PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE


Dave .
 

Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Dave N2OA
 

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA


On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Dave .
 

What diameter pipe?....


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Andre VanWyk
 

If you can, run a 4” for RF cable and a 2” for control. That way you have ample room for future cables. Electrical PVC conduit is best but most expensive. We use long radius bends. It makes pulling hardline on long runs and bends so much easier. Don’t forget to leave a pull rope or tape in the conduit for future additions.   Good luck with your project!
73
NJ0F


Dave N2OA
 

6" diameter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:22 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
What diameter pipe?....


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Dave .
 

WOW...that's a big pipe...I would be afraid I would get a gopher thinking that was a GREAT new condo...


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

6" diameter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:22 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
What diameter pipe?....


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Dave N2OA
 

One end is going into a sealed box up against the house and the other end I'm closing off with some screen to allow air. I learned the hard way, leave lots of room for growth. Also you will enjoy that extra space when you try to get rigid cable through the pipe.

I'm already looking at adding some additional control cables for RF relays and switching and the tower's only been up for 6 months.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:38 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
WOW...that's a big pipe...I would be afraid I would get a gopher thinking that was a GREAT new condo...


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

6" diameter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:22 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
What diameter pipe?....


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Dennis Klipa
 

I agree, nothing less than 6" diameter.

Best Regards,
Dennis, N8ERF

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Joe K2UF
 

Hi Dave,
 
I used 4 inch to two towers.  I have 8 bury flex coax and 8 rotor control cable runs from house to first tower (about 50 feet underground) the 4 of the coax runs and four of the control cables continue to the second tower about another 80 feet underground.  A couple of right angle turns and another couple of shallow turns.  I always leave a run of heavy dacron rope in the conduit to pull in and out any wires.  I use a lot of slippery wire goop.
 
I wish I would have used a larger pipe maybe even up to 10 inches.  Not sure about hard line.  Never used it but I think it is a lot stiffer than the bury flex.  I think I would use as large a pipe as I could reasonably install.
 
Good luck es 73
 
Joe K2UF


From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io [mailto:CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave .
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 7:47 AM
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


k4cvl
 

With those runs of hardline, I would run 6” and be sure to run a messenger rope in the pipe to pull other cables through should you need to.   My two cents… - M

 

From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io [mailto:CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io] On Behalf Of Joe K2UF
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 9:47 AM
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

 

Hi Dave,

 

I used 4 inch to two towers.  I have 8 bury flex coax and 8 rotor control cable runs from house to first tower (about 50 feet underground) the 4 of the coax runs and four of the control cables continue to the second tower about another 80 feet underground.  A couple of right angle turns and another couple of shallow turns.  I always leave a run of heavy dacron rope in the conduit to pull in and out any wires.  I use a lot of slippery wire goop.

 

I wish I would have used a larger pipe maybe even up to 10 inches.  Not sure about hard line.  Never used it but I think it is a lot stiffer than the bury flex.  I think I would use as large a pipe as I could reasonably install.

 

Good luck es 73

 

Joe K2UF

 


From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io [mailto:CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave .
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 7:47 AM
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Richard &#92;(Rick&#92;) Karlquist &#92;(N6RK&#92;)
 

I would give an alternate point of view.
For future proofing, instead of installing
one gigantic conduit, install multiple smaller
ones, with some of them designated "spares".
What I have found is that it is frequently
difficult to pull a new wire though a conduit
already occupied by existing wires, no matter
how big the conduit is. Even if I used massive
amounts of wire grease. This is because the
pull tape will get tangled up with the existing
wires. Otherwise, I am looking at pulling the
entire existing bundle out of the conduit and
then pulling in a new bundle combining the old
and new cables.

YMMV

73
Rick N6RK

On 6/19/2021 7:03 AM, Dennis Klipa wrote:
I agree, nothing less than 6" diameter.
Best Regards,
Dennis, N8ERF
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@... <mailto:ktx85@...>> wrote:
Hello..
I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the
tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..
I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...
So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that
allows easy installation and future service ?


Grant Saviers
 

With hardline it is better to use conduit since the bends are "sweeps" rather than "elbows". I use the max radius sweeps for my big tower three 3" conduits, minimum 24" for 2", 36" for 3". Another reason is conduit is schedule 40 PVC which is much stronger than drain pipes. I always glue all sections at once with the goal of watertight. A shop vac and plastic bag pull the conduit measuring tape which then pulls the 5/8" pull tape thru. I've learned to measure and not trust calculations as one other tower ended with coax having only 12" of tail.

I segregated the runs in 3x 3" PVC conduit. All control cables (8 rotators, 3 stack match, 2x ethernet, WX station, 3x control) in #1. 2x LDF5 + 1x LDF4 in #2, 3x LDF4 + 1x LDF5 in #3. (LDF5 for 10/15/20 & LDF4 for 40/80, met the goal <1db loss every band amp to yagi feedpoint choke). All cables per conduit pulled at once, lots of lube, commercial flat pull tape. It takes a big team to feed & pull multiple hardlines properly, to not exceed the minimum bend radius or strip some insulation. Be sure to have chafe collars at entry and exit screwed onto the hubs. Cut PVC edges are sharp.

