Date   
Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Kenn Cahill
 

We have a brake shoe arc grinder, but are in need of the abrasive strips that are necessary for its operation. Does anyone have a source of these abrasive strips?
Kenn Cahill

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Butch
 

Turning the drums, on a lathe, (referring to the rears, especially) is a bit more difficult than it appears.

You must have a good way to center the drum on its axis, and keep it true thru its travel, while cutting.

Getting a good cut finish (remember, you are boring), without chatter marks, can be tough, but is doable with patience and practice. A very rigid setup is mandatory.

Butch

On 10/12/2019 8:00 AM, Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io wrote:
I would think that out there in places are old drum lathes and grinders available . Back in the 70s the Gooberment cracked down and ordered the grinders out of shops due to asbestos dust. Well, no more asbestos, so the grinders would be OK, although I would strongly advise a good respirator. As I have a metal working lathe I could even turn the small CC drums on it, just need to arc them.
_._,_._,_

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Tim Hamblen
 

That's the spirit Mike. BTW look on fleabay. There's manuals for auction and sale there for the grinders. Not bad price either, but I'd even bet there's stuff on the 'Net on how to do it.

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Tim Hamblen
 

I would think that out there in places are old drum lathes and grinders available . Back in the 70s the Gooberment cracked down and ordered the grinders out of shops due to asbestos dust. Well, no more asbestos, so the grinders would be OK, although I would strongly advise a good respirator. As I have a metal working lathe I could even turn the small CC drums on it, just need to arc them.

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Michael Braun
 

In response to Tim Hamblen, I have an old Brake shoe arc grinder although I have never used it.  I have a 47 Pick Up with hydraulic brakes but the truck doesn’t stop worth a damn.  I suspect the shoes don’t meet the drum as was discussed.  If someone is near Dover, DE and knows how to use the grinder, I would be glad to host a “brake shoe grinding session”. 

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

David Reina
 

Hi Fred,

Thanks for writing and also calling with the info about the long and short shoe positions.  I’m up in Boston tonight at my father in laws house where I’ve had my 47 sedan tucked away in his garage.  Last night I finished riveting four pairs of linings.  I had brought the car up from New York two summers ago to participate in Charles Gould’s three days microcars event.  Part of the event involved a tour through MA of almost 100 miles. Just before bring the car to Boston I had installed new brake cables and new metallic woven material shoes. I worked several days trying to get good stopping performance from the new parts but could not achieve a crisp stop. During the microcar tour I was not happy with the braking. It was scary when there was a stop sign at the bottom of a hill. Every time we stopped on the tour I was under the car trying to adjust the brakes tighter. I was hoping they would improve as they bedded in. No luck and on the return part of the tour a front lining came off the shoe (probably from heat softening the epoxy bonding glue). This locked up the front wheel and upon inspection caused the cast iron shoe to break in many parts.  I hate to admit but it’s taken me two years to get it together and try and fix the brakes. I did use 3/16” material which I bought some years ago.  My friend Jak gave me a bunch of old brake shoes so I could reline. them in my shop and have them ready for when I got to Boston.  My cars shoes were cast iron. I know that there is also a steel style shoe and I also noticed that there is a third varient. It’s a cast iron shoe which uses a different shape where the shoe meets the cam. Instead of the plain flat edge this other style shoe has a half circle cut away on the center of the cam edge which fits against a different style cam. I’d never heard of this before.  For my job I only used the straight edge style   I had a good selection of shoes to pick from. All but one was riveted. Two in the batch had broken in the past and were brazed. I didn’t use them although the had held up ok. One  shoe was glued and that shoe had no rivet holes drilled through. All the riveted shoes were about 8 1/8” in length and centered on the shoes. I didn’t have enough information last night to figure out long and short linings. It seemed that if you go with a short lining you will miss one rivet hole on the shoe.  I am concerned hearing from the discussion that the 3/16” material may be to tight to fit in the drum.   Again, thank you for your advise. I’m hoping that by Sunday I will have working brakes.  Dave

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Butch
 

We had one but sold it when we sold Service Motors.

Another problem, with the 3/16" inch lining (as I recall), often it won't even fit in the drum, without doing some arcing/grinding on it.

Without the shoe arcing machine, it's a major pain fitting them.

Butch

On 10/11/2019 9:44 PM, Tim Hamblen via Groups.Io wrote:
Here's the problem with brake shoes and linings today. No one arc grinds shoes. Either they don't know how or simply don't have a grinder. I'd love to find an old AAMCO grinder.You just put linings on the shoes without arc grinding the shoes and the shoes are only touching the drums in a very small area. I think this is the single biggest problem with Crosley brakes.It matters not if you have 9" or 8" of lining if they are only touching the drum an inch or two.The very first thing my old auto mechanics teacher?? taught us about brakes was arc grinding shoes.That was 48 years ago. There has to be a grinder out there somewhere.
_._,_._,_

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Tim Hamblen
 

Here's the problem with brake shoes and linings today. No one arc grinds shoes. Either they don't know how or simply don't have a grinder. I'd love to find an old AAMCO grinder.You just put linings on the shoes without arc grinding the shoes and the shoes are only touching the drums in a very small area. I think this is the single biggest problem with Crosley brakes.It matters not if you have 9" or 8" of lining if they are only touching the drum an inch or two.The very first thing my old auto mechanics teacher  taught us about brakes was arc grinding shoes.That was 48 years ago. There has to be a grinder out there somewhere.

