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Calling all water pump afficianados


Richard Williams
 

I rebuilt a water pump several years age and it has worked very well. I used a kit from Butch and followed his instructions. It does not leak at all. In fact it is so good that I put antifreeze in it and it still holds it today. It has been driven several times and the coolant is still good. I added an overflow bottle to it which works well also. Rich

 

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From: Andy Drake
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 12:11 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Calling all water pump afficianados

 

I've rebuilt about 6-8 of the various pump styles. All styles are relatively plentiful and to be honest, pretty much every one leaks at least a little bit. As Jeff and Seb have both mentioned,  the four bolt style does pretty decent between the nut, packing itself, and the sticky waterproof grease. I crank mine down every so often.

 

I have seen some amazingly worn impeller shafts -- wobbly and deeply grooved. Even with packing, it seems like it would be practically impossible to keep water in the system and I'm wondering if premature wear wasn't a cause of overheating for at least a small number of tinblocks.

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Gary
 

I have both pumps. They can be had.....!!

Gary McFarlane

On Apr 15, 2019, at 10:58 AM, crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Paula,   There are two types of pumps. Within the club, they are known as 4 bolt or 6 bolt pumps. The 4 bolt is the one with the ability to tighten a brass nut against the packing. The 6 bolt does not have the brass nut to tighten and is less desirable. I am thinking either your Dad or someone else used a similar pump and mated it to the correct bracket. I can send a photo of both types of pumps when I return home.
    Jeffrey

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:48 AM Paula W <paula_whitney@...> wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,

Do you have a diagram or photo of a correct Crosley 3-bolt water pump? I'm surprised at the news that this is not Crosley. Dad bought the car originally with a tin block engine. It cracked with only a few miles and they replaced it with the cast iron. I add this in case that helps in any way to cipher out anything about this pump. The only other work Dad had done on the car was some minor cosmetics after a fender bender. Of course I'm going by what he told me and his pencil notes he kept inside the manual.

The pump and small generator are both green to match the car.

Any chance they used more than one type of pump?

Paula


Andy Drake
 

I've rebuilt about 6-8 of the various pump styles. All styles are relatively plentiful and to be honest, pretty much every one leaks at least a little bit. As Jeff and Seb have both mentioned,  the four bolt style does pretty decent between the nut, packing itself, and the sticky waterproof grease. I crank mine down every so often.

I have seen some amazingly worn impeller shafts -- wobbly and deeply grooved. Even with packing, it seems like it would be practically impossible to keep water in the system and I'm wondering if premature wear wasn't a cause of overheating for at least a small number of tinblocks.


crosleyshortsport
 

I learned something new today. I did not know there was an early pump that was a 3 bolt. Here is a photo of two pump styles, and the only ones I have ever seen.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 12:07 PM Jim Bollman <Jim@...> wrote:
As I said in an earlier message, it is a Crosley pump, intended for small generator on early CC models.

There are 3 styles of pump.

Jim...

On Apr 15, 2019, at 11:58 AM, crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Paula,   There are two types of pumps. Within the club, they are known as 4 bolt or 6 bolt pumps. The 4 bolt is the one with the ability to tighten a brass nut against the packing. The 6 bolt does not have the brass nut to tighten and is less desirable. I am thinking either your Dad or someone else used a similar pump and mated it to the correct bracket. I can send a photo of both types of pumps when I return home.
    Jeffrey

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:48 AM Paula W <paula_whitney@...> wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,

Do you have a diagram or photo of a correct Crosley 3-bolt water pump? I'm surprised at the news that this is not Crosley. Dad bought the car originally with a tin block engine. It cracked with only a few miles and they replaced it with the cast iron. I add this in case that helps in any way to cipher out anything about this pump. The only other work Dad had done on the car was some minor cosmetics after a fender bender. Of course I'm going by what he told me and his pencil notes he kept inside the manual.

The pump and small generator are both green to match the car. 

Any chance they used more than one type of pump?

Paula




Jim Bollman
 

As I said in an earlier message, it is a Crosley pump, intended for small generator on early CC models.

There are 3 styles of pump.

Jim...

On Apr 15, 2019, at 11:58 AM, crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Paula,   There are two types of pumps. Within the club, they are known as 4 bolt or 6 bolt pumps. The 4 bolt is the one with the ability to tighten a brass nut against the packing. The 6 bolt does not have the brass nut to tighten and is less desirable. I am thinking either your Dad or someone else used a similar pump and mated it to the correct bracket. I can send a photo of both types of pumps when I return home.
    Jeffrey

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:48 AM Paula W <paula_whitney@...> wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,

Do you have a diagram or photo of a correct Crosley 3-bolt water pump? I'm surprised at the news that this is not Crosley. Dad bought the car originally with a tin block engine. It cracked with only a few miles and they replaced it with the cast iron. I add this in case that helps in any way to cipher out anything about this pump. The only other work Dad had done on the car was some minor cosmetics after a fender bender. Of course I'm going by what he told me and his pencil notes he kept inside the manual.

