Date   

Re: COBRA Block

parkhunter@...
 

Bruce, my practical knowledge begins and ends with my engine. But quoting from “The Mighty Tin” article linked above...

The 4 cylinder block was constructed out of about 125 steel stamping. The pieces were held together by press fit, spot welds or crimping before brazing. The block is then copper brazed in a specially constructed 60 foot long furnace at 2060 degree F in a neutral atmosphere. The hardness of the alloy steel was controlled by the speed of cooling. The finished block weighs an extremely light 14 pounds.

I would suspect that if you heated the block enough to melt the brazing (2060 degrees?!?), then all you’d have holding it together would be the aforementioned crimps and spotwelds. 


Some people - probably the Gorrells - have done cross sections with bandsaws and could tell you more about the internal construction. 


- Park


Re: COBRA Block

Bob H.
 

Or, at the very least, stop putting gas in it! 😉

-Bob 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 9:42 PM Robert Connearney via Groups.Io <rconnearney=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Why don't you turn it off?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Barry Smedley <BSmedley@...>
Date: 2/21/20 8:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Re: Raising the Body Off the Frame and Rolling It Over

 

Bruce that is awesome! Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow.


On Feb 21, 2020, at 6:38 PM, bruce.derenski via Groups.Io <bruce.derenski@...> wrote:

Good evening, Crosley Fans!

I'm the guy that posted about the CD Wagon electric conversion last month. I'm just now doing the grunt work that goes with any restoration, and I'm still many moons away from the sexy stuff of the actual conversion. This month's project is separating the frame and body and attacking the repair and preservation of the undercarriage. I know the traditional way of lifting a body off a frame involves half-drunk friends and metal oil drums, but all my friends are in rough shape, and I didn't want to lose any to cardiac arrest, so I thought through a different way.

Behold my patented lifting rig! After stripping everything off the car and removing the doors, I jacked under the front and rear axle to raise the car as far as I could, and placed it on sturdy jack stands. I cut two 2x6s and two 2x4s to 6ft, and used them to span across the door openings. The 2x6s went closest to the floor and were notched to clear the tunnel. The 2x4s go above them; the front one tucked under the dash and the rear one all the way up along the rear of the door opening. The 2x4 under the dash has a couple of notches to clear the two bumps on the underside of the dash. The front two boards are attached using 1/4" bolts through the door hinge holes. I had to drill holes in the door opening frame for the rear boards. I feel badly about that, but I'll weld-plug them later. These four horizontal boards bear the entire weight of the body, so it's important to attach them well. I cut two 2x6's in half to make the 4 vertical supports, but I didn't attach them yet. I bought three 1000lb trailer jacks from Harbor Freight  (about $25 each with the coupon and borrowed a fourth one off my jet ski trailer.  I raised one jack all the way up, then lowered it an inch and used it to position the lower end of each of the four vertical supports. The vertical supports were attached with a bunch of screws to all four horizontals, and the four jacks were lag screwed to the vertical supports. I lopped off the top of the verticals even with the roof of the car, and I added two more 2x4s to the top and bottom of the verticals on the PASSENGER SIDE ONLY, running from the front to the back of the car. And I added a couple of short lengths of 2x6 to the bottom of the vertical supports. These lengths have an arc cut in them, and are positioned so that they "catch" the car on this side when the jacks on this side are almost completely lowered.

Now the fun part. After I unbolted the body, I put concrete blocks under the four jacks and raised the body up 4", ensuring that I hadn't missed any bolts (I did). With the body clear of the frame and supported by the trailer jacks, I used my trusty rolling jack to support the axles while I removed the jack stands and lowered the frame. With the wheels off the car, the frame still rolls easily on the brake drums. I dragged the frame clear of the body with about 4" to spare between the top of the shock towers and the bottom of the floorboards. Now, the body is high in the air and the frame is out in the driveway.

I then used the trailer jacks one at a time to remove the blocks on the PASSENGER SIDE ONLY.  I lowered the passenger side as far as I could, removed the blocks then repositioned those blocks to the driver's side, raising it as far as I could. When the passenger side was completely lowered, it was caught and supported by those two curved pieces I mentioned. Now the car was tilted about 30 degrees, and I could lift the driver side without any further help from the trailer jacks. It rolled over the rest of the way on the arcs cut in the bottom ends of the 2x6 extensions, and came to rest on the previously-vertical-but-now-horizontal supports.  It is stabilized by the 8' long 2x4s that run from front to back on the passenger side.

I probably haven't done a great job explaining this, but the one thing I can make clear is this: It cost me a couple of afternoons and about $125 in parts, lumber and fasteners to save countless hours on my back under this car. I can do a far better job working upright, and I didn't have to say "Hold this" to my wife or any of my geriatric neighbors. The whole thing is reversible, so when it's time to put the body back on the frame, I can do it without drama.