Re: farmoroad seat

crosleyshortsport
 

One more, and this is 1 inch tubing.


On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:14 PM jeffrey ackerman <crosleyshortsport@...> wrote:
More pics

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:10 PM crosleyshortsport via Groups.Io <crosleyshortsport=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Re: farmoroad seat

crosleyshortsport
 

More pics


On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:10 PM crosleyshortsport via Groups.Io <crosleyshortsport=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Re: farmoroad seat

crosleyshortsport
 

Re: Crosley wheels

crosleyshortsport
 

In reference to the wheels looking nicer on a Super sport, At one time, club member, Jim Oliver made up several sets of very well made spacers for the rear hubs. I wad fortunate enough to purchase a set, and it really does make a big difference with handling and looks.


On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 12:25 PM Jerry and Kathy <jkmcc@...> wrote:
Here are a couple of pictures of the back of the recessed wheel as requested
I also noticed this one does not have the 2 rivets at each point where the hub meets the outer rim.

Re: Crosley wheels

Jerry and Kathy
 

Here are a couple of pictures of the back of the recessed wheel as requested
I also noticed this one does not have the 2 rivets at each point where the hub meets the outer rim.

Re: Crosley wheels and VC spacers.

Steve
 

For those concerned about the appearance of the stock wheels on the rear of a VC, there were aftermarket spacers available in ½ inch and 1 inch thicknesses.  I have the 1 inch spacers on my VC.  They require longer lug bolts.  In addition to improving the appearance, they allegedly let the roadsters handle better by giving a wider tread width in the rear.

 

-Steve M.

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of L.E. Hardee
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:56 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Crosley wheels

 

Can you post a picture of the back side of the more recessed rim?  My initial thought is that someone removed the center hub, reversed it and welded it back in.  The bead width on the recessed rim appears wider and the hub appears to be attached further back on the drop center of the outer rim. 

 

The Crosley style rims were used on many other applications other than the Crosley car, like trailer manufacturers.  I believe they were a purchased item, not made in house by Crosley.  The rim manufacturer may have sold rims for another use that required more of a recess.  Speculation on my part if your deep dish rim is factory made this way and not modified. 

 

The deep wheel would look great on the rear of a VC Crosley.  The stock rim looks lost in the wheel opening on the rear of a HotShot or Super Sports.  Bringing the tire closer to the rear fender would improve the appearance in my opinion.

 

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:39 PM Jerry and Kathy <jkmcc@...> wrote:

I was given a couple of Crosley wheels for my Hotshot. When I got them home I noticed they were different in the hub offsets - one matches the ones that I have on the car - the other is totally different - Any idea what the odd one is off of?

When I lay a straight edge across the wheel and take the measurement from the hump by the edge of the hubcap cap and to the hole in the center these are the measurements I get
The one that matches the ones on my car measures approx 1/2" to the hump and 1 5/8" the the center hub hole
The other one measures about 1 1/2" to the hump and 2 1/2" to the center hub hole

Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jerry

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

fred@...
 
Edited

The front shoe is the "leading" shoe and takes more of the braking force, the "trailing" - rear shoe has less effect. So the primary (front) shoe will be shorter and the rear longer to try to equalize the load as the car travels forward.  But unless you are going to drive your Crosley like a NY taxi, there will be little or no noticeable difference.

Re: Steering wheel removal

Butch
 

Since no one has addressed this in a nondestructive manner, Service Motors does or did, rent a special puller set for removing steering wheels, without damage.

Lacking that, you can use a bearing puller/separator plate, assembled with the flat side to the bottom of the wheel.

Then use a gear puller, attached to the separator plate, and pull against the nut (preferably with a flat washer on top of the nut).

It's a but awkward to maneuver, having an extra set of hands helps, but it can be done.

Butch

On 10/6/2019 5:26 PM, Ron D. wrote:
OK guys, lets hear your best way to remove a steering wheel, without breaking it. I tried screwing a nut on, close to the wheel, but not touching it, then screw a bolt down in the nut, and snug it against the steering shaft threads, and pull up on the wheel while hitting the bolt with a hammer.?? Didn't work for me. I have been spraying it with PB Blaster for several weeks, but that hasn't helped either.
_._,_._

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Crosley wheels

L.E. Hardee
 

Can you post a picture of the back side of the more recessed rim?  My initial thought is that someone removed the center hub, reversed it and welded it back in.  The bead width on the recessed rim appears wider and the hub appears to be attached further back on the drop center of the outer rim. 

