Date   
Re: 1951 super

Jim Bollman
 

Could be, I only see one mounting screw on the top edge in the second photo and yours has two. Could have been a running change, 2 looks better for a secure mount that wouldn't flex and break.

On Dec 12, 2019, at 8:04 PM, Steve Olinger <olinger@...> wrote:

Thanks for the photo. I think that it is the original bracket less the strap that holds the tank on. That is the same spot and bolt positions as mine. Steve

Re: 1951 super

Steve Olinger
 

Thanks for the photo. I think that it is the original bracket less the strap that holds the tank on. That is the same spot and bolt positions as mine. Steve

Re: 1951 super

Jim Bollman
 

Might be a different style Vita tank bracket. Here are pictures of one from an ad and one on a Super Sports at the Nationals. Also shows two different style Vitameter.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 4:49 PM, John Stein <johnkstein@...> wrote:

here's a pic of the vita meter bracket so I've been told.
<20191211_104520.jpg>

Re: 1951 super

John Stein
 

here's a pic of the vita meter bracket so I've been told.

Florida Region Reorganization Meet on Feb. 22 Sarasota FL

Jim Bollman
 

The Florida Region will hold a reorganization meet on Feb. 22 at Charlie Wakes home in Sarasota.  

 

Working on all arrangements, but tentatively arrive by 11 am.  

Food at noon (please bring a dish to share).

Bring your car, if you can, for an informal meet.  

 

Please contact Dave Anspach <tmkldwwj@...> with questions and to sign up.  

 

Open to all Crosley people whether you have a car or not.

 

Charlie Wake

2511 53rd St

Sarasota, FL

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Andy Farley
 

That's what I'm doing. My CC is converted to 12v with alternator and the Prius pump setup. So far it seems to be working fine. The whole reason that I came up with this setup is that I was having problems with the original water pump being out of alignment and leaking.

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

David
 

Why not convert the car to 12v?  Then the problem goes away.  While that’s not original Crosley, neither is an electric water pump.

 

If you have a 12v system, there are many electric water pumps available.  I ran a Crosley H-mod with an electric water pump with no issues (no alternator, total loss electric system).  I got my pump at Pegasus Auto Racing.

 

David

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: PATRICIA GRITTI
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:04 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

 

 Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.

Don

On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw. 

Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?

 

 

 Ron Perma Frost

 

 

 

 

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:

 

 

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 


 

 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Ron Frost
 

I'd like to know what the amperage draw is on 6 volts. That would be interesting.

 Ron Perma Frost
 
 


On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 04:00:48 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:


In another post I said that I tried the pump on 6v (not in the car) and it produced less flow than the 5 gallons per minute than it does on 12v. I'm guessing about 2 to 3 gallons per minute. 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Andy Farley
 

In another post I said that I tried the pump on 6v (not in the car) and it produced less flow than the 5 gallons per minute than it does on 12v. I'm guessing about 2 to 3 gallons per minute. 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Andy Farley
 

It is standard practice to fuse at about 50 percent of the expected current draw. So you would expect that the current draw at 12v would be less than 7.5 amps. This is a permanent magnet motor so it should have fairly low current draw.  My biggest concern with running at 6v would be that there would be additional current draw causing overheating of the windings. 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Bob H.
 

Looks like the Prius supplies power to the water pump through a 15A 12V fuse. So, if it did draw the same wattage @ 6V, you'd be looking at 30A or less (most likely less, as has been pointed out already).

-Bob

On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:55 PM PATRICIA GRITTI <donald-gritti@...> wrote:
 Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.
Don
On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw. 
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?


 Ron Perma Frost
 

 
 


On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:


Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 

 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

PATRICIA GRITTI
 

 Don't think the Prius pump draws amperage Frost calculates when it is used in a 12 volt Prius. Believe at 6 volts the pump would do less work than at 12 volts. Not sure what the amperage would be if the Prius pump were used to cool a Crosley. It  would be interesting to try the pump in a 6 volt Crosley.
Don

On December 11, 2019 at 2:24 PM "Ron Frost via Groups.Io" <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw. 
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?


 Ron Perma Frost
 

 
 


On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:


Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 

 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Jim Bollman
 

Ron, I didn't check your math but you are correct if you were replacing the 12v motor with a 6v that put out the same power. The 12v motor will pull less with 6v attached than 12v. Try this, if you put a 12v lamp on 6v, it doesn't draw twice the current and put out the same light it just puts out less light.

The only two question I see is will it take the heat, maybe and does it move enough water on 6 volts. I bet someone knows how much water the stock water pump moves.

Jim...

On Dec 11, 2019, at 2:24 PM, Ron Frost via Groups.Io <rd.frost@...> wrote:

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw. 
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?


 Ron Perma Frost
 
 


On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:


Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Ron Frost
 

I agree with the pump portion of the unit, but now lets talk about the motor. But reducing the voltage by 50% you need to double the amperage to obtain the same power output. Unknown horse power requirement , so lets say the pump requires 1 horsepower to operate correctly. 1 HP = 745.5 watts of current. Watts equals volts times amps. So 745.5 watts divided 12 volts equals 62.125 amps. Now with 6 volts the amperage is 745.5 divided by 6 volts equals 124.25 amps. Or double the design  amperage draw. 
Will the motor windings carry this much current without over heating, and two can the generator supply this much current?


 Ron Perma Frost
 
 


On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 12:05:22 PM EST, Andy Farley <farleya1@...> wrote:


Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

Andy Farley
 

Toyota does not provide temperature ratings for this pump. That being said, pumps made of similar materials are generally rated at 220 degrees. Generally if a designed for a specific max temperature then the materials used would actually be capable of handling at least 50 percent higher. I'm guessing that this pump can handle water at 330 degrees. Obviously at 330 degrees the water is steam and the engine is overheated so I think that this pump should work. 

Re: 1951 super

John Stein
 

thanks for the info.Iwiil get a pic of the bracket later today.

Re: 6v / 12v water pump ... max temperature ?

dave p
 

Andy,  What is maximum temperature these pumps are designed to handle

Dave Perry           OldSchool Restorations   North Alabama   USA

Re: 1951 super

Jim Bollman
 

I have seen the HC stamp but would guess the 10 is 10:1 compression Quicksilver just like your HC since it has the Vitameter bracket still attached.

On Dec 10, 2019, at 8:03 PM, Steve Olinger <olinger@...> wrote:

Hi
       I also have a 51 supersports that has the vitameter injection. It has HC stamped there. What I can see on your engine looks like 010 maybe a rebuild with 010 under bearings or 010 overbore? I would love to see a photo of your bracket. Steve

Re: 1951 super

Steve Olinger
 

Hi
       I also have a 51 supersports that has the vitameter injection. It has HC stamped there. What I can see on your engine looks like 010 maybe a rebuild with 010 under bearings or 010 overbore? I would love to see a photo of your bracket. Steve

6v / 12v water pump

Andy Farley
 

Earlier this month I posted that I had developed a 12 volt DC water pump system for my 48 CC. There was some interest as to whether it would work running on 6 volts. What I am using is an inverter water pump from a 2004 to 2009 Prius. It puts out about 5 gallons per minute running on 12v and it's working well on my 12v 48 CC. I tested it using 6volts DC today and it works well, but the water flow is reduced as would be expected. It's probably about 2 to 3 gallons per minute on 6v. This might actually be enough to cool a Crosley engine. I'm not going to go back to 6v on my CC do do more testing but it might be worth someone else trying. If anyone would like more info I'd be happy to help.