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US TOWER TIP OVER
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Dave .
Hello all
How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? |
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Herschel Hall
HDX-555, with a PRO -96 Mosley & a 5 ele cushcraft 6 m beam. Have a NN4ZZ monster tilt plate on PRO-96, Works great, still need 2 people one for winch &one to encourage PRO-96 to lay flat. If it is laid down for a long time, then I block up the tower to take load off of erection fixture cable. WA9KIA On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:02 PM Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote: Hello all |
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Loyd
Hello fellow operators.
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Good Afternoon. I use a Modified TRX-100 tilt mechanism with 8500 lb capacity boat hoist and Homebrew cable spool drum. I can tilt over my U S Tower HDX 589MPL with a 4 element 40 meter coil loaded yagi and a HB 3 element 20 meter yagi 10 feet above the big 40 meter yagi. I have operated this with 2 each Nn4zz Tilt Plates and the tower retracted to nest at 55 feet. A lot of weight snd a lot of lever arm. My Davit pole has been changed from the TRX-80 davit. I tried it with the original davit and realized I was pushing the limit. I replaced the pulleys sheaves on the tower to a US Tower HDX 5106 snatch block assembly. Probably my set up not for the faint of heart! Been working great for two years. I can stand on the ground and both the 40 meter yagi and the. 20 meter yagi are chest level. Note of caution!! U S Tower advised tilting ones tower over with no antenna installed at the top of their tower. I called their engineering 3-4 years ago. These towers are great but one can be seriously injured or killed if one doesn’t follow protocol as suggested by the manufacture. My experience in life. Very heavy oil field equipment and construction equipment and I’ve owned and or dealt with large cranes last 40 years. I felt confident in what I did plus I consulted with some mechanical engineers. After I ran my figures. I do not endorse anyone doing what I have been successful with. My 57 cents worth of experience. Good luck. 73 Loyd WB4BMQ On Jan 25, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Dave . <ktx85@...> wrote:
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Doc
Dave: I have an MA40 with the MARB tilt base holding up a 3 element steppir and a 2/440 vertical.. I can lower the tower, tilt over the tower and work on the beam at ground level without anyone helping. I can also remove and replace the entire antenna by myself when it's tilted down. The rotor is at the base, so working on it is easy. I have had this configuration for over 10 years and its great. The only disadvantage is the tower is only 40 ft. One could go with the 56 foot version if height is a big issue. Ken WB6MMV On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:09 PM Terrence Redding, Ph.D. via groups.io <tredding=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Rory Sena
I made my own tilt plate for my hexbeam on a 40ft tubular mast.  On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:09 PM Terrence Redding, Ph.D. via groups.io <tredding=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Randy Simpson
HDX 555, T2X, 10 foot DX Eng mast and thrust bearing, and SteppIR Urbanbeam. Tower was a “free” tower. Complete disassembly restoration. Base was so old it didn’t have the tilt reaction plates. Had to have plates welded to base.
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Ran add in all the ham web sites looking for a TRX tilt mechanism. Got a hit from a gentleman in Fort Wayne. It wasn’t a US Towers unit but with my access to a machine shop I made it work. The whole assembly went up two days ago. No assistance everything worked great. I did note deflection in the angled hoist support while tilting up until 45 degrees as weight was transferring to the base. Urbanbeam is easy to handle alone. First use netted 3 new FT8 DXCC contacts. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/25/21 at 3:01 PM, Dave . wrote:
Hello all How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? 
