Topics

COBRA Block


Bruce Derenski
 

Crosley Fans,

I work for a contractor that is interested in innovative ways of making an engine block, specifically methods that don't require casting. I immediately thought of the COBRA. Are there any specific members on here who are knowledgeable about exactly HOW Crosley manufactured that engine? Any books, articles or publications would be helpful, too. So would seeing one of these engines close-up. I live in Florida, so a local source is best, but I can travel. Also, some questions for anyone who has disassembled a COBRA: Does the COBRA block look any different than a CIBA? In other words, can you look at a COBRA block and see how it was made? I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get my hands on an old COBRA block for the purpose of examining it, and perhaps even breaking it down into its original stamped components.

Thanks in advance. You folks are great.


Jim Bollman
 

Our club website is a good place to start your research.

Lots of members of the Gang have experience with the CoBra, some even have running examples in cars. Bad blocks for disassembly should be fairly easy to get, Good blocks for making a running engines a bit harder. The inside of the engine is basically the same as the CIBA, so if you're interested in that, reprints of the service manual is available from our vendors. Once you actually see a CoBra they are easy to spot.

I'm sure others will jump in but feel free to ask more questions after you have read the link above.

Jim...

On Feb 16, 2020, at 8:44 AM, bruce.derenski via Groups.Io <bruce.derenski@...> wrote:

Crosley Fans,

I work for a contractor that is interested in innovative ways of making an engine block, specifically methods that don't require casting. I immediately thought of the COBRA. Are there any specific members on here who are knowledgeable about exactly HOW Crosley manufactured that engine? Any books, articles or publications would be helpful, too. So would seeing one of these engines close-up. I live in Florida, so a local source is best, but I can travel. Also, some questions for anyone who has disassembled a COBRA: Does the COBRA block look any different than a CIBA? In other words, can you look at a COBRA block and see how it was made? I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get my hands on an old COBRA block for the purpose of examining it, and perhaps even breaking it down into its original stamped components.

Thanks in advance. You folks are great.


Spock Arnold
 

Bruce;
     I don't know where you live in Florida, however, this Saturday the 22nd, the Florida Region is having a meet in Sarasota.  If you go on the Clubs Facebook page (Crosley Automobiles Fun Little Cars) and make a request, I am sure someone will have a tin block they can bring along. Also if you look at the club web page under Crosley Engine family Tree, you may find much of the information you are looking for.
                    Dave Anspach 

On Sunday, February 16, 2020, 08:44:30 AM EST, bruce.derenski via Groups.Io <bruce.derenski@...> wrote:


Crosley Fans,

I work for a contractor that is interested in innovative ways of making an engine block, specifically methods that don't require casting. I immediately thought of the COBRA. Are there any specific members on here who are knowledgeable about exactly HOW Crosley manufactured that engine? Any books, articles or publications would be helpful, too. So would seeing one of these engines close-up. I live in Florida, so a local source is best, but I can travel. Also, some questions for anyone who has disassembled a COBRA: Does the COBRA block look any different than a CIBA? In other words, can you look at a COBRA block and see how it was made? I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get my hands on an old COBRA block for the purpose of examining it, and perhaps even breaking it down into its original stamped components.

Thanks in advance. You folks are great.


James Dlapa
 

Bruce. If you can get your hands on “American machinist magazine” dates August 28, 1947 there is a great article in manufacturing processes of the Cobra engine. If not 
The October 2019 issued of the “tin block times” which is the west coast Crosley clubs publication reprinted the article. It is a very interesting read. Reach out to either Tim Foster or Rick Alexander to see about getting a copy. 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 6:03 AM Spock Arnold via Groups.Io <tmkldwwj=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bruce;
     I don't know where you live in Florida, however, this Saturday the 22nd, the Florida Region is having a meet in Sarasota.  If you go on the Clubs Facebook page (Crosley Automobiles Fun Little Cars) and make a request, I am sure someone will have a tin block they can bring along. Also if you look at the club web page under Crosley Engine family Tree, you may find much of the information you are looking for.
                    Dave Anspach 

On Sunday, February 16, 2020, 08:44:30 AM EST, bruce.derenski via Groups.Io <bruce.derenski=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:


Crosley Fans,

I work for a contractor that is interested in innovative ways of making an engine block, specifically methods that don't require casting. I immediately thought of the COBRA. Are there any specific members on here who are knowledgeable about exactly HOW Crosley manufactured that engine? Any books, articles or publications would be helpful, too. So would seeing one of these engines close-up. I live in Florida, so a local source is best, but I can travel. Also, some questions for anyone who has disassembled a COBRA: Does the COBRA block look any different than a CIBA? In other words, can you look at a COBRA block and see how it was made? I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get my hands on an old COBRA block for the purpose of examining it, and perhaps even breaking it down into its original stamped components.

