Topics

!952 Super Wagon 32 mph top speed?


Ken Ballein
 

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


Brett Wright
 

Just power your timing light with twelve bolts from another battery. It will then do the job.

Brett Wright
CEO
Wright Construction Co., Inc.

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein via groups.io <kballein@...> wrote:



Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


Brett Wright
 

Volts I meant obviously

Brett Wright
CEO
Wright Construction Co., Inc.

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:57 PM, Brett Wright via groups.io <bwright@...> wrote:



This message was sent from outside the company by someone with a display name matching a user in your organisation. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the source of this email and know the content is safe.

Just power your timing light with twelve bolts from another battery. It will then do the job.

Brett Wright
CEO
Wright Construction Co., Inc.

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein via groups.io <kballein@...> wrote:



Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


 

Hi Ken,
     I was having a similar problem with mine and it turned out to be under the distributor cap. There is a small piece that looks kind of like between leather and paper that goes up against the wall underneath the distributor cap and keeps the points from grounding out. Mine was askew and was allowing some spark through but not completely and I was losing power because of it. I put it back in place and now I have plenty of power. Just something you may want to check.
Tim King


On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:



Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


Don Pitchford
 

Ken,
My Dad's 48 wagon had a similar problem. It would idle all day, but lost power at about 3500 RPM. After trying several carburetors I traced it to bad connections in the ignition system. I can't explain how it was loosing spark at higher RPMs but after I cleaned all the ignition connections, replaced a few questionable spade lugs on the wires to the coil and made sure all the ground connections were good it will really wind up and go. This isn't necessarily a good thing in a vehicle with questionable mechanical brakes.

Good Luck,
Don Pitchford 


dpaananen52@...
 

I also have a 52 super wagon.  What is a reasonable top speed to expect?  I have gotten mine to a little over 40, but I just about have to use a calendar to time it.


Bob H.
 

I get the 51 VC and 51 super wagon up to 50mph pretty regularly on roads around here. It would go faster I'm sure but I'm not inclined to do so. 😉

-Bob 

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 5:52 PM <dpaananen52@...> wrote:
I also have a 52 super wagon.  What is a reasonable top speed to expect?  I have gotten mine to a little over 40, but I just about have to use a calendar to time it.


Steve
 

I've had mine to over 50. Wife was following and she confirmed. Accused me of trying to blow the engine. 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: dpaananen52@...
Date: 12/23/20 4:52 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] !952 Super Wagon 32 mph top speed?

I also have a 52 super wagon.  What is a reasonable top speed to expect?  I have gotten mine to a little over 40, but I just about have to use a calendar to time it.


Steve
 

I've had my Crofton Bug up to 45 and it has a 6.13 rear axle. 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: dpaananen52@...
Date: 12/23/20 4:52 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] !952 Super Wagon 32 mph top speed?

I also have a 52 super wagon.  What is a reasonable top speed to expect?  I have gotten mine to a little over 40, but I just about have to use a calendar to time it.


fred@...
 
Edited

If your Crosley is running well and steering, brakes, shocks are good, you should be able to top 65 MPH.  You may not want to if any other cars are around though.  My dead stock '49 Hotshot gives up a little after 65, our old '47 PU with a fresh motor would top 70.  Modified Crosleys can get quite a bit more speed if you can handle it.


Brett Wright
 

If nothing has been done to that carb since 1972, I would definitely disassemble it, clean everything and rebuild it. 

Brett Wright
CEO
Wright Construction Co., Inc.

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein via groups.io <kballein@...> wrote:



Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


L.E. Hardee
 

Back when I was a stupid teenager, I got my 13 year old 52 wagon to have the speedometer pointer to be bouncing off the pin just past 70mph.  BTW I was riding on the original worn 1952 Goodyear Super Cushion tires.  The car was doing the slow bounce just like an airplane does just before it leaves the runway.


On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 6:02 PM Steve <brawnybug@...> wrote:
I've had my Crofton Bug up to 45 and it has a 6.13 rear axle. 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
Date: 12/23/20 4:52 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] !952 Super Wagon 32 mph top speed?

I also have a 52 super wagon.  What is a reasonable top speed to expect?  I have gotten mine to a little over 40, but I just about have to use a calendar to time it.


Steve
 

I would echo that sentiment as well.  Before rebuilding my carbs, my cars would get up to around 30 and then just about stall out.  Had to run half choke to keep them running and get back home.  Any fuel left sitting in a carb for any extended period of time will cause varnish to build up and clog passages in the carb.  I live where ethanol is added to all fuels.  It is especially notorious for causing carb problems on small engines. 

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brett Wright
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 5:11 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] !952 Super Wagon 32 mph top speed?

 

If nothing has been done to that carb since 1972, I would definitely disassemble it, clean everything and rebuild it. 

Brett Wright

CEO

Wright Construction Co., Inc.



