Topics

Crosley frame strength?

Mike
 

I was thinking of doing an engine swap in my 50 sedan but don't really want to get into building a new frame.  I was thinking a gm 2.2 4cyl from a s10 pickup keeping the efi and the 5spd manual trans. I'm just not sure if the frame will support this? I was thinking of beefing up suspension components for additional weight.  

 

Butch
 

Mike,

The front springs are already marginal/under rated for the standard Crosley package, with just a driver in place. Also, if using the Crosley front axle, make SURE that you have the 5/8" axle system, rather than the 1/2".

With increased power comes increased speed and even the 9" brakes (the best ones Crosley ever used) are adequate but definitely NOT overly powerful.

Cracks in the frame, are FAR from unknown, so reinforcing would NOT be just and option, but almost mandatory.

Since you would probably be changing the differential (due to the open vs closed driveshaft), the limitations of the stock Crosley rear end, don't come into play.

Just my idle thoughts,

Butch

On 8/7/2018 9:29 AM, Mike via Groups.Io wrote:
I was thinking of doing an engine swap in my 50 sedan but don't really want to get into building a new frame.  I was thinking a gm 2.2 4cyl from a s10 pickup keeping the efi and the 5spd manual trans. I'm just not sure if the frame will support this? I was thinking of beefing up suspension components for additional weight.  

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

L.E. Hardee
 

I agree with Butch.  I have an "Hook and Ladder" fire truck with a 4 cyl Pinto Ford engine and auto trans.  They did the heavier springs, 6/8 axle, and the 9" brakes.  But didn't reinforce the frame though.  It is only used for parades so doesn't get a lot of high speed use.  

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:
Mike,

The front springs are already marginal/under rated for the standard Crosley package, with just a driver in place. Also, if using the Crosley front axle, make SURE that you have the 5/8" axle system, rather than the 1/2".

With increased power comes increased speed and even the 9" brakes (the best ones Crosley ever used) are adequate but definitely NOT overly powerful.

Cracks in the frame, are FAR from unknown, so reinforcing would NOT be just and option, but almost mandatory.

Since you would probably be changing the differential (due to the open vs closed driveshaft), the limitations of the stock Crosley rear end, don't come into play.

Just my idle thoughts,

Butch

On 8/7/2018 9:29 AM, Mike via Groups.Io wrote:
I was thinking of doing an engine swap in my 50 sedan but don't really want to get into building a new frame.  I was thinking a gm 2.2 4cyl from a s10 pickup keeping the efi and the 5spd manual trans. I'm just not sure if the frame will support this? I was thinking of beefing up suspension components for additional weight.  

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Vern Barker
 

why not use the s-10 frame ?
 

L.E. Hardee
 

Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 

christopher cochrane
 

Just make a new frame simple box style
image1.jpeg

On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:59 AM, L.E. Hardeeimage2.jpeg<hftsales@...> wrote:
Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 


Robert Connearney
 

There's a chap in New England that runs a Chevvy V8 powered Crosley wagon drag race car. He uses the original chassis, strengthened by boxing, and has no problems.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "christopher cochrane via Groups.Io" <Pisarunner@...>
Date: 8/8/18 8:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley frame strength?

Just make a new frame simple box style
image1.jpeg

On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:59 AM, L.E. Hardeeimage2.jpeg<hftsales@...> wrote:
Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 


Mike
 

I was looking at mine earlier and I think with some boxing and some extra cross members it would hold up. Not looking to race or beat on it. 
  I’m trying to find specs on doner engine and trans to compare weight difference. 


On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Robert Connearney via Groups.Io <rconnearney@...> wrote:

There's a chap in New England that runs a Chevvy V8 powered Crosley wagon drag race car. He uses the original chassis, strengthened by boxing, and has no problems.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "christopher cochrane via Groups.Io" <Pisarunner@...>
Date: 8/8/18 8:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley frame strength?

Just make a new frame simple box style
image1.jpeg
On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:59 AM, L.E. Hardeeimage2.jpeg<hftsales@...> wrote:
Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 


christopher cochrane
 

The stock frame with some boxing would do fine. And a Toyota 22r / 5 speed swap would be awesome and it would right down the road. 

On Aug 9, 2018, at 6:15 AM, Mike via Groups.Io <seller432@...> wrote:

I was looking at mine earlier and I think with some boxing and some extra cross members it would hold up. Not looking to race or beat on it. 
  I’m trying to find specs on doner engine and trans to compare weight difference. 


On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Robert Connearney via Groups.Io <rconnearney@...> wrote:

There's a chap in New England that runs a Chevvy V8 powered Crosley wagon drag race car. He uses the original chassis, strengthened by boxing, and has no problems.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "christopher cochrane via Groups.Io" <Pisarunner@...>
Date: 8/8/18 8:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley frame strength?

