for the bearing surfaces. You can be more aggressive on the none machined areas. Go more aggressive on the journals only if needed to or you will end up having to have the crank ground even if it is good. Other approach would be to take it to a machine shop that does crank work and ask their opinion they may have some kind of dip tank to clean up cranks before they grind them. Determining which crank you have is a good start before you put much time and money into it, if it is an early style I would clean it enough to not get my hands dirty when moving it around and put it on the shelf if you ever get desperate for a crank.


On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:56 AM, Jim Murphy <lftrn97@...> wrote:

Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".


Butch
 

For sludge & crud, just standard cleaning procedures, solvent tank, engine degreaser, simple green, purple power, etc.

Brass scrub brush (use steel or stainless steel brushes with some restraint), a machine shop that still uses a hot tank is a fast way. Many newer shops use an oven, I wouldn't recommend that as the temperatures sometime run up to over 600 degrees.

If you can find a shop or someone with an ultrasonic cleaning tank, that's about ideal A soda blaster, also works well.

In other words, a lot of hard work or find some specialized equipment.

Butch

On 2/2/2019 7:56 AM, Jim Murphy wrote:
Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Butch
 

James,

To my limited knowledge, electrolysis only works for rust removal, not carbon, oil residue or sludge. We used it a fair amount, in our shop, for rust removal.

Butch

On 2/2/2019 11:02 AM, James Dlapa wrote:
An none invasive way I would consider would be electrolysis. There are many videos on you tube. If taken to a shop, look into vapor honing. 
I have used white vinegar to clean rust from several parts in the past, and if not rinsed well, tends to leave a black coating. Perhaps this is what is it from ? 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 7:51 AM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:
I hope some one with hands on experience will jump in but here is my suggestions. Never ran across one with a black coating but I would start with some solvents, and a brass wire brush for the bearing surfaces. You can be more aggressive on the none machined areas. Go more aggressive on the journals only if needed to or you will end up having to have the crank ground even if it is good. Other approach would be to take it to a machine shop that does crank work and ask their opinion they may have some kind of dip tank to clean up cranks before they grind them. Determining which crank you have is a good start before you put much time and money into it, if it is an early style I would clean it enough to not get my hands dirty when moving it around and put it on the shelf if you ever get desperate for a crank.


On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:56 AM, Jim Murphy <lftrn97@...> wrote:

Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".



Virus-free. www.avast.com


James Dlapa
 

That’s all I have used it for as well, I half read the posting. 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:11 AM Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
James,

To my limited knowledge, electrolysis only works for rust removal, not carbon, oil residue or sludge. We used it a fair amount, in our shop, for rust removal.

Butch

On 2/2/2019 11:02 AM, James Dlapa wrote:
An none invasive way I would consider would be electrolysis. There are many videos on you tube. If taken to a shop, look into vapor honing. 
I have used white vinegar to clean rust from several parts in the past, and if not rinsed well, tends to leave a black coating. Perhaps this is what is it from ? 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 7:51 AM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:
I hope some one with hands on experience will jump in but here is my suggestions. Never ran across one with a black coating but I would start with some solvents, and a brass wire brush for the bearing surfaces. You can be more aggressive on the none machined areas. Go more aggressive on the journals only if needed to or you will end up having to have the crank ground even if it is good. Other approach would be to take it to a machine shop that does crank work and ask their opinion they may have some kind of dip tank to clean up cranks before they grind them. Determining which crank you have is a good start before you put much time and money into it, if it is an early style I would clean it enough to not get my hands dirty when moving it around and put it on the shelf if you ever get desperate for a crank.


On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:56 AM, Jim Murphy <lftrn97@...> wrote:

Jim just curious about how you to clean up a crank that has been sitting in a non-running engine for years. Not rusty but just an overall black, dirty finish. The journals look just like the throws. So far I can't distinguish any numbers. I assume degreaser, but then what? I understand you can't blast cast iron. Should the surfaces be lightly ground or sanded and can the journals be polished? Based on this thread maybe we should start a TV series on the History Channel titled "The Curse of the Crosley Crankshaft".



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Steve Perry
 

I would recommend taking it to a GOOD machine shop and have it dipped and magnafluxed..