Thanks in advance. You folks are great.


Robert Connearney
 



The Crosley engine was designed by Lloyd Taylor; Google him (and maybe add the word Crosley or engine). There is quite a bit of background  info, but I'm not sure if there is anything detailing specific construction.techniques. I did see mention of using a hydrogen furnace, whatever that is. Apparently the design objective was to get high output at minimum weight, for military/aircraft use. Thin wall casting techniques were not developed at the time, so the thinner fabricated steel assemblies were not only much lighter, but were more easily cooled, allowing higher compression ratios. Note that the cylinder head is integral with the block, and the valves are in-line, so they can be dropped out through the cylinder. If a twin cam with a hemi or pent-roof design is intended, large OD valve guides are necessary, and must be removed "out the top", prior to dropping the valves. Also note that the crankcase is an aluminum casting, which I believe can be a lot stiffer than steel, for a comparative weight. 

I believe Mercedes has used steel fabrications, at least on their Grand Prix and sports racing car engines of the fifties. Also, large diesels (e.g., marine and generators), so there may be some internet info on these.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "bruce.derenski via Groups.Io" <bruce.derenski@...>
Date: 2/16/20 8:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

Crosley Fans,

I work for a contractor that is interested in innovative ways of making an engine block, specifically methods that don't require casting. I immediately thought of the COBRA. Are there any specific members on here who are knowledgeable about exactly HOW Crosley manufactured that engine? Any books, articles or publications would be helpful, too. So would seeing one of these engines close-up. I live in Florida, so a local source is best, but I can travel. Also, some questions for anyone who has disassembled a COBRA: Does the COBRA block look any different than a CIBA? In other words, can you look at a COBRA block and see how it was made? I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile to get my hands on an old COBRA block for the purpose of examining it, and perhaps even breaking it down into its original stamped components.

Thanks in advance. You folks are great.


parkhunter@...
 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park


Barry Smedley
 

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Bruce Derenski
 

Park, the photos are great. My early questions have to do with how the individual stamped pieces are arranged, and your photos show some good details of that. I'm really curious if a tin block can be heated and disassembled.


Robert Connearney
 

Why don't you turn it off?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Barry Smedley <BSmedley@...>
Date: 2/21/20 8:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Bob H.
 

Or, at the very least, stop putting gas in it! 😉

-Bob 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 9:42 PM Robert Connearney via Groups.Io <rconnearney=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Why don't you turn it off?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Barry Smedley <BSmedley@...>
Date: 2/21/20 8:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


parkhunter@...
 

Bruce, my practical knowledge begins and ends with my engine. But quoting from “The Mighty Tin” article linked above...

The 4 cylinder block was constructed out of about 125 steel stamping. The pieces were held together by press fit, spot welds or crimping before brazing. The block is then copper brazed in a specially constructed 60 foot long furnace at 2060 degree F in a neutral atmosphere. The hardness of the alloy steel was controlled by the speed of cooling. The finished block weighs an extremely light 14 pounds.

I would suspect that if you heated the block enough to melt the brazing (2060 degrees?!?), then all you’d have holding it together would be the aforementioned crimps and spotwelds. 


Some people - probably the Gorrells - have done cross sections with bandsaws and could tell you more about the internal construction. 


- Park


seb fontana
 

In theory the braze should melt but you will have to knock it apart hot..


whistler@...
 

My Tin Block COBRA cutaway 


 

Very nice - would like to see this next to a CIBA cutaway

- Steve

On Feb 24, 2020, at 2:37 PM, whistler@... wrote:

My Tin Block COBRA cut
<Cut-away_COBRA_1_.jpg>
away 


whistler@...
 

My CIBA cutaway block


Steve Perry
 

Nice work...
Steve


On Feb 24, 2020, at 4:37 PM, whistler@... wrote:

My Tin Block COBRA cut
<Cut-away_COBRA_1_.jpg>
away