Just make a new frame simple box style
image1.jpeg
On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:59 AM, L.E. Hardeeimage2.jpeg<hftsales@...> wrote:
Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 


Jim Bollman
 

Lots of good suggestions. If you want to do a lot less work but get a little more power converting to what a lot of us call a Crosley Big Block would more than double your horse power and not add much if any weight and would require no structural changes.  For those that don't know what a CBB is, the Crosley engine continued with modification and improvements till 1972, under multiple companies. The last two turns of the crank were the Homelite 55 and Fisher Pierce Bearcat 55 outboard boat engines.  The 55s were basically the same engine, they were 59CI because of bigger bower and stroke. They put out 55hp stock and with carb and exhaust improvements can get 60-70hp with no other modifications.Takes a bit of machining to put them back into  car but a stock Crosley crankcase still works. The stock transmission and rear can be used if you don't push the burn outs and such to much.

So that gives you more acceleration, but you still have a crash box 3 speed and 5:17 rear, but the can be upgraded as you go. Under the hood, to the none Crosley expert, it will look fairly stock.

Just another option.

Jim...

On Aug 7, 2018, at 9:29 AM, Mike via Groups.Io <seller432@...> wrote:

I was thinking of doing an engine swap in my 50 sedan but don't really want to get into building a new frame.  I was thinking a gm 2.2 4cyl from a s10 pickup keeping the efi and the 5spd manual trans. I'm just not sure if the frame will support this? I was thinking of beefing up suspension components for additional weight.  

 

Robert Connearney
 

An acquaintance has a Crosley wagon, into which he swapped a small Datsun pushrod engine (1300 cc, I think). Uses a Metropolitan rear end (same 4" bolt circle), but it had to be narrowed. Engine is physically similar to a Sprite/Midget, which would be much easier to find, including parts. The Spridget rear end is 42" track, only 2" wider than a Crosley, which could be narrowed a bit with front wheel drive wheels (MG 1100?), all of which have the same 4" bolt circle. I think early Honda Civic wheels would also fit.

At one time, I was going to check into the possibility of using one of those 3 cylinder Japanese/Chevvy (Prism?) engines, which were small, and i think, all alloy. Hard to find now. Could consider a Ford Zetec twin cam (iron block), or Duratec (all alloy). I can't comment on the "fit" of these. Unless a candidate engine came in a rear drive application, you would need to come up with a different transmission, and need an adapter.
Bob Connearney


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mike via Groups.Io" <seller432@...>
Date: 8/9/18 9:15 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley frame strength?

I was looking at mine earlier and I think with some boxing and some extra cross members it would hold up. Not looking to race or beat on it. 
  I’m trying to find specs on doner engine and trans to compare weight difference. 


On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Robert Connearney via Groups.Io <rconnearney@...> wrote:

There's a chap in New England that runs a Chevvy V8 powered Crosley wagon drag race car. He uses the original chassis, strengthened by boxing, and has no problems.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "christopher cochrane via Groups.Io" <Pisarunner@...>
Date: 8/8/18 8:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley frame strength?

Just make a new frame simple box style
image1.jpeg
On Aug 8, 2018, at 4:59 AM, L.E. Hardeeimage2.jpeg<hftsales@...> wrote:
Crosley is such a narrow body.  Wouldn't an S10 frame be too wide even if the wheel base matched?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Vern Barker <romardb@...> wrote:
why not use the s-10 frame ?
 


Mike
 

I was thinking of the s10 4cyl platform. About 120hp mated to a 5 speed manual. 98-03 has the aluminum head and plastic intake was told they weigh about 150 w/o accessories. Plus I’d have it tuned to remove emission stuff and remove a/c.  Plus these trucks rot out around here and no one likes them do to under powered so they sell cheap.  
It’s hard where I’m at as every thing was scrapped or is severely rotted and difficult to find there’s 1 junkyard with old cars but he’s so over priced on stuff.  



On Aug 9, 2018, at 11:38 AM, Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

Lots of good suggestions. If you want to do a lot less work but get a little more power converting to what a lot of us call a Crosley Big Block would more than double your horse power and not add much if any weight and would require no structural changes.  For those that don't know what a CBB is, the Crosley engine continued with modification and improvements till 1972, under multiple companies. The last two turns of the crank were the Homelite 55 and Fisher Pierce Bearcat 55 outboard boat engines.  The 55s were basically the same engine, they were 59CI because of bigger bower and stroke. They put out 55hp stock and with carb and exhaust improvements can get 60-70hp with no other modifications.Takes a bit of machining to put them back into  car but a stock Crosley crankcase still works. The stock transmission and rear can be used if you don't push the burn outs and such to much.