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Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist \(N6RK\)
On 1/25/2021 12:27 PM, Loyd wrote:
Note of caution!!Thanks for posting this "advice" from UST. It caused an epiphany for me: When I first got my HDX-5106, I was perplexed by the inadequate tilt winch that UST supplied with the TRX-100HD tilt fixture. Especially when the crank up winch seemed to follow the opposite philosophy: it seemed way over designed to me. Not complaining, just commenting. The tilt winch was a Fulton 2550. I soon upgraded to a FW3000 worm gear winch. That was considerably better, but still overheated, and eventually failed, thankfully not catastrophically. Then (following W4ABC's excellent advice) I got a 6500 lb boat hoist (you can read about it on n6rk.com). That has been in use for almost 10 years now. It is IMHO, "merely adequate" for the job. It heats up considerably, which is due to the "fake" worm gear scheme using a spur gear rather than a hypoid gear like in a car differential. Going back to the OEM 2550 winch, how could UST possibly justify such a joke of a winch? NOW I GET IT: UST has the weasel words about not having any load on the tower when using it. Their legal counsel would be proud. I once was with a field day group that had a UST tower trailer. The tilt winch for that was also a joke. We had do some finagling around to get the tower up. I don't remember exactly what we did to help the winch. Rick N6RK |
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Loyd
Rick
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I concur on what you are saying. I too can not believe the K2500. At first I even hired a guy to crank my tower up and down by hand. The second time on a Hot , Humid, Alabama Day ............The Rascal quit and said don’t call me! My 8500 lb boat hoist seems to do a good job. Last summer I raised and lowered the tower about 12 times in 2-3 hours and the hoist got hot at the worm gear. I kept pumping fresh grease in the fittings and kept a watch on it. WB4BMQ On Jan 26, 2021, at 12:51 PM, Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist \(N6RK\) <richard@...> wrote: |
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I have a UST HDX555 with the HD raising fixture and the Fulton 3000 worm gear winch driven by the drill attachment that's been written about widely. I use a Tiltplate for a SteppIR 18E 5' above the top of the tower, and an Innovantena 7-el 6M beam 5-6' above that. Lowering and raising the tower to work on the antennas or rotor or just maintaining the tower is simple.
I found that the worm gear winch got very hot under load and needed to rest to cool down at times. I followed N6RK's excellent plans, as Rick noted above. I also used a 6500 lb flat plate winch with 1 HP motor and now have a properly motorized tilting tower. I did not do an engineering analysis, but based on Rick's use of the system on a tower that probably weighs at lease 2-3 times mine I felt that I was OK. No issues at all (to date), it's an excellent thing to do unless you enjoy hand cranking. 73, Lou W0FK |
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Dave .
Would you further explain..DEFLECTION in the angled hoist support....please
-------- Original message --------
From: Randy Simpson <ab9vj@...>
Date: 1/26/21 7:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER
HDX 555, T2X, 10 foot DX Eng mast and thrust bearing, and SteppIR Urbanbeam. Tower was a “free” tower. Complete disassembly restoration. Base was so old it didn’t have the tilt reaction plates. Had to have plates welded to base.
Ran add in all the ham web sites looking for a TRX tilt mechanism. Got a hit from a gentleman in Fort Wayne. It wasn’t a US Towers unit but with my access to a machine shop I made it work. The whole assembly went up two days ago. No assistance everything worked great. I did note deflection in the angled hoist support while tilting up until 45 degrees as weight was transferring to the base. Urbanbeam is easy to handle alone. First use netted 3 new FT8 DXCC contacts. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/25/21 at 3:01 PM, Dave . wrote: Hello all How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? |
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Dino Darling
Just a reminder of the kind of forces on a tilt over device...
Dino - KX6D
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> on behalf of Dave . via groups.io <ktx85@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 4:07:39 PM To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER Would you further explain..DEFLECTION in the angled hoist support....please
-------- Original message --------
From: Randy Simpson <ab9vj@...>
Date: 1/26/21 7:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER
HDX 555, T2X, 10 foot DX Eng mast and thrust bearing, and SteppIR Urbanbeam. Tower was a “free” tower. Complete disassembly restoration. Base was so old it didn’t have the tilt reaction plates. Had to have plates welded to base.
Ran add in all the ham web sites looking for a TRX tilt mechanism. Got a hit from a gentleman in Fort Wayne. It wasn’t a US Towers unit but with my access to a machine shop I made it work. The whole assembly went up two days ago. No assistance everything worked great. I did note deflection in the angled hoist support while tilting up until 45 degrees as weight was transferring to the base. Urbanbeam is easy to handle alone. First use netted 3 new FT8 DXCC contacts. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/25/21 at 3:01 PM, Dave . wrote: Hello all How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? |
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Randy Simpson
I believe it is a 6” X 2” steel tube. In the area between the through bolt that attaches the reaction poles and the pulley at the top, I observed some bending of the tube toward the tower. Not a great deal but it was discernibly. Maybe 1/4” over the span.