On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein via groups.io <kballein@...> wrote:



Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


Dennis Terdy
 

Simple question-how old is your gas?

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 3:44 PM Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken


Jim Bollman
 

A few things to go with the already suggested ideas.

If you're using gas with alcohol, anything old in the fuel system could shed crap that will mess up the carb including things in the carb. Old fuel lines are really bad about shading pieces of rubber as is the fuel pump diaphragm if the fuel pump hasn’t been rebuilt with alcohol resistant parts.

If it is a fuel problem and the carb isn’t completely plugged you might try some Sea Foam cars cleaner both sprayed in the carb and added to the fuel. It does miracles. If you have a Carter Carb, and have no experience rebuilding a carb, you may want to farm it out. If it is a Tillotson it is easier to rebuild but has a few tricks you need to know or you could ruin some parts taking it apart. Rebuilding kits and rebuilt carbs are available from our Crosley vendors. http://crosleyautoclub.com/PartsSuppliers.html

I have not used a timing light on a Crosley for over 40 years. Here is the way I set the timing. Set your points to the proper gap and connect a tachometer to your engine, I have an old Sears Dwell/Tach unit that I use. Start your Crosley and block or set your throttle for about 2000 rpm. Loosen the locking screw on the distributor and slowly turn back and forth till you maximize the rpm and tighten the distributor screw. You have now set the timing for best performance and economy. You have to do this at above 2000 rpm so that the mechanical advance is fully advanced.

Jim…

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken



Ken Ballein
 

All, 

Thanks for all the tips.  I did check the insulator on the bolt in distributor for the points.  Looked pretty iffy.  Took it apart and made a new insulator from similar gasket material.  Checked the coil and found it wired backwards.  Now the + wire goes to the points (positive ground).  Also found the ignition wire terminal nearly broken off.  Replaced it.

All good things to fix.  So far no change, except it seems to idle even better.

The gas is fresh, tank was dipped and coated, air dries for several days then filled with gas. 

I’ll try the timing as Jim suggested.  Haven’t  hooked up a tach yet.

 I do suspect the fuel line and/or the carb (Tillotson).  Already tried the Seafoam to no avail.

It will be a few days before I get back to it.

Thanks
Ken


On Dec 23, 2020, at 8:31 PM, Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

 A few things to go with the already suggested ideas.

If you're using gas with alcohol, anything old in the fuel system could shed crap that will mess up the carb including things in the carb. Old fuel lines are really bad about shading pieces of rubber as is the fuel pump diaphragm if the fuel pump hasn’t been rebuilt with alcohol resistant parts.

If it is a fuel problem and the carb isn’t completely plugged you might try some Sea Foam cars cleaner both sprayed in the carb and added to the fuel. It does miracles. If you have a Carter Carb, and have no experience rebuilding a carb, you may want to farm it out. If it is a Tillotson it is easier to rebuild but has a few tricks you need to know or you could ruin some parts taking it apart. Rebuilding kits and rebuilt carbs are available from our Crosley vendors. http://crosleyautoclub.com/PartsSuppliers.html

I have not used a timing light on a Crosley for over 40 years. Here is the way I set the timing. Set your points to the proper gap and connect a tachometer to your engine, I have an old Sears Dwell/Tach unit that I use. Start your Crosley and block or set your throttle for about 2000 rpm. Loosen the locking screw on the distributor and slowly turn back and forth till you maximize the rpm and tighten the distributor screw. You have now set the timing for best performance and economy. You have to do this at above 2000 rpm so that the mechanical advance is fully advanced.

Jim…

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken



crosleyshortsport
 

A couple things come to mind after reading your dilemma. You stated you have worked on the brakes. Jack up the car and be sure the brakes are not set too tight. Be sure they spin freely with very little drag. Also, pertaining to the fuel lines, be sure the rubber fuel lines are only being used as connectors between steel lines. The rubber connectors should not be more than three inches long. Longer lines can collapse. If you have not replaced the steel fuel line from the fuel pump to the fuel tank, I suggest to do so. A properly rebuilt original fuel pump will work fine. Let us know how you make out.   Jeffrey


On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 8:31 PM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:
A few things to go with the already suggested ideas.

If you're using gas with alcohol, anything old in the fuel system could shed crap that will mess up the carb including things in the carb. Old fuel lines are really bad about shading pieces of rubber as is the fuel pump diaphragm if the fuel pump hasn’t been rebuilt with alcohol resistant parts.