The pump and small generator are both green to match the car. 

Any chance they used more than one type of pump?

Paula




crosleyshortsport
 

Paula,   There are two types of pumps. Within the club, they are known as 4 bolt or 6 bolt pumps. The 4 bolt is the one with the ability to tighten a brass nut against the packing. The 6 bolt does not have the brass nut to tighten and is less desirable. I am thinking either your Dad or someone else used a similar pump and mated it to the correct bracket. I can send a photo of both types of pumps when I return home.
    Jeffrey

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:48 AM Paula W <paula_whitney@...> wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,

Do you have a diagram or photo of a correct Crosley 3-bolt water pump? I'm surprised at the news that this is not Crosley. Dad bought the car originally with a tin block engine. It cracked with only a few miles and they replaced it with the cast iron. I add this in case that helps in any way to cipher out anything about this pump. The only other work Dad had done on the car was some minor cosmetics after a fender bender. Of course I'm going by what he told me and his pencil notes he kept inside the manual.

The pump and small generator are both green to match the car.

Any chance they used more than one type of pump?

Paula


Paula W
 

Attached is a photo of the 3 bolt in place before we removed it for the rebuild.


Paula W
 

Hi Jeffrey,

Do you have a diagram or photo of a correct Crosley 3-bolt water pump? I'm surprised at the news that this is not Crosley. Dad bought the car originally with a tin block engine. It cracked with only a few miles and they replaced it with the cast iron. I add this in case that helps in any way to cipher out anything about this pump. The only other work Dad had done on the car was some minor cosmetics after a fender bender. Of course I'm going by what he told me and his pencil notes he kept inside the manual.

The pump and small generator are both green to match the car.

Any chance they used more than one type of pump?

Paula


seb fontana
 

I rebuilt a 4 bolt water pump..New bushing and shaft of SS..New packing and thorough cleaning of packing gland nut threads..Guessed at number of turns of packing, shimmed pump to correct lineament to gen and elongated holes in pump body so to adjust for/aft so pump impeller doesn't scrap housing..Installed screw type grease cup full of PMC high pressure lube..Upon running I had to tighten the gland nut several times in the first 500 miles or so but then leveled off .  The PMC lube would melt out and needed refill often but I figured small price to pay for pump longevity..Fast forward 9000 miles..Haven't seen a drip of coolant leak or have had to adjust the gland nut in the last 7000 miles.. Last year I found a water proof/high temp grease I thought may work so in the grease cup it went..Works well, only need about a 1/4 turn every once in a while, can't turn it if grease is not needed so it will last well over couple thousand miles; the tube of grease will last a life time!.. Nice to luck out once in a while..Seb.


PATRICIA GRITTI
 

  1) Jim Bollman; Apologize for bogarting Jeffrey's message. Have not been able to access The Crosley Gang for a new thread. Probably forgot the password.

  2) Jeffrey; If you're the guy who wrote the how to on adapting a modern temp gauge to a Crosley temp face would you write brief hints on doing the conversion for the Crosley Gang? If you're not the guy wish the original writer would step up?

  Don 

On April 15, 2019 at 6:15 AM crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Paula,  The water pump you hsve shown is not Crosley. The bracket certainly looks correct. I wonder if the same process you describe for repair could be applied to the Crosley pumps. Seems to me that the suppliers for the club would want to perfect the rebuild of our pumps. They could then offer a pump that does not leak.
    Jeffrey Ackerman

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:50 PM Mike S < miso7@...> wrote:
I purchased a used 4 bolt & a kit from Mr. Edwards (so I could do some tinkering.....I spent 25 years as a water pump engineer).  First thing I noticed was the new shaft appears to be hot rolled steel & was not polished.  I'll work it over in the lathe before trying to use it.

 

 




Jim Bollman
 

Jeff, it is the early CC water pump used with the small generator.


On Apr 15, 2019, at 6:15 AM, crosleyshortsport <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:

Paula,  The water pump you hsve shown is not Crosley. The bracket certainly looks correct. I wonder if the same process you describe for repair could be applied to the Crosley pumps. Seems to me that the suppliers for the club would want to perfect the rebuild of our pumps. They could then offer a pump that does not leak.
    Jeffrey Ackerman

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:50 PM Mike S <miso7@...> wrote:
I purchased a used 4 bolt & a kit from Mr. Edwards (so I could do some tinkering.....I spent 25 years as a water pump engineer).  First thing I noticed was the new shaft appears to be hot rolled steel & was not polished.  I'll work it over in the lathe before trying to use it.




crosleyshortsport
 

Paula,  The water pump you hsve shown is not Crosley. The bracket certainly looks correct. I wonder if the same process you describe for repair could be applied to the Crosley pumps. Seems to me that the suppliers for the club would want to perfect the rebuild of our pumps. They could then offer a pump that does not leak.
    Jeffrey Ackerman

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:50 PM Mike S <miso7@...> wrote:
I purchased a used 4 bolt & a kit from Mr. Edwards (so I could do some tinkering.....I spent 25 years as a water pump engineer).  First thing I noticed was the new shaft appears to be hot rolled steel & was not polished.  I'll work it over in the lathe before trying to use it.