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It didn’t exceed the modulus of elasticity. It returned to the original position as the load decreased. This unit I’m using is not as robust as the US Tower product. But this tower is lightly loaded. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/26/21 at 7:07 PM, Dave . wrote:
Would you further explain..DEFLECTION in the angled hoist support....please -------- Original message -------- From: Randy Simpson <ab9vj@...> Date: 1/26/21 7:08 AM (GMT-06:00) To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER HDX 555, T2X, 10 foot DX Eng mast and thrust bearing, and SteppIR Urbanbeam. Tower was a “free” tower. Complete disassembly restoration. Base was so old it didn’t have the tilt reaction plates. Had to have plates welded to base. Ran add in all the ham web sites looking for a TRX tilt mechanism. Got a hit from a gentleman in Fort Wayne. It wasn’t a US Towers unit but with my access to a machine shop I made it work. The whole assembly went up two days ago. No assistance everything worked great. I did note deflection in the angled hoist support while tilting up until 45 degrees as weight was transferring to the base. Urbanbeam is easy to handle alone. First use netted 3 new FT8 DXCC contacts. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/25/21 at 3:01 PM, Dave . wrote: Hello all How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? |
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Dave .
Looks like that failed do to a poor weld ..
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-------- Original message --------
From: Dino Darling <dino@...>
Date: 1/26/21 7:48 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER
Just a reminder of the kind of forces on a tilt over device...
Dino - KX6D
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> on behalf of Dave . via groups.io <ktx85@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 4:07:39 PM To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER Would you further explain..DEFLECTION in the angled hoist support....please
-------- Original message --------
From: Randy Simpson <ab9vj@...>
Date: 1/26/21 7:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER
HDX 555, T2X, 10 foot DX Eng mast and thrust bearing, and SteppIR Urbanbeam. Tower was a “free” tower. Complete disassembly restoration. Base was so old it didn’t have the tilt reaction plates. Had to have plates welded to base.
Ran add in all the ham web sites looking for a TRX tilt mechanism. Got a hit from a gentleman in Fort Wayne. It wasn’t a US Towers unit but with my access to a machine shop I made it work. The whole assembly went up two days ago. No assistance everything worked great. I did note deflection in the angled hoist support while tilting up until 45 degrees as weight was transferring to the base. Urbanbeam is easy to handle alone. First use netted 3 new FT8 DXCC contacts. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/25/21 at 3:01 PM, Dave . wrote: Hello all How many of you out there are using the tip over assembly when working on your antenna or tower....what tower...with what antennas on board...pros and cons? Good luck or bad luck ? Changes you made for things to be better ? Bad things that happened ? |
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Loyd
Good photos.
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That’s two of the fixtures I’ve seen like that. The other was a on a UST HDX589 that was overloaded with antennas. Those ears really needed modifying. My tower base has been modified to prevent this from happening. As stated in a previous post one needs to be aware of his limitations. Dino thank you for the photos. WB4BMQ On Jan 26, 2021, at 7:48 PM, Dino Darling <dino@...> wrote:
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Ron K5MM
I’ve seen very similar damage when towers were extended while lowered.