Can I get an Amen?

Attachments:


Re: COBRA Block

Robert Connearney
 

Why don't you turn it off?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Barry Smedley <BSmedley@...>
Date: 2/21/20 8:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Re: Raising the Body Off the Frame and Rolling It Over

John Stein
 

 raised my super sports built a frame on top of a old hospital gurney .
works great. I love works in progress


Raising the Body Off the Frame and Rolling It Over

Bruce Derenski
 

Good evening, Crosley Fans!

I'm the guy that posted about the CD Wagon electric conversion last month. I'm just now doing the grunt work that goes with any restoration, and I'm still many moons away from the sexy stuff of the actual conversion. This month's project is separating the frame and body and attacking the repair and preservation of the undercarriage. I know the traditional way of lifting a body off a frame involves half-drunk friends and metal oil drums, but all my friends are in rough shape, and I didn't want to lose any to cardiac arrest, so I thought through a different way.

Behold my patented lifting rig! After stripping everything off the car and removing the doors, I jacked under the front and rear axle to raise the car as far as I could, and placed it on sturdy jack stands. I cut two 2x6s and two 2x4s to 6ft, and used them to span across the door openings. The 2x6s went closest to the floor and were notched to clear the tunnel. The 2x4s go above them; the front one tucked under the dash and the rear one all the way up along the rear of the door opening. The 2x4 under the dash has a couple of notches to clear the two bumps on the underside of the dash. The front two boards are attached using 1/4" bolts through the door hinge holes. I had to drill holes in the door opening frame for the rear boards. I feel badly about that, but I'll weld-plug them later. These four horizontal boards bear the entire weight of the body, so it's important to attach them well. I cut two 2x6's in half to make the 4 vertical supports, but I didn't attach them yet. I bought three 1000lb trailer jacks from Harbor Freight  (about $25 each with the coupon and borrowed a fourth one off my jet ski trailer.  I raised one jack all the way up, then lowered it an inch and used it to position the lower end of each of the four vertical supports. The vertical supports were attached with a bunch of screws to all four horizontals, and the four jacks were lag screwed to the vertical supports. I lopped off the top of the verticals even with the roof of the car, and I added two more 2x4s to the top and bottom of the verticals on the PASSENGER SIDE ONLY, running from the front to the back of the car. And I added a couple of short lengths of 2x6 to the bottom of the vertical supports. These lengths have an arc cut in them, and are positioned so that they "catch" the car on this side when the jacks on this side are almost completely lowered.

Now the fun part. After I unbolted the body, I put concrete blocks under the four jacks and raised the body up 4", ensuring that I hadn't missed any bolts (I did). With the body clear of the frame and supported by the trailer jacks, I used my trusty rolling jack to support the axles while I removed the jack stands and lowered the frame. With the wheels off the car, the frame still rolls easily on the brake drums. I dragged the frame clear of the body with about 4" to spare between the top of the shock towers and the bottom of the floorboards. Now, the body is high in the air and the frame is out in the driveway.

I then used the trailer jacks one at a time to remove the blocks on the PASSENGER SIDE ONLY.  I lowered the passenger side as far as I could, removed the blocks then repositioned those blocks to the driver's side, raising it as far as I could. When the passenger side was completely lowered, it was caught and supported by those two curved pieces I mentioned. Now the car was tilted about 30 degrees, and I could lift the driver side without any further help from the trailer jacks. It rolled over the rest of the way on the arcs cut in the bottom ends of the 2x6 extensions, and came to rest on the previously-vertical-but-now-horizontal supports.  It is stabilized by the 8' long 2x4s that run from front to back on the passenger side.

I probably haven't done a great job explaining this, but the one thing I can make clear is this: It cost me a couple of afternoons and about $125 in parts, lumber and fasteners to save countless hours on my back under this car. I can do a far better job working upright, and I didn't have to say "Hold this" to my wife or any of my geriatric neighbors. The whole thing is reversible, so when it's time to put the body back on the frame, I can do it without drama.

Can I get an Amen?


Re: COBRA Block

Bruce Derenski
 

Park, the photos are great. My early questions have to do with how the individual stamped pieces are arranged, and your photos show some good details of that. I'm really curious if a tin block can be heated and disassembled.


Re: COBRA Block

Barry Smedley
 

I have a running one sitting on a shelf in my garage, It smokes pretty bad.

 

Barry Smedley

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of parkhunter@...
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] COBRA Block

 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Re: COBRA Block

parkhunter@...
 