So that gives you more acceleration, but you still have a crash box 3 speed and 5:17 rear, but the can be upgraded as you go. Under the hood, to the none Crosley expert, it will look fairly stock.

Just another option.

Jim...

On Aug 7, 2018, at 9:29 AM, Mike via Groups.Io <seller432@...> wrote:

I was thinking of doing an engine swap in my 50 sedan but don't really want to get into building a new frame.  I was thinking a gm 2.2 4cyl from a s10 pickup keeping the efi and the 5spd manual trans. I'm just not sure if the frame will support this? I was thinking of beefing up suspension components for additional weight.  

 

nobadrivers
 

I wonder if an old Chevrolet Chevette drivetrain would be worth looking into?

Madeline Kay Putney
 

For what it is worth I looked into a Chevy Chevete with an automatic transmission for a Super Sport swap and it looked pretty easy. I also considered a Toyota 2TC “ hemi” style engine from the 1970s. According to all the measurements that I could make while rolling around in a junk yard looked considerably more feasable. Also those little engines are tough.




On Thursday, August 9, 2018, 3:09 PM, nobadrivers <scanner2@...> wrote:

I wonder if an old Chevrolet Chevette drivetrain would be worth looking into?

seb fontana
 

Remember BRAKES!!!!  I have a Homelite waiting to be retro fitted for my 47CC...Also a Spriget trans that I have figured how to adapt to T'tube and bolt to stock bell housing..Sorta have eye on AH rear axle...I haven't settled on brakes yet so I so not proceeding with engine or trans....I drive my Crosley all over the state sticking to roads that have a max speed limit of 50 mph when going far but mostly 35 mph or so so when doing errands....I just can't take the time to fix whats not broke; having too much fun just enjoying the car and a challenge to see how many times I can shift without grinding the gears..I don't think Powel envisioned that the Crosley would be be such a fun little car.!!..

Todd Swangstu
 

I am fairly new to Crosleys and just bought a wagon.  I would love to do one of the CBB conversions!  Anyone have more detailed info on this conversion and possibly a lead on one of these engines?  Thanks T

L.E. Hardee
 

Care to share how to adapt the Spriget trans to the bell housing and the torque tube?  To me the stock Crosley transmission is the drawback to the whole car.  A good set of the 9" brakes will stop the car on a dime.  I almost had the rear axle lift off the ground in a panic stop with my 52 wagon because I had so much braking on the front axle.  But the ratio gap between 2nd gear and high is a killer.  You have to rev the engine to the extreme and even then you lug the engine when you shift to high.  And forget a quick down shift back to second with the lack of synchronization.

The Crosley engine is a low power, high rev engine.  You NEED a transmission able to keep the engine in the highest part of it's power curve to get the best out the engine for a pleasurable drive experience.  I would love to find a compact 5 or even 6 speed tranny that would fit with out butchering the car body.  I have even briefly thought about converting a motorcycle trans but the lack of reverse kinda kills that.

BTW, I am assuming that the reference to Sprigit is meaning either AH Sprite or MG Midget.  Am I correct?

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM, seb fontana via Groups.Io <speedoo51@...> wrote:
Remember BRAKES!!!!  I have a Homelite waiting to be retro fitted for my 47CC...Also a Spriget trans that I have figured how to adapt to T'tube and bolt to stock bell housing..Sorta have eye on AH rear axle...I haven't settled on brakes yet so I so not proceeding with engine or trans....I drive my Crosley all over the state sticking to roads that have a max speed limit of 50 mph when going far but mostly 35 mph or so so when doing errands....I just can't take the time to fix whats not broke; having too much fun just enjoying the car and a challenge to see how many times I can shift without grinding the gears..I don't think Powel envisioned that the Crosley would be be such a fun little car.!!..

Jim Bollman
 

I know nothing about how a motorcycle transmission is integrated into the engine and how you would convert it, but I know that motorcycles with side cars have a reverse gear added, does that make the conversion doable?

Jim...

On Aug 9, 2018, at 11:01 PM, L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...> wrote:

I have even briefly thought about converting a motorcycle trans but the lack of reverse kinda kills that.

christopher cochrane
 

Reverse on these bikes is usually an electric motor that engages the chain or belt and moves the bike in reverse slowly while it is in neutral on the transmission. 

On Aug 9, 2018, at 8:08 PM, Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

I know nothing about how a motorcycle transmission is integrated into the engine and how you would convert it, but I know that motorcycles with side cars have a reverse gear added, does that make the conversion doable?

Jim...

On Aug 9, 2018, at 11:01 PM, L.E. Hardee <hftsales@...> wrote:

I have even briefly thought about converting a motorcycle trans but the lack of reverse kinda kills that.

jane altman
 

I thought I was the only one to actually drive my Crosley!  So many folks on this site only do shows : (....