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K5MM On Jan 26, 2021, at 8:33 PM, Loyd via groups.io <Richeylh@...> wrote:
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Dennis Klipa
These pictures are scary. I have the HDX-572 MPL with the US Tower raising fixture. The tower sports a DB36, Orion 2800 rotor, 20' of 1/4" wall steel mast, two meter beam and dual band vertical. I am always on edge (read scared s****) when I tilt the tower over and always rest the tower on a purpose built welded support stand before working on the system. Before I put up the tower I wanted to know if the lift cable could handle this load, so I did a torque analysis on the system. I am a scientist but not an engineer and certainly not a professional engineer so I will not publish my calculations. If you have any concerns about your loads you should consult an appropriate engineer, which I did after doing my calculations. Best Regards, Dennis, N8ERF On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, 8:48 PM Dino Darling <dino@...> wrote:
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Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist \(N6RK\)
On 1/26/2021 6:45 PM, Ron wrote:
I’ve seen very similar damage when towers were extended while lowered.Just to clarify, UST specifically recommends extending towers while lowered in order to install/uninstall rotors ... but cautions that the lowest section must be supported by letting it rest on timbers on the ground. My HDX-5106 has to be extended to a length of 50 feet or so to do rotor work. I have done this several times without problems. Because I use a K7NV prop pitch rotor, there isn't much rotor maintenance involved :-) It should be obvious that the raising fixture is not capable of supporting the tower when extended. I am amazed that anyone would try this. Rick N6RK |
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Randy Simpson
Will working on my HDX555 it is always resting on a timber supported by blocks. This support has to be moved depending on how high the mast has to be off the ground.
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To access the rotator support I’m able to just manually pull the top section out by hand. Do my work then carefully slide it back in making sure the cable is still routed correctly. If I ever decided to add any significant weight to this tower I would probably invest in the UST tilt mechanism. My coax has to run in conduit for 140 feet. This forced LMR 400 and the heavy duty rotator cable (two of the wires have to be #14 to reduce voltage drop). The feed line is run in a separate 3” conduit. The rotator cable and the 12 conductor cable is in a 2” conduit. Because of clearance from neighbors and my house the Urbanbeam was my choice. Since the feed line run is so long VHF/UHF would require even better feed line so I’m relegated to a fairly lightweight system. Sent using the mobile mail app On 1/27/21 at 12:14 AM, Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist \(N6RK\) wrote:
On 1/26/2021 6:45 PM, Ron wrote: I’ve seen very similar damage when towers were extended while lowered.Just to clarify, UST specifically recommends extending towers while lowered in order to install/uninstall rotors ... but cautions that the lowest section must be supported by letting it rest on timbers on the ground. My HDX-5106 has to be extended to a length of 50 feet or so to do rotor work. I have done this several times without problems. Because I use a K7NV prop pitch rotor, there isn't much rotor maintenance involved :-) It should be obvious that the raising fixture is not capable of supporting the tower when extended. I am amazed that anyone would try this. Rick N6RK |
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RULON PASSEY
I have a DB42 SteppIR and have had great success with Harbor Freight winch to fold over the tower. (see disclaimer on my QRZ page). Maybe you could see some things that I have used that might help. Go to my QRZ page type in my call W7QR. I have put plenty
of pictures to help explain what I did.
By the way, some are using a drill to raise and lower their tower. This is very risky and can cause great harm. I suggest no one use this method. You could lose an arm, fingers or even an eye. Just don't do it.
Good luck and 73,
Rulon
W7QR
Sent from Outlook From: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> on behalf of Lou Laderman W0FK <lladerman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 12:09 PM To: CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io <CrankupTiltoverTowers@groups.io> Subject: Re: [CrankupTiltoverTowers] US TOWER TIP OVER I have a UST HDX555 with the HD raising fixture and the Fulton
3000 worm gear winch driven by the drill attachment that's been written about widely. I use a Tiltplate for a SteppIR 18E 5' above the top of the tower, and an Innovantena 7-el 6M beam 5-6' above that. Lowering and raising the tower to work on the antennas
or rotor or just maintaining the tower is simple.
I found that the worm gear winch got very hot under load and needed to rest to cool down at times. I followed N6RK's excellent plans, as Rick noted above. I also used a 6500 lb flat plate winch with 1 HP motor and now have a properly motorized tilting tower. I did not do an engineering analysis, but based on Rick's use of the system on a tower that probably weighs at lease 2-3 times mine I felt that I was OK. No issues at all (to date), it's an excellent thing to do unless you enjoy hand cranking. 73, Lou W0FK |
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