Mike S
 

I purchased a used 4 bolt & a kit from Mr. Edwards (so I could do some tinkering.....I spent 25 years as a water pump engineer).  First thing I noticed was the new shaft appears to be hot rolled steel & was not polished.  I'll work it over in the lathe before trying to use it.


Paula W
 

My apologies on the duplicate attachments. I had attached as pictures and thought I properly deleted them before attaching again as files.


Paula W
 

I didn't know for sure where to post this without starting a new thread, but I wanted to share something we did to extend the life of our original leaky 3 bolt water pump for our '47 sedan.
We used the Service Motors rebuild kit, but decided we also needed to do something about the worn bearing. The impeller and housing was not made with great precision.
With courage gained after a consultation with a retired machinist / car enthusiast, we approached an active local machinist who  built us a new back/bearing piece. So far so good. You'll see it is a little thicker. I have forgotten the bearing material at the moment, but we were handed the leftover rod material for, you know, when we need it again.


Richard Williams <rwms_2002@...>
 

When rebuilding any water pump, Crosley the kit comes with a new shaft and should be used. I have rebuilt 2 different water pumps, 1 6bolt and 1 4bolt. I did these as Butch's paper that came with the kit stated and have had good luck with both.

RICH W.



On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:14 AM, "apdrake@... [Crosley_Gang]" wrote:


 
I picked up a tube of boat grease and will give it a squirt and see what happens. When I rebuilt the pump, I noticed the old shaft was unbelievably wobbly and I'm not sure how this thing never leaked. Maybe that's why it was in my parts bucket!?!

In any case, thanks to everyone for their help.




apdrake@...
 

I picked up a tube of boat grease and will give it a squirt and see what happens. When I rebuilt the pump, I noticed the old shaft was unbelievably wobbly and I'm not sure how this thing never leaked. Maybe that's why it was in my parts bucket!?!

In any case, thanks to everyone for their help.


chuckk@...
 

I like the adj. packing pumps--use a graphite packing-- lube it well with boat lube(water proof) that is the key--tighten it a few times to make a good seal & keep your fingers crossed. I'm on about 12 years with one adj years ago.  Chuck-k


"Pete" <berard_m@...>
 

   Seb,
 
   I agree with you, and that’s been my experience with all the
packing gland type pumps I've dealt with for over 60 years, but not with the
Crosley washing machine pump.
 
  Most of my experience with this type pump would be with pumps
on inboard motor boats, and chiefly Chris Craft, Correct Craft, and
other 30s, 40, and 50s Hercules powered.  There is a given acceptable
drip count for these applications as well as the prop shaft,  all above
the water line of course. My Crosley  pump would sink a boat in a day. 
 
  So far I've had the best (still sucks) success with the four bolt units,
due to the avail of a precise follow up gland adjustment, (safety wired) but I
have a passel of others I have ‘FOOLED’ with.
 
  There has been one of our venders offer to build a successful pump
that would be FREE of charge to me,....... for goodness sakes!!!!!
Not yet.
 
   My response was;   I’ll pay twice the going rate for a a RB pump plus
freight both ways and apple pie alamode.
                No  real takers, so far.
                                                   
              I’m fed up,... and why not?.
 

Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Crosley_Gang] Calling all water pump afficianados
 
 

I just rebuilt a 4 bolt last year...New bushing and shaft, new packing from Mcmaster Carr..Guessed at how much packing to put in, I think I did 3 turns..I don't use a grease fitting per se, I use grease supply that every once in a while you give a half turn or so and fill once a year with extreme pressure lube..Initially the packing does put drag on the pump and does twist the drive coupling some but the lube gets to the packing too so it lessons up after a bit..And I never expect the seal to not leak, a drip once in a while is acceptable as it does see 3000 rpm most of the time ..... .


speedoo51@...
 

I just rebuilt a 4 bolt last year...New bushing and shaft, new packing from Mcmaster Carr..Guessed at how much packing to put in, I think I did 3 turns..I don't use a grease fitting per se, I use grease supply that every once in a while you give a half turn or so and fill once a year with extreme pressure lube..Initially the packing does put drag on the pump and does twist the drive coupling some but the lube gets to the packing too so it lessons up after a bit..And I never expect the seal to not leak, a drip once in a while is acceptable as it does see 3000 rpm most of the time ..... .