I have a running CoBra in my Crosley. Search Crosley CoBra on YouTube and you should find some videos. 


It’s pretty obvious looking at a CoBra that it is made out of individual stampings that have been assembled and brazed together. I’ve attached some detail photos of my engine from when I cleaned it up. My engine is galvanized, which is a trick they used later to address the corrosion and leakage problems.


I have a defunct tin block I’d be glad to give you, but I’m in Wisconsin and shipping would probably be prohibitive. The dead version of the engine is pretty common, so I bet you can find one free or cheap in Florida. 


- Park


Re: STD Piston Size

Barry Smedley
 

That is a cast iron block, not a tin. I like your car cover!

 

Barry Smedley

 

 

From: Crosley-Gang@groups.io [mailto:Crosley-Gang@groups.io] On Behalf Of nobadrivers
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:33 PM
To: Crosley-Gang@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] STD Piston Size

 

This is the engine I have in my 1947 Sedan.  This is not the tin engine correct?  I need a upper compression piston ring and an exhaust valve just to get it going again. 

Attachments:

This message contains confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. (English) Ce message contient des informations confidentielles destinées uniquement à l'usage du(des) destinataire(s) nommé(s) ci-dessus. Toute consultation, distribution, copie et utilisation du contenu de ce message est strictement prohibée. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, SVP avisez l'expéditeur par réponse immédiate et effacez le message original. (French)


Re: STD Piston Size

Butch
 

Not a tin block (COBRA), but it is a cast block (CIBA). The rings and the valves remain the same.

Butch

On 2/20/2020 3:33 PM, nobadrivers wrote:
This is the engine I have in my 1947 Sedan.  This is not the tin engine correct?  I need a upper compression piston ring and an exhaust valve just to get it going again.


Re: STD Piston Size

nobadrivers
 

This is the engine I have in my 1947 Sedan.  This is not the tin engine correct?  I need a upper compression piston ring and an exhaust valve just to get it going again. 


Re: STD Piston Size

Butch
 

No, those were the COBRA (tin) blocks. Same bore though, although some of those used shorter, 3 ring pistons.

Butch

On 2/20/2020 12:54 PM, Mike S wrote:
Were there any cast iron blocks in '47?


Re: STD Piston Size

L.E. Hardee
 

Ciba retrofits for leaking Cobras.  I believe pistons were the same size though.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 12:54 PM Mike S <miso7@...> wrote:
Were there any cast iron blocks in '47?


Re: STD Piston Size

Mike S
 

Were there any cast iron blocks in '47?


Re: STD Piston Size

nobadrivers
 

Thank you Butch!


Re: STD Piston Size

Butch
 

The cylinder bore is 2.500, the piston is approximately 2.496 or 2.497, at this moment, I neither recall nor have a reference.

Butch

On 2/20/2020 8:18 AM, nobadrivers wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the size of the standard size piston is for the 1947 cast iron block engine?


STD Piston Size

nobadrivers
 

Can anyone tell me what the size of the standard size piston is for the 1947 cast iron block engine?


Re: Valve clearance

Andy Farley
 

That's pretty much what I did today. I used the specs that Dave Edwards gave me. .004-.006 for intake and .007-.009 for exhaust and stayed on the loose side. I also put on a Braje cam cover. Should make it a little quieter. I think it will work out well. I'll fire it up tommorow so that it has time for the gasket sealer to cure. Thank  You all for your input. I love this little car.


Re: Valve clearance

Jim Bollman
 

Unless you're going for 100% original, an aluminum valve cover will quiet down the valve clatter a lot.

Jim...

On Feb 18, 2020, at 8:00 PM, Butch via Groups.Io <butch46988@...> wrote:

My general practice is, use the mid spec as my low limit and add 0.002 as my high limit. Loose valves are noisy, tight valves burn.

As negligent as many Crosley owners are about maintenance, error on the loose side. The increase in noise and the decrease in performance is negligible, in the overall scheme of Crosley.

Butch

On 2/18/2020 4:48 PM, Steve wrote:
While I like the idea of having them at spec, I am reminded of my Ford Pinto.  At 30,000 miles the dealer provided the recommended service and adjusted the valve clearance. At 39,000 I had burned valves and had to replace the head.  The next Ford mechanic I spoke with said, "Let 'em rattle."  Moral of the story, a little noise is better than no noise. I think I would err on the high side of the spec.  I'll let Barry, Butch or Dale be a higher authority on this 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "seb fontana via Groups.Io" <speedoo51@...>
Date: 2/18/20 3:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Crosley-Gang] Valve clearance

I lost a .015 shim once and it got noisy; while you at at it I would put them in spec.
_._,_.