If it is a fuel problem and the carb isn’t completely plugged you might try some Sea Foam cars cleaner both sprayed in the carb and added to the fuel. It does miracles. If you have a Carter Carb, and have no experience rebuilding a carb, you may want to farm it out. If it is a Tillotson it is easier to rebuild but has a few tricks you need to know or you could ruin some parts taking it apart. Rebuilding kits and rebuilt carbs are available from our Crosley vendors. http://crosleyautoclub.com/PartsSuppliers.html

I have not used a timing light on a Crosley for over 40 years. Here is the way I set the timing. Set your points to the proper gap and connect a tachometer to your engine, I have an old Sears Dwell/Tach unit that I use. Start your Crosley and block or set your throttle for about 2000 rpm. Loosen the locking screw on the distributor and slowly turn back and forth till you maximize the rpm and tighten the distributor screw. You have now set the timing for best performance and economy. You have to do this at above 2000 rpm so that the mechanical advance is fully advanced.

Jim…

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken



David Reina
 

Hi Ken,

Just want to give a reminder.  If you rebuild your Tillotson you have to remove the emulsion tube before removing the top cover or else the tube gets bent.  You probably know this but I throw it out there just in case.

Dave
Brooklyn, NY



On Dec 23, 2020, at 9:01 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

All, 

Thanks for all the tips.  I did check the insulator on the bolt in distributor for the points.  Looked pretty iffy.  Took it apart and made a new insulator from similar gasket material.  Checked the coil and found it wired backwards.  Now the + wire goes to the points (positive ground).  Also found the ignition wire terminal nearly broken off.  Replaced it.

All good things to fix.  So far no change, except it seems to idle even better.

The gas is fresh, tank was dipped and coated, air dries for several days then filled with gas. 

I’ll try the timing as Jim suggested.  Haven’t  hooked up a tach yet.

 I do suspect the fuel line and/or the carb (Tillotson).  Already tried the Seafoam to no avail.

It will be a few days before I get back to it.

Thanks
Ken


On Dec 23, 2020, at 8:31 PM, Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:

 A few things to go with the already suggested ideas.

If you're using gas with alcohol, anything old in the fuel system could shed crap that will mess up the carb including things in the carb. Old fuel lines are really bad about shading pieces of rubber as is the fuel pump diaphragm if the fuel pump hasn’t been rebuilt with alcohol resistant parts.

If it is a fuel problem and the carb isn’t completely plugged you might try some Sea Foam cars cleaner both sprayed in the carb and added to the fuel. It does miracles. If you have a Carter Carb, and have no experience rebuilding a carb, you may want to farm it out. If it is a Tillotson it is easier to rebuild but has a few tricks you need to know or you could ruin some parts taking it apart. Rebuilding kits and rebuilt carbs are available from our Crosley vendors. http://crosleyautoclub.com/PartsSuppliers.html

I have not used a timing light on a Crosley for over 40 years. Here is the way I set the timing. Set your points to the proper gap and connect a tachometer to your engine, I have an old Sears Dwell/Tach unit that I use. Start your Crosley and block or set your throttle for about 2000 rpm. Loosen the locking screw on the distributor and slowly turn back and forth till you maximize the rpm and tighten the distributor screw. You have now set the timing for best performance and economy. You have to do this at above 2000 rpm so that the mechanical advance is fully advanced.

Jim…

On Dec 23, 2020, at 4:44 PM, Ken Ballein <kballein@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on my 52 Super Wagon.  It was stored since 1976.  I got it running, had the gas tank dipped and I coated with Red Coat.  I put all new brakes and rebuilt master cylinder.

It will only get up to 32 mph in 3rd gear.  Seems to lose power at about half throttle.  I just put a new 6v electric pump close to the tank (fused and through relay) running thru the mechanical pump, same exact problem, no difference at all.

I set timing by vacuum gauge, don't have a 6v timing light.

Do I need to pull the carb and clean it?  No fuel leaks, could the old rubber hose to the mechanical fuel pump be bad?  New plugs and points with seemingly good wires.

!st gear about 10 mph, second gear 20, third gear 32 mph.  

Just not sure what to do next.

Thanks,

Ken




Ken Ballein
 

Hey everyone,

Still working on my 52.  Rebuilt the Tillotson, actually not too bad at all.  I found a set of screwdriver bits that actually had bits to remove jets.  Worked great on the idle tube.  After the rebuild the electric fuel pump seem to overpower the float and flood the carb.  Didn't do that with the old one.  I might put the only one back in.

I am still having trouble.  Nothing I have done has made a bit of difference in the way it runs.  

I did hook up my Dad's old Craftsman 12v analyzer with a separate 12v battery.  The rpm check worked great.  

So now I know the idle is around 800 with default settings for the idle and power jet.  When it gets to about 1500 it's starts running awful.

Does anyone know at what point the mechanical advance starts to kick in?  I have a suspicion mine is stuck.  I did find a post about checking the screw that holds the condenser.  It's an original screw and doesn't appear to be going in too far.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Ken


Robert Kirk
 

It is most common for electric pumps to pressurize for US cars with much bigger motors thus more fuel.  British cars use about 3# pressure and probably would work.  I do stock these if interested.