#### 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

dave p

Andy,  What is maximum temperature these pumps are designed to handle

Dave Perry           OldSchool Restorations   North Alabama   USA

Andy Farley

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work.

Ron Frost

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw.
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. Jim Bollman

Ron, I didn't check your math but you are correct if you were replacing the 12v motor with a 6v that put out the same power. The 12v motor will pull less with 6v attached than 12v. Try this, if you put a 12v lamp on 6v, it doesn't draw twice the current and put out the same light it just puts out less light.

The only two question I see is will it take the heat, maybe and does it move enough water on 6 volts. I bet someone knows how much water the stock water pump moves.

Jim...

On Dec 11, 2019, at 2:24 PM, Ron Frost via Groups.Io <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw.
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work.

PATRICIA GRITTI

Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.
Don

On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw.
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work.

Bob H.

Looks like the Prius supplies power to the water pump through a 15A 12V fuse. So, if it did draw the same wattage @ 6V, you'd be looking at 30A or less (most likely less, as has been pointed out already).

-Bob

On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:55 PM PATRICIA GRITTI <donald-gritti@...> wrote:
Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.
Don
On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw.
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work.

Andy Farley

It is standard practice to fuse at about 50 percent of the expected current draw. So you would expect that the current draw at 12v would be less than 7.5 amps. This is a permanent magnet motor so it should have fairly low current draw.  My biggest concern with running at 6v would be that there would be additional current draw causing overheating of the windings.

Andy Farley

In another post I said that I tried the pump on 6v (not in the car) and it produced less flow than the 5 gallons per minute than it does on 12v. I'm guessing about 2 to 3 gallons per minute.

Ron Frost

I'd like to know what the amperage draw is on 6 volts. That would be interesting.

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 04:00:48 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

In another post I said that I tried the pump on 6v (not in the car) and it produced less flow than the 5 gallons per minute than it does on 12v. I'm guessing about 2 to 3 gallons per minute.

David

Why not convert the car to 12v?  Then the problem goes away.  While that’s not original Crosley, neither is an electric water pump.

If you have a 12v system, there are many electric water pumps available.  I ran a Crosley H-mod with an electric water pump with no issues (no alternator, total loss electric system).  I got my pump at Pegasus Auto Racing.

David

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: PATRICIA GRITTI
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:04 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.

Don

On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw.

Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

Ron Perma Frost

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work.

Andy Farley

That's what I'm doing. My CC is converted to 12v with alternator and the Prius pump setup. So far it seems to be working fine. The whole reason that I came up with this setup is that I was having problems with the original water pump being out of alignment and leaking.