Trenches less than 16" width are hard to work in, and then there is enough room for multiple conduits. Glue up the full length and drop it into the trench as you go. 3" conduit is a stock item at HD (scarce right now) and big sweeps seem to come and go, so a supply house will have them.

I've not had much success with pull lines in conduits with cables installed. Had to pull out the old and run all plus additions again. Even with flat commercial pull tape, the bundle wants to spiral and wrap everything together. So in the long run a spare empty conduit or spare coax + control cables are a better plan IMO.

Earlier towers had a 2" + 3" conduit, split coax and controls. Wish I had a second spare 3" run for each.

In addition, there is no such thing as too large a junction box, especially for hardline. The 3 x 3" end up in an office 30 x 36 x 18" steel office supplies cabinet at the shack end. Painted for WX protection. Cheap and amzzingly waterproof in the welded assembled version. Barely large enough. The tower end is a 4x6x8ft shed. Stuff bronze wool around the coax at the conduit ends to keep bugs and critters out, some mice liked living in mine.

If bigger than 3" is what is wanted, look for gasketed SDR35 drain pipe at supply houses.

Grant KZ1W

On 6/19/2021 04:46, Dave . wrote:
Hello..
I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..
I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...
So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?


Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ
 

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 11:08 AM, Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist \(N6RK\) wrote:
For future proofing, instead of installing
one gigantic conduit, install multiple smaller
ones,

Hi Rick, 
Agree, seems like if more than 2/3 cables in a pipe and they hang up on each other.  Running 2 or 3  large (3 inch) PVC pipes with 2 cables plus a pull line in each seems like a good solution.  


Al / NN4ZZ



Rory Sena
 

Another way is like others have said before use multiple conduits and if you can buy them in 20 foot sticks, you can also get a hot box to soften the conduit and make your own sweeps which will be a lot smoother. CED is one supplier here on the west coast I use. 

Post pictures when you start your project.

73
Rory-N6OIL


Charlie Hansen
 

I agree 100% what Rick says below. Unless the initial install of
wires/cables lay
perfectly flat any new cabling is going to get tangled up in there and
you'll have a
mess inside the tube to deal with.

Charlie, N0TT

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:08:24 -0700 "Richard &#92;(Rick&#92;) Karlquist
&#92;(N6RK&#92;)" <richard@...> writes:

I would give an alternate point of view.
For future proofing, instead of installing
one gigantic conduit, install multiple smaller
ones, with some of them designated "spares".
What I have found is that it is frequently
difficult to pull a new wire though a conduit
already occupied by existing wires, no matter
how big the conduit is. Even if I used massive
amounts of wire grease. This is because the
pull tape will get tangled up with the existing
wires. Otherwise, I am looking at pulling the
entire existing bundle out of the conduit and
then pulling in a new bundle combining the old
and new cables.

YMMV

73
Rick N6RK

On 6/19/2021 7:03 AM, Dennis Klipa wrote:
I agree, nothing less than 6" diameter.

Best Regards,
Dennis, N8ERF

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...
<mailto:ktx85@...>> wrote:

Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the
tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the
best..

I'm planning on running 4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ? What is the best size
that
allows easy installation and future service ?






Charlie Hansen
 


I would suggest venting BOTH ends to allow air flow through the pipe.  That will allow
the pipe to actually dry out.  It works...I've done that with the 200 ft of 4" PVC I use.
 
BTW do yourself a favor and don't use large schedule-20 PVC.  Unless it is
surrounded by equal pressure (such as washed-in sand), it is guaranteed to
deform, maybe even collapse,  over time.
 
Charlie, N0TT
 
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:59:53 -0400 "Dave N2OA" <kdcarlso@...> writes:

One end is going into a sealed box up against the house and the other end I'm closing off with some screen to allow air. I learned the hard way, leave lots of room for growth. Also you will enjoy that extra space when you try to get rigid cable through the pipe.

I'm already looking at adding some additional control cables for RF relays and switching and the tower's only been up for 6 months.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:38 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
WOW...that's a big pipe...I would be afraid I would get a gopher thinking that was a GREAT new condo...


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:31 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

6" diameter. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:22 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
What diameter pipe?....


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...>
Date: 6/19/21 8:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] PVC UNDERGROUND..SLEEVE

I ran two 6" pieces of drainage pipe, without the holes. I drilled some of my own holes along the bottom at the lowest point on the run because there will be water. 

I'm currently running 6 pieces of 1/2 heliax, rotor cable, and the tower control cable through those and there's a little room for growth. All bends used 45 deg. adapters and I was able to push each piece of cable through the 50' run without using a pull line. I have two lines in there though in case I want to pull something else less rigid.  

Dave
N2OA

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:46 AM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
Hello..

I'm planning on running a pvc sleeve from the house to the tower...trying to figure the size of pipe that would be the best..

I'm planning on running  4 or 5 .....1/2 hardline...

So...2 inch.....3 inch ...4 inch ?   What is the best size that allows easy installation and future service ?