The Crosley style rims were used on many other applications other than the Crosley car, like trailer manufacturers.  I believe they were a purchased item, not made in house by Crosley.  The rim manufacturer may have sold rims for another use that required more of a recess.  Speculation on my part if your deep dish rim is factory made this way and not modified. 

The deep wheel would look great on the rear of a VC Crosley.  The stock rim looks lost in the wheel opening on the rear of a HotShot or Super Sports.  Bringing the tire closer to the rear fender would improve the appearance in my opinion.


On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:39 PM Jerry and Kathy <jkmcc@...> wrote:
I was given a couple of Crosley wheels for my Hotshot. When I got them home I noticed they were different in the hub offsets - one matches the ones that I have on the car - the other is totally different - Any idea what the odd one is off of?

When I lay a straight edge across the wheel and take the measurement from the hump by the edge of the hubcap cap and to the hole in the center these are the measurements I get
The one that matches the ones on my car measures approx 1/2" to the hump and 1 5/8" the the center hub hole
The other one measures about 1 1/2" to the hump and 2 1/2" to the center hub hole

Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jerry

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

David Reina
 

Hi Butch,

As always I really appreciate your help. I’m just finishing riveting the first set. Its going to be a late night.

Best regards,
Dave

On Oct 10, 2019, at 9:24 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

David,

No I don't know for sure, I've disassembled them in all configurations.

The Service Manual shows, the 9" with the short shoe to the rear, but that really means not a lot, given the general nature of the Crosley Service Manual.

Sorry to be of so little help,

Butch

On 10/10/2019 8:46 PM, David Reina via Groups.Io wrote:
Also Butch I have some lining material that I bought a long time ago and which was rough cut into long and short lengths. The short ones are 7 1/2??? and the long ones are longer than the shoes and will need to be cut down. Any suggestion on how to orient the shorter pieces?
On Oct 10, 2019, at 8:20 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

David,

Crosley, like most manufacturers, used a long and a short shoe, this was done for various reasons.

When we had Service Motors, and when I do shoes here, now, I use long linings on all shoes. There is no detrimental reason not too.

Crosleys, especially the 6" cable braked cars, can use all the braking/stopping power that they can muster up.

Butch

On 10/10/2019 8:14 PM, David Reina via Groups.Io wrote:
I am trying to rivet new brake linings onto the cast iron shoes for my 47 sedan. I am ready to cut the linings and drill them for the rivets but am confused by some information in my old manual. It says??? The service brake lining( for use on brake shoes with rivets ) is 1??? shorter in the cam end and is assembled on the brake shoe toward the adjustment.??? Will someone decipher this for me. Both shoes end up at the cam and all eight linings I removed were the same length and all the same spacing on the shoe. About 7/16??? from each end of the shoe. I was hoping to get this done tonight so I could try and install them this weekend. I could go with the length of what was removed but am wondering if I am missing something.

Regards,
Dave


Crosley wheels

Jerry and Kathy
 

I was given a couple of Crosley wheels for my Hotshot. When I got them home I noticed they were different in the hub offsets - one matches the ones that I have on the car - the other is totally different - Any idea what the odd one is off of?

When I lay a straight edge across the wheel and take the measurement from the hump by the edge of the hubcap cap and to the hole in the center these are the measurements I get
The one that matches the ones on my car measures approx 1/2" to the hump and 1 5/8" the the center hub hole
The other one measures about 1 1/2" to the hump and 2 1/2" to the center hub hole

Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jerry

Re: Question about installing new brake linings on a 47

Butch
 

David,

No I don't know for sure, I've disassembled them in all configurations.

The Service Manual shows, the 9" with the short shoe to the rear, but that really means not a lot, given the general nature of the Crosley Service Manual.

Sorry to be of so little help,

Butch

On 10/10/2019 8:46 PM, David Reina via Groups.Io wrote:
Also Butch I have some lining material that I bought a long time ago and which was rough cut into long and short lengths. The short ones are 7 1/2??? and the long ones are longer than the shoes and will need to be cut down. Any suggestion on how to orient the shorter pieces?
On Oct 10, 2019, at 8:20 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

David,

Crosley, like most manufacturers, used a long and a short shoe, this was done for various reasons.

When we had Service Motors, and when I do shoes here, now, I use long linings on all shoes. There is no detrimental reason not too.

Crosleys, especially the 6" cable braked cars, can use all the braking/stopping power that they can muster up.

Butch

On 10/10/2019 8:14 PM, David Reina via Groups.Io wrote:
I am trying to rivet new brake linings onto the cast iron shoes for my 47 sedan. I am ready to cut the linings and drill them for the rivets but am confused by some information in my old manual. It says??? The service brake lining( for use on brake shoes with rivets ) is 1??? shorter in the cam end and is assembled on the brake shoe toward the adjustment.??? Will someone decipher this for me. Both shoes end up at the cam and all eight linings I removed were the same length and all the same spacing on the shoe. About 7/16??? from each end of the shoe. I was hoping to get this done tonight so I could try and install them this weekend. I could go with the length of what was removed but am wondering if I am missing something.

